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This question came up in another thread and it seems several GM's allow this, I am just curious as to how many do. For interest's sake I have started a poll (expires in 7 days):
you know, I never asked.
But as the feat doesn't state that it can be taken multiple times, I strongly doubt it can be taken multiple times...
This is PF general. I assume it's about PF unless stated otherwise.
What thread did this come up in? Could you link it?
Greg
@Howie23 Yep, I can see that as a posibility if the thread refered to started in 3.5discussion or elsewhere. I voted based on Pathfinder game.
Oh, and I voted "no". Don't allow it in my game, and have not seen it allowed in games I play.
Greg
i really wish it was but in the games i play the answer is no, i personally liked back in 3.5 taking toughness as often as i could and taking improved toughness with it when it came out in the complete worrier but unfortunately my DM says no.
Honestly I don't really have a problem with it. PCs would rarely stack toughness (offense being better than defense in most cases) but it would be useful for advanced creatures as adding some more HPs is a relatively easy change to a statblock. In contrast adding more substantive feats to an advanced monster will probably provide more "bang for the buck" but will make them harder to GM.
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As others have pointed out, according to the rules, you CANNOT take it more than once. The feat would actually say "this feat can be taken more than once; its effects stack" or something like that.
So ... to be clear ... are we talking about different groups' house rules here or are we actually trying to fugure out if the rules allow it?
No
Other then for really high HD monsters who have feats to burn, is their an advantage to taking this multiple times? I get taking it once to add a nice squishy buffer for your casters (especially in 3.5 where they had a d4 HD) but now it seems like just a waste of feats?
The main advantage I can see is for the Summoner class. Grab Endurance and Diehard for the Eidolon (then whatever feats you want), and load up on Toughness for the Summoner every time. Don't even bother with any stats other than Con (With 15 PB, you should easily be able to get 20 Con and 14ish Cha by dumping Str and keeping other stats low). Now you have 20 HP at level 1, 44 HP (average rolls) at level 3, 81 HP at level 5 (average rolls, +2 Con item), 119 HP at level 7 (average rolls), and 161 HP at level 9 (average rolls).
Why is this good? Thanks to Diehard, your Eidolon will not drop until it is banished, and you can serve as a battery for the Eidolon's health if a blow would banish it. Eidolons are good at dealing damage but are balanced due to being glass cannons--in my playtests and games, CR appropriate encounters tend to take the Eidolon from full health down to negatives after one full attack.
After all, at level 9, the Eidolon will have 47 HP if you don't make it Large, or 61 if you do. A Fighter at that level would usually have at least 81 (that's with 14 Con, and no selections of Toughness), and a raging Barbarian should have at least 109.
However, as above, the Summoner with all Toughness has 161, and since the Eidolon has Diehard, that's essentially like saying that the Large Eidolon has 222 HP to single target attacks (worst case scenario, if the enemy uses AoE and hits both Eidolon and Summoner every single time, the Eidolon still has 111 effective HP).
Yes, the Summoner doesn't get any other feats, but the Summoner as-written in the APG doesn't necessarily get as much use out of many feats as you might expect (and there aren't any good Summoner-only feats--the one in the APG is awful). Giving the Eidolon that much of a survivability boost is well worth any other feat selection for the Summoner.
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That said--barring a lifelink situation where one character can act as a damage soak for another, taking tons of instances of Toughness is not going to be problematic.
i believe her is asking how many people here play in groups that do allow it to stack (as a house rule) or would allow it to stack (as a house rule) in their own gaming groups.
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The PF version just once, but we allow:
"Toughness [General] (Source: Book of Experimental Might II)
You are tougher than normal.
Benefit: You receive additional hit points just as if you had gained a level (that is, you gain hit points equal to your Hit Dice + your Constitution modifier; see Chapter Four of The Book of Experimental Might). You always gain at least 3 hp, no matter what.
Special: You may gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.
Fighter Bonus Feat: Starting at 13th level, if you took this as a fighter bonus feat, Toughness grants you an additional 10 hit points.
Boosted: You may reroll one Fortitude save.
Design Note: This feat differs from the version in the Core Rules to make it attractive to characters of any level."
...to be taken multiple times. But nobody in our group has taken either version even once.
No, the RAW is clear.
The OP appears to be trying to determine how commonplace a house rule it is. It smells of 3.5 passover to me.
Sorry for some of the confusion folks. The poll was intended to query its use in Pathfinder. I have changed it now to reflect that.
I was not aware (forgot) that in 3.5 you could take it multiple times (I haven't played 3.5 for over 2 years), so I guess that is likely why some GM's are using it also in PFRPG (even though the benefits have changed).
I was trying to decide if I should create an option to allow for the toughness feat to be selected multiple times in my character generator, and when I did a search I found several Pathfinder and 3.5 edition threads refering to people taking it multiple times. (The 3.5 posts now make sense to me).
Anyways, I am curious to see how many GM's allow this in Pathfinder. Personally, I don't find this option to be too over-powering if allowed to be selected multiple times, and I may even consider this for the next campaign I run.
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This question came up in another thread and it seems several GM's allow this, I am just curious as to how many do. For interest's sake I have started a poll (expires in 7 days):
Technically, in our game, you'd be allowed to take Toughness from Pathfinder Core and Improved Toughness from Player's Handbook II. :) If you *really* wanted to take either (or both) Feats repeatedly, you might be able to (can't think of a reason to disallow it), but it's never been done.
Hell, nobody's ever taken either feat since we started playing Pathfinder, though I did plan it late into a progression for my last character. Maybe it'll find it's way into this one. *shrug*