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This ability seems weak for a 10th level trick and is highly depends on how your GM role-plays the monsters. It's basically just a trick from Halo Reach. Though neat, it should be a normal ninja trick not a master one. Instead, and in lieu of the video game references, this ability may work better. It is based off the original Ninja Gaiden II:The Dark Sword of Chaos and the orange ninja clone power-up.
Shadow Double: This trick allows the ninja to create an illusionary double of herself that mimics her attacks. This functions as Shadow Conjuration with the following exceptions: The conjuration is of the ninja herself, only has access to the ninja's sneak attack and no other abilities, has a saving throw DC of 10+1/2 the ninja's level + the ninja's Charisma modifier, and persists for 1 round per level of ninja or destroyed. The ninja can use this ability once per day for fee. Each additional use of this ability uses up 1 ki point.
What do you guys think of this as a substitute?
Insta flank... on a class I would hope is based on more movement. Not sure how I feel about this
Flavor: Check.
Balance: MIA.
I think you are right that Shadow Split is a little tame for 10th level (by comparison to the rest of the ninja abilities), but I am in the camp that thinks its other magical abilities from ki are out of balance, so my opinion may not be relevant to you.
The Trickery devotion feat from Complete Champion Would be an interesting way to go. It starts out as a silent image crossed with unseen servant with 6+ your level HP. With levels it gets stronger and can eventually participate in combat.
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Ok taking a look at this I think the sneak attack is a bit too powerful. Perhaps the shadow double has no abilities or skills as well? Only retains the character's feats? Shadow of Death makes a valid point on lacking mobility. By getting rid of the double's skills, it can no longer use acrobatics to avoid attacks of opportunity. So a ninja can choose to risk losing his shadow (which will have low hp) right away or make the move to flank himself.
Ok taking a look at this I think the sneak attack is a bit too powerful. Perhaps the shadow double has no abilities or skills as well? Only retains the character's feats? Shadow of Death makes a valid point on lacking mobility. By getting rid of the double's skills, it can no longer use acrobatics to avoid attacks of opportunity. So a ninja can choose to risk losing his shadow (which will have low hp) right away or make the move to flank himself.
Or maybe, They should give the ninja the ability to sneak attack in their smoke bomb but only the regular smoke bomb. sorry i know this is not about the shadow Split but its something i just thought up like it could be another ninja trick
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Or maybe, They should give the ninja the ability to sneak attack in their smoke bomb but only the regular smoke bomb. sorry i know this is not about the shadow Split but its something i just thought up like it could be another ninja trick
Sounds interesting do you think you could write this up like a trick and post it? I sure would be interested.
As for Shadow Double, the challenge here is to maintain the flavor while balancing it with little complication if we're going to make it work. I'll think some more about it and get up a new trick paragraph like the first post soon.
Deadly Precision (Su): When fighting in non-magical fog your opponents count as being flat footed in regard to Precision based damage how ever they do not lost here dex bonus to their armor. Only smoke bombs and alchemy items created by the ninja work with this ability. Must have smoke bomb ninja trick before selecting this trick.
hows this sound? I made it so it would work with smoke sticks, pellets, and arrows. Also, so it was a little easier but made it so u had to have the smoke bomb trick to represent that a ninja that does not know how to make a smoke bomb is not as accurate when attacking in fog.
Deadly Precision (Su): When fighting in non-magical fog your opponents count as being flat footed in regard to Precision based damage how ever they do not lost here dex bonus to their armor. Only smoke bombs and alchemy items created by the ninja work with this ability. Must have smoke bomb ninja trick before selecting this trick.
hows this sound? I made it so it would work with smoke sticks, pellets, and arrows. Also, so it was a little easier but made it so u had to have the smoke bomb trick to represent that a ninja that does not know how to make a smoke bomb is not as accurate when attacking in fog.
There is a feat that already does this essentially its called Shadow Strike, it allows sneak attacks with concealment. To allow them to attack with no penalty in combination with Shadow Strike breaks the game.
I think its too much.
EDIT: to elaborate it essentially means they can make sneak attacks always as a constant from inside the smoke bombs range which definitely makes it a must have choice for a ninja with smoke bombs.
really hmmm then tell me does concealment make your opponents count as flat footed? Answer no. To allow them to attack with no penalty in combination with Shadow Strike for the simple fact that this is a MASTER TRICK makes and the fact that improved blind fight removes the 20% how does it breaks the game??????? it does not allow you to re-roll for concealment, also do i need to mention that a oracle can Gaze of Flames (Su): You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow you to see normally. so your saying its cool to take 2 levels of oracle but if i come up with a master trick that dose the same thing WITH ONLY THE NINJAS SMOKE CREATION ITEMS it breaks the game ........ok whatever you say
Edit:trying not to be a jerk so i keep editing it to take mean stuff out
really hmmm then tell me does concealment make your opponents count as flat footed? Answer no. To allow them to attack with no penalty in combination with Shadow Strike for the simple fact that this is a MASTER TRICK makes and the fact that improved blind fight removes the 20% how does it breaks the game??????? it does not allow you to re-roll for concealment, also do i need to mention that a oracle can Gaze of Flames (Su): You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow you to see normally. so your saying its cool to take 2 levels of oracle but if i come up with a master trick that dose the same thing WITH ONLY THE NINJAS SMOKE CREATION ITEMS it breaks the game ........ok whatever you say
Edit:trying not to be a jerk so i keep editing it to take mean stuff out
well at your attempts to "trying not to be a jerk" I will say you must have flawed in your editing.
Let me attempt to break through your arguement as it is:
1. If the ninja can only do it in his smoke, then why? is it "just because" and therefor has no real reason and it doesnt work in other smoke? not even smokesticks which the bombs say they work exactly the same as?
2. Yes everyone IS flat-footed to your attacks for a plethora of reasons. They cannot see you through the smoke but you can see them. You could be stealthing anywhere inside the smoke even if for some reason you were even kind of visible just because you have concealment.
3. The reason this would be a major problem is because it then becomes a "must have". If you could see through your own smoke cloud at no penalty that is phenomenal. Not only does it allow sneak attack it allows many things to happen, and with the ninjas excess of attacks due to flurry of stars and such a problem.
4. Oracles gain a particular "curse" to go along with such benefits as that gaze attack you described. Thus it has a penalty. Honestly I wasnt aware that a class got such an ability and I am quite ill at the moment so I am not going to go dig up my book but I do hope that it is a limited amount of time a day.
Honestly when you open a forum and ask for opinions and then get snarky with people that disagree I find that both insulting and ridiculous. Please work on that.
It honestly would not be too bad of a ninja trick, but I would rather see it as an Item (perhaps something called Eyes of the Ninja) so that everyone could have it. Ninjas do not deserve anything that specific merely because they have smoke bombs that replicate very cheap alchemical items.
Honestly I would just have given ninjas +1/2 level to craft alchemy checks and let them craft their own gear, that way ninjas could vary in nature of tools of the trade.
YMMV
really hmmm then tell me does concealment make your opponents count as flat footed? Answer no. To allow them to attack with no penalty in combination with Shadow Strike for the simple fact that this is a MASTER TRICK makes and the fact that improved blind fight removes the 20% how does it breaks the game??????? it does not allow you to re-roll for concealment, also do i need to mention that a oracle can Gaze of Flames (Su): You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow you to see normally. so your saying its cool to take 2 levels of oracle but if i come up with a master trick that dose the same thing WITH ONLY THE NINJAS SMOKE CREATION ITEMS it breaks the game ........ok whatever you say
Edit:trying not to be a jerk so i keep editing it to take mean stuff out
well at your attempts to "trying not to be a jerk" I will say you must have flawed in your editing.
Let me attempt to break through your arguement as it is:
1. If the ninja can only do it in his smoke, then why? is it "just because" and therefor has no real reason and it doesnt work in other smoke? not even smokesticks which the bombs say they work exactly the same as?
2. Yes everyone IS flat-footed to your attacks for a plethora of reasons. They cannot see you through the smoke but you can see them. You could be stealthing anywhere inside the smoke even if for some reason you were even kind of visible just because you have concealment.
3. The reason this would be a major problem is because it then becomes a "must have". If you could see through your own smoke cloud at no penalty that is phenomenal. Not only does it allow sneak attack it allows many things to happen, and with the ninjas excess of attacks due to flurry of stars and such a problem.
4. Oracles gain a particular "curse" to go along with such benefits as that gaze attack you described. Thus it has a penalty. Honestly I wasnt aware that a class got such an ability and I am quite...
I see your point and apologize for being a jerk it was not my intention.
maybe there could be a way to make the enemy's count as flat footed in a ninjas smoke bomb like hmmmmDistracting Bomb (Ex): a ninjas smoke bomb gets a +1 bluff check to Distract the targets that are caught in it they must make a sense motive check to not be distracted this is made at the ninjas unmodified bluff adding the +1. This trick only distracts the enemy's till end of the ninjas next turn and the ninja can not use another ninja tricks in conjunction with this on a ninja can only deal sneak attacks if she has the Shadow Strike feat. The ninja must have the Smoke bombs ninja trick before selecting this trick.
there for you would also have to make a hide check to count them as flat footed and it only allows for on round of sneak attacks
and no its not limited Gaze of Flames (Su): You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient
to allow you to see normally. At 7th level, you can gaze
through any source of flame within 10 feet per oracle
level, as if using clairvoyance. You can use this ability for a
number of rounds per day equal to your oracle level, but
these rounds do not need to be consecutive. This is the whole description its just a Revelation in the Flame mystery. and can be taken at level two.
distracting bomb
I like the idea but you should probably flesh it out a little more. I think that could work though.
distracting bombI like the idea but you should probably flesh it out a little more. I think that could work though.
Idk what else to add.... go ahead if you think of something that needs to be added.