I am currently running a LE Cleric of Urgathoa with the Death and Magic domains, in an Undead-heavy campaign.
By chance, I hit Level 5 and realized that I now have Animate Dead as a bonus spell because of the Death domain. It sounds like a cool spell, and given by the fact that our party is outnumbered by many skeletons of different varieties, having a few skeleton allies of my own could be a little handy for clearing them out.
Given the rules of the Animate Dead spell, I can create up to 10 HD of undead with a single casting, and can control 20 HD over the span of multiple castings. The problem is that I have no idea how to manage the creation of the skeletons, especially since the ones we are currently fighting against were generated by our GM. Would I just be recreating the ones I've just killed, except under my control?
Also, how do I manipulate the skeletons to do what I want? Do they act independently for the most part and thus have their own initiative (allowing me to take advantage of their Improved Initiative feat), or do I have to order them to attack/defend/whatnot on my own turn using verbal commands (which I assume are free actions)?
You cannot make new skeletons out of destroyed skeletons. You could try using other magic or the Command Undead feat to take over the skeletons controlled by your DM.
I was afraid of that; I suppose a skeleton that just got bludgeoned to redeath isn't considered "intact."
Thanks for the in-depth insight though. From what I can see, if I find corpses I can turn into skeletons, I could give them the order to "follow the party and attack any skeletons I do not control," if that isn't overly complicated. Might just have to save this trick for next time.
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Thanks for the in-depth insight though. From what I can see, if I find corpses I can turn into skeletons, I could give them the order to "follow the party and attack any skeletons I do not control," if that isn't overly complicated. Might just have to save this trick for next time.
How do they know which skeletons your character controls?
Thanks for the in-depth insight though. From what I can see, if I find corpses I can turn into skeletons, I could give them the order to "follow the party and attack any skeletons I do not control," if that isn't overly complicated. Might just have to save this trick for next time.How do they know which skeletons your character controls?
That's a good point - they really wouldn't have a way to distinguish any skeleton from another. I would be better off creating zombies instead of skeletons, then I could make the distinction. Being lawful, I suppose I would be stuck with finding a.... "legal" means of getting those corpses.
the one thing i hate about Animate Dead is the costy i hope you have the money and the range
Animate Dead
School necromancy [evil]; Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead)
Range touch
Targets one or more corpses touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Aye, I seem to have overlooked that aspect. I suppose I'll have to save this spell for next time, then. As for my alignment, I'm Lawful Evil, so I don't really have to worry about using it.
sorry about 2 posts but if you do a [evil] spell will that hurt your alignment? if your not evil?
Animate Dead
School necromancy [evil];
That's up to your DM. The same question is often asked about people summoning [evil] monsters with the Summon Monster spells. Just ask your DM where he stands on the issue. Of course, whether or not there are any personal consequences for creating skeletons and zombies to serve you, the common people of most civilizations will react negatively to any undead, even if they're just mindless automatons. I suggest leaving your minions outside town or disguising them as best you can.
Put neat hats on your skeletons and tell them to attack undead not wearing neat hats. Make sure to secure the hats well (such as bolting them to their skulls).
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Okay, without delving into the archives, in your opinion, what are the "goodly" player issues/conflicts (particularly paladins) with my N Gnomish Sorcerer(undead)/Cleric of Urgathoa(undeath&magic) using Animate Dead to create skeletons/zombies to function as cannon fodder for combat or other mundane tasks just as a wizard would use Summon Monster to get some sacrificial trap finders or shock troops?
I'd paint the skeleton's heads red or something to distinguish them.
One other thing to be mindful of, if you ever die, they become mindless, uncontrolled, and hostile to life. If that happens in the middle of a fight things could turn ugly for the rest of the party.
Okay, without delving into the archives, in your opinion, what are the "goodly" player issues/conflicts (particularly paladins) with my N Gnomish Sorcerer(undead)/Cleric of Urgathoa(undeath&magic) using Animate Dead to create skeletons/zombies to function as cannon fodder for combat or other mundane tasks just as a wizard would use Summon Monster to get some sacrificial trap finders or shock troops?
In my opinion, it shouldn't be a problem at all. It's certainly no worse than summoning evil monsters and using them as cannon fodder. Skeletons and zombies are mindless creations. You're not enslaving anyone's soul, suppressing anyone's free will, or taking away anything that belongs to someone else (their spirit has departed their body, leaving it to rot in the ground, it is abandoned property). Now, robbing the local graveyard is certainly a questionable act (and likely to get your character chased by pithfork-wielding mobs), but who is going to care if you animate the corpse of some ogre or other evil creature after you kill it?
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Oh, lots of items for "goodly" issues. It really depends on your dm. If he doesn't like the idea, expect it to be very unefficient. For example, undead creatures are considered an abomination against nature. Creating one then turns you into a defiler of nature and an enemy against those religions.
Similarly, there are lots of religious sects that believe that undead are a holy desecration, which would give them motive to hunt you down.
Tack on to that the fact that animate dead is a necromancy (evil) spell, and creating one can be construed as an evil act, which means that the dm can eventually shift your alignment to NE if, again, he doesn't like the concept.
Some religions believe that disturbing someones body after death denies their spirit entry into the next world. Some believe that honorable death requires burning the corpse immediately. Some believe that mindless undead still have their souls connected to them, screaming into eternity while their bodies commit atrocities.
Ect., ect., ect.,.
Talk to your dm about any extra requirements or concerns he has about a minion-based character. Also, be prepared to irritate your table-mates through extremely long combat rounds. How long did it take your last character to get through a round? Now repeat that by the number of undead under your control :p
Necromancers can be a lot of fun, but they can also blow up in your face. So try to minimize the effect your pets have on other players as much as possible, make sure the dm is down with it, don't forget about leadership for more undead fun, and finally, remember the grappling bonuses for eight zombies pinning a foe to the ground :)
As a side note to the "summoning evil creatures" part, many good aligned creatures do this so that you are not taking a good aligned creature from somewhere it may need to be, instead it is evil vs. evil. Also there was a prestige class in 3.5 where you could use true names to bind demons/devils/etc. this was considered evil even if you used them for good because it amounted to slavery.
Oh, lots of items for "goodly" issues. It really depends on your dm. If he doesn't like the idea, expect it to be very unefficient. For example, undead creatures are considered an abomination against nature. Creating one then turns you into a defiler of nature and an enemy against those religions.
Similarly, there are lots of religious sects that believe that undead are a holy desecration, which would give them motive to hunt you down.
Tack on to that the fact that animate dead is a necromancy (evil) spell, and creating one can be construed as an evil act, which means that the dm can eventually shift your alignment to NE if, again, he doesn't like the concept.
Some religions believe that disturbing someones body after death denies their spirit entry into the next world. Some believe that honorable death requires burning the corpse immediately. Some believe that mindless undead still have their souls connected to them, screaming into eternity while their bodies commit atrocities.
Ect., ect., ect.,.
Talk to your dm about any extra requirements or concerns he has about a minion-based character. Also, be prepared to irritate your table-mates through extremely long combat rounds. How long did it take your last character to get through a round? Now repeat that by the number of undead under your control :p
Necromancers can be a lot of fun, but they can also blow up in your face. So try to minimize the effect your pets have on other players as much as possible, make sure the dm is down with it, don't forget about leadership for more undead fun, and finally, remember the grappling bonuses for eight zombies pinning a foe to the ground :)
+1
First thing that comes to my mind when i see someone Animate the Dead... Necromancer and Evil
Once created, if the caster dies, the animated dead become destroyers of living creatures until they themselves are destroyed.
I have even seen Evil party grumble and complain when about not wanting animated undead around, unless used for short battles.
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In the right party, they can be lots of fun, leads to many adventures, and make things interesting. But check with your GM, and Party about how they see undead being in your party.
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I too think a lot of these issues would be of significance in a party. Additionally, since clerics and paladins can't cast spells with an alignment descriptor opposed to their own, i would also say that a neutral cleric casting evil spells may eventually slide evil. I might keep track of evil spells cast vs good spells cast, to see if...
While I understand this opinion, I do not like it. I do agree that in general, casting an "evil" spell is not a "goodly" act. However, simply casting a spell with the "evil" descriptor does not, IMO, make you evil. The intent and implementation of the spell would do that. If there was a village under the effects of a disease and most/all of their militia was incapacitated, using an undead "army" to hold off the advancing "bad guys" would be a good use of a questionable tool. The "bad guys" might even be the ones who introduced the disease to the village. Another example is the paladin, who is dominated by the BBEG and forced to kill an innocent. While, by rule, he looses his paladin powers and has to atone, it does not require his alignment to change from LG.
My original question is from the perspective of not having a paladin in the party or an anti-undead cleric. I suppose that druid/ranger could have an issue from the "unnatural" perspective, but with a high Charisma and Diplomacy, couldn't the necro convince them it's for the "better good?"
If it's a domain spell and the deity is not evil, then it is an un-evil variant.
A neutral caster must do an equal amount of good to offset the evil.
Any religions sell forgiveness in your game world?
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It's really a table-based decision. Some people think that an evil spell, used for good, counters the stain. Other people think that a good creature performing an evil action for the greater good, can only do so if they're willing to accept the evil hit.
It depends on how into alignments your table likes to get. If you're going to have to convince party characters when their players aren't down with it, I suggest you use some kind of telepathy spell. I know that when one of the players at my table doesn't want another player to use a diplomacy roll on them, they'll have their character avoid that character, and plug their ears or otherwise render themselves incapable of hearing.
The only way at that point to have a diplomatic talk with them is by projecting your arguments straight into their brain :p
I dunno about Pharasma though. I vaguely remember some discussions about that god being explicitly against creating undead. You don't want a *your god smites you* loophole available to your dm :D
Mostly, I discourage minions because they slow down combat rounds and shift more attention to one player. If player one gets 30% more attention each combat round, it can lead to some negative feelings at the table. I'm much more supportive of player b who, while he deals the most damage, does so without eating up more time. I can always toss some encounters and challenges targeted to the other players strengths every now and then to offset the damage dealers.
In my experience though, people care more about attention than damage. Everyone wants the opportunity to shine, and to feel like they contribute equally in some way at the table. Player a running 15 minions, a cohort, and twelve followers just destroys that lol
Actually, probably the best thing to do is when players sit down to make their characters, to ask them to leave their characters as undead-friendly. Then focus on the biggest, baddest undead you can make, and call it an ediolon. Who's gonna know? :)
The spell Animate Undead is not just listed as (evil).
The Skeleton or Zombies Undead themselves are also evil.
Many DM are too forgiving when letting people use this spell. Give the player a warning that this is an evil spell. Using once or twice, might not shift there alignment, but 5 time or more should.
(Many will argue over this, but like i said, sick and tired of players treating alignment as a loophole.)
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If caster dies, undead become free willed, and go on a rampage to kill all living animals, including the party members.
If the necromancer does not hide them, there will be social problems. If he does hide them, when there is logistics on were they are, how to get to them, and when or if he can use them in some setting (like the city).
Any Good cleric or paladin (other than the party members) will look at cleric as evil..... if the party is with him, then they will be suspected of being evil as well.
Any non-evil cleric or paladin in the group will have there bosses come down on them, if they find out that thy are hanging out with a Necromancer. After all the paladin is tarnishing his name (and his orders reputation) at the very least being with him, even if he is using the undead for a good reason.
You could have a Voodoo priest.
They worship ancestral spirits as gods, or spirit gods that ride people to talk with the living.
A priest of Papa Legba is not going to get smited for using an ogre skeleton to fight the good fight.
It has to be an intact corpse to turn it into a zombie. It can be either for a skeleton - the flesh just drops off.