Robich |
Hi,
So the Feat 'Boon Companion' says this:
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.
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And I was wondering what exactly is meant by abilities; it's attributes? The Special sections? All off it?
Jackman |
Jackman wrote:Can this feat be taken by a ranger at first level?No, because a 1st level Ranger does not meet the prerequisites. Earliest they'd be able to take it is 5th level.
The feat doesn't list a level requirement just a class ability. The argument could be made that the Ranger, even at first level, has the animal companion class ability. The feat wouldn't kick-in until you actually gain the companion at 4th level. I was just curious, because that way you could take it early(1st or 3rd level) and when you gain the animal companion at 4th level it would arrive as the tougher version, instead of waiting a whole level to toughen up.
Carbon D. Metric |
A PC does not have a class ability until they gained it through leveling so no, a first level ranger does NOT qualify for boon companion.
Also keep in mind that Boon Companion does nothing for single classed characters since their maximum effective level for their companion is equal to their number of hit dice which would be their current level. A rangers effective ranger level for an animal companion is = to his hit dice, which is equivalent to druid level -3. In short only multiclassed characters can reap any real benefit from the feat.
ShadowcatX |
A PC does not have a class ability until they gained it through leveling so no, a first level ranger does NOT qualify for boon companion.
Also keep in mind that Boon Companion does nothing for single classed characters since their maximum effective level for their companion is equal to their number of hit dice which would be their current level. A rangers effective ranger level for an animal companion is = to his hit dice, which is equivalent to druid level -3. In short only multiclassed characters can reap any real benefit from the feat.
I fully agree with the first paragraph, but if all bonuses and penalties are applied in the most beneficial order I don't believe your second paragraph is correct though I do see your reasoning behind it. Is there any official ruling on that?
Carbon D. Metric |
I believe they spoke about it at some point but there is no easy way to search for developer posts on this forum so... yeah.
Regardless of that however if you use Herolab or any other similar character creation suite it calculates it the way I described. Think about it like this.
The effect of boon companion is that increases your effective level for a specific class for an animal companion/mount/familiar at a +3 bonus, to a maxiumum of your character level.
Lets say you have Bob the ranger, level 6. He takes boon companion and increases his effective level for the purposes of his animal companion by 3 up to a total of his current character level, which is level 6. This means he went from have a level 6 power level for his AC, to having an effective level 6 power level. It did nothing.
Now Sarah the Multiclass Fighter 3/Druid 3, picks it up. She goes from having a 3rd level animal companion to getting that +3 level bonus up to her total character level which is 6. Meaning that taking this feat essentially makes up for lost ground that you acquire when you multiclass as the class you invested in did not advance you AC.
Bob still has a lame level 3 Badger whereas Sarah has a sweet level 6 Boar.
Set |
Also keep in mind that Boon Companion does nothing for single classed characters since their maximum effective level for their companion is equal to their number of hit dice which would be their current level. A rangers effective ranger level for an animal companion is = to his hit dice, which is equivalent to druid level -3. In short only multiclassed characters can reap any real benefit from the feat.
My brain has run out of whatever neurotransmitter that allows me to get into debates on the internet at the moment, but I'll probably pop by later to strenuously disagree with this position.
IMO, Rangers (and Animal Domain Clerics) can benefit from this feat.
And, going straight into house-rule territory, I'd allow it to work for multi-classed Paladins, Cavaliers and Summoners, allowing them to keep their mounts / eidolons up, despite their digression into some other profession.
Carbon D. Metric |
Edit: So I misread the level boost, it is a +4 level adjustment, which is even more obscene. If you, or your GM are fine with allowing a single feat to effectively double or triple how powerful your character is by munchkin interpretation of this feat that is all you, but please know that it is stately against both RAW & RAI.
I've updated the beast in the spoiler as well if anyone wanted to check it out. 30 HP at level 1 and 3 attacks at +6 to hit will take down anything short of a CR 4 in 1 round or less. It is clearly not balanced for this and is not meant to be played as such.
The feat only interacts with the effective class level of the class you pick it for. This means it changes what your effective level for RANGER is up to the maximum of your character level, it doesn't interact with your effective druid level which is how you determine how you what statistics your AC has.
Inversely look at what it would mean if the way you interpret it was correct.
Sarah is a level 1 druid. She is a human & picked eye for talent for +2 strength on her lion & boon companion for her first level feat. That means a first level character would have a lion with the following statistics.
Male Lion
NN Medium Animal
Init +4; Senses Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +6
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DEFENSE
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AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 13 (+4 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 30 (+5)
Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +3
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OFFENSE
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Spd 40 ft.
Melee Bite (Lion) +6 (1d6+3/20/x2) and
Claw x2 (Lion) +6 x2 (1d4+3/20/x2) and
Rake x2 (Lion) +6 x2 (1d4+3/20/x2)
--------------------
STATISTICS
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Str 17, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +3; CMB +6; CMD 20 (24 vs. Trip)
Feats Big Game Hunter, Cleave, Power Attack -1/+2
Tricks Attack [Trick], Attack [Trick], Attack Any Target [Trick], Come [Trick], Defend [Trick], Down [Trick], Fighting [Trick], Guard [Trick], Heel [Trick], Stay [Trick]
Skills Acrobatics +8, Climb +7, Intimidate +1, Perception +6, Stealth +12, Swim +7 Modifiers +4 Stealth in Undergrowth
Languages
SQ Attack Any Target [Trick], Come [Trick], Defend [Trick], Evasion (Ex), Fighting [Trick], Guard [Trick], Heel [Trick]
A character is not meant to have an animal companion that has more HD, or generally speaking that is more powerful than the actual character.
The presentation of how I am displaying it IS at full ranger level. The ranger at level 4 has a ranger level of 4 for determining his animal companion. The companion entry refers to an effective druid level which the feat NEVER interacts with. A 4th level ranger with boon companion would not benefit in any way from taking the feat. Only multiclass characters can ever benefit from this feat.
Set |
Inversely look at what it would mean if the way you interpret it was correct.
I have no idea to whom you are replying, but I don't see anyone in the last few posts saying anything along the lines of what you are refuting.
I think everybody agrees that a 1st level Druid with this feat has the exact same companion as a 1st level Druid without this feat, since her character level is 1. If she takes a level of Fighter or Sorcerer or something for her 2nd level (character level 2, druid level 1), *then* she begins to benefit from the feat.
Kratzee |
I think you missed the part about it saying "to a maximum bonus equal to your character level." A single class druid would not benefit from this feat, but a ranger's character level is equal to his class level if he is a single class ranger. The feat would increase his effective character level by three to his maximum for the purposes of his animal companion.
Gignere |
To Carbon:
I don't even know who you are arguing with but noone in the thread suggests that is how the feat works. It only makes the animal companion or familiar more powerful if you have more character level then HD of the companion. The feat only brings the companion or familiar HD to a maximum of your character level or +4 HD.
Mosaic |
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.
I know he's being munchkiny and I can just say no, but what's the RAW argument against a player who wants to interpret the line "to a maximum bonus equal to your character level" as:
• Druid 1 can get a +1 bonus• Druid 2 can get a +2 bonus
• Druid 3 can get a +3 bonus
• Druid 4 can get a +4 bonus?
He's mostly just trying to push the envelope, but the feat doesn't actually say "multiclass or delayed-animal-companion classes," and it says "to a maximum bonus equal to your character level," not "to a maximum equal to your character level."
I agree that it's stupidly powerful this way, but I'd like to deny it based on RAW rather than GM fiat.
Josh M Foster Developer |
This has been clarified elsewhere, I'll link that thread in a sec.
The bonus allows you to treat the result of the animal companion table as if your level were 4 higher to a maximum result of your character level. The word "bonus" is poorly worded, but the offical ruling is that it's applied this way. It doesn't take the animal HD up, just their powers that are based on your level. It can overcome the Ranger loss, as the ranger adjusts the result of the table, then the feat takes it back up.
I hope that makes sense. Link to the official statement incoming when I find the thread.
Lou Diamond |
The purpose of the feat is a ccording to the Dev who wrote it is to
overcome the -3 HD that non druid animal companions suffer. The feat is simple you animal comanion has the same hit dice as the character does it is not a tough feat to understand read it for what it does don't try to overthink it or munchkin it. Boon companion is a must take feat for a Ranger or a Cleric with the animal domain.
sieylianna |
The purpose of the feat is a ccording to the Dev who wrote it is to
overcome the -3 HD that non druid animal companions suffer. The feat is simple you animal comanion has the same hit dice as the character does it is not a tough feat to understand read it for what it does don't try to overthink it or munchkin it. Boon companion is a must take feat for a Ranger or a Cleric with the animal domain.
You can add Sylvan Sorcerers to the must take list. Now I just need to get it to work in Herolab.
Alienfreak |
Lou Diamond wrote:You can add Sylvan Sorcerers to the must take list. Now I just need to get it to work in Herolab.The purpose of the feat is a ccording to the Dev who wrote it is to
overcome the -3 HD that non druid animal companions suffer. The feat is simple you animal comanion has the same hit dice as the character does it is not a tough feat to understand read it for what it does don't try to overthink it or munchkin it. Boon companion is a must take feat for a Ranger or a Cleric with the animal domain.
You meant people with the Sylvan Bloodline Eldritch Heritage... ;)