So rather than piss and moan about how his stats suck and how the 3d6 in order system blows, why not contribute something helpful as was requested?
Can we just cite your post of "math" as evidence that the 3d6 system blows?
|
I'm laughing at all the trolls here crying that this character is BELOW AVERAGE. Come on people, take some math! The OP rolled 3d6 6 times. As any school child knows, the most common result for 2d6 (remember Monopoly?) is 7, which tells you that 3d6 should average about 10.5. Actual knowledge of statistics confirms that the average is precisely 10.5. ;)
While the OP's character may have stats vastly below the characters most of you play in your own games, his rolls are actually ABOVE AVERAGE for the character generation method his group is using.
So rather than piss and moan about how his stats suck and how the 3d6 in order system blows, why not contribute something helpful as was requested?
Personally, I'd go Dwarf Druid. Should be great for the wilderness-based Kingmaker campaign.
S: 12
D: 8
C: 17
I: 10 (swapped Int and Wis)
W: 15
Ch: 7Get a bada$$ tiger or bear, maybe take Toughness so you live longer, then focus on healing and buffing with an occasional Entangle thrown in. Or take the Boon Companion feat to increase your effective Druid level for purposes of adding bonuses to your animal companion.
Good luck with your game! As long as you don't have some uber characters in your party or some uber suck characters in your party, it should be a lot of fun.
QFT. Someone that gets it.
What character could be created from these stats?
Level 1
Kingmaker Campaign
Race:
Class:STR 12
DEX 8
CON 15
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 9The only two stats I'm allowed to swap around are INT & WIS.
I would play a human brevoy noble son who believe is more competent and brighter than he really is bragging a lot hence is low charisma. Use the rich parent trait, buy yourself a good armor, and you should have ton of fun. You can also try to go for optimization, but then you'll start complaining like everyone else that your stats are too low.
I would play a human brevoy noble son who believe is more competent and brighter than he really is bragging a lot hence is low charisma. Use the rich parent trait, buy yourself a good armor, and you should have ton of fun.
Another good character idea. This is why I roleplay instead of just playing chess. I'm not out there to win or to beat anyone, just to play something fun and interesting. Just sayin.
Or take the Boon Companion feat to increase your effective Druid level for purposes of adding bonuses to your animal companion.
- That only adds up to your hit dice: in other words its good for rangers and multiclass druids.
I would play a human brevoy noble son who believe is more competent and brighter than he really is bragging a lot hence is low charisma. Use the rich parent trait, buy yourself a good armor, and you should have ton of fun. You can also try to go for optimization, but then you'll start complaining like everyone else that your stats are too low.
Oh please, cut the passive aggressive crap. Your suggestions looks to me to be specifically tailored to arrange for him to start off with really good armor - something that those *gasp* dirty optimizers might do!
Oh please, cut the passive aggressive crap.
Hostile much?
He's not the only one.
He is the only one I noticed using such harsh terms in a post. Most of the others, while having clear opinions, didn't seem to go quite to that level. Perhaps I overreacted to the "oh cut the crap" comment though. To me, that seems unnecessary.
And "hostile much?" was said in a completely non-emotional way without using quasi-profanity, if you were referring to my post.
He's not the only one.He is the only one I noticed using such harsh terms in a post. Most of the others, while having clear opinions, didn't seem to go quite to that level. Perhaps I overreacted to the "oh cut the crap" comment though. To me, that seems unnecessary.
And "hostile much?" was said in a completely non-emotional way without using quasi-profanity, if you were referring to my post.
Actually my comment was kind of aggressive. I'm just easily pissed off by people who believe that nothing is good unless they say so.
@Cartigan: using the rich parent trait fit the character concept, but I agree is optimizing, but it doesn't mean buying the best armor suit just because you can, it can help to get other stuff a rich kid could have as fine clothing, a good armor and weapon so he can brag about how is better than anyone else.
He's not the only one.He is the only one I noticed using such harsh terms in a post. Most of the others, while having clear opinions, didn't seem to go quite to that level. Perhaps I overreacted to the "oh cut the crap" comment though. To me, that seems unnecessary.
And "hostile much?" was said in a completely non-emotional way without using quasi-profanity, if you were referring to my post.
(Neutral Inquiry) Any you guys play'd Mass Effect 2,(Honest Suggestion) maybe you should all be using Elcor speech patterns and predicate your sentences with an emotional context.
(Sad Realisation) Although people who take offense on forums would probably still take offense to your pretexts
(Neutral Inquiry) Any you guys play'd Mass Effect 2,(Honest Suggestion) maybe you should all be using Elcor speech patterns and predicate your sentences with an emotional context.(Sad Realisation) Although people who take offense on forums would probably still take offense to your pretexts
Out of topic
I did this a few years ago with some friends of mine over msn instead of using the smileys. It was a pretty fun way to express ourselves, but we got tired of the additionnal typing we had to do.
(Neutral Inquiry) Any you guys play'd Mass Effect 2,(Honest Suggestion) maybe you should all be using Elcor speech patterns and predicate your sentences with an emotional context.(Sad Realisation) Although people who take offense on forums would probably still take offense to your pretexts
Out of topic
I did this a few years ago with some friends of mine over msn instead of using the smileys. It was a pretty fun way to express ourselves, but we got tired of the additionnal typing we had to do.
Certainly makes me wish you didn't have to pay to use the sarcasm piuncuation those folks made.
Late, but I like to play this game. I like the dwarf druid, but an Elf Wizard maybe?
Stats would look like this.
STR 12
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 15
WIS 10
CHA 9
I know people want a higher int for Wizard but he could do pretty well with this actually; by the time he really needs it he can boost spells with spell focus feats, boost his int stat leveling, and get some Int boost items... and/or focus on spells that don't need saves. Conjurer, Transmuter, or Universalist would all be good.
Gotta say though, it's stat rolls like this (and ones that are all 17s and 18s) that make me insist on point buy when I run my own games, despite the other problems that point buy pose.
I would put the 13 in wisdom. take human race
put the +2 in con then level him up alternating fighter and cleric levels until it maxes out the spell casting capability of the wisdom score
I would focus on armor/hit point feats that way you could stand in to take some heat off of the main fighter and you have some emergency healing to boot.
I sometimes dream that I will get into a 3d6 down the line game, roll six 3s in a row, breaking down all barriers of possibility and officially playing the worst PC in the universe.
I would try to get him to 20. I'd play a Wizard or Sorceror so my HP would start at 3.
That Wizard statline there looks good. Conjurer with that would not be bad at all; Transmuter focused on group support could be even better.
I sometimes dream that I will get into a 3d6 down the line game, roll six 3s in a row, breaking down all barriers of possibility and officially playing the worst PC in the universe.
I would try to get him to 20. I'd play a Wizard or Sorceror so my HP would start at 3.
That Wizard statline there looks good. Conjurer with that would not be bad at all; Transmuter focused on group support could be even better.
heheh save for the fact you can't cast spells with a 3 in your casting stat ;)
|
First off, Wow! Thank you all for taking the time to offer up your thoughts, suggestions and opinions on my request. I appreciate each and every one of you, yes even you.
I've gathered some more info on a couple of the other party members:
Gnome Alchemist
Gnome Druid - Animal Companion Cheetah
Human Barbarian or Ranger - maybe, its still up in the air.
Me - ??
I've asked my GM for copies of the points from the other players and will update if I get them.
I may choose to build a character to balance out these, remember the campaign is the Kingmaker
Everyone is an avid Gamer in my group, we all have years of experience and have side project games in other realms like Fantasy Craft, Gamma World (Where Character generation is two D20's and you could be a cockroach!). Which have completely different rule systems and are just as fun to play.
Secondly, both systems of generating stats whether they're 3D6 or Point buy are valid. You all make valid points regarding both systems.
The campaign I am currently in we did the point buy system (Council of Thieves) <- tons of fun, I recommend it highly. We're at level 11 with fully decked out and stat'd characters and we're just mowing through encounters. Our GM has even upp'd the Challenge rating on several fights and its been close, but thats also what makes it fun.
I like to think that my guy will have to rise to the occasion. He's not the class validictorian, but he's not having to repeat the grade either! :)
Instead of smashing through encounters head on we'll have to think a little more and utilize stealth/tactics.
james maissen, asked, "What materials are allowed?" Between us all, we have all the books available for Pathfinder as well as a ton of other books, but I'm trying to stay within the realm of pathfinder, so core rulebook, APG, Companions, Chronicles, etc.
I've gathered some more info on a couple of the other party members:
Gnome Alchemist
Gnome Druid - Animal Companion Cheetah
Human Barbarian or Ranger - maybe, its still up in the air.
Me - ??
Your group is lacking a good healer, unless the druid is planning to fill that role, you may want to switch wis with int and go for a cleric.
You could play it as a man with some kind of difformity or handicap. Looking for acceptance he decide to devote his life helping others.
the Kingmaker bastard trait combined to child of faith, would let you be a noble child that was given to church care because he has some horrible difformity. The church was to never revealed the parents identity in exchange of a huge monatary donation to the church.
You could play it as a man with some kind of difformity or handicap. Looking for acceptance he decide to devote his life helping others.
the Kingmaker bastard trait combined to child of faith, would let you be a noble child that was given to church care because he has some horrible difformity. The church was to never revealed the parents identity in exchange of a huge monatary donation to the church.
This is why I like rolling stats. I like letting the character make itself, and letting ideas spring from the stats. Of course I can form a concept ahead of time and then point buy the exact stats I want so I am as close to the concept as possible, but when I let the dice begin the process I have to change my entire perspective. Suddenly I start formulating reasons for the stats and it helps me visualize the character more.
But to each their own. I know that's just my preference.
I've gathered some more info on a couple of the other party members:
Gnome Alchemist
Gnome Druid - Animal Companion Cheetah
Human Barbarian or Ranger - maybe, its still up in the air.
Me - ??
With that setup, I would probably go elven (human or half-orc would work just as well with the +2 in int) wizard or witch; you end up with a solid casting stat, and all the others would be sufficient enough that the character would at least not be a drag on the party in most situations. Go with buffing and battlefield control spells/hexes, and it would be a good solid character.
What character could be created from these stats?
Level 1
Kingmaker Campaign
Race:
Class:STR 12
DEX 8
CON 15
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 9The only two stats I'm allowed to swap around are INT & WIS.
...
I've gathered some more info on a couple of the other party members:
Gnome Alchemist
Gnome Druid - Animal Companion Cheetah
Human Barbarian or Ranger - maybe, its still up in the air.
Me - ??
You will probably fit best in this party as a battlefield controller. Additional healing would also be useful.
Human Witch
12 Str, 8 Dex, 15 Con, 15 Int, 10 Wis, 9 Cha; all advancements in Int
Use the alternate favored class option to gain an additional spell to your familiar each level. Mage armor should be one of your initial 1st level spells to help your AC.
Good hexes include Cackle (especially in combination with Evil Eye and/or Fortune), Cauldron (although it may overlap too much with the alchemist), Evil Eye, Fortune, Healing, Slumber (even with the "low" Int, the DC scales reasonably well; can be used the round after using Evil Eye to give a -2 on saves), and Ward. A fox (+2 Reflex saves), scorpion (+2 Initiative), or weasel (+2 Reflex saves) might be your best familiar choices, although raven (+3 Appraise checks, speak one language) and toad (+3 hit points) can also suit some concepts. Good patrons include Agility (for cat's grace and the staple haste), Endurance (concept; some good buffs), Plague (for a darker character; command undead may also be useful, as the party otherwise may have difficulties vs. undead), and Strength (concept; bull's strength and greater magic weapon can be useful).
Because there is a lot of down time in Kingmaker, magic item creation feats can be very useful, as well as the Hedge Wizard trait. Take the Extra Hex and Scribe Scroll feats at 1st level, Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level, Craft Wands at 5th level, and Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 7th level and the party will have plenty of useful magic items as the campaign progresses.
I'm going to have to say +1 on the whole witch thing.
Half-Orc could be really cool, elf or human is great.
It's really not a bad character at all...
See? What did I say.
Yah, this at least does highlight why some people really dislike the organic 3d6 "Hand of God" stat creation system. Those other two set of rolls from other players gives them many, many more options for character creation.
Good luck, OP, hope you enjoy the game. (And I'm being genuine... not snarky here.)
Yah, this at least does highlight why some people really dislike the organic 3d6 "Hand of God" stat creation system. Those other two set of rolls from other players gives them many, many more options for character creation.
And yet are still below 10 pt buy.
There's a lot of 'stop having fun guys' from both sides in here.
Tangent:
This is actually something I've been trying to figure out. How do you buy a 5 or 6 under point-buy? The table shows that you can't buy under a 7. And since you can't buy anything below a 7, how do you assign it a point-buy-value?
|
Tangent:
This is actually something I've been trying to figure out. How do you buy a 5 or 6 under point-buy? The table shows that you can't buy under a 7. And since you can't buy anything below a 7, how do you assign it a point-buy-value?
Somehow you would have to continue the progression of the chart. Since it seems to double as you go, 6 would be -8, 5 would be -16. That seems too much to me, so looking at the prices for higher scores, I'd go with gradual increases, starting with 2 and then 3. So 6 would be -6, 5 would be -9, 4 would be -12, 3 would be -15. Even that might be a bit much, it would take some fiddling. Not that I would ever allow someone to point buy their score so low.
You can extrapolate mathematically:
18 : 17
17 : 13
16 : 10
15 : 7
14 : 5
13 : 3
12 : 2
11 : 1
10 : 0
9 : -1
8 : -2
7 : -4
From this we can see that for each step moved away from 10, the cost increases by the bonus of the value moved to (minimum 1).
So it follows that below 7, the costs are:
6 : -6
5 : -9
4 : -12
3 : -16
Even stopping at 7 leaves them below 10 points. (all calculated before racial bonuses and penalties)
I'm late to the party, but these aren't really bad scores:
STR 12
DEX 8
CON 15
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 9
3d6 mean score would be 10.5, with a standard deviation of about 2.9; the scores he rolled average to 11.17. Three of his rolls are above average including one high roll outside of a standard deviation above mean. He has no rolls beyond a standard deviation below mean. He could easily do worse.
This coming from a 0e guy who played the 3d6 method for years but who now allows 20 pt. buys.
|
|
You will probably fit best in this party as a battlefield controller. Additional healing would also be useful.
Use the alternate favored class option to gain an additional spell to your familiar each level. Mage armor should be one of your initial 1st level spells to help your AC.
Good hexes include Cackle (especially in combination with Evil Eye and/or Fortune), Cauldron (although it may overlap too much with the alchemist), Evil Eye, Fortune, Healing, Slumber (even with the "low" Int, the DC scales reasonably well; can be used the round after using Evil Eye to give a -2 on saves), and Ward. A fox (+2 Reflex saves), scorpion (+2 Initiative), or weasel (+2 Reflex saves) might be your best familiar choices, although raven (+3 Appraise checks, speak one language) and toad (+3 hit points) can also suit some concepts. Good patrons include Agility (for cat's grace and the staple haste), Endurance (concept; some good buffs), Plague (for a darker character; command undead may also be useful, as the party otherwise may have difficulties vs. undead), and Strength (concept; bull's strength and greater magic weapon can be useful).
A witch eh? Its worth a shot.
As the son of a Brevoy Noble, a father who was strict, soldierly and aloof. Poe's mother who was a little different (i.e. Witch), always seemed to be working in her garden tending strange plants and making odd smelling concoctions in her little stove.
His parents marriage was an arranged marriage and there was little love in the house, though Poe has an older brother and a younger sister.
As a young boy Poe spent many hours playing with his mothers pet fox til one day his father caught him and killed the animal, thus hurting his mother in the process.
His mother became sick and one strange evening she simply disappeared from their home entirely, but her work, her knowledge had been passed down to Poe and it is with these skills that he is now seeking to make his way in the world.
Poe carries a resentment towards his father and knowing that there is not place for him at home, he has set off into the world to make a name for himself.
Name: Poe EA -
Familiar: Raven* +3 bonus on Appraise checks *A raven familiar can speak one language of its master’s choice as a supernatural ability.
Note: I chose a raven for its ability to talk & for the 'touch attack' ability of a flying familiar
Level 1
Kingmaker Campaign
Race: Human
Class: Witch
Gender: Male
HP: D6
The witch’s class skills are Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis),
Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge
(history) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (planes)
(Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic
Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + (2) Int modifier.
STR 12
DEX 8
CON 15
INT 15
WIS 10
CHA 9
Traits:
1) Hedge Magician: You apprenticed for a time to a craftsman who often built magic items, and he taught you many handy shortcuts and cost-saving techniques. Whenever you craft a magic item, you reduce the required gp cost to make the item by 5%.
2) Rich Parents: You were born into a rich family, perhaps even the nobility, and even though you turned to a life of adventure anyway, you enjoy a one-time benefit to your initial finances—your starting cash increases to 900 gp.
Feats:
1) Extra Hex - Gain one additional hex
2) Scribe Scroll Caster level 1st Create magic scrolls
3)
Possible 3rd feat: Armor Proficiency, Light — No penalties on attack rolls while wearing light armor.
Spells: (15 INT = 1 additional 1st lvl spell?)
0:
0:
0:
1: Mage Armor
1:
Hex: DC save is 12
1)
2) Healing (Su): A witch can soothe the wounds of those she touches. This acts as a cure light wounds spell, using the witch’s caster level. Once a creature has benefited from the healing hex, it cannot benefit from it again for 24 hours. At 5th level, this hex acts like cure moderate wounds.
Patron: Elements or Agility
Though, I am wondering about Racial Heritage Feat:
The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.
Its still a work in progress.
What character could be created from these stats?
Level 1
Kingmaker Campaign
Race: Elf
Class: WizardSTR 12
DEX 8 +2 Dex = 10
CON 15 -2 con = 13
INT 13 +2 Int = 15
WIS 10
CHA 9The only two stats I'm allowed to swap around are INT & WIS.
Use the elf stat to boost you Dex penality to 0, Lower your con, and Up your INt to 15. From that point you have high enough INT to be Wizard, and use level increase to Stat to get Int high enought for those 8th and 9th level spell.
Anyway.... only thing i could think off for that stat listing.
Yar!
I'm going to join the camp that says it's fine to play with low stats or even un-optimized stats, and can even be rather fun.
Playing what I want to play regardless of stats, and building character concepts based off of rolled stats is something that I have done before and enjoyed as well.
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + (2) Int modifier.
STR 12
DEX 8
CON 15
INT 15
WIS 10
CHA 9Traits:
1) Hedge Magician: You apprenticed for a time to a craftsman who often built magic items, and he taught you many handy shortcuts and cost-saving techniques. Whenever you craft a magic item, you reduce the required gp cost to make the item by 5%.2) Rich Parents: You were born into a rich family, perhaps even the nobility, and even though you turned to a life of adventure anyway, you enjoy a one-time benefit to your initial finances—your starting cash increases to 900 gp.
Feats:
1) Extra Hex - Gain one additional hex
2) Scribe Scroll Caster level 1st Create magic scrolls
3)Possible 3rd feat: Armor Proficiency, Light — No penalties on attack rolls while wearing light armor.
If you do this and stay a human, unless you switch things out with the APG variants, you get a bonus skill point per level and a bonus feat at 1st level. Those help quite a bit.
~P
Looks like a fun character to play
I like it, it should be a fun character for the others to play off of.
I agree with Pirate on this. I've been playing RPG's for about 27 years and it never ceases to amaze me how many players seem to forget those two words before the word "Game"...Role Playing!
No offense intended, but if a player can't have fun unless they've got a character who can whoop arse in combat, then that player is missing the point in my opinion. I would gladly take those stats and make a totally fun character out of them using just about any class. Sure, every character must have a class, but there's no rule in the game that says the character has to be GOOD at it. Playing a bumbling wizard with a low intelligence or a skinny fighter with a pathetic strength score can be tons of fun. Especially when the character thinks they're awesome.
Except when you die a lot or are completely ineffectual in the game, then it isn't fun at all.
Reminds me of something Sun Tzu said in The Art Of War: "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the epitome of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the epitome of skill."
You know who doesn't negotiate? Angry bears/trolls/zombies/owlbears/evil cultists/etc.
If all you want to do is kill things, go play DOOM.
If all you want to do is role-play, go join an acting troupe.
I understand that in your mind only YOU can be right, but you won't die more or less with stats like these versus uber stats. You dying has more to do with luck of the draw than it does with stats.
I'm quite certain I can mathematically prove to you that I am more likely to live longer with better stats. Well maybe not ME because I'm bad at that kind of math, but SOME ONE can.
I have seen minmax character after character get buzzsawed in my current game group while the guy with a PC created for him (doesn't live and die with a rulebook at his side) constantly goes against what his PC is built for and shines time and time again.
I can only imagine the applicable circumstances.
"Me angry Dwarf Barbarian. Me hate everyone. Me be party face or I punch you until your face ugly like me."Of course, why didn't I expect that to be the best choice.
All of the characters theorized in this thread are not only going to be fun to play, but have just as much survivability and threat potential as an uber statted one. If you look at stats as what they are (percentage points of doing whatever is called for) this guy is 5 or 10% behind an uber stat guy in whatever the player wants to run.
Just so we are clear, a 5 to 10% advantage is a 5 to 10% advantage.
You know, it could be an opportunity for him to flex some roleplaying muscle. Think outside the box. Make it work.
I've played with the equal or worse, it's doable. And fun.
Kids, with their point buys and whatnot. Miss out on all of the fun of making something less than ideal legendary...
I would like to point out that "the ridiculous adventuring companion who is terrible at what he does yet joins our party on our righteous quest to save the world" stretches my suspension of disbelief.
Good roleplayers will be good roleplayers, regardless of their stats. Bad stats don't magically make someone a good roleplayer, nor do good stats make one a bad roleplayer.
It's up to the player. If you're stuck with a bad crowd, forcing them to roll is not likely to help.
Both rolling and point buy have their qualities (even if I'd sooner stick a spike through my skull than play rolled scores again), but neither is the main or even a major determinant in the quality of RP. The difference it makes is so trivial that it pales next to the quality (or lack thereof) of the players themselves