What's in a name?

[dpnorton82]

I see LOT'S of discussion and dissent regarding the names chosen for the new classes in UC, especially the Ninja.

I tend to agree with the dissent, Ninja is just odd and too connotative for most people's games (my own included).

Should just be called Skulk, or something equally evocative of someone who works from the shadows. The class could be a "ninja" in every manner but name; would be easier to swallow (if not widely received with open arms and a welcoming party).

I've seen many attempts to assuage the resistance, but I wonder why the powers that be insist upon fighting such an uphill battle. If it looks like a Ninja, acts like a Ninja and fills the role of a Ninja, I don't think that those who have desperate need for a Ninja will mind using a class with a different moniker. Many are quick to say "we already have that archetype covered" when people request specifics, but these seem to be the same people that are so avidly defending the Ninja despite its specificity.

The vast majority of gamers have no knowledge or previous understanding of what a Paladin was in history, or what role a Bard truly played, etc. The archetype of these classes is solely shaped by the game, and they are loose enough that the imagination of character creation is afforded a tremendous amount of breathing room. With the name Ninja, there is an unbelievable amount of baggage and pre-existing belief systems surrounding the term. Why insist upon trying to change those understandings for the sake of pastime? Who wants to play the class and constantly defend why it is that their character isn't a "Ninja" as is understood by the general populace?

I've already seen statement by a Paizo official in another thread that lucidly explained that the name Ninja is here to stay, despite the feelings of those that support the game, so I digress. I dunno though, perhaps it's just the fact that Ninja and Samurai are appearing in the same expansion? Too much, too soon?

Can we not be polled on the matter?

[Shadow_of_death]

okay so instead of having people pretend their class is a ninja, why not oh idk pretend the ninja is something else?

you claim its because of pre-conceived notions, but if people already have such fantastical views on ninjas then why wouldn't they be put into a fantasy game?

At a point being generic doesn't net good enough results.

[dpnorton82]

Shadow_of_death wrote:

okay so instead of having people pretend their class is a ninja, why not oh idk pretend the ninja is something else?

It's a majority thing... are most people going to be pretending their Ninja is "something else" or pretending that their [insert less-connotative class name here] is a "Ninja"?

Quote:

you claim its because of pre-conceived notions, but if people already have such fantastical views on ninjas then why wouldn't they be put into a fantasy game?

I'm simply stating that, in my opinion, utilization of the term "ninja" seems to be more trouble than it's worth; forever being a point of contention in the game.

Quote:

At a point being generic doesn't net good enough results.

What good results are netted by the specificity of Ninja as opposed to the openendedness of something else?

[Shadow_of_death]

everything your suggesting is what the rogue class is doing, obviously ninja needs its own ruleset to really be a concept

[dpnorton82]

Shadow_of_death wrote:

everything your suggesting is what the rogue class is doing, obviously ninja needs its own ruleset to really be a concept

If it had it's own ruleset, that completely fleshed out and supported the fact that it is a straight up "Ninja", I'd be all for it; but, as is, I'm being presented something that is evocative in very specific ways yet is intended to be open-ended and applicable to all.

It's niche; recognize it as such, address it as such and run with it. Otherwise, don't invite the stigma of predetermined view without a truly compelling reason for doing so.

If the class was named something... I don't want to say, "more appropriate", but that's what I mean... then there would be much more fruitful discussion about the balance, mechanics and implementation as opposed to the discourse regarding Japanese-ness and all of the ridiculousness thereof. Honestly, those conversations will never end (and they could have been/can be wholly avoided).

[Shadow_of_death]

not really, if it looks like a ninja, acts like a ninja, and makes you think of a ninja then people are going to complain of peoples intolerance to calling it a ninja

in the end it is easier to modify an iconic figure then turn your off-hand name into an iconic figure

[Kenjishinomouri]

They've already said the ninja name is staying for the iconic value, theres no need to even bother continuing to put up forums about this