Presumably Alkenstar is also a nation where divine and arcane magic doesn't work. Which limits adventures in Alkenstar and stretches the suspension of disbelief of the absurdly priced Alkenstarrian exports of rare mundane explosives.
Guns can be added without the "eww guns, keep them away!" system that they are trying to rig in with them.Ugh.
This discussion brings up some ugly situations and clunky workarounds just to get gunpowder and guns into the world. I'm sorry it had to happen to Golarian.
Did anyone ask what guns add to the world? Was there some story Paizo wanted to tell that just had to include guns?
My own gunpowder fix is really just a way to explain high prices and limited diffusion. It suits me better than Jacobs' method, but I'm not against his idea. I just prefer my own.
In my ongoing Ravenloft campaign, I have ruled that a cantrip is involved in making gunwpowder. This tends to drive up the cost, as Ravenloft (at least my version) is a relatively low magic setting. Prices are lower than 'official' listed prices. Wars are uncommon, so the stimulus of military competetion is lower. Travel can be problematic, and some regions are very much isolated, so diffusion is slower than one might expect. Prices of powder, shot, and guns are lower in those regions with the right mix of resources, physical infrastructure and technical/magical know-how. Prices are higher in other regions.
That set up helps me to justify an exaggerated difference in effective tech levels among small countries on the same continent, a difference more more marked than what you'd generally find in Early Modern Europe (where there certainly was a tech gap).
Back when I ran Birthright, I assumed that gunpowder was a completely mundane substance, with no magic required. It's just that the technology was immature; think pot de fer, not field artillery. Fireworks were known, if rare. Further development was possible in play, though this would have taken years of game time.
Presumably Alkenstar is also a nation where divine and arcane magic doesn't work. Which limits adventures in Alkenstar and stretches the suspension of disbelief of the absurdly priced Alkenstarrian exports of rare mundane explosives.
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secret of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
By the way, James Jacob, if you're reading this and my previous post, and decide to use this explanation in any book, I don't need any fee, but would appreciate an honourable mention! ;)
Hmm...I will however grant that adventures in Alkenstar would tend to be difficult, since it's a magic-dead-zone...
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
No, it really doesn't explain how a mundane chemical compound was only ever deciphered in one place on an entire world and never figured out anywhere else.
From what I've seen, guns only seem to be prevalent in ONE nation in Golarion. That already seems to suggest that the KNOWLEDGE of how to make gunpowder is rare (even if the ingredients are cheap, and as mentioned before, we don't even know whether sulfur and saltpetre can be cheaply refined in Glarion EVEN IF wannabe gunpowder-smiths knew to use them).
Moreover, since guns are the only edge that nation has, they'd likely keep it a closely guarded secret, ESPECIALLY if it can actually be rather cheaply made. Heck, they'd probably jack the price up just to create the illusion that the components are more expensive than they really are so that the people smart enough to even begin reverse-engineering gunpowder would find it more profitable and worth their while to learn magic instead. That is, if Alkenstar is the only nation in Golarion that has the secret of making gunpowder, and it is the only thing that gives their kingdom an edge in a world where everyone but them has magic, then it MAKES SENSE for them to guard that knowledge as a top-level national secret. And THAT could be why gunpowder is so expensive. Because the national defence of the one nation that knows how to make it hinges on it remaining secret.
I wonder if surface deposits of sulfur and good quality nitrates are common in parts of the Mana Wastes, put relatively less common elsewhere?
Golarion is earthlike, but it's isn't Earth. There is some fantastic geography. Fantastic geology, as well?
Creative Director
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To bring a favorite TV show in to the discussion—on an episode of "Mythbusters" where they were trying to duplicate Captain Kirk's home-made cannon he used to kill the gorn, they started by trying to make their own gunpowder. It wasn't easy. Took them a LOT of tries to get it right (and remember, these guys and gals are experts in this type of thing), and even then their best results were actually not good enough to really produce gunpowder that could really work all that well.I'm afraid I have to question the bolded part. What gives you the impression that "these guys and gals are experts in this type of thing"?
Please correct me if I'm wrong. By and large the Mythbusters crew are film grads with special effects experience. There is exactly one science degree in the bunch -- Grant's BS in electrical Engineering. Nobody has any formal education in chemistry or explosives.Look, I love the Mythbusters, but don't make the mistake of thinking that they're experts at anything other than making things look cool. They're not scientists.
They're not scientists. But they've been doing their job (which more or less amounts to "building things") for years. That makes them experts.
No, it really doesn't explain how a simple chemical compound was only ever deciphered in one place on an entire world and never figured out anywhere else.
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
I'm pretty sure that, in the offical background, Alkenstar is not the only place that has made the stuff. Tien Xia and maybe Vudra, too? I'd have to look it up.
Alkenstar might be the only place with nitrocellulose, though. Gun cotton is mentioned in the big equipment book, in the revolver description.
They're not scientists. But they've been doing their job (which more or less amounts to "building things") for years. That makes them experts.
I would imagine they've got some practical experience with pyrotechnics, being special effects dudes.
No, it really doesn't explain how a mundane chemical compound was only ever deciphered in one place on an entire world and never figured out anywhere else.
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
Nessessity is the mother of invention. Who need gun powder when the Wizard is blowing something to hell with fireballs. If you have magic ready at hand or on the cheap , whos going to bother researching or even think to research stuff like that.
No, it really doesn't explain how a simple chemical compound was only ever deciphered in one place on an entire world and never figured out anywhere else.
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
As mentioned before: lack of economic or practical incentive. People smart enough to even begin to try often find it more worth their while studying magic. Furthermore, trying to reverse-engineer a volatile substance is inherently hazardous. No other kingdom is going to be interested in even trying when magic exists as a readily-available alternative.
Edit: Sorta ninjaed by Tagion, but kudos to a man who knows exactly the angle I'm coming from! =)
They're not scientists. But they've been doing their job (which more or less amounts to "building things") for years. That makes them experts.To bring a favorite TV show in to the discussion—on an episode of "Mythbusters" where they were trying to duplicate Captain Kirk's home-made cannon he used to kill the gorn, they started by trying to make their own gunpowder. It wasn't easy. Took them a LOT of tries to get it right (and remember, these guys and gals are experts in this type of thing), and even then their best results were actually not good enough to really produce gunpowder that could really work all that well.I'm afraid I have to question the bolded part. What gives you the impression that "these guys and gals are experts in this type of thing"?
Please correct me if I'm wrong. By and large the Mythbusters crew are film grads with special effects experience. There is exactly one science degree in the bunch -- Grant's BS in electrical Engineering. Nobody has any formal education in chemistry or explosives.Look, I love the Mythbusters, but don't make the mistake of thinking that they're experts at anything other than making things look cool. They're not scientists.
30 years of blowing up things does not a chemistry degree make.
My first thought was: Aren't your players already doing that with spells? All of those effects can be more cheaply replicated with the right scroll.No actually. I think it's a combination of not many people I play with do a lot of high magic. We also rarely play high level. Plus, when I have encountered players that were eager to just spam the world with their crafting/magic strategies, I just tended to avoid playing with them in the future.
I wasn't even talking about high level. If a barrel of gunpowder is a 5d6 explosion, that's a fireball cast at 5th level. Many 3rd level spells can do interesting things (like cause cave-ins, etc) if used creatively.
Nessessity is the mother of invention. Who need gun powder when the Wizard is blowing something to hell with fireballs. If you have magic ready at hand or on the cheap , whos going to bother researching or even think to research stuff like that.No, it really doesn't explain how a mundane chemical compound was only ever deciphered in one place on an entire world and never figured out anywhere else.
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
Then who, exactly, is paying out the ear for it? Inside Alkenstar, they know the secret - it is mundane. Outside Alkenstar, who cares? The whole set up just doesn't mesh logically.
Presumably Alkenstar is also a nation where divine and arcane magic doesn't work. Which limits adventures in Alkenstar and stretches the suspension of disbelief of the absurdly priced Alkenstarrian exports of rare mundane explosives.Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
By the way, James Jacob, if you're reading this and my previous post, and decide to use this explanation in any book, I don't need any fee, but would appreciate an honourable mention! ;)
Hmm...I will however grant that adventures in Alkenstar would tend to be difficult, since it's a magic-dead-zone...
Ha, I've already tried to hypnotize him into using MY idea, Fiddler's Green.
:)
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
OBEY, JACOBS, OBEY
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As mentioned before: lack of economic or practical incentive. People smart enough to even begin to try often find it more worth their while studying magic. Furthermore, trying to reverse-engineer a volatile substance is inherently hazardous. No other kingdom is going to be interested in even trying when magic exists as a readily-available alternative.No, it really doesn't explain how a simple chemical compound was only ever deciphered in one place on an entire world and never figured out anywhere else.
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
Who the hell is talking about reverse engineering gun powder? Certainly not me. I'm talking about one of the alchemically inclined classes just making it. It's exactly THREE substances. Out of the UNTOLD number of mages and alchemists, not one of them ever noticed "hey, if I mix these together like this, I get a substance that produces a large, controlled explosion?"
Who the hell is talking about reverse engineering gun powder? Certainly not me. I'm talking about one of the alchemically inclined classes just making it. It's exactly THREE substances. Out of the UNTOLD number of mages and alchemists, not one of them ever noticed "hey, if I mix these together like this, I get a substance that produces a large, controlled explosion?"As mentioned before: lack of economic or practical incentive. People smart enough to even begin to try often find it more worth their while studying magic. Furthermore, trying to reverse-engineer a volatile substance is inherently hazardous. No other kingdom is going to be interested in even trying when magic exists as a readily-available alternative.No, it really doesn't explain how a simple chemical compound was only ever deciphered in one place on an entire world and never figured out anywhere else.
Actually, the fact that it can't be magically transported out of Alkenstar should make it even more valuable. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, it would also reinforce how the secrets of gunpowder is so well-guarded by Alkenstar-it can't be magically pilfered.
The reverse-engineering only covers one aspect of the process. The main thrust of the argument is that other societies simply lack the need or desire to want to discover it. AND by artifically ramping up the price, Alkenstar creates the illusion that gunpowder is a more complex substanc than it really is.
30 years of blowing up things does not a chemistry degree make.They're not scientists. But they've been doing their job (which more or less amounts to "building things") for years. That makes them experts.To bring a favorite TV show in to the discussion—on an episode of "Mythbusters" where they were trying to duplicate Captain Kirk's home-made cannon he used to kill the gorn, they started by trying to make their own gunpowder. It wasn't easy. Took them a LOT of tries to get it right (and remember, these guys and gals are experts in this type of thing), and even then their best results were actually not good enough to really produce gunpowder that could really work all that well.I'm afraid I have to question the bolded part. What gives you the impression that "these guys and gals are experts in this type of thing"?
Please correct me if I'm wrong. By and large the Mythbusters crew are film grads with special effects experience. There is exactly one science degree in the bunch -- Grant's BS in electrical Engineering. Nobody has any formal education in chemistry or explosives.Look, I love the Mythbusters, but don't make the mistake of thinking that they're experts at anything other than making things look cool. They're not scientists.
30 years of blowing stuff up makes you an explosives and pyrotechnics expert though so yes they are experts in that field.
The reverse-engineering only covers one aspect of the process.
There is no reverse engineering that needs to happen. It is simple chemistry.
The main thrust of the argument is that other societies simply lack the need or desire to want to discover it.
Like they didn't need or desire to discover alchemist's fire?
30 years of blowing stuff up makes you an explosives and pyrotechnics expert though so yes they are experts in that field.
30 years of blowing up things does not a chemistry degree make.
I don't give a rat's ass how many things they have explosive's experts blow up for them or how many soda machines they turn into remote control cars - THEY ARE NOT CHEMISTS. Adam couldn't even figure out how to develop film after having been given the essentials for doing so even after having had a job doing so for years when he was younger.
He doesnt have better access, he has worse. Because the gun itself half or 3/4ths as much a magic weapons. So assuming a player has relative wealth, when he wants to purchase a new weapon, instead of it coasting 2350gp for a new +1 weapon, it costs 3300 or 3800 gp. This means that a signficiant portion of the gun-user's wealth is tied up in the cost of the gun, where as other martial characters are applying that additional cost to more magic weapons or other gear. Add that to the fact that the reload time for firearms means you NEED more then one, and you have a considerable amount of a player's wealth going to the mundane cost of the weapon.
He may start with a gun as gunslinger (leaving non-gunslingers who want to use guns out to dry, which is something that no other weapon type does) but that initial gun will not be the only gun he uses his whole career, and the cost of those new guns come out of pocket. Hurting the character in relative wealth, since a gun's price is artificially inflated and not relative to its actual in game worth.
Who buys a new weapon every level? Why not enchant your existing one?
Or do what the cowboy in my game did: Don't enchant the gun, enchant the bullets. Far cheaper to have a variety of +1 bane bullets than anything else.
The reverse-engineering only covers one aspect of the process.There is no reverse engineering that needs to happen. It is simple chemistry.
The main thrust of the argument is that other societies simply lack the need or desire to want to discover it.Like they didn't need or desire to discover alchemist's fire?
hmmm , that makes me wonder what the difference between our chemistry and their alchemy is. The two might be very very different.
Cartigan, if and when you run games in Golarion, do you make guns and explosives more common than in the 'baseline' setting?
Cartigan, if and when you run games in Golarion, do you make guns and explosives more common than in the 'baseline' setting?
That's beside any point. The fact is the attempt to add guns into the game as it exists while simultaneously trying to artificially discourage their use and "explain" why it's like that leads to a sizable amount of nonsense. You either have guns in the game or you don't. You can't have them in the game but want no one to have them.
Who buys a new weapon every level? Why not enchant your existing one?Or do what the cowboy in my game did: Don't enchant the gun, enchant the bullets. Far cheaper to have a variety of +1 bane bullets than anything else.
Who buys a new weapon every level? The person who saved 2000gp every 50 shots.
Though yeah, for very SPECIFIC items like banes, enchanting ammo is better.
I don't give a rat's ass how many things they have explosive's experts blow up for them or how many soda machines they turn into remote control cars - THEY ARE NOT CHEMISTS.30 years of blowing stuff up makes you an explosives and pyrotechnics expert though so yes they are experts in that field.
30 years of blowing up things does not a chemistry degree make.
But they have knowledge about making explosives, a lot of knowledge. One does not need a degree in Chemistry to be able to do it just experience. I've been in the miltary for 9 years trained in demolitions I can make all sorts of bombs but I don't have a degree and I'm not a Chemist.
So to answer you Cartigan - THEY DON'T NEED TO BE CHEMISTS to have the knowledge to make gunpowder and to know what gunpowder can or can not do.
An expert in demolitions and pyrotechnics has that knowledge 30+ years in the field makes you an EXPERT. And can do things with that knowledge that many Chemists can not.
hmmm , that makes me wonder what the difference between our chemistry and their alchemy is. The two might be very very different.
The reverse-engineering only covers one aspect of the process.There is no reverse engineering that needs to happen. It is simple chemistry.
The main thrust of the argument is that other societies simply lack the need or desire to want to discover it.Like they didn't need or desire to discover alchemist's fire?
Of course, the nature of scientific discovery is also such that without a body of knowledge on which to build upon, what we regard as simple today would be inconceivable to people in a distant time. And this is a good point, actually. Alchemy is by most definitions inextricably linked to magic, whilst science isn't. Alchemy could well have been birthed by the study of magic, whilst, as far as science goes, most of Golarion does not seem to have developed past metallurgy, much less built up any body of knowledge of chemistry. Alkenstar seems to be the exception to this, and as we've both brought up, this has been wrought by necessity.
But they have knowledge about making explosives, a lot of knowledge.
Sure, if you ignore they don't make the explosives. Or apply them.
One does not need a degree in Chemistry to be able to do it just experience. I've been in the miltary for 9 years trained in demolitions I can make all sorts of bombs but I don't have a degree and I'm not a Chemist.
They are neither experiences with chemistry or making explosives.
An expert in demolitions and pyrotechnics has that knowledge 30+ years in the field makes you an EXPERT. And can do things with that knowledge that many Chemists can not.
They are neither experts in demolitions nor pyrotechnics. Their experience is closer to mechanical or electrical engineering.
Of course, the nature of scientific discovery is also such that without a body of knowledge on which to build upon, what we regard as simple today would be inconceivable to people in a distant time. And this is a good point, actually. Alchemy is by most definitions inextricably linked to magic, whilst science isn't. Alchemy could well have been birthed by the study of magic, whilst, as far as science goes, most of Golarion does not seem to have developed past metallurgy, much less built up any body of knowledge of chemistry. Alkenstar seems to be the exception to this, and as we've both brought up, this has been wrought by necessity.hmmm , that makes me wonder what the difference between our chemistry and their alchemy is. The two might be very very different.
The reverse-engineering only covers one aspect of the process.There is no reverse engineering that needs to happen. It is simple chemistry.
The main thrust of the argument is that other societies simply lack the need or desire to want to discover it.Like they didn't need or desire to discover alchemist's fire?
I'm fairly certain there are already a number of mundane explosives in the game.
But they have knowledge about making explosives, a lot of knowledge.Sure, if you ignore they don't make the explosives. Or apply them.
One does not need a degree in Chemistry to be able to do it just experience. I've been in the miltary for 9 years trained in demolitions I can make all sorts of bombs but I don't have a degree and I'm not a Chemist.They are neither experiences with chemistry or making explosives.
An expert in demolitions and pyrotechnics has that knowledge 30+ years in the field makes you an EXPERT. And can do things with that knowledge that many Chemists can not.They are neither experts in demolitions nor pyrotechnics. Their experience is closer to mechanical or electrical engineering.
Demolitions is both making and applying high explosives Cartigan.
They have done Pyrotechnics it was part of their special effects movie training. The two leads have done all of that stuff. They have experts do the work merely for INSURANCE purposes as many of the things they prove or disprove are highly dangerous.
But I digress as arguing with you is akin to talking to a brick wall it gets you no where.
I'm fairly certain there are already a number of mundane explosives in the game.Of course, the nature of scientific discovery is also such that without a body of knowledge on which to build upon, what we regard as simple today would be inconceivable to people in a distant time. And this is a good point, actually. Alchemy is by most definitions inextricably linked to magic, whilst science isn't. Alchemy could well have been birthed by the study of magic, whilst, as far as science goes, most of Golarion does not seem to have developed past metallurgy, much less built up any body of knowledge of chemistry. Alkenstar seems to be the exception to this, and as we've both brought up, this has been wrought by necessity.hmmm , that makes me wonder what the difference between our chemistry and their alchemy is. The two might be very very different.
The reverse-engineering only covers one aspect of the process.There is no reverse engineering that needs to happen. It is simple chemistry.
The main thrust of the argument is that other societies simply lack the need or desire to want to discover it.Like they didn't need or desire to discover alchemist's fire?
And I'm not sure there are (alchemist fire being a highly flammeable rather than explosive substance, and also a product of alchemy, which appears to be an art derived from magic rather than science). I honestly can't think of any other substance that might come close.
But let's agree to disagree on this one. This is becoming a rather moot argument. Tagion and I have civilly offered what we believe to be plausible explanations for the price of gunpowder in Golarion based on our perceptions. If your perception is different, feel free to offer it civilly and let the developers decide which, if either, they decide to adopt.
But they have knowledge about making explosives, a lot of knowledge.Sure, if you ignore they don't make the explosives. Or apply them.
One does not need a degree in Chemistry to be able to do it just experience. I've been in the miltary for 9 years trained in demolitions I can make all sorts of bombs but I don't have a degree and I'm not a Chemist.They are neither experiences with chemistry or making explosives.
An expert in demolitions and pyrotechnics has that knowledge 30+ years in the field makes you an EXPERT. And can do things with that knowledge that many Chemists can not.They are neither experts in demolitions nor pyrotechnics. Their experience is closer to mechanical or electrical engineering.Demolitions is both making and applying high explosives Cartigan.
They have done Pyrotechnics it was part of their special effects movie training. The two leads have done all of that stuff. They have experts do the work merely for INSURANCE purposes as many of the things they prove or disprove are highly dangerous.
But I digress as arguing with you is akin to talking to a brick wall it gets you no where.
Fact: Adam could not figure out how to develop a photo given materials.
Fact: Neither could make workable gunpowder given materials.Fact: Those are the materials gunpowder IS made of. People have done it or we wouldn't have gunpowder.
I think a simple explanation for why guns aren't becoming so widespread on Golarion is simply that most people would think that "Magic Is Better". Many of the people who would be smart enough to figure out or mass produce gunpower probably think that their magical bombs or fireballs are better and more reliable. So, only a few crazy people outside of Alkenstar (aka gunslingers) are even bothering with the stuff. This would make the few guns that exist outside of Alkenstar into expensive curiosities for most.
Yea, not a perfect explanation, but it works well enough that I think I'll use it in my campaigns.
But let's agree to disagree on this one. This is becoming a rather moot argument. Tagion and I have civilly offered what we believe to be plausible explanations for the price of gunpowder in Golarion based on our perceptions. If your perception is different, feel free to offer it civilly and let the developers decide which, if either, they decide to adopt.
The only "plausible" cost of gunpowder is thus: it is affordable to the average NPC or it doesn't exist. The only reason it costs thus now is artificial overbalancing and trying to have your cake and eat it too.
If gunpowder was never made outside Alkenstar because magic is better, it would NEVER sell for that much outside Alkenstar. Being useless makes prices go DOWN, not UP. Also, NO ONE would have it. It wouldn't be rare and expensive; it wouldn't exist.
Inside Alkenstar, there is no reason for it or guns to cost that much. That's their whole schtick but even first level PC adventurers can't afford to arm themselves with a single gun and use it? I lol.
The cost of guns and black powder and bullets is laughably artificial and unbelievable. Never mind the mechanics.
That's beside any point. The fact is the attempt to add guns into the game as it exists while simultaneously trying to artificially discourage their use and "explain" why it's like that leads to a sizable amount of nonsense. You either have guns in the game or you don't. You can't have them in the game but want no one to have them.
I don't think Jacobs and his team 'want no one to have them.' If that were the case, they would not have included gunpowder in the setting material. They've just decided to make guns expensive and rare, at least in most of the world. That decision keeps a certain aesthetic that a majority of the design team seem to desire. I get that this state of affairs in-game harms your SoD, but is it really an unforgivable flaw with the setting? Isn't it easy for you to fix this in your own game? Just lower the costs of guns as you please. If you aren't running Golarion, you wouldn't even be doing the easy work of adjusting a published setting.
I understand the desire to give feedback. In another thread, I presented criticism of the 'cheesecake' art in some of the books. I like the system, but a lot of the art leaves me cold. Except for the cute monsters, of course! Goblins say 'dance, magic, dance!"
I've even considered creating a custom Pathfinder rules reference by printing the whole PFRD and adding pictures that I like. I need to check on the legality of doing so. It would be only for my own use, not for distribution or sale.
But let's agree to disagree on this one. This is becoming a rather moot argument. Tagion and I have civilly offered what we believe to be plausible explanations for the price of gunpowder in Golarion based on our perceptions. If your perception is different, feel free to offer it civilly and let the developers decide which, if either, they decide to adopt.The only "plausible" cost of gunpowder is thus: it is affordable to the average NPC or it doesn't exist. The only reason it costs thus now is artificial overbalancing and trying to have your cake and eat it too.
If gunpowder was never made outside Alkenstar because magic is better, it would NEVER sell for that much outside Alkenstar. Being useless makes prices go DOWN, not UP. Also, NO ONE would have it. It wouldn't be rare and expensive; it wouldn't exist.
Inside Alkenstar, there is no reason for it or guns to cost that much. That's their whole schtick but even first level PC adventurers can't afford to arm themselves with a single gun and use it? I lol.
The cost of guns and black powder and bullets is laughably artificial and unbelievable. Never mind the mechanics.
Did you know that rubies have little practical use outside of jewellery? Why are they expensive? Because they are very, very rare (and also look pretty if properly cut).
Did you know that diamonds are actually alot more plentiful than their price woud indicate? Why are they exensive? Because a company named De Beers acquired a vast majority of the world's diamond deposits and stores and controls the supply of it to the world, making it artificially rare.
I think this thread has outlived it usefulness, in that the original question has long since been addressed. If you want to continue to debate the economics and plausibility of gunpower in a fantasy setting, please make a different thread.