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You don't need huge ammounts of Wisdom, in any case you get extra advantages for each disadvantage, works ok.So whats the advantage of the inquisitor?
To crush his enemies, to see them driven before him, to hear the lamentations of their women.
Judgements are rather strong, especially when combined with spells like divine power or his bane ability. Unlike cavaliers, paladins or guide rangers, he gets his bonuses against every opponent. Unlike the barbarian or the bard, he isn't limited by rounds. He also gets lots of skill points, utility spells and domain abilities. The inquisitor is a rather solid class.
And if the inquisitor has MAD, how about the cleric? At least the inquisitor doesn't need lots of charisma or intelligence since he can use wisdom for some skills.
What about teamwork feats?
I had a problem with teamwork feats for a long while. It seemed that for a class to devote six instances of benefits to things that rarely worked in my group was a bit silly (I was an honorable melee combatant, half of us were spell casters in the back ranks, and no one up front, either of us, used a shield). Only about three of them ever were really useful. I found more though in the cavalier's Creed PDF that really helped at least for my hunter image. Thing that I had to remember was that even if your image is one capable of being a lone wolf the game is set for a group activity and you are rarely ever alone. I am keeping my eye out for expanded material on the cavalier and Inquisitor and am hopeful that Ultimate Magic will be a great help.
As titled. It seems to suffer from MAD(since you need str, dex, con and wis).
Why does an inquisitor need dexterity? (Any more than a fighter, that is?)
the teamwork feats work for the inquisitor without his allies having them which is a nice perk. The fighter has the armor training which gives him good reason to have more Dex, where as the inquisitor has access to spells that increase his AC for him. Yes he has to meet the prerequisites but a 13 dex isn't "MAD" it's just good policy.
MAD classes get a bad rap because, at a glance, it seems you can't have optimum scores in ALL relevant stats. But, if you look closely, you'll find you can have at least adequate scores.
An Inquisitor does not need quite as much Str as a Fighter. What he lacks in hit and damage, he can make up for with Judgments and Bane. A 14 will do. A 16 would be nice if you can afford it, but a 14 will do.
A Fighter, SAD as he is, needs 10-12 Dex. For an Inquisitor, with medium armor, it's more like 12. Spells can help with AC too. A 14 Dex would be nice, but 12 is enough.
With favored class bonuses, Con is less of a problem than it was in 3.5. With clever use of spells and good combat tactics, an Inquisitor could squeak by with only 12. Even more so than Dex, a 14 would be really nice, if only to free up your favored class bonus. You could put Con at 13 and bump it to 14 at level 4. I usually prefer to raise a 15 to a 16 rather than a 13 to a 14 whenever possible, but let's make Con a 13.
With 6 skill points and bonuses to Knowledge, a Inquisitor doesn't need Int. If I played a Human, I could dump Int down to 7 without a second thought (other than, perhaps, RP concerns). Assuming non-Human, though, let's make in an 8.
Being only a 3/4 caster, an Inquisitor needs less Wis than a Cleric or Druid. With slower spell progression and MAD, spells with saves are better avoided than to try to make up for poor saves with a high Wis. As such, an Inquisitor could feasibly start with a 13 Wis and bump it to 14, but we're doing that already with Con, and any caster with a 13 main stat makes me uncomfortable, so let's go with 14.
Inquisitors have no class abilities and only a few skills that are based on Cha; one of which she gets a bonus to. Cha can be totally dumped. 7.
Tally that up and it comes out to only 9 points. With a 15 point buy that gives you 6 points to play with. You could raise Con or Dex to 14, you could raise Str or Wis to 15 for a bump a level 4, or you could raise Int and Cha if you don't like dump stats. With a 20 point buy, you could do all of these things, and that doesn't even include racial bonuses.
...< his walk thru of stat placement for an inquisitor>...
Really nice thoughts there, Quantum Steve. I myself have an alergic reaction to stats below ten. But, even I can see the value of an eight Int for an inquizzie. I like how you showed your reasoning for each attribute. Would be a good start for a guide. Thanks
Greg
Higher AC and attack bonuses than the fighter almost all the time past like, level 8.
It suffers from the same ability cramming that the alchemist does-- it gets an ability every level, and spells. (A rogue sometimes gets just sneak attack dice, or a rogue trick-- an alchemist always gets sneak attack dice or a rogue trick as well as one extra spell or new spell level). The inquisitor is the same way.
As a result, it's extremely powerful if you choose the correct feats, teamwork feats, spells and equipment.
ie, I can get a better to-hit than the fighter, do equal damage on high-priority targets, and have an AC cresting 40 at level 9 without spending more than three feats and 2/3rd of my allotted 9th level gold. The only thing the fighter will be better at than me is fighting mooks, since I won't use my unique 3/day or 9 rounds/day abilities on them.
How on earth can you pull 40 ac at level 9... ExplainHigher AC and attack bonuses than the fighter almost all the time past like, level 8.
It suffers from the same ability cramming that the alchemist does-- it gets an ability every level, and spells. (A rogue sometimes gets just sneak attack dice, or a rogue trick-- an alchemist always gets sneak attack dice or a rogue trick as well as one extra spell or new spell level). The inquisitor is the same way.
As a result, it's extremely powerful if you choose the correct feats, teamwork feats, spells and equipment.
ie, I can get a better to-hit than the fighter, do equal damage on high-priority targets, and have an AC cresting 40 at level 9 without spending more than three feats and 2/3rd of my allotted 9th level gold. The only thing the fighter will be better at than me is fighting mooks, since I won't use my unique 3/day or 9 rounds/day abilities on them.
14 Dex (2)
~ +2 belt of dexterity (1)Breastplate. (6)
Heavy shield (2)
Dodge (1)
Shield Focus (1)
Judgment, protection (2)
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (1)
Shield of Faith (3)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (2)
Magic Vestment, shield (2)
Magic Vestment, breastplate (2)
10 + 2 + 1 + 6 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 2.
That's 35. Combat expertise should put you at 37 if you needed to be. (added vestment bonuses twice in my napkin math)
At 12 you're around 39, though. +1 from an amulet going up, +1 from shield of faith increasing to +4, +1 from vestment twice.
EDIT: Very demoralizing for my Serpent's Skull character who is resting on a fantastic 23 AC at the same level. ><
Would a repeating crossbow be useful?
Only slightly more than shooting yourself in the foot.
I GMing Legacy of Fire. I took the iconcs in the back of the book and came up with an average of the point buy used to build them. Then, I gave my players that many points: 12 pt builds.
They do have a six member party (most sessions). But the more experienced players in the group were 1) certain that 12 pt. builds would be impossible to survive with and 2) certainly classes with more than one ability needs would be unplayable.
The rookies were not phased by the point buy requirement, and as a result we have a both a Monk and an Inquisitor and even an experienced player chose a Cavalier.
Since this thread is about the Inq. The player ended up with a 12 point-buy Half-Orc Inquisitor with the following array:
Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 13
Int: 12
Wis: 13
Cha: 10
They are not awesome stats. But I say all this to say, they don't have to be. Seems like many people are used to playing with 20 pt. buy on average. My party of players are challenged, but no one so far is inept. And the monk happens to have shined the most of the 6. So this "conventional wisdom" that certain classes are unplayable unless one has a certain point-buy -- to me it just doesn't float.
Why, i thought pathfinder was re-balancing 3.5, making the useless stuff useful, etc?
All except exotic weapons -- those are for suckers for the most part -- unless it's a paizo built or dwarven weapon, then it goes the other way.
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Why are inquisitors awesome?
Wide Brimmed Floppy Hats...
Seriously though there's very little they can't do competently. Skills? Check, Good at Melee? Check, Good at Ranged? Check, Decent Healers? Check.
Basically they are a swiss army knife class. Decent at a lot of things, great if you focus. And the flavour is awesome.
For Carrion Crown my players are doing 4 inquisitors, I'm intrigued to see how that will work out.
For Carrion Crown my players are doing 4 inquisitors, I'm intrigued to see how that will work out.
As am I please let keep us informed.
Why are inquisitors awesome?
Wide Brimmed Floppy Hats...
Seriously though there's very little they can't do competently. Skills? Check, Good at Melee? Check, Good at Ranged? Check, Decent Healers? Check.
Basically they are a swiss army knife class. Decent at a lot of things, great if you focus. And the flavour is awesome.
For Carrion Crown my players are doing 4 inquisitors, I'm intrigued to see how that will work out.
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun. Go for the Inquisitors of Caydan Cailean/Asmodeus/Rovagug/Iomedae combo! :D
we have an inquisitor in our level 8 game. basically if it runs he tracks it. if it hides he finds it if it's invisible he knows where it is. he uses a heavy repeating crossbow and seems to have no problems doing damage.
Fallofcamelot has it right. The inquisitor lets you pick what you want to be great at while still being good at most everything else.
I just began running an Inquisitor of Asmodeous. He tracks down individuals who have failed to fulfill the terms of contracts with agents of Asmodeous. He tracks them down, slays them, wipes the blood off of his blade with their contract, burns it (Fire Domain) then uses the ashes when crafting his armor and weapons. So much fun!
with a high enough strength you can use a composite longbow. which is on the inquisitors base weapon proficiency list. worshipping Zon-Kuthon gets you the spiked chain. especially awesome in a home game with a DM that uses the 3.5 version. why bother with a crossbow when you can use the composite longbow. even a slingshot is better than a crossbow.
I like the sling over the repeating crossbow -- easier to use, to get and everything.
Spells?
I like the usual, divine favor, shield of faith (to some extent), lesser restoration, acid splash, wrath, see invisibility, spiritual weapon, weapon of awe, arcane sight, dimensional anchor, invisibility purge, magic vestment, greater magic weapon, prayer, righteous vigor, death ward, divine power, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, restoration, and so on.
Basically if it's good for a wizard or a cleric in an "helpful spell" capacity it's probably a good choice for the inquisitor.
Quicken spell might be useful at later levels -- you do have a lot of good spells to quicken.
Ranged is actually your best option in my opinion. As an Inquisitor you get a lot of bonus damage on your attacks like bane, judgement, divine favor, ect. These bonuses favor making as many attacks a round as possible, which is exactly what you get with ranged combat.
That is not to say that melee is by any means a bad choice for the Inquisitor as I believe it to be one of the most versatile martial characters in the game. The Inquisitor I'm currently playing is sword and board after all ;)
So any suggestions for feats, spells, etc?
I figure with a repeating crossbow and a shield he can fire it while closing to melee.
Ranged still doesnt seem really viable though, since it doesnt scale much(a bow that does 1d8 is just going to do 1d8...a sword that does 1d8 will do bonus damage based on strength).
I thought the conventional wisdom on these boards is that archers as longish distance attackers made up for fewer bonuses by virtue of getting more rounds of full attack than their melee counterparts. Do remember that depending on the situation/level you may be able to overcome the DR of most enemies with your judgment especially if you invest in some cheap-ish material based arrows a cheaper option than the melee type who has to buy multiple weapons or a +5 to overcome the DR of virtually any enemy. Slashing will be an issue for an archery based inquisitor the rest shouldn't be too tough.
composite longbows add strength bonus to damage. Also with bows take point blank shot precise shot and rapid shot. With a strength bonus you get 1d8 + strength bonus+ point blank shot within 30 feet and two attacks at level 3 if you are a human and take point blank and precise shot at level 1.
So any suggestions for feats, spells, etc?
I figure with a repeating crossbow and a shield he can fire it while closing to melee.
Ranged still doesnt seem really viable though, since it doesnt scale much(a bow that does 1d8 is just going to do 1d8...a sword that does 1d8 will do bonus damage based on strength).
last night my friend shot his heavy repeating crossbow for 28 damage at level 8 with one shot, it seems to scale fine. he could probably do more but his inquisitor spells are all set up to make sure people can't run from him rather than damage.
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Ranged characters get Deadly aim which is roughly in line with Power attack in terms of ramping up power.
At 5th level it's fairly easy for a ranged character to be doing 2 attacks per round instead of one, they are doing +4 bonus damage from deadly aim and the inquisitor character is probably using his bane ability for an additional +2d6 damage.
The place where the ranged character wins is the fact that they are almost always one attack ahead and for an inquisitor who does a lot of bonus damage with bane and deadly aim that is pretty huge.
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Uhhh doesnt a heavy repeating crossbow do 1d10+absolutely nothing damage? So if he were to power attack with a 2 handed weapon he would have done more than 28 damage when you factor in his buffs.
Not that I'm in his group but a single attack from an inquisitor with a heavy might look like this:
1d10+Deadly Aim(4)+Bane Bonus(2d6+2)+Weapon Bonus(+1) (Flaming)+Judgement(2)Average:
5.5+4+9+1+2.5+2 = 24 Avg
If he had a Holy crossbow it goes up from there.
Edit: For what it's worth heavy crossbow is actually not that great because you have to invest a ton of feats to get rate of fire up. A halfling slinger (using the warslinger racial trait from the APG) with a 14 strength will typically do as much damage as the heavy crossbow guy.
Composite Longbow is still king and the cost of getting one is trivial once you get past 3rd level or so.
the point in most cases is an rp thing. crossbows are simp,e weapons, so you can arm thousands with them
however in this case were talking repeating heAvy crossbow 4 attacks a round at lvl 9 which sadly runs into an ammo problem :p
Why, i thought pathfinder was re-balancing 3.5, making the useless stuff useful, etc?All except exotic weapons -- those are for suckers for the most part -- unless it's a paizo built or dwarven weapon, then it goes the other way.
*checks d20 PFSRD*
Didn't notice the dwarven chain (I only buy hardcovers). Cool, in my setting several dwarven clans are slavers so it fits very well. But IMHO is not at the level of the falcata. It cannot be the new spiked chain because is not a trip weapon. Kaiyanwang is displeased. :(
BTW, one could argue about the fact that maybe only weapons like these are worthy of the feat (I mean, is not that meteor hammer or falcata are overpowered, are other exotic weapons not that cool).
Said this, I noticed that among my players the amount of falcatas is disturbingly increasing :D
(sorry for the derail)
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If your strength is less than 10 or you don't have proficiency with a bow then you are better off with a crossbow, in almost all other cases you are better off with a longbow (or for halflings a sling now).
If you are using a low point buy (15 or less) then it becomes slightly more balanced as the strength bonuses will drop a lot.
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The Pathfinder Wiki has a list of the deities with brief descriptions. It also lists the deities by domain.
Other than that "Gods and Magic" has a lot of good information on the deities and each second and fifth AP volume has an article on a different deity (usually one related to the content of the AP).
*checks d20 PFSRD*
Didn't notice the dwarven chain (I only buy hardcovers). Cool, in my setting several dwarven clans are slavers so it fits very well. But IMHO is not at the level of the falcata. It cannot be the new spiked chain because is not a trip weapon. Kaiyanwang is displeased. :(
Odd, but the meteor hammer seems to imply that it can be used against adjacent opponents but doesn't specifically state this is the case...that said, if you can attack adjacent opponents it makes the 3.5 spiked chain look like a child's plaything...
If you want the old spiked chain back however, try a bladed scarf (damage was never the point anyway). I'll admit that the cheese factor increases even further but you do get the mechanic we all know and love back ;)
(once more, sorry for the derail)