To be frank - I appreciate getting Tian-Xia content (consider me a fanboy). So a Tian-Xia primer, a la the Inner Sea primer, would be great. Along with some Jade Regent specific releases and something that enriches the regional diversity.
But continental Tian Xia as a whole, I think, deserves a proper full-capacity treatment. Having excerpts spread over 5 or 10 separate products would hardly do it justice, and would canonically present a fractured view of the continent with disparate parts yielding different mileage. Considering that different pieces are likely edited to somewhat fit the theme of their respective products, the collective of Tian Xia articles would form a poorly structured and slightly incoherent whole.
I guess, to emphasize the message I want to convey: don't get carried away with too many partial representations of the region. An overview (a la the Inner Sea primer) and one or two supporting products will be quite sufficient for 2011. Don't blow all your ammunition - rather save for a full-frontal full-featured full-blown Tian Xia world guide hardcover with 338 pages. I don't mind if you need to wait til 2012, or 2013 to release it.
Creative Director
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To be frank - I appreciate getting Tian-Xia content (consider me a fanboy). So a Tian-Xia primer, a la the Inner Sea primer, would be great. Along with some Jade Regent specific releases and something that enriches the regional diversity.
But continental Tian Xia as a whole, I think, deserves a proper full-capacity treatment. Having excerpts spread over 5 or 10 separate products would hardly do it justice, and would canonically present a fractured view of the continent with disparate parts yielding different mileage. Considering that different pieces are likely edited to somewhat fit the theme of their respective products, the collective of Tian Xia articles would form a poorly structured and slightly incoherent whole.
I guess, to emphasize the message I want to convey: don't get carried away with too many partial representations of the region. An overview (a la the Inner Sea primer) and one or two supporting products will be quite sufficient for 2011. Don't blow all your ammunition - rather save for a full-frontal full-featured full-blown Tian Xia world guide hardcover with 338 pages. I don't mind if you need to wait til 2012, or 2013 to release it.
Some day, a hardcover Tian-Xia book would be cool. Just not in 2011. Or in 2012 either; that year's already clogged with stuff as it is (none of which we've announced yet, but all of which kinda makes me excited and nervous at the same time). And that means we're in 2013, two years after Jade Regent, at which point the landscape may well have changed so much that a Tian-Xia hardcover's no longer really something many folks are still interested in.
We'll see, I guess! :)
I think a primer and a few 64 page softbound books would be fine
I think a primer and a few 64 page softbound books would be fine
Seconded. Although I'm sooo anticipating the hardcover!!
ok im lost. what is this Jade Regent i keep seeing.
ok im lost. what is this Jade Regent i keep seeing.
Jade Regent is an upcoming Adventure Path that starts in Sandpoint(I believe) and takes the party into Tian Xia.
If you saw anything about an "oriental" or "asian" setting stuff being released, it was talking about Jade Regent.
ok im lost. what is this Jade Regent i keep seeing.Jade Regent is an upcoming Adventure Path that starts in Sandpoint(I believe) and takes the party into Tian Xia.
If you saw anything about an "oriental" or "asian" setting stuff being released, it was talking about Jade Regent.
thanks
And that means we're in 2013, two years after Jade Regent, at which point the landscape may well have changed so much that a Tian-Xia hardcover's no longer really something many folks are still interested in.
Speaking purely for myself: I bought all of the Forgotten Realms hardcover setting books for 3.0/3.5, and was really disappointed when they didn't follow through and create similar books for the remaining regions.
So, no matter how long after Jade Regent you are able to create a Tian Xia hardcover, I'll be buying it :)
why are all the countries called Tian-this, Tian-that, sounds a bit silly
Furthermore adding to the possible confusion... we haven't officially announced "Jade Regent" either, as in we don't have web pages up for them yet. We HAVE confirmed that it's the next AP though, via message board posts or chat room posts or convention chats or whatever.
Just out of interest: is it possible to "hold" Jade Regent for a while longer, so as to release it along with a fully supported campaign setting? I could imagine a first-quarter 2013 release for Jade Regent and Tian Xia hardcover.
That far-fetched notion aside, I think there's plenty of Asia interest among the Pathfinder fans that is independent of the stir-up caused by Jade Regent and the promise of ninja and samurai in Ultimate Combat. Sure, the gaming landscape evolves until then - but in terms of an extended regional (i.e. continental) setting, I still see Tian-Xia ahead of all the other candidates.
I know others will disagree, but I would have rather had a Tian Xia World Guide, full sized and hardcover, and put off Ultimate Combat for a while.
The longer you wait to do it people just get used to playing in the setting they have so future books don't sell as well and companies give up on the idea. I was so happy when I thought Paizo were going to release two World Guides this year as I thought Golarion might be the first setting that I could have books for the entire world sat up on the bookshelf like a complete set of encyclopaedias.
+100. I loved the idea of having a book per continent so we had the full world. That would be awesome. No one else that I know of has done this and id like to see Paizo be the first.
Also, never been too big on oriental settings, but I'm sure Paizo will make it appeal to me. The fact that if my group wanted to do an oriental adventures type game and we don't have to leave my favorite campaign setting is very very appealing to me.
I know others will disagree, but I would have rather had a Tian Xia World Guide, full sized and hardcover, and put off Ultimate Combat for a while.
Since most of the rules content required for Tian Xia is in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic I would rather have that then a TIan Xia HC. To me the Inner Sea started as a 64 page book, so if Tian Xia starts as a 64 page book that will be cool. As long as Tian Xia continues to see periodic development (an adventure here, a campaign setting book there, etc.), so that one day we can get the full setting HC.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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why are all the countries called Tian-this, Tian-that, sounds a bit silly
[Wild speculation] It's quite possible that they're only called 'Tian-' to the major power that deals with the West. For example, if Tian means 'land' the nations might be called 'land of the garlic eaters' 'land of the dwarf like people' 'land across the water' etc.
So Tian-Xia might mean 'Land of the True People' and Tian-Jo (for example) might mean 'land of the uncultured' The people of Tian-Jo call their land 'Kage' and themselves 'People of the shadow' They call Tian-Xia 'Arishi' which might translate as 'people who have overstated opinions of themselves'[/Wild Speculation]
Some day, a hardcover Tian-Xia book would be cool. Just not in 2011. Or in 2012 either; that year's already clogged with stuff as it is (none of which we've announced yet, but all of which kinda makes me excited and nervous at the same time). And that means we're in 2013, two years after Jade Regent, at which point the landscape may well have changed so much that a Tian-Xia hardcover's no longer really something many folks are still interested in.
I put a Tian-Xia book in the same category as epic and psionics books. There's going to be a vocal (but probably small, regardless of how loud they are) group who goes "Yeah! It's about time! Woo!", another equally sized and loud group who goes "That's it! See? I knew Paizo was going downhill publishing this junk!", and the majority of the people, as usual, will be silent, leaving everyone to think that one of the two tiny but vocal groups represents popular opinion.
I'll be happy to get a copy of it when it is finally published, and I'm sure it'll be interesting, but it's not my bag, so put me in the majority on that one. And put me in the first group for an epic book.
In other words, I by no means begrudge the OA fans their Tian-Xia book, just like I expect them not to begrudge me my epic book :)
iim more curious to know what these products are that JJ has said they already have lined up for 2012 cause right now I'm drawing a blank at what they could do for the general game. There's always gonna be stuff for Golarion, but idk what else besides psionics, the ultimates, and epic you can do for the main game.
why are all the countries called Tian-this, Tian-that, sounds a bit silly
[Wild speculation] It's quite possible that they're only called 'Tian-' to the major power that deals with the West. For example, if Tian means 'land' the nations might be called 'land of the garlic eaters' 'land of the dwarf like people' 'land across the water' etc.
So Tian-Xia might mean 'Land of the True People' and Tian-Jo (for example) might mean 'land of the uncultured' The people of Tian-Jo call their land 'Kage' and themselves 'People of the shadow' They call Tian-Xia 'Arishi' which might translate as 'people who have overstated opinions of themselves'[/Wild Speculation]
Tianxia (see link) is actually Mandarin Chinese for "the world," literally "Everything Under Heaven/the Sky" (though it can mean just China, as well).
I think (?) Nick Logue came up with the name for Golarion. Tian actually means "heaven" (as in Tian Shan, the Heavenly Mountains, where one of the Chinese paradises, Kunlun, is. (The modern identification of Kunlun with the mountains on the northern border of Tibet doesn't fit the geography presented in The Book of Mountains and Seas and other cosmological works from early China). The problem, of course, is that this is a little like calling Avistan "Kosmos" or "The Known World"-- it's a RW term.Obviously, either the term has no relationship to Chinese, or the use of "Tian" is an abbreviated form-- for something like: "the people (Ren) under the Sky of the North" (Ren Tianxiabei) (I think) -- and we know that each emperor of subkingdoms in the RW also viewed their state as a microcosm- and hence another "Tian Xia." Thus the form Tian Dan could be short for Ren Tian(xia) Dan.
However, the early tendency to simply borrow Mandarin for Tian Xia and Sanskrit for Vudra has been revised in later books. The Cult of the Ebon Destroyers has non-Sanskrit words that sound like Sanskrit, just like Taldan and Chelish words in Avistan-based settings are invented. English is used to represent elements in Taldan (Common)- i.e, Daggerford, so some stray Chinese or Sanskrit words could be seen as "translations" into the RW cultural equivalent.
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Creative Director
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why are all the countries called Tian-this, Tian-that, sounds a bit silly
I agree. That's something we'll be revising for sure. We're explaining it for now by saying that, up until about 100 years ago, the ruling empire of the continent (among other things) forced some name changes by appending a lot of countries with the "Tien" prefix, and that now that that empire has collapsed, the continent is now starting to rebuild. Kind of like what happened when the USSR collapsed.
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Just out of interest: is it possible to "hold" Jade Regent for a while longer, so as to release it along with a fully supported campaign setting? I could imagine a first-quarter 2013 release for Jade Regent and Tian Xia hardcover.
That far-fetched notion aside, I think there's plenty of Asia interest among the Pathfinder fans that is independent of the stir-up caused by Jade Regent and the promise of ninja and samurai in Ultimate Combat. Sure, the gaming landscape evolves until then - but in terms of an extended regional (i.e. continental) setting, I still see Tian-Xia ahead of all the other candidates.
We've already "held" back on Jade Regent for 2 years. It was originally going to be our third AP, then our 5th one. We've pushed it back each time BECAUSE we couldn't support it with the books we wanted to support it with, which was growing increasingly frustrating for me (and for a lot of eager customers who've known Jade Regent was in the works—it was originally publicly announced at Paizocon 2 years ago, but we DID hold it back and that caused a fair amount of confusion).
At this point, the momentum building for Jade Regent is too vast to stop. It takes several weeks to build an outline for an AP (Jade Regent, for example, has an outline that's about 18,000 words long), and MONTHS for authors to write them. We've had folks writing Jade Regent adventures since last November. We've got a sketch for the first cover in already.
If we were to hold Jade Regent back at this point, the EARLIEST it would appear would probably be in 2014, to be honest, since our plans for 2012 and 2013 are pretty locked in as far as Adventure Paths go.
As for "fully supported," it WILL be fully supported as a campaign setting. The Inner Sea setting had less information about it in the first YEAR than Tian Xia will have about it by the time we're done with Jade Regent. And if the setting really takes off and folks LOVE it and demand more, we WILL do more.
But just because we haven't announced what's coming in the "AP Support" category for Jade Regent doesn't mean we're not doing anything at all.
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Creative Director
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iim more curious to know what these products are that JJ has said they already have lined up for 2012 cause right now I'm drawing a blank at what they could do for the general game. There's always gonna be stuff for Golarion, but idk what else besides psionics, the ultimates, and epic you can do for the main game.
We do far more products than just those for the general game, first of all.
Second of all: 2012 is the 5th anniversary of the Pathfinder RPG and the 10th anniversary of Paizo. We're not planning on letting those dates slip by without some pretty exciting and crazy releases!
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Creative Director
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Tianxia (see link) is actually Mandarin Chinese for "the world," literally "Everything Under Heaven/the Sky" (though it can mean just China, as well).
I think (?) Nick Logue came up with the name for Golarion. Tian actually means "heaven" (as in Tian Shan, the Heavenly Mountains, where one of the Chinese paradises, Kunlun, is. (The modern identification of Kunlun with the mountains on the northern border of Tibet doesn't fit the geography presented in The Book of Mountains and Seas and other cosmological works from early China). The problem, of course, is that this is a little like calling Avistan "Kosmos" or "The Known World"-- it's a RW term.
Obviously, either the term has no relationship to Chinese, or the use of "Tian" is an abbreviated form-- for something like: "the people (Ren) under the Sky of the North" (Ren Tianxiabei) (I think) -- and we know that each emperor of subkingdoms in the RW also viewed their state as a microcosm- and hence another "Tian Xia." Thus the form Tian Dan could be short for Ren Tian(xia) Dan.
However, the early tendency to simply borrow Mandarin for Tian Xia and Sanskrit for Vudra has been revised in later books. The Cult of the Ebon Destroyers has non-Sanskrit words that sound like Sanskrit,...
It was Nick Logue and Mike McArtor who came up with the name Tian-Xia. I wish I'd been paying more attention at the time, alas, since naming this region "Tian-Xia" has caused some creative problems with developing the region. By using a real Chinese word for the entire continent, suddenly we switch away from the implication that it's an "all of Asia" analogue. Why would our version of Japan, Korea, Cambodia, and the Pacific Islands (to name four non-Chinese regions) refer to themselves with a Chinese name?
The answer we came up with is that until 100 years ago, the entire continent had been ruled by Lung Wa (our China analogue) for a LONG LONG time. Just as the Inner Sea region has a world-changing event a century ago, so does Tian-Xia, because as Aroden died and the Worldwound opened and the Eye of Abendego formed, the empire of Lung Wa collapsed. But after thousands of years of rule, the name Tian-Xia stuck for the region.
SIDE RANT: Naming things is tricky. For European regions, we can come up with nonsense names like "Avistan" or the like and they sound like words that might come from a European region. I really REALLY want to take the same approach for Tian-Xia—naming their regions nonsense words that still SOUND Asian, but aren't actual Asian words. The ship's already sailed for many of these names, alas, but said ship isn't out of sight yet. I can still change its course.
Second of all: 2012 is the 5th anniversary of the Pathfinder RPG and the 10th anniversary of Paizo. We're not planning on letting those dates slip by without some pretty exciting and crazy releases!
I cant wait for this
I put a Tian-Xia book in the same category as epic and psionics books. There's going to be a vocal (but probably small, regardless of how loud they are) group who goes "Yeah! It's about time! Woo!", another equally sized and loud group who goes "That's it! See? I knew Paizo was going downhill publishing this junk!", and the majority of the people, as usual, will be silent, leaving everyone to think that one of the two tiny but vocal groups represents popular opinion.To be fair I don't think this thread has degenerated that far yet.
Oh, heck, I wasn't talking about this thread, just commenting in general about how the fans and foes seem to come creeping out of the woodwork for those three topics. Besides, a desire for Far Eastern material draws nowhere near the ire that a desire for epic material draws, from what I've seen.
Frankly, my view has always been "the more material the better." Nobody has to use it all, but the more of it there is, the more variety there is.
iim more curious to know what these products are that JJ has said they already have lined up for 2012 cause right now I'm drawing a blank at what they could do for the general game. There's always gonna be stuff for Golarion, but idk what else besides psionics, the ultimates, and epic you can do for the main game.We do far more products than just those for the general game, first of all.
Second of all: 2012 is the 5th anniversary of the Pathfinder RPG and the 10th anniversary of Paizo. We're not planning on letting those dates slip by without some pretty exciting and crazy releases!
i understand that, i was talking about the main game fr PF. but the majority of the people it seems to me (although im not one of them) is that they are looking for core game stuff. as far as that goes im all out of ideas, but thats why i dont work for you :P
i know there a crap ton of stuff to put out for Golarion, but from what ive seen not a lot of people that like it get on the forums. most people on here i would guess just like taking some of the material and adding it to their own world, which is fine, but i dont see them buying too many Golarion specific products. but i may be wrong. im all for whatever you guys put out and will buy it due to that it is expertly crafted and well put together. and the world is like no other so im definately all in on anything about Golarion (may i suggest a lost cities 2 book please?)
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why are all the countries called Tian-this, Tian-that, sounds a bit silly
I recently rewatched Hero with Jet Li. There, they say Tian Xia (or something fairly similar) means "Our Land." It's the punchline of the whole movie. One China. A single, unified land is better than 7 warring kingdoms. It why the last assassin refuses to kill the emperor, even though he knows it will mean the end of independence for his own kingdom of Zhao. The good of the many outweighs the suffering of a few. Clearly a bit of re-writing of myth and history to justify the winning side, but still, it's a pretty stirring moment. "A dead man hopes you're right."
We've already "held" back on Jade Regent for 2 years.
Wow. I can just imagine how frustrating that must be for you.
Thank you very much for the honest and direct feedback. I'll look forward to 2014 for the Tien world guide then ;)
iim more curious to know what these products are that JJ has said they already have lined up for 2012 cause right now I'm drawing a blank at what they could do for the general game. There's always gonna be stuff for Golarion, but idk what else besides psionics, the ultimates, and epic you can do for the main game.
Off the op of my head, they could do these:
- a book with aquatic campaign rules (including ship-to-ship combat).- a book building on the mass combat and kingdom rules from Kingmaker.
- a book featuring rules on balancing monstrous PCs.
- more monster books!
Also, there was a post by James Jacobs somewhere where he listed a large number of topics that they could do in the future, or that he would like to do in the future.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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iim more curious to know what these products are that JJ has said they already have lined up for 2012 cause right now I'm drawing a blank at what they could do for the general game. There's always gonna be stuff for Golarion, but idk what else besides psionics, the ultimates, and epic you can do for the main game.Off the op of my head, they could do these:
- a book with aquatic campaign rules (including ship-to-ship combat).
- a book building on the mass combat and kingdom rules from Kingmaker.
- a book featuring rules on balancing monstrous PCs.
- more monster books!Also, there was a post by James Jacobs somewhere where he listed a large number of topics that they could do in the future, or that he would like to do in the future.
- Art of Pathfinder, pin ups of Sean as Sajan, Jodi as Amri and Jenny as Seoni.
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iim more curious to know what these products are that JJ has said they already have lined up for 2012 cause right now I'm drawing a blank at what they could do for the general game. There's always gonna be stuff for Golarion, but idk what else besides psionics, the ultimates, and epic you can do for the main game.We do far more products than just those for the general game, first of all.
Second of all: 2012 is the 5th anniversary of the Pathfinder RPG and the 10th anniversary of Paizo. We're not planning on letting those dates slip by without some pretty exciting and crazy releases!
i understand that, i was talking about the main game fr PF. but the majority of the people it seems to me (although im not one of them) is that they are looking for core game stuff. as far as that goes im all out of ideas, but thats why i dont work for you :P
i know there a crap ton of stuff to put out for Golarion, but from what ive seen not a lot of people that like it get on the forums. most people on here i would guess just like taking some of the material and adding it to their own world, which is fine, but i dont see them buying too many Golarion specific products. but i may be wrong. im all for whatever you guys put out and will buy it due to that it is expertly crafted and well put together. and the world is like no other so im definately all in on anything about Golarion (may i suggest a lost cities 2 book please?)
There are lots of ideas in This thread.
Comparing the development of Golarion's lore and expansion to 3E Forgotten Realms is a bad idea. 3E Realms had a large quantity of material to build from, novels and 1E/2E material already written. As much as people want a full hardcover, starting out smaller and building from there makes sense. I'm sure when they announce all of the related Jade Regent products (by PaizoCon at the latest) there will be at least one book in each main line. If all of that leaves people still clamoring for more, they'll add more stuff to the future schedule.
I would rather Paizo pace themselves and have a really good 64 page setting book than try to overextend themselves and write a substandard hardcover.
There are lots of ideas in This thread.iim more curious to know what these products are that JJ has said they already have lined up for 2012 cause right now I'm drawing a blank at what they could do for the general game. There's always gonna be stuff for Golarion, but idk what else besides psionics, the ultimates, and epic you can do for the main game.We do far more products than just those for the general game, first of all.
Second of all: 2012 is the 5th anniversary of the Pathfinder RPG and the 10th anniversary of Paizo. We're not planning on letting those dates slip by without some pretty exciting and crazy releases!
i understand that, i was talking about the main game fr PF. but the majority of the people it seems to me (although im not one of them) is that they are looking for core game stuff. as far as that goes im all out of ideas, but thats why i dont work for you :P
i know there a crap ton of stuff to put out for Golarion, but from what ive seen not a lot of people that like it get on the forums. most people on here i would guess just like taking some of the material and adding it to their own world, which is fine, but i dont see them buying too many Golarion specific products. but i may be wrong. im all for whatever you guys put out and will buy it due to that it is expertly crafted and well put together. and the world is like no other so im definately all in on anything about Golarion (may i suggest a lost cities 2 book please?)
Yeah, I know. Look at who wrote the first post ;-)
Comparing the development of Golarion's lore and expansion to 3E Forgotten Realms is a bad idea. 3E Realms had a large quantity of material to build from, novels and 1E/2E material already written. As much as people want a full hardcover, starting out smaller and building from there makes sense. I'm sure when they announce all of the related Jade Regent products (by PaizoCon at the latest) there will be at least one book in each main line. If all of that leaves people still clamoring for more, they'll add more stuff to the future schedule.
I would rather Paizo pace themselves and have a really good 64 page setting book than try to overextend themselves and write a substandard hardcover.
Just to add to this don't forget that:
1. WotC never did an Forgotten Realms OA book.
2. A majority of the the Hard Cover FR books were 160 pages and somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% crunch.
3. The rules need for fantasy Asia are going to be in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic.
We've already "held" back on Jade Regent for 2 years. It was originally going to be our third AP, then our 5th one. We've pushed it back each time BECAUSE we couldn't support it with the books we wanted to support it with, which was growing increasingly frustrating for me (and for a lot of eager customers who've known Jade Regent was in the works—it was originally publicly announced at Paizocon 2 years ago, but we DID hold it back and that caused a fair amount of confusion).
At this point, the momentum building for Jade Regent is too vast to stop. It takes several weeks to build an outline for an AP (Jade Regent, for example, has an outline that's about 18,000 words long), and MONTHS for authors to write them. We've had folks writing Jade Regent adventures since last November. We've got a sketch for the first cover in already.
The upside of this is that you can pour all your acquired knowledge and experiences of past AP's into this one. I am very much looking forward to it, especially since you already mentioned that it will be very heavy on the interaction with NPC's. After Serpent's Skull, which seemed a bit heavy on the dungeon side of things in its latter parts, I am very much anticipating AP's which will focus more on the roleplaying aspect, instead of the dungeon delving. :)
Oh, heck, I wasn't talking about this thread, just commenting in general about how the fans and foes seem to come creeping out of the woodwork for those three topics. Besides, a desire for Far Eastern material draws nowhere near the ire that a desire for epic material draws, from what I've seen.Yeah I'm not going to pretend I haven't said stuff I now regret in a rather heated thread on epic vs psionics (and by extension Vudra). For what it's worth I have no special love for Oriental games. I just like settings. It could have been Arcadia or Casmaron and I'd still prefer it to new rules. I've barely scratched the surface of the APG so I'm sorted for new options for a while. As I appear to be in the minority though I'll try to accept it with some grace.
I'm completely indifferent to the whole OA thing, personally; I just like having variety.
The main people whose point of view I understand are the Adventure Path subscribers who complain when non-core material shows up (same is true for modules, I guess) that they don't have the books for.
I don't agree with them, since I think that sufficient material is provided to cover the gap (but see spoiler below), but I understand their point. I just view it as no different than using material from Tome of Horrors or Advanced Bestiary, which happens all the time, and which keeps things interesting.
In any case, just to get back on track here a little, there are actually things I'd like to see in a Tian-Xia world guide:
- Information for those of us who are not so enamoured of the whole Eastern Culture thing, so that the book isn't just a mass of gobbledy-g%&&. A glossary would be keen :)
- Advice on how to make a location "feel" different. It's the little things that count.
- Rules content. A book of just flavor/background material is nice, but one with rules content to back up the flavor is much better, and it's all the better if we have new things (spells, feats, traits, etc.) that are specific to the area to make it feel different.
- Creatures, especially dragons and undead - what is Eastern culture without dragons? :) And tailored undead are cool as well.
That's just what comes to mind, anyways.
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I'd like to comment on the use of "Tian Xia" as the name for Asia in Golarion. I am currently living in Beijing, CHN as a teacher, and I have seen a decent amount of Chinese culture firsthand. I would like to talk about the idea of China as the center of the world. Their name for China means "middle kingdom" in two senses: that of being between the heavens and earth, and as the center of the civilized world. China didn't go to other nations to negotiate, other nations came to China. There is a cultural and historical belief that China is at the center of everything.
Mosaic mentioned the film "Hero" earlier, and it makes a good point, that several kingdoms of China have used a sort of "manifest destiny" in the form of "Tian Xia", the concept of a united China fulfilling its destiny of being the greatest kingdom in the world.
Therefore, I can absolutely see a fantasy parallel already. The people/country of Tian-Xia might have different names for other countries and peoples that suggest to the outsiders that they are a singular people with different minority groups living with in it. Even if they are totally separate kingdoms (maybe Tian-Shu calls itself Tibet and doesn't acknowledge Tian-Xia as it's capital for example), this will give an obvious idea of Tian-Xia being all of Asia to the outsider. This misconception could be spread back to the Inner Seas where they would quickly become the foreign names for these countries and peoples.
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Yup. I have a VERY good idea of what lines and how many books... as in they're already on our internal schedule. It's not the right time to announce what they are, though.
Just a thought, but you could probably safely list all of those books with their release dates...just use a spoiler tag. Nobody actually hits those spoiler buttons, and you'll probably feel better getting all of that off your chest.
Glad I could help...
Yup. I have a VERY good idea of what lines and how many books... as in they're already on our internal schedule. It's not the right time to announce what they are, though.Just a thought, but you could probably safely list all of those books with their release dates...just use a spoiler tag. Nobody actually hits those spoiler buttons, and you'll probably feel better getting all of that off your chest.
Glad I could help...
+1 none of us every open spoiler tabs so it would be the safest way to tell us all of the Tian Xia products that are coming.
Yup. I have a VERY good idea of what lines and how many books... as in they're already on our internal schedule. It's not the right time to announce what they are, though.Just a thought, but you could probably safely list all of those books with their release dates...just use a spoiler tag. Nobody actually hits those spoiler buttons, and you'll probably feel better getting all of that off your chest.
Glad I could help...
+1 none of us every open spoiler tabs so it would be the safest way to tell us all of the Tian Xia products that are coming.
And if the spoiler-tag was put there by one of the Paizo-people we even try to erase them from our consciousness rather than opening them.
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I really wish Paizo would release a hardcover world guide even if it's by the END of Jade Regent, as opposed to a 64 pages campaign guide, the main reason being that there will be little incentive synergy-wise, to do so later. There won't be another Adventure Path with an asian theme for long time (if at all) after Jade Regent.
Paizo has always been about doing things right, I think this is the best compromise, we all know the region deserves a long treatment, even if it comes somewhat late during the AP.
Having vague information on Tian Xia allowed me to insert a kingdom on that continent which one of my players' characters call home. A land of vulpines (normal medium sized humanoid version of Vupinal Agathion, though to be frank, my player's homebrewed race was concieved considerable far earlier than the Bestiary 2) that draw inspirations from the samurai culture of Feudal Japan.
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why are all the countries called Tian-this, Tian-that, sounds a bit silly
[Wild speculation] It's quite possible that they're only called 'Tian-' to the major power that deals with the West. For example, if Tian means 'land' the nations might be called 'land of the garlic eaters' 'land of the dwarf like people' 'land across the water' etc.
So Tian-Xia might mean 'Land of the True People' and Tian-Jo (for example) might mean 'land of the uncultured' The people of Tian-Jo call their land 'Kage' and themselves 'People of the shadow' They call Tian-Xia 'Arishi' which might translate as 'people who have overstated opinions of themselves'[/Wild Speculation]
I like this wild speculation of yours.
Tien-everything makes me feel like the area is pretty darn homogenous, and I think I'd prefer for one 'Tien' land to be as different from another 'Tien' land as Cheliax is from Osirion.
On the other hand, the nitpicking about what a samurai or ninja is or isn't (or those darned katana) has gotten me to the point where I less and less want Tien Anything to be even remotely faithful takes on Japan, China, Korea, etc. any more than the Linnorm Kings lands are a faithful take on Scandinavia or Taldor is a faithful take on post-Rennaisance Italy or Andoran is colonial America.
The less overt 'this is Cambodia, this is Sumatra' going on, the less real-world crap will get bandied about as 'proof' that it's
'wrong.' I've never given a rat's butt that the Paladin (or Cavalier)are not accurate representions of the Peers of Charlemagne or the Knights of the Round Table, and I don't see any non-racial-stereotype-pandering reason why any 'Tien' classes or archetypes need to be 'accurate' representations of (real, fictional or 'popularly conceived') ninja, samurai, silla, etc.
On the other hand, I love all the India stuff being compiled over on the Vudra thread, so, yes, I'm a complete hypocrite... Doh!