Getting the Most out of a Sandman's Sneakspell


Advice


The sandman gets the ability to raise the DC of any spell when cast against an enemy who is denied their dex bonus. My goal here is to get the highest spell DCs for a bard, which is a bit difficult. Here are ideas I've come up with:

Stealth: Generally effective, though difficult to use in combat. Cannot be combined with Dirge of Doom. For full effectiveness you'll need to dip Shadowdancer, which is a tough feat investment for the bard.

Surprise Round: 1/combat isn't a bad deal and makes the sandman an even stronger contender for a high initiative. Can be combined with Dirge of Doom for a +2 to spell DCs.

Feint: By RAW, this isn't actually viable because feint only denies their dex bonus to AC vs. your next melee attack. Arguably this could be used on touch spells, but that's a short list. Greater Feint is where the magic is. It straight up denies your opponent their dex bonus until the start of your next turn. This means you can use a move action to feint and then a standard to cast your spell with a boosted DC. Can be combined with Dirge of Doom for a boosted +2 to spell DCs.

Conditions that deny the opponent a dex bonus: Cowering (Difficult to achieve), Helpless, vs. Invisibility, Paralyzed (helpless), Pinned

Any idea on how to consistently gain Sneakspell's bonuses during combat?

Dark Archive

don't forget the painfully obvious, improved initiative, spell focus, spells like invisibility, silence, debuff spells


Cat's Grace gets your Dex up for initiative, and since it lasts a while can be situationally helpful. If you can get them Blinded,Paralyzed, or Stunned you're looking good. I think the best condition of enemy though is Dead, pretty sure no Dexterity to AC then. But in all seriousness, opportunistically taking advantage of your allies placing foes in above conditions sounds strong- as long as you have a fall back.

Dark Archive

Would the grease spell be available to him?

The wording is atrocious, but the bit about creatures not moving on their turn *not* being considered flat-footed suggests that the intent was for creatures moving on their turn (or otherwise doing something that requires them to make the saving throw) being counted as flat-footed...


Set wrote:

Would the grease spell be available to him?

The wording is atrocious, but the bit about creatures not moving on their turn *not* being considered flat-footed suggests that the intent was for creatures moving on their turn (or otherwise doing something that requires them to make the saving throw) being counted as flat-footed...

Although it is arguable it does appear that failing the acrobatics check for the grease spell would make an opponent flat footed. It wouldn't be all that game breaking anyway since the acrobatics check is always DC 10

Shadow Lodge

This is from the Acrobatics skill writeup:

d20PFSRD wrote:
[...]you can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. A successful check allows you to move at half speed across such surfaces—only one check is needed per round.[...} While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any). If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.

I omitted references to the tables on that page.

Anyhow, I think it's pretty clear that you are flat-footed when using Acrobatics to balance yourself. Making a check means you are using the skill and moving through the Grease'd squares, without voluntarily dropping prone, needs a check.

Of course, the spell is wasted if the opponent never moves, since only movement triggers the effect.


Muser wrote:

This is from the Acrobatics skill writeup:

d20PFSRD wrote:
[...]you can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. A successful check allows you to move at half speed across such surfaces—only one check is needed per round.[...} While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any). If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.

I omitted references to the tables on that page.

Anyhow, I think it's pretty clear that you are flat-footed when using Acrobatics to balance yourself. Making a check means you are using the skill and moving through the Grease'd squares, without voluntarily dropping prone, needs a check.

Of course, the spell is wasted if the opponent never moves, since only movement triggers the effect.

But would a bull rush cause them to lose their dexterity?

Shadow Lodge

No, it would not.

I'd suggest someone else using Dirty Trick or Pyrotechnics(from the Bard spell list) instead. Both can induce states where sneak attack applies. Another option is to have a party member with high wisdom take Improved Unarmed Strike -> Stunning Fist, but if you go that far, might as well coup-de-grace the opponents. Not to mention the feat cost.


At much later levels spell perfection comes into play -- you could use spell perfection to heighten the spell to 9th level for free and then get the bonus from spell focus/greater spell focus being doubled as well.

Arcane Concordance is a bard spell that should help as well I think.


Abraham spalding wrote:

At much later levels spell perfection comes into play -- you could use spell perfection to heighten the spell to 9th level for free and then get the bonus from spell focus/greater spell focus being doubled as well.

Arcane Concordance is a bard spell that should help as well I think.

This comes with two concerns: First, Bard spell cap at 6th, not 9th. And secondly, this makes the build an incredibly late bloomer. Preferred spell is essentially a feat tax, being utterly useless to the Bard.

What spell would you suggest for a bard to use as her go-to trick? Cacophonous Call and Sound Burst would be my two choices. If the build could fit it, I'd grab both. Cacophonous Call takes a single enemy out of the battle for 1 round/level, which at the higher levels is the entire battle. Nauseated limits them to move actions, and it only allows a single will save. It is, however, mind affecting which sucks, but Spell Focus/Greater on Enchantments will get a lot of mileage on most bards. Sound Burst stuns a 10' radius for 1 round on a failed fort save. Stunned is awesome- it disarms & stops them in their tracks, not to mention denies dex to AC and applies a -2 penalty. SF: Evocation won't get too much use on a Bard, but the spell is simply the bee's knees.

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