I've been puttering about with working up NPCs for games lately, and something I noticed about my own style of making them has made me wonder how folks handle NPCs in their own games.
When 3.0 first came out, I did the whole 'build the NPC as a full character' routine, and kept with that through the lifespan of 3.X. But recently, after reading some things in 4e, as well as playing some good old 2e and C&C, I've noticed that I've changed my style of building characters in Pathfinder. I don't bother making them exact, or balanced. I've fallen back on my old AD&D style of statting things up for just what I need.
For example, if I needed a 6th level guard captain, I'd make him something like this (and this was made as I wrote the post, like 45 seconds to toss him together):
HD 6d8 Hp: 33 AC: 17 Str +2 Dex +1 Con +1 Int +0 Wis +0 Cha +0
Fort +6 Will +2 Ref: +3
Skills +10 if useful to a guard, +6 otherwise
Important Gear: Wears chainmail, carries a longsword and crossbow
Mage types get a bit more complex, but even then I mostly just give them a few combat spells, sometimes non combat if they are meant to be a more social encounter.
Not at all perfect, but works well enough for a quick encounter.
How many of you do similar things? Or do you prefer to make sure your NPCs are balanced and created much like PCs?
How many of you do similar things? Or do you prefer to make sure your NPCs are balanced and created much like PCs?
I've done something similar using page 42 for Pathfinder and Table: Monster Statistics by CR. For example, if a I suddenly need a CR 3 foe, the tables give me these stats:
Grond the Sudden: CR 3; hp 30; AC 15; Attack +6; Damage 3d6+2; Fort +6; Ref +6; Will +2; Skills +6/+3; Ability DC 14/10.
The skills are based on CR as HD. I use Attack for CMB and Attack +10 for CMD. I ignore treasure/gear and just make up a quick physical description. If during the encounter, I think it'd be cool for Grond to whip out a poisoned dagger and throw it at the wizard, that's where the Ability DC stat comes in. If Grond has to leap a ditch, I've got two choices for skills.
This works great for quick, simple foes, and leaves more time for detail work on more important NPCs and encounters.
Also, I made regular use of cut-and-paste from PFSRD sources and a word processor. I can modify a monster with classes, templates, et cetera, in just a few minutes in most cases.
Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games
I do that sort of thing. NPCs aren't usually meant to do much, other than become XP for the PCs, or be a source of info or some other sort of social contact.
Unless I think the PCs might spend a lot of time with them (the arrogant young noble they're escorting to the next town over, or the old wizard who can help them get spells and magic items now and then), I usually just come up with ballpark stats and equipment. Fleshing out characters takes a long time, and you can end up with dozens of them.
I often give them feats I wouldn't take if I were going to play them. Their survival isn't always crucial, so I'll pick feats to make them colorful, rather than focus on their survival.
PCs leave behind a bloody trail of former friends, so taking the time to be super-accurate is more work than I want to do. It's not cheating, IMHO. It's time management. ;)
I've been puttering about with working up NPCs for games lately, and something I noticed about my own style of making them has made me wonder how folks handle NPCs in their own games.
When 3.0 first came out, I did the whole 'build the NPC as a full character' routine, and kept with that through the lifespan of 3.X. But recently, after reading some things in 4e, as well as playing some good old 2e and C&C, I've noticed that I've changed my style of building characters in Pathfinder. I don't bother making them exact, or balanced. I've fallen back on my old AD&D style of statting things up for just what I need.
For example, if I needed a 6th level guard captain, I'd make him something like this (and this was made as I wrote the post, like 45 seconds to toss him together):HD 6d8 Hp: 33 AC: 17 Str +2 Dex +1 Con +1 Int +0 Wis +0 Cha +0
Fort +6 Will +2 Ref: +3
Skills +10 if useful to a guard, +6 otherwise
Important Gear: Wears chainmail, carries a longsword and crossbowMage types get a bit more complex, but even then I mostly just give them a few combat spells, sometimes non combat if they are meant to be a more social encounter.
Not at all perfect, but works well enough for a quick encounter.How many of you do similar things? Or do you prefer to make sure your NPCs are balanced and created much like PCs?
I do it by the book. There are at least two players in my group that can reverse engineer a character, and I can do it also with enough clues. I am not saying I will be exact, but I can tell if something is off.
PS:If an NPC is not expected to fight then I only deal with what I need. The mayor of a town won't have combat stats.
I always make sure the NPCs are balanced and created exactly like the PCs. Sometimes this means I make complicated statblocks-- sometimes it means I just jot down a few lines and go with it. Most of the time I make a 'mook' and then use him for an entire session as multiple bad guys, changing the weapon on the fly.
I do in fact do the +max to skills pertaining to the bad guy and +ability mod to skills they wouldn't have. I don't really think it's worth my time to map out every single perform and knowledge skill a bard has when I can just quickly calculate acrobatics, climb, fly and escape artist and be done.
I create my important NPC's following the guidelines and fully flesh them out, especially for NPC's involved in combat encounters. I use whatever pointbuy I gave my PC's, or if I'm in a rush or had them roll, just use the elite array. There is a lot of math and percentages to factor into the game when you break it down, so by not making sure your base numbers are accurate you can really mess a lot up by breezing through creation and improperly adjucating wealth or statistics; either making the encounter more difficult than it should be, or more likely, making it far too easy for its EL. I spend a lot of time prepping for games and usually have several stat blocks for different types of NPCs ready on the fly should the players encounter a _______ who isn't part of the storyline.
For a while, I was stat'ing NPCs as Monsters (that is same format).
However, Herolab makes it a breeze to make full NPCs for use, so i am using that now. I made 10 lvl 11-13 Villains last night, in less than two hours and that while I was chatting with the wife.
Sounds like a herolab commercial :) Sorry about that...
GNOME
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... I don't bother making them exact, or balanced. I've fallen back on my old AD&D style of statting things up for just what I need.
I've been doing things about the same way you do, especially for on-the-fly encounters with non-reoccurring NPCs (like your example guard captain). I also keep a supply of generic NPCs that I can dip into and fiddle with as needed.
I'll take the time to stat out important enemies (or important allies that may be involved in combat) in more detail but even then I don't always stick to the basic creation rules. Especially for the "big bad" fights.
Haven't had any complaints and everything has been going well so far.
I just bookmarked those stat blocks. I play like to play my campaign fast and loose, and those will help so much.
I usually just make an NPC that I think will make for an interesting encounter. For example, I made a magic powered thief who found a way to make herself the center of a breach into Limbo, so in a chase she and the party would battle wills as they both tried to shape the landscape to their own advantage. I just made an illusionist wizard with +1 CR for the aura.
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If it's an NPC created on the fly, I don't so much cheat as wing it, trying my humbly, all powerful best to keep it within my feeling of 'balance' and of course, appropriateness.
Gameplay people, gameplay!
If it's a pre-planned NPC then they're created exactly the same as a PC - mechanics wise - because I love building characters.
However, as their background and resources are under my control I have to be careful to balance gear and items that they would ideally have with gear and items they are likely to have.
Finally I have to be careful not to have them in a wholly optimal situation as this smacks of teh meta, to my mind at least.
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Of course, the NPC is trying to prepare/direct events towards an optimal scenario that favours their abilities (assuming a reactionary encounter i.e NPC is anticipating the PC's.) but as in real life, few scenarios are ever optimal.
Especially after the first round of combat!
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sometimes I still do the whole creation process but only when it is really important, most of the time I just get the basics and run it that way, The NPC guide and gamemaster guide NPCs are a big help. I kind of hope they another NPC guide before they do a new monster Book
I sketch out basics for non-BBEG style guys, like we've seen above. For BBEG characters I like to build them exactly like PCs, but also tend to give them unique home-brewed items/spells or even sometimes abilities. Nothing that is overtly frustrating to PCs as I'm not trying to cheat, just make cool, memorable, surprising encounters.
It's awesome when my rule lawyer PCs are going...."How did he do that?!?!" and then can actually find the spellbook with the new spell or get the item with the quirky ability.
I wouldn't call that stuff cheating, just adding a bit of fantasy to what is supposed to be a fantasy game!
(Note: I also work with any player who has a cool, fun idea to allow their character to find a way to do it. It's not just NPCs that get the benefit of fun new things)
I cheat.
I build all my NPCs exactly by the book, then ignore the recommended NPC gold value. No way is my opposing adventuring group going to have 20% gold value of the players.
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I cheat.
I build all my NPCs exactly by the book, then ignore the recommended NPC gold value. No way is my opposing adventuring group going to have 20% gold value of the players.
That's all well and good until your players end up with twice the wealth they should have at that level. I used to think the same way, but it ultimately helps the campaign to restrict NPC gold.
If it's just the blacksmith or the baker, I don't bother statting them out. However, if it's an NPC I plan to use in combat, then I do. That's the real dividing line - whether they will see combat. I'm not taking the 10 minutes to write up an NPC that bakes cookies for a living. He gets hit and he's likely dead already.
Ditto Doc,
Although I might do less than you. Playing GURPS earlier this year taught me a lot about GMing and time saving. If I have to create an NPC I'll do what is needed to accomplish the task at hand. My players have no need to know what an NPC's STR score is and I don't either. I might not even need to know the STR mod.
There's always "background" reasons for an NPC not to be able to be built as a PC would. I don't need to invent a background trait that the PCs will never know about that gives the NPC a +1 to hit mercenaries. He just does. And then he dies. And we move on.
Only game designers who are going to publish an adventure need to worry about this detail of NPC construction.
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95% of my NPCs don't have stats at all. They are non-combatants. If for some reason they do get caught in crossfire, then they die in 1-3 hits. If they're vitally important they might last longer...the Commoner Who Wouldn't Die is a rather amusing trope.
NPCs that are more likely to be combatants will get more of a workup, but I probably won't spend much time on them. I'll probably steal a stat block from somewhere else and change a few things, not worrying if the end result isn't 100% accurate.
Only fairly important enemy NPCs will get the build-from-scratch treatment.
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95% of my NPCs don't have stats at all. They are non-combatants. If for some reason they do get caught in crossfire, then they die in 1-3 hits. If they're vitally important they might last longer...the Commoner Who Wouldn't Die is a rather amusing trope.
NPCs that are more likely to be combatants will get more of a workup, but I probably won't spend much time on them. I'll probably steal a stat block from somewhere else and change a few things, not worrying if the end result isn't 100% accurate.
Only fairly important enemy NPCs will get the build-from-scratch treatment.
+1.
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I follow the same rules when I create npcs as the pcs do. The only freedom I have is I can slide their level and ability scores up and down to make them an appropriate challenge. If I want them to have more feats, I adjust levels to get them there. If I need a higher attack bonus I bump their Str up. But I don't give them free feats or fiat bonuses.
I'm the DM. I don't need to cheat.
I follow the same rules when I create npcs as the pcs do. I'm the DM. I don't need to cheat.
Word! In fact, I'm even more strict with myself regarding NPC building than I am on the players with PC building. Yeah, it might not matter to them, but it does to me; I like my campaign worlds to have underlying "natural laws" reflected in the rules, ones that everyone in the world obeys.
Wow I guess I'm just more strapped for time then most DMs. When I make NPCs I usually just throw together an hp, AC, attack and damage, and a few relevant skills or feats if I think it will be needed. Spellcasters are a little more in depth but in general I'll just make a list of 5-6 spells I want them to cast and not worry about the rest. Of course, now with the stock NPCs in Pathfinder's GMG and the NPC Guide I have just about every low-mid level NPC type covered, I can just re-skin one of those stat blocks and not worry about anything.
The one exception to this is for major NPC allies and enemies, who I take the extra time to fully build and equip just like a PC would be.
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Of course, I can't do that on the spot, so I do wing it when I need stats for an NPC. However, as they interact, the character gets built. When my bard surprised me with wanting to go to his underground contact Rourke, I had to scramble to get something in mind. I started with ranger/rogue, and as things happened his stats got locked in. If I make a mistake and have him use a feat he can't have, I make sure it only happens that once.
Of course, I can't do that on the spot, so I do wing it when I need stats for an NPC. However, as they interact, the character gets built. When my bard surprised me with wanting to go to his underground contact Rourke, I had to scramble to get something in mind. I started with ranger/rogue, and as things happened his stats got locked in. If I make a mistake and have him use a feat he can't have, I make sure it only happens that once.
Exactly; there's nothing that breaks immersion more than having an NPC who, this week, has all the abilities of a cleric/paladin, but next week can't channel energy or even cast spells, because you forget and re-wing him as a fighter.
I cut corners when I don't have a decent builder spreadsheet or some other tool to make it faster to apply all the rules. I tend to pick feats that can be pre-calculated, max out a skill per skill point they receive per level.
But there is one thing I won't skimp on - if the NPC is going to be a major opponent, whether monster or class-based NPC, I always roll their hit points. I look at using average hit points (or minimum) as a short cut for making multiple creatures to throw at toss at the PCs. In a situation like that, a high hp creature balances off with a lower hp one so the average starts to make some sense. But for unique villains, powerful lieutenants who lead bunches of mooks, and so on, I roll the hps every bit as much as I make my players roll the hps of their PCs.
I don't think I ever "not" cheat under these rules.
I generally follow the rules laid out in character creation with the possible exception that many non-combatant NPCs have a simplified stat-line that contains the relevant skills and ability scores.
Even though I tend to make reusable statblocks there are times that you might need a Expert 2/Aristocrat 2 as a minor noble and you don't want to go to the effort of fully stating him out.
I do sometimes cheat when it comes to ability scores as I tend to go with scores that make sense for the character I want to have rather than constrain myself to 15 point buy or elite array.
I also cheat in terms of NPC wealth. Some NPCs like rulers of nations often have way way above the standard wealth per level and others (shopkeepers, beggars, etc) might have far low wealth than average.
I figure as long as the PCs get x amount of wealth during the encounters that make up gaining a level then they are fine.
I do sometimes cheat when it comes to ability scores....
I also cheat in terms of NPC wealth....
In order for either to be cheating, you'd have to be breaking rules. Since neither breaks rules, neither really constitute cheating. :)
In order for either to be cheating, you'd have to be breaking rules. Since neither breaks rules, neither really constitute cheating. :)I do sometimes cheat when it comes to ability scores....
I also cheat in terms of NPC wealth....
Heh, I guess I meant to say that I don't necessarily follow every guideline in terms of NPC creation.
If combat is not highly likely with an NPC, then I don't stat them up at all.
If combat is highly likely, then I give 'em the full treatment.