Not only that, but it does nothing for the debate to make snarky comments about a poster rather than arguing the post itself, making it stand on its own merit, regardless of the source.
+1,000
And if you really want to neutralize a guard dog, bring along a b@*+! in heat ansd let her go within scent of the dog. He's totally out of the picture. 'Course if they are smart enough to use b$#+&es as guard dogs, you're SOL. Just another of the many ways a creative and effective rogue can deal with difficult circumstances.
And if you really want to neutralize a guard dog, bring along a b!%*% in heat ansd let her go within scent of the dog. He's totally out of the picture. 'Course if they are smart enough to use b!%*%es as guard dogs, you're SOL. Just another of the many ways a creative and effective rogue can deal with difficult circumstances.
A properly trained guard dog will ignore all interference. If you are invading "Fortress Moron, home of the thugs, ruffians, and other foolish brutes" then just bring along a steak or 3.
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And if you really want to neutralize a guard dog, bring along a b~#~! in heat ansd let her go within scent of the dog. He's totally out of the picture. 'Course if they are smart enough to use b~#~!es as guard dogs, you're SOL. Just another of the many ways a creative and effective rogue can deal with difficult circumstances.
C'mon guys don't pick on the poster.+1. Look at it this way: even if half of what he says doesn't apply to your personal games, the other half isn't thereby invalidated. On the contrary; I usually find it insightful and useful, despite the clipped tone.Not only that, but it does nothing for the debate to make snarky comments about a poster rather than arguing the post itself, making it stand on it's own merit, regardless of the source.
And if you find that you're seeing the same old rhetoric from a specific person, don't respond to it.I'm kinda seeing the light myself on this point.
Yes, you are correct. Time for me to lay off.
And if you really want to neutralize a guard dog, bring along a b!%*% in heat ansd let her go within scent of the dog. He's totally out of the picture. 'Course if they are smart enough to use b!%*%es as guard dogs, you're SOL. Just another of the many ways a creative and effective rogue can deal with difficult circumstances.A properly trained guard dog will ignore all interference. If you are invading "Fortress Moron, home of the thugs, ruffians, and other foolish brutes" then just bring along a steak or 3.
I'm not sure it is even possible to train a dog to that level of stoic dutifulness. From my own personal experience any male dog is completely distracted whenever they are within sight/scent of a b+##% in heat. If off the chain/unattended, they will chase the b~&#@ and/or mount her (and don't even try to get them off before they finish unless you want to get bitten). If chained or held, they will whine and pull, ignoring all else, for as long as she is visible/within scent range, and probably for a while after. We're talking instinctive reaction that is hard-wired into the dog. Very difficult to override. I would hazard that a dog trained to that level would be more than CR 1, because it would also likely have other training and skills/feats.
All this isn't to say that guard dogs are not a significant obstacle to a low-level thief. They are, without a doubt. They aren't an auto-lose, though.
Never, ever, underestimate Lassie.
And if you really want to neutralize a guard dog, bring along a b~#~! in heat ansd let her go within scent of the dog. He's totally out of the picture. 'Course if they are smart enough to use b~#~!es as guard dogs, you're SOL. Just another of the many ways a creative and effective rogue can deal with difficult circumstances.Relevant to the discussion.
Even country singers know a few things about how to deal with guard dogs!!
So does Michael Vick.
What? Too soon?
So does Michael Vick.
What? Too soon?
Oh snap!
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I'm not sure it is even possible to train a dog to that level of stoic dutifulness. From my own personal experience any male dog is completely distracted whenever they are within sight/scent of a b~*%! in heat. If off the chain/unattended, they will chase the b~*%! and/or mount her (and don't even try to get them off before they finish unless you want to get bitten). If chained or held, they will whine and pull, ignoring all else, for as long as she is visible/within scent range, and probably for a while after. We're talking instinctive reaction that is hard-wired into the dog. Very difficult to override. I would hazard that a dog trained to that level would be more than CR 1, because it would also likely have other training and skills/feats.And if you really want to neutralize a guard dog, bring along a b!%*% in heat ansd let her go within scent of the dog. He's totally out of the picture. 'Course if they are smart enough to use b!%*%es as guard dogs, you're SOL. Just another of the many ways a creative and effective rogue can deal with difficult circumstances.A properly trained guard dog will ignore all interference. If you are invading "Fortress Moron, home of the thugs, ruffians, and other foolish brutes" then just bring along a steak or 3.
Actually, they addressed this on Mythbusters. If I remember correctly, the dog, even a well trained drug or bomb sniffing dog will be distracted by a female in heat. This is the reason that law enforcement has a policy of removing all other dogs from the area before searching it.
1. Accept reality.. in a fantasy world?
2. So, by law, wizards and sorcerers need two-handed weapons to hit things?
3. What if the Rogue makes his stealth check and the dog doesn't hear? Let's add in the fact the rogue is down-wind of the dog.
1. The reality of what the rules actually say, vs. what you might play.
2. Sorcerers and wizards don't need to hit things at all.3. See #1; there are no rules for wind direction defeating scent.
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1. Accept reality.. in a fantasy world?
2. So, by law, wizards and sorcerers need two-handed weapons to hit things?
3. What if the Rogue makes his stealth check and the dog doesn't hear? Let's add in the fact the rogue is down-wind of the dog.1. The reality of what the rules actually say, vs. what you might play.
2. Sorcerers and wizards don't need to hit things at all.
3. See #1; there are no rules for wind direction defeating scent.
1. Says the guy who changed just about every rule for his games. I like your work by the way.
2. Situational. Scroching and Polar ray. Evocation, I know, but those are still decent spells.3. I'm arguing on the Internet.
Says the guy who changed just about every rule for his games. I like your work by the way.
Well, yeah, but there are reasons I did that, and some of them are the same reasons that CoD is talking about. And thanks!
3. I'm arguing on the Internet.
Point taken! I shall leave you to it.
1. Accept reality.. in a fantasy world?
2. So, by law, wizards and sorcerers need two-handed weapons to hit things?
3. What if the Rogue makes his stealth check and the dog doesn't hear? Let's add in the fact the rogue is down-wind of the dog.1. The reality of what the rules actually say, vs. what you might play.
2. Sorcerers and wizards don't need to hit things at all.
3. See #1; there are no rules for wind direction defeating scent.
3. If there aren't, I'm fairly sure there used to be. Or at the least making it harder to use scent.
He doesn't have a headstart because the dog pursues immediately. He doesn't have a spear because he is the only class in the game not required by law to use a two handed weapon if he ever intends to hit anything, therefore he does not have a two handed weapon and instead dual wields.
But what about my Half-Orc with a Longspear that is detected 40 feet away from the dog? I both have a head start and a spear.
Is there a way to remove a dot once you have one?
I was being partially serious.
The Rogue sneaks past the dog because it's thematically appropriate? Why have a dog?
For the rogue to sneak past. I agree; why have a dog then if it's impossible for the rogue to sneak past him?
For the rogue to sneak past. I agree; why have a dog then if it's impossible for the rogue to sneak past him?I was being partially serious.
The Rogue sneaks past the dog because it's thematically appropriate? Why have a dog?
I don't know if you are being facetious or not getting it.
Is there a way to remove a dot once you have one?
What are being this "dot" you speak of?
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For the rogue to sneak past. I agree; why have a dog then if it's impossible for the rogue to sneak past him?I was being partially serious.
The Rogue sneaks past the dog because it's thematically appropriate? Why have a dog?
A better question is why is it impossible for the rogue to sneak past them. The scent ability specifies that you have to be within five feet of the dog before it can pinpoint your location. Therefore, the dog will either wait until it is sure that it can locate the intruder or it will bark at any unfamiliar scent that crosses within 30 ft of it. However, since a rogue will likely be able to see the dog before it can smell him, there is no reason that it would be impossible for the rogue to avoid being in the range of the dogs abilities.
A better question is why is it impossible for the rogue to sneak past them. The scent ability specifies that you have to be within five feet of the dog before it can pinpoint your location. Therefore, the dog will either wait until it is sure that it can locate the intruder or it will bark at any unfamiliar scent that crosses within 30 ft of it. However, since a rogue will likely be able to see the dog before it can smell him, there is no reason that it would be impossible for the rogue to avoid being in the range of the dogs abilities.For the rogue to sneak past. I agree; why have a dog then if it's impossible for the rogue to sneak past him?I was being partially serious.
The Rogue sneaks past the dog because it's thematically appropriate? Why have a dog?
Which is largely being ignored here. The rogue should simply find a way in not guarded by a dog.
This thread is about ROLES, not DOGS. Please get back on track everyone.
Also, meteor swarm is a LOT better than it used to be. Resist energy made it worse than fireball in v3.5. Now anyone using resist energy against it is going to die a horrible painful death.
Also, meteor swarm is a LOT better than it used to be. Resist energy made it worse than fireball in v3.5. Now anyone using resist energy against it is going to die a horrible painful death.
QFT. Rogues are a lot better than they used to be too - better hit dice, sneal attack affects more things, rogue talents ... and they don't need two handed weapons either: weapon finesse and a rapier has always worked for me. Lots of hits, lots of sneak attack goodness!
Oh, and scent is effected by wind.
This thread is about ROLES, not DOGS. Please get back on track everyone.
Very much so. Although I'm currently playing a rogue in a Kingmaker game and having a lot of fun with it (sneaking past guard dogs, hitting things with my one-handed rapier and all that stuff CoDzilla says is against the law, but hey, I'm a rogue!) because it was a role in the party that needed filling.
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Which is largely being ignored here. The rogue should simply find a way in not guarded by a dog.A better question is why is it impossible for the rogue to sneak past them. The scent ability specifies that you have to be within five feet of the dog before it can pinpoint your location. Therefore, the dog will either wait until it is sure that it can locate the intruder or it will bark at any unfamiliar scent that crosses within 30 ft of it. However, since a rogue will likely be able to see the dog before it can smell him, there is no reason that it would be impossible for the rogue to avoid being in the range of the dogs abilities.For the rogue to sneak past. I agree; why have a dog then if it's impossible for the rogue to sneak past him?I was being partially serious.
The Rogue sneaks past the dog because it's thematically appropriate? Why have a dog?
Dog has 6 hit points. Scent only works out to 15 ft if you approach from where the wind is blowing toward you.
Sneak attack is good to 30 ft. Problem solved.
Rogues are good scouts for a few reasons, not just one. First, lots of skills mean they can sneak up without being seen, and if they are seen run away and hide. Second, you want your rogue able to attack in the surprise round while the enemy is flatfooted and subject to the extra hit dice.
At least if you use strategy in your game...I know crazy concept right, not just running in, standing in front of the bad guy going "pew, pew, pew!"
Back on topic, roles depend on the group. Sometimes no one is a good scout in the group, and so the party has a weakness in this area. Sometimes everyone is quiet and sneaky and the group can infiltrate using stealth maneuvers. Roles aren't as important as party synergies.
In my mind, "roles" are a fantastic tool to allow everyone to feel useful. You get to do something that will help the party, and do something no-one else can. However, I can see that not all people enjoy all roles equally. Personally, I detest being the skill-monkey. If the party lacks trapfinding, I usually make a wizard, and just spend a trait to get disable device and pick up Cosmopolitan to get Disable Device and maybe a sense motive. Can't remove magical traps with disable, but dispel magic can.
But there is something that makes me wonder: If your super-special snow-flake character doesn't fit in with what the party need, and muscles in on something they already cover, can you give me a decent in-game reason for an existing party to hire you instead of a person they need?
Oh, and scent is affected by wind.
What direction is "upwind"? DM fiat? Downwind? DM fiat? In which case that isn't a rule, it's a note that says "DM can apply modifiers at will." A fair DM would roll a d8 for direction, but that's not in the wind rules as written.
Oh, and scent is affected by wind.What direction is "upwind"? DM fiat? Downwind? DM fiat? In which case that isn't a rule, it's a note that says "DM can apply modifiers at will." A fair DM would roll a d8 for direction, but that's not in the wind rules as written.
Bah! A good DM stats out every part of the campaign world, including standard air currents and weather patterns, and this information should be available to PC's with appropiate reason. Any character with ranks in Survival, Knowledge Geography, or Profession Meteorologist should be able to predict such things. And it shouldn't be decided on the spot. That would be unfair.
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Bah! A good DM stats out every part of the campaign world, including standard air currents and weather patterns, and this information should be available to PC's with appropiate reason. Any character with ranks in Survival, Knowledge Geography, or Profession Meteorologist should be able to predict such things. And it shouldn't be decided on the spot. That would be unfair.Oh, and scent is affected by wind.What direction is "upwind"? DM fiat? Downwind? DM fiat? In which case that isn't a rule, it's a note that says "DM can apply modifiers at will." A fair DM would roll a d8 for direction, but that's not in the wind rules as written.
Also not in the rules as written.
Also not in the rules as written.Bah! A good DM stats out every part of the campaign world, including standard air currents and weather patterns, and this information should be available to PC's with appropiate reason. Any character with ranks in Survival, Knowledge Geography, or Profession Meteorologist should be able to predict such things. And it shouldn't be decided on the spot. That would be unfair.Oh, and scent is affected by wind.What direction is "upwind"? DM fiat? Downwind? DM fiat? In which case that isn't a rule, it's a note that says "DM can apply modifiers at will." A fair DM would roll a d8 for direction, but that's not in the wind rules as written.
Do people still use those silly things?
A good DM stats out every part of the campaign world, including standard air currents and weather patterns, and this information should be available to PC's with appropiate reason. Any character with ranks in Survival, Knowledge Geography, or Profession Meteorologist should be able to predict such things. And it shouldn't be decided on the spot. That would be unfair.
My game world actually does have prevailing winds determined by the planet's rotation and Coriolis, and topography determined by geology and plate tectonic history, and climate/terrain that reflects the latitude, altitude, prevailing winds, and geographical features.
But then again, I'm a geologist.
A good DM stats out every part of the campaign world, including standard air currents and weather patterns, and this information should be available to PC's with appropiate reason. Any character with ranks in Survival, Knowledge Geography, or Profession Meteorologist should be able to predict such things. And it shouldn't be decided on the spot. That would be unfair.My game world actually does have prevailing winds determined by the planet's rotation and Coriolis, and topography determined by geology and plate tectonic history, and climate/terrain that reflects the latitude, altitude, prevailing winds, and geographical features.
But then again, I'm a geologist.
That's truly pretty awesome. Also I'm about halfway through your rule set. Nice. I think I have a bit of a man-crush on you now.
Can I point out that, regardless of if you can kill the dog or hide from the dog again or what, the fact that the dog sees you in the first place means it's going to start barking, thus ruining the stealth attempt, which in turn makes the whole "stealth entrance" a failure?
I mean, what you do after being discovered doesn't really matter if the goal was to not get caught in the first place.
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Can I point out that, regardless of if you can kill the dog or hide from the dog again or what, the fact that the dog sees you in the first place means it's going to start barking, thus ruining the stealth attempt, which in turn makes the whole "stealth entrance" a failure?
I mean, what you do after being discovered doesn't really matter if the goal was to not get caught in the first place.
If the dog sees you first, which is the point.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception
To sneak attack, you want to get within 30 feet without being seen or smelled. If you upwind, you can get within 15 feet before it smells you.
And you get a +1 for every 10 feet you are away from the dog.
Every class would deal with the problem differently. Some may want the guards drawn to the bottleneck of a door. It's all about solving the presented problem.
The dog is just one problem.