An interesting discussion came up in the "How many items have been submitted" thread that diverged from that topic and I think needs its own topic.
So here it is.
The question is, what items are wondrous items and what items are armor or rods or rings.
The wondrous items list in the book sure includes a few items that are weapons--rod of lordly might, maul of the titans, etc.
One of the ways to get DQ'd is to not submit a wondrous item. But when is a wondrous item a weapon or a rod? Why is a helm of brilliance a wondrous item and not armor?
So here is a good place for that discussion, since I dont think the title of the thread it was happening in would give people notice that the topic was being discussed therein.
See that thread, then read on.
To be clear:
Head Gear is an item slot, not a category in it self.
Actually all headgear items are also Wondrous Items.No one should be discouraged from submitting head gear items.
Agreed. In fact, one of the most rad and most iconic wondrous items of all time is the helm of brilliance.
The real question is primary purpose, in my mind. The helm of brilliance is not so much armor as a powerful decorative head piece.
Let me give you an example. Let's say I submitted this:
Cloak of hidden death
Aura strong aura of coolness; CL 12th
Slot It's on my back, baby; Price 9,999 gp; Weight 4 lbs.
Description
This cloak appears as a normal cloak which (in keeping with Sean's favorite) billows mysteriously as if an unseen wind was blowing. Despite its mundane appearance, the cloak hides 4 magical and concealed hand crossbows. On the speaking of a command word (standard action), the cloak pulls back, revealing the four crossbows (two on each side), which all may make attacks at the wearer's ranged attack bonus doing 1d4+1 damage each. The wearer may target up to 4 different targets within range of 30 ft. Any target failing a Will save DC 20 is so surprised by the revealed crossbows that she is considered flat footed for purposes of attacks against her. Bolts fired from the magical crossbows evaporate in 4 rounds. The four attacks must all be made at the same time and cannot be held or delayed and if not used are lost. The cloak may be activated up to 3 times per day, but no more than once every 4 rounds as the magical crossbows need to reload and they do so slowly.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, magic missile, invisibility; Cost 4,500 gp
(Yeah, I just pounded that out off the top of my head and is all jacked up, its just an example).
So let's discuss my cloak. Is it a wondrous item? Well, cloaks are pretty traditional wondrous items, so on the one hand maybe it is. But really, this is just a weapon. It is really just some special effects applied to a concealed reapeating crossbow with limited uses and multiple shots per round.
I can't say this is "clearly" a weapon, but this is the kind of wondrous item that is going to get the judges asking if this is a weapon or a wondrous item. Don't be that guy.
Clark
Cloak of hidden death
Aura strong aura of coolness; CL 12th
Slot It's on my back, baby; Price 9,999 gp; Weight 4 lbs.
Description
This cloak appears as a normal cloak which (in keeping with Sean's favorite) billows mysteriously as if an unseen wind was blowing. Despite its mundane appearance, the cloak hides 4 magical and concealed hand crossbows. On the speaking of a command word (standard action), the cloak pulls back, revealing the four crossbows (two on each side), which all may make attacks at the wearer's ranged attack bonus doing 1d4+1 damage each. The wearer may target up to 4 different targets within range of 30 ft. Any target failing a Will save DC 20 is so surprised by the revealed crossbows that she is considered flat footed for purposes of attacks against her. Bolts fired from the magical crossbows evaporate in 4 rounds. The four attacks must all be made at the same time and cannot be held or delayed and if not used are lost. The cloak may be activated up to 3 times per day, but no more than once every 4 rounds as the magical crossbows need to reload and they do so slowly.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, magic missile, invisibility; Cost 4,500 gp
Dear Orcus,
One cloak plus four crossbows makes five items by my maths (unless I've just had a paladin for lunch and am feeling somewhat light-headed in consequence in which case it may be seven, twelve, or five hundred and thirty eight). Also PFRPG hyphenates 'flat-footed', and you didn't return my calls after the last 666 demonic ball. Auto-reject, I'm afraid....Hoping that you have found this post Helpful.
Yours,
Ask A Succubus.
Okay, here is the example of an item I was talking about earlier so I decided I would just post it here for this discussion. Thank you Clark.
This is a rough draft of an item idea I had that I discarded due to the fact that my gaming group thought it was a weapon. I agree this does get close to, maybe even crosses that blurred line, between weapon and wondrous item and hence has been discarded by me for this competition.
Trinkets of the Pirate Queen
Aura faint transmutation & faint conjuration; CL 11th
SlotWrist; Price 15,000gp (+1), 27,000 (+2), 47,000 (+3), 75,000 (+4), 111,000 (+5); Weight 1 lb.
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DESCRIPTION
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This finely crafted set consist of a single skull and crossed swords earring made of bone and black onyx, as well as a pair of shining silver bracers with gold etching depicting skull and crossbones. This set requires all three pieces to bring out their magic.
As a move action, you click the bracers together, causing the black onyx swords to disappear from the earring and appearing in the wearer’s hands as normal sized twin onyx blades. Both are +1 to +5 scimitars and these specific swords are considered light weapons if used together and for the purpose of the two weapon fighting feat. When the wearer of the set clicks the bracers a second time the twin onyx swords vanish from the wearer’s hands and reappear on the earring underneath the skull.
----------------------
CONSTRUCTION
----------------------
Requirements: : Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Permanency, Shrink Item, Teleport Object;Cost 7,500gp (+1), 13,500gp (+2), 23,500gp (+3), 37,500gp (+4), 55,500gp (+5)
This shows how easy it is to cross the line between weapon and wondrous item, no matter how cool it may seem.
Yep I seen that and was thinking the same thing Charles. The point is though it is easy to cross from weapon to wondrous item. The best way to avoid this issue is to create a wondrous item that doesn't involve weapons which is a easy thing to do.
Not saying creating an item like the armor storing gem or the weapon item I posted isn't a viable option for sometimes pushing the limits is what it takes to make a Superstar. Just be prepared if the judges see your item as something other then a wondrous item.
Sometimes taking risk leads to great rewards but if you are like myself and this is your first attempt at Superstar it may just be easier to avoid the pitfalls that were pointed out.
Either way have fun with this contest, be polite but don't avoid voicing your opinion for they should always be welcome even if you don't agree with them all the time. Most importantly HAVE FUN!!!
This shows how easy it is to cross the line between weapon and wondrous item, no matter how cool it may seem.
That's not actually crossing any lines, though. It's both a wondrous item AND a magic weapon, just like the Maul of the Titans. The rules say that what you submit must be a Wondrous Item; they never say that it can't ALSO be a magic weapon.
Unless I'm missing something? WOULD the judges reject a Maul of the Titans as a rule violation of some kind?
(Edit: rereading your item, it looks like you could be saying that the item really shouldn't be a wondrous item as it does nothing to justify the "Craft Wondrous Item" requirement- it isn't that different from glamored armor and should probably just be a weapon. Which is a good point)
There are also a lot of Wondrous Items which aren't magic weapons at all (i.e don't require Craft Magic Arms and Armor to make), yet still can be used to attack. Some of them even function as weapons. The whip feather token actually creates a whip with the dancing property, but that's not really a magic weapon; it's only a temporary creation if the item, just like the crossbows in Clark's cloak, or the +5 shiruken in a Robe of Stars.
This doesn't mean these are GOOD wondrous items, though; that's all up to the judges. But having a weapon-like effect, or even being an actual weapon, doesn't mean they stop being wondrous items.
Here's my take:
If the item in question winds up being interpreted as something almost everyone would choose as their primary weapon over a sword or a bow (and so on), then the item is more of a weapon than a wondrous item. If it just so happens to include the ability to be used as a weapon, but that's not its primary purpose and won't eclipse every other magic weapon in the game so that it becomes a PC's preferred means of attack, then it's more wondrous item than weapon.
It's a very fine line. And, if someone pulls off walking that line with a really neat, innovative idea that just happens to incorporate an added ability to use the item as a weapon...more power to them. They might just have Superstar potential. But if they push it too far and make the item's whole purpose nothing more than a weapon "cloaked" (ha, I pun!) as a wondrous item, I don't think that represents Superstar potential quite as much.
For an example of an item that's made the Top 32 (in the very first year) which also incorporated being useful as a weapon, examine the malleus maleficarum by Alexander MacLeod (a two-time competitor in RPG Superstar and Top 4 finisher last year).
Just my two cents,
--Neil
... more wondrous item than weapon ...
Okay, I suddenly get the feeling that I've been reading the entire topic too literally. It sounds like this is more like the Carapace Demon issue last year; still TECHNICALLY a creature (and not running afoul of any rules), but seen as not being a good one because its primary roll was something else.
Well put Neil like usual, I couldn't have explained it better.
Like Neil stated "it's a very fine line" and easy to brush up against or even cross and totally understandable if someone submitted an item the judges deemed not a wondrous item but a weapon.
What Noteleks said. :)
It's hard to put your finger on what a good wondrous item IS, but what it isn't (IMO) is a bog-standard beatstick.
Trinkets of the Pirate Queen
I would look at this item as "is this really any different than a sword that has the power to turn into a bracer"? A sword that turns into a bracer is clearly a weapon, not a wondrous item. The only reason I could justify your item being listed as a wondrous item is that it requires the earring and the bracers... but that's a very dubious justification considering that the only purpose the earring and bracers have is to link themselves to that specific pair of swords.
"My shield turns into a hat, therefore it's a wondrous item rather than armor" isn't a satisfactory argument. Likewise, "my hat turns into a shield, therefore it's a wondrous item rather than armor" isn't a good argument, either. Especially as the hat (or the bracers/earring set) don't do anything at all except turn into something else.
If the item were a pair of bracers that let you cast blade barrier once per day, or you could expend that power once per day to let you turn them into swords for a limited duration, sure, I'd see that as a wondrous item. But as written, there's no reason not to keep the item in swords form all the time because the item doesn't do anything as a bracers/earring set other than turn into swords. Thus, IMO, the primary form and purpose is as a pair of swords, and everything else is just a disguise mechanism for those swords. Thus, it's a weapon, not a wondrous item.
Thus, it's a weapon, not a wondrous item.
So, what you're saying is, it's..."a weapon in disguise"...?
It's gotta be a Decepticon!
:-D
"Autobots! Transform and roll out!"
Thank you Sean, that is why you are king in my book. Also why a good group is invaluable as a sounding board in this specific competition. For an outside observer sees things in a different light and gives you a fresh take, that you as the creator may miss. As my gaming group did with this item in pointing out that it may actually be a weapon not a wondrous item.
That is also why this thread started by Clark is so informative and helpful.
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How do we differentiate wonderous items from other categories of items that have been developed by Paizo? One of the comments I received last year was that my item was really a fleshcraft item. To which I responded "Huh, what's a fleshcraft item and how is that different from a wonderous item?"
Are there any categories of items that are not wonderous items other than the ones in the core rule book (i.e., weapons, armor, potions, wands, rods, staffs, scrolls)?
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Are there any categories of items that are not wonderous items other than the ones in the core rule book (i.e., weapons, armor, potions, wands, rods, staffs, scrolls)?
Artifacts, creatures, spells, class abilities, monster abilities, traps, afflictions, haunts .. All sorts of different elements might evoke a possibly-supernatural effect from a physical focus, without really being a standard magic item, therefore not a wondrous item. edit: Perhaps that's a different topic.
A fair question Sebastian. So to answer your question I went to the core book and under wondrous item it reads "This is a catch all category for anything that doesn't fall into the other groups."
The other groups as listed in the core book are as follows:
Armor
Weapon
Potion
Ring
Rods
Scrolls
Staves
Wands
Hope this answers your question. If not Starglim gives some good examples also.
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Artifacts,
Hard to identify, but it is another category of item, and should've been included in my list of core rules categories.
creatures, spells, class abilities, monster abilities, traps, afflictions, haunts
None of those are items. There's probably some grey in creatures and traps (e.g., the living armor item submitted last time), but that strikes me as a different issue. Plus, other than afflictions and haunts, the other items in the list are also part of the core rules.
The concern isn't about designing something that exists in another format under the core rules - it's designing something that's somehow been carved out from wonderous items by some supplement. In the case of fleshcrafting items, it was originally hidden away in a volume of Second Darkness.
Sebastian, after reading your item it sounded more like a creature, that imparted magical effects to the host, then an item. Hence why they stated it was fleshcrafting item not a wondrous item. I personally would of stated it was a creature not an item but then that is me.
Either way I like the concept behind it, it just needed to be tweaked a bit more. Hitting on the fleshcrafting concept wasn't a bad idea.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Sebastian, after reading your item it sounded more like a creature, that imparted magical effects to the host, then an item. Hence why they stated it was fleshcrafting item not a wondrous item. I personally would of stated it was a creature not an item but then that is me.
Either way I like the concept behind it, it just needed to be tweaked a bit more. Hitting on the fleshcrafting concept wasn't a bad idea.
I appreciate the feedback, and maybe you've hit on the answer - if it's a creature, even if it operates like a wonderous item, it's not technically an item and doesn't fall into that class. I'm trying to think if there are any core rules wonderous items that break that rule, and the only thing I'm coming up with is the figurines, which aren't really the same.
It's actually a pretty simple concept when you frame it like that. I'd been thinking that fleshcrafting items were a subset of wonderous items because wonderous items is a catch-all category. Now I see that fleshcrafting items are another class altogether because they use living creatures instead of items.
Thanks Noteleks.
Glad I could help, outside eyes looking at your item from a different perspective can never hurt. Good luck this year.
This is the wondrous item I created and rejected for submission, fearing it came too close to crossing the weapon/armor/item line. Let me know your opinions: does it cross the line? is it even worthy of the contest? Thanks! (And FYI, it's 295 words!) In my own opinion, it is a wondrous item, albeit one that also functions as armor and a weapon.
Aura: faint transmutation. CL: 5th. Slot: Feet. Price: 27,100 (23,035 with discount). Weight: 3 lbs. each boot.
Description:
A very rare example of a magical cooperation between elves, dwarves and gnomes, these magical masterwork boots are endowed with a permanent pass without trace effect. Additionally, twice a day, the wearer can mentally invoke one of the following powers upon himself: +10 to Stealth, +10 to Survival (each lasting ten minutes per caster level), cat’s grace, jump and longstrider. Dwarf and gnome artisans studded each leather boot with mithral and fashioned a hidden spring-loaded mithral claw (hardness 15, 10 HPs) in each toe, which extends and retracts with a toe clench. These claws grant a +3 bonus to Climbing checks, and can be used in melee as if a masterwork dagger, if the wearer possesses the Exotic Weapon Feat (or natural claws). If not, non-proficient penalties apply to the wearer’s attacks, and only half his Strength bonus applies to his damage.
He also gains a +10 bonus to Feint checks against new opponents, which drops to a +3 after he first springs the claws. The wearer gains no bonus against opponents completely familiar with the boots. The workings of the claws are oiled with salve of slipperiness and more salve will be needed every so often (GM discretion) for regular lubrication, and for repairing them if they are ever broken. Only a few dozen pairs were made (for an elite cadre of border-patrol guards: the Elu’thiri) and fully 90% of them were bewitched to function only for elves, dwarves or gnomes (15% reduction in cost).
Construction
Requirements: Craft skill: armor and shoemaking or leatherworking, Profession skill: engineering, Craft Wondrous Item, pass without trace, cat’s grace, jump, and longstrider. Cost: 13,550 (or 11,517) gp.
This is the wondrous item I created and rejected for submission, fearing it came too close to crossing the weapon/armor/item line. Let me know your opinions: does it cross the line? is it even worthy of the contest? Thanks! (And FYI, it's 295 words!) In my own opinion, it is a wondrous item, albeit one that also functions as armor and a weapon.
** spoiler omitted **...
To be short and frank, your item runs afoul of multiple issues.
If you want an extensive analysis I can do one for you. Just say it ;)
Anyway I'd suggest that you should try to be more "Tankard of the drunken Hero" awesome than "Helm of Brilliance" awesome - try to do more with less. Make an item with few effects that are really cool, rather than an item with numerous effects that taken alone are rather bland.
To be short and frank, your item runs afoul of multiple issues.
If you want an extensive analysis I can do one for you. Just say it ;)
Anyway I'd suggest that you should try to be more "Tankard of the drunken Hero" awesome than "Helm of Brilliance" awesome - try to do more with less. Make an item with few effects that are really cool, rather than an item with numerous effects that taken alone are rather bland.
Exactly. While most outdoorsy characters would like these for their nice but utilitarian effects, over all, this item's effects are rather bland (SAK, perhaps?).
My actual submission followed your advice to "make an item with few effects that are really cool" so now I feel less anxious about it!
Extensive analysis? If you want to take the time, certainly! Constructive criticism is always appreciated. Thank you.
Starglim, you're right- the claws aren't magical in and of themselves, but over all, the item IS a magic one.
The claws are not actually magical. It seems very dubious, though, that the weapon effects take up well over half the entry. I think it's a wondrous item plus a lot of extraneous text describing new mundane equipment.
Agreed. Taking out the last paragraph, would have removed the 'weapon' question. But is SiaC after that :)
Glad I saw this thread. One of my potential items was SAK & when I simplified it would be weaponinacan. Thanks (again :) Clark.
Feedback:
Elu’thiri Tiger Boots
Aura: faint transmutation. CL: 5th.
Slot: Feet. Price: 27,100 (23,035 with discount). Weight: 3 lbs. each boot.
Description:
A very rare example of a magical cooperation between elves, dwarves and gnomes, these magical masterwork boots are endowed
with a permanent pass without trace effect. Additionally, twice a day, the wearer can mentally invoke one of the following powers upon himself: +10 to Stealth, +10 to Survival
(each lasting ten minutes per caster level)
, cat’s grace, jump and longstrider.
Dwarf and gnome artisans studded each leather boot with mithral
and fashioned a hidden spring-loaded mithral claw (hardness 15, 10 HPs) in each toe, which extends and retracts with a toe clench. These claws grant a +3 bonus to Climbing checks,
and can be used in melee as if a masterwork dagger,
if the wearer possesses the Exotic Weapon Feat (or natural claws).
If not, non-proficient penalties apply to the wearer’s attacks, and only half his Strength bonus applies to his damage.
He also gains a +10 bonus to Feint checks against new opponents,
which drops to a +3 after he first springs the claws
. The wearer gains no bonus against opponents completely familiar with the boots. The workings of the claws are oiled with salve of slipperiness and more salve will be needed every so often (GM discretion)
for regular lubrication, and for repairing them if they are ever broken.
Only a few dozen pairs were made (for an elite cadre of border-patrol guards: the Elu’thiri)
and fully 90% of them were bewitched to function only for elves, dwarves or gnomes (15% reduction in cost).
Construction
Requirements: Craft skill: armor and shoemaking or leatherworking, Profession skill: engineering,
Craft Wondrous Item, pass without trace, cat’s grace, jump, and longstrider. Cost: 13,550 (or 11,517) gp.
I'm no Azmahel, but here are a few things I noticed about that item Keith. Confusing it with a weapon is probably a lesser issue.
Aura: faint transmutation. CL: 5th. Slot: Feet. Price: 27,100 (23,035 with discount). Weight: 3 lbs. each boot.
Description:
A very rare example of a magical cooperation between elves, dwarves and gnomes, these magical masterwork boots are endowed with a permanent pass without trace effect. Additionally, twice a day, the wearer can mentally invoke one of the following powers upon himself: +10 to Stealth, +10 to Survival (each lasting ten minutes per caster level), cat’s grace, jump and longstrider. Dwarf and gnome artisans studded each leather boot with mithral and fashioned a hidden spring-loaded mithral claw (hardness 15, 10 HPs) in each toe, which extends and retracts with a toe clench. These claws grant a +3 bonus to Climbing checks, and can be used in melee as if a masterwork dagger, if the wearer possesses the Exotic Weapon Feat (or natural claws). If not, non-proficient penalties apply to the wearer’s attacks, and only half his Strength bonus applies to his damage.
He also gains a +10 bonus to Feint checks against new opponents, which drops to a +3 after he first springs the claws. The wearer gains no bonus against opponents completely familiar with the boots. The workings of the claws are oiled with salve of slipperiness and more salve will be needed every so often (GM discretion) for regular lubrication, and for repairing them if they are ever broken. Only a few dozen pairs were made (for an elite cadre of border-patrol guards: the Elu’thiri) and fully 90% of them were bewitched to function only for elves, dwarves or gnomes (15% reduction in cost).
Construction 
Requirements: Craft skill: armor and shoemaking or leatherworking, Profession skill: engineering , Craft Wondrous Item, pass without trace, cat’s grace, jump, and longstrider. Cost: 13,550 (or 11,517) gp.
Edit; Ninja'd by 3 seconds!
Oh, and What Scorpion del Ferro said, a whole 4 sec after me ;). All his points are valid and I noticed most of them, even If I didn't mention them all. :)
Very nice break-down of what's wrong with my item, very much appreciated, people!
Here is a response to Azmahel's critique. I know explanations aren't allowed in the contest, but here I can at least try to answer some of his questions.
Weight: 3 lbs. each boot.
Why not simply state that they weight 6 lbs ? Why are they 6 times as heavy as the average magical boot?
Because they're full of mithral. Even at half the weight of steel, it still adds up to more weight. Though I agree with Scipion that it should be less, like 2 pounds each.
A very rare example of a magical cooperation between elves, dwarves and gnomes, these magical masterwork boots are endowed
What does this mean? Can this item only be crafted by an elf, a dwarf and a gnome working together? Why is this part important for your item?
No, it does not mean they can only be made by these three races working together- it means they were made by members of these three races (in a home campaign, obviously). Flavorful addition, could be deleted.
with a permanent pass without trace effect. Additionally, twice a day, the wearer can mentally invoke one of the following powers upon himself: +10 to Stealth, +10 to Survival
What is the bonus type?
My worst mistake- no bonus types mentioned at all. (Competence is the default, isn't it?)
(each lasting ten minutes per caster level)
why not simply state 50 minutes? It's not as if the CL of the boots will change anytime soon. Or is it the wearers CL?
I thought the CL listed is the MINIMUM CL, but obviously, they can be made at a higher CL and then the duration would be longer.
this is pretty much the definition of both SiaC and SAK. The only upside is that you have only 2 charges that must be used for all effects, rather than have each effect be useable 1/day
That was a matter of keeping the cost down, but I like the idea of making the player have to choose which to use on a given day.
and can be used in melee as if a masterwork dagger,
if the wearer possesses the Exotic Weapon Feat (or natural claws).
Exotic Weapon Proficiency for which weapon do you need to use the dagger?
"As if" Claws that slide out of boots are not actual daggers, but these do damage as if they were, provided the wearer has either the Exotic weapon Feat or natural claws (hands or feet- which presumably would give proficiency with claw attacks).
What is a feint check? There is no feint skill ;).
dear me... I thought you'd read the Bluff skill. Feints in combat are clearly detailed under Bluff, and in the combat chapter. But I could hardly call it Bluff (in combat)- while minimizing word count.
Also what exactly is a new opponent? (item makes Gming harder)
Anyone the wearer hasn't fought (WITH the claws) before.
which drops to a +3 after he first springs the claws
So if I wear the boots and fight him with my greatsword I get +10 to feint , but if I use the claws the bonus drops to +3? Seems weird.
Bad assumption- the Feint bonus (competence) applies ONLY to attacks made with the claws. It drops to +3 after the opponent knows the boots have hidden claws within. (Sorry, but you get no bonus to Feints with your greatsword while wearing these boots!)
The wearer gains no bonus against opponents completely familiar with the boots. The workings of the claws are oiled with salve of slipperiness and more salve will be needed every so often (GM discretion) DM Discretion = Item makes DM's job harder, Also screams home campaign item.
True. But what you call making GM's job harder, I call a nice flavorful addition. Adds personality and a special quest (more salve) for the wearer right from the start.
Only a few dozen pairs were made (for an elite cadre of border-patrol guards: the Elu’thiri)
Again screams Homecampaign item. Effectively you forbid anyone from using this item in their game (without importing your home campaign world), let alone giving one to their PCs or letting them craft one.
Hardly. Any GM can easily simply delete my personal fluff text. More work, yes, but really not much.
and fully 90% of them were bewitched to function only for elves, dwarves or gnomes (15% reduction in cost). „bewitched“ strikes me as odd. I'm somehow expecting the word „enchanted“ here. And again my Homecampaign radar goes „ding“
Actually, the words "endowed" and "bewitched" were added specifically because I read on this message board that one of the judges was rather picky about the term "enchanted" being used outside of its context of the Enchantment school of magic. Bewitched goes -Harry Potter- to me, but not home campaign.
How many ranks do you need? The skills are should be written as Profession(engineering) and so on.
Another bad mistake- the ranks are important. I'll put them in all items from now on. Thanks very much for taking the time to give me your feedback!
Scipion del Ferro, I agree with your assessment of the Aura being too low- it should be moderate. And the weight should be 2 pounds at most.
Mentally invoke would be either a free action or a swift action (depending on how much time the GM thinks clenching your toes takes!).
Other problems- good thing I didn't submit this item, eh? Thanks much for your time and advice!
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I know explanations aren't allowed in the contest, but here I can at least try to answer some of his questions.
They aren't, so your rules need to be clear without further explanation. This is also the case with a published supplement. Specific responses follow.
No, it does not mean they can only be made by these three races working together- it means they were made by members of these three races (in a home campaign, obviously). Flavorful addition, could be deleted.
It could - or might be a reasonable requirement, better justifying the reduction in cost.
why not simply state 50 minutes? It's not as if the CL of the boots will change anytime soon. Or is it the wearers CL?
I thought the CL listed is the MINIMUM CL, but obviously, they can be made at a higher CL and then the duration would be longer.
You could save 3 words by giving only the rules for your item. An item with a different CL is a house rule that requires a GM to make judgements and assumptions anyway.
provided the wearer has either the Exotic weapon Feat or natural claws (hands or feet- which presumably would give proficiency with claw attacks).
Check every rule you use for your item, as in this case: Exotic Weapon Proficiency must specify a particular weapon. A creature with natural weapons is proficient with its natural weapons, not other similarly-shaped pieces of equipment.
Actually, the words "endowed" and "bewitched" were added specifically because I read on this message board that one of the judges was rather picky about the term "enchanted" being used outside of its context of the Enchantment school of magic.
Quite right and it seems you've benefited from your research. "Endowed" seems fine. Witch is a specific class.
Another bad mistake- the ranks are important. I'll put them in all items from now on.
Better yet, review items in the core rules to see when and how they give skill ranks as requirements. It's not universal and generally applies when the item has a specific connection to the skill or even gives ranks in the skill as its effect. In this case, ranks in Stealth, Survival and/or Bluff might be appropriate requirements, if you want to use some of the words you saved by other changes people have mentioned.
Mentally invoke would be either a free action or a swift action (depending on how much time the GM thinks clenching your toes takes!)
You're putting yourself forward to be a game designer. How much time do you think it takes? edit: reread the item, removed the last comment
good points Starglim.
Bad assumption- the Feint bonus (competence) applies ONLY to attacks made with the claws. It drops to +3 after the opponent knows the boots have hidden claws within. (Sorry, but you get no bonus to Feints with your greatsword while wearing these boots!)
He also gains a +10 bonus to Feint checks against new opponents, which drops to a +3 after he first springs the claws.
Note How Your item describes the bonus. No restriction to feinting with the claws. So a bad assumption would be saying that it only does so. ;)
- Make sure your item gives the rules it's supposed to give. All restrictions should be explicit.
While we are trying to make unique magical items be sure to verify your items with existing ones. I seem to recall a few 3.5 items which were based on claws with similar effects. There are also some mundane items that deal with the adding bonus to Feinting. These would have been a good place to borrow language for efficiency and precedent.
This is something to think about for any other items as well.
I almost submitted this item and was wondering the same thing that Starglim said above... might it be considered a part of the Potions, Elixers, Oils chart... rather than wondrous item....
Final Death
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 7th
Slot -- ; Price 2500gp ; Weight --
This small vial of dull, golden liquid serves two functions. First, if applied to a weapon, any undead creature damaged with that weapon must make a Will save (DC 6 + Caster Level, minimum 13) or be immediately destroyed. Secondly, if applied to a dead creature, it will be affected as if by the Rest Eternal spell. If an undead creature is destroyed after being hit with a coated weapon it is still effected by the second effect (even if destroyed by other means). The second effect can be undone using Remove Curse or Break Enchantment. There is enough liquid for one application, which is consumed after a single weapon hit.
Requirements Craft Wonderous Item, rest eternal, knowledge(religion) 5 ranks; Cost 1250gp
(I didn't proofread or edit this, since I didn't submit.)
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I almost submitted this item and was wondering the same thing that Starglim said above... might it be considered a part of the Potions, Elixers, Oils chart... rather than wonderous item....
** spoiler omitted **
(I didn't proofread or edit this, since I didn't submit.)
That walks that fine line. In a situation like this I would have made it a magical whetstone. Enough power for one sharpening, yadda yadda. Or a magical piece of leather that you could wrap around the handle of a weapon.
Again, in a home campaign there would be no problems. But, in a contest where there is a chance it could be construed as something else, it's best not to take the chance.
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Star Voter Season 6
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I'd say it's fine as a wondrous item.
1) it has two effects, where the potion is purely a SiaC.
2) Craft potion tops out at 3rd, this is at least a 4th level spell
3) Philter of love, dust of disappearance, ointment, marvelous pigments, etc. Lots of one shot 'potion like' items exist.
Hey Azmahel, would you give me some feedback on something? Its not an item or anything for the contest and it is a bit of a read. I posted on my deviantart page a prestige class that I would love a revue of.
This is the Link to the journal page, the entries are Jun 3 to Dec 6. The Oct 4 and 11th entries can be skipped as they are just fluff for the most part on how the class started and some background info thats not really needed. If you have the time and are willing to do so I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
Jim
Hey Azmahel, would you give me some feedback on something? Its not an item or anything for the contest and it is a bit of a read. I posted on my deviantart page a prestige class that I would love a revue of.
This is the Link to the journal page, the entries are Jun 3 to Dec 6. The Oct 4 and 11th entries can be skipped as they are just fluff for the most part on how the class started and some background info thats not really needed. If you have the time and are willing to do so I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
Jim
You're lucky to catch me right at the beginning of a long , boring evening, so I might give it a go. What kind of feedback are you looking for? Mechanical? Balance? Fluff? Style,? Writing?
But Alone judging from the fact that the PrC is posted in 9 rather long parts you're likely overdoing it.
To avoid further derailing of this thread I'll suggest that you contact me by email.
[mynickname][circle-a][the third w of www][dot][germany]
And now that the grabbots are crying themselfs to sleep, the last part is .de , if you dont't know how german domains are formed ;)
I almost submitted this item and was wondering the same thing that Starglim said above... might it be considered a part of the Potions, Elixers, Oils chart... rather than wondrous item....
** spoiler omitted **
(I didn't proofread or edit this, since I didn't submit.)
As of 3.5, anything that does not work exactly like all the other potions (i.e duplicating a specific and single spell effect) can't be a potion; the elixirs and oils that you're thinking of are now wondrous items. It's okay, I didn't know this until someone pointed it out to ME last year (I was still thinking of the "love potions" from 3.0).
Why is the save DC set by caster level rather than spell level? Also, both caster levels and save DCs for wondrous items are usually worded as though set in stone (a GM certainly COULD let you make a "necklace of heightened fireballs", but the item description assumes a production-line model).
For a reject item this is pretty cool.
OK I tried to email you and I got a mailer demon sent back so here is my.....
I left a space between the 1 and @ that you will need to remove
Finally, someone to help me transfer my Ethiopian fortune into America!
LOL thanks....LOL
At least I didnt give my privet email out, just the one I use for things like this. now
I almost submitted this item and was wondering the same thing that Starglim said above... might it be considered a part of the Potions, Elixers, Oils chart... rather than wondrous item....
** spoiler omitted **
(I didn't proofread or edit this, since I didn't submit.)As of 3.5, anything that does not work exactly like all the other potions (i.e duplicating a specific and single spell effect) can't be a potion; the elixirs and oils that you're thinking of are now wondrous items. It's okay, I didn't know this until someone pointed it out to ME last year (I was still thinking of the "love potions" from 3.0).
Why is the save DC set by caster level rather than spell level? Also, both caster levels and save DCs for wondrous items are usually worded as though set in stone (a GM certainly COULD let you make a "necklace of heightened fireballs", but the item description assumes a production-line model).
For a reject item this is pretty cool.
Exactly my thoughts.
Maybe a tad on the bland side, because it#s just a weapon ability ( disrupting) and a spell in a can, but the combination works and it works elegantly.
Cloak of hidden death
Aura strong aura of coolness; CL 12th
Slot It's on my back, baby; Price 9,999 gp; Weight 4 lbs.
Description
This cloak appears as a normal cloak which (in keeping with Sean's favorite) billows mysteriously as if an unseen wind was blowing. Despite its mundane appearance, the cloak hides 4 magical and concealed hand crossbows. On the speaking of a command word (standard action), the cloak pulls back, revealing the four crossbows (two on each side), which all may make attacks at the wearer's ranged attack bonus doing 1d4+1 damage each. The wearer may target up to 4 different targets within range of 30 ft. Any target failing a Will save DC 20 is so surprised by the revealed crossbows that she is considered flat footed for purposes of attacks against her. Bolts fired from the magical crossbows evaporate in 4 rounds. The four attacks must all be made at the same time and cannot be held or delayed and if not used are lost. The cloak may be activated up to 3 times per day, but no more than once every 4 rounds as the magical crossbows need to reload and they do so slowly.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, magic missile, invisibility; Cost 4,500 gp
As I see it, it is obviously a Wondrous Item.
It appears the hand cross bows attack on their own (though at the wearer's attack modifier).It does not appear that the crossbows use the basic mechanics of a weapon - can the wearer apply feat or trait bonuses, ranged combat feats etc.? (the fact that this detail is ommited is in my opinion the weakest part of this item's description).
If we assume that these feats cannot be applied as the cloak fires the "hand cross bows" rather than the wearer, the effect is more similar to a 7th lvl magic missile effect. Though it is not a force effect, requires attack rolls, can surprise the targets and has an inferior range.
For this item, the line between magic weapon vs. wondrous item is only as blurry as the one between weapon attack vs. spell.
One could ask - does this resemble a weapon more than spell? Is it a magical weapon or could it just as easily have been a ring?
I would not DQ it for being a weapon, maybe for being unclear on how it interacts with the core rules.
Why is the save DC set by caster level rather than spell level? Also, both caster levels and save DCs for wondrous items are usually worded as though set in stone (a GM certainly COULD let you make a "necklace of heightened fireballs", but the item description assumes a production-line model).For a reject item this is pretty cool.
Yup, I didn't bother to fix it up before displaying it here... it's just the idea I wanted to get across. I can't believe I didn't see that oils are now automatically Wondrous Items! Interesting.
The DC was based on caster level because the DC in the spell eternal rest was also based on caster level...
I thought that a Will Save DC 18 was a bit harsh for a 4th level spell to kill something like a Vampire or Lich... those encounters should never be taken lightly... and having an item which was basically "End Undead Encounter" would probably suck for DMs. So I trimmed it down a little...
Never fear though... the item I entered was cooler IMHO. :-)
The DC was based on caster level because the DC in the spell eternal rest was also based on caster level...
That's interesting. Where is this spell from?
I think this item would be coolest if framed as a naturally-occurring substance (sap from a holy tree, for instance).
As for your real submission, best of luck as always. :)
The DC was based on caster level because the DC in the spell eternal rest was also based on caster level...That's interesting. Where is this spell from?
I think this item would be coolest if framed as a naturally-occurring substance (sap from a holy tree, for instance).
As for your real submission, best of luck as always. :)
APG. but the spell doesn't give you a save at all. Instead anyone trying to rescurrect the target creature must succeed on a caster level check.
*sigh*
Yeah.... check, not save. Just thinking outside the box a little :-).
Rest Eternal