What are some of the biggest mistakes you've made as a GM?


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Being a fairly new enthusiast to role-playing games, but especially Pathfinder, I find myself very intimidated while I read these threads about the balance issues, such as the underpowered monk or the overpowered wizard. I am GM of one of the campaigns my friends and I play weekly; the main one really, as it is usually the one we play weekly, and has progressed the farthest. Two players in my group have campaigns that have basically been put on hold, though one is about to start up again. Another's campaign we are running, but he finds himself lacking inspiration so the campaign moves fairly slow.

Sorry for digressing, but that train of thought was intended to let you guys know that I'm the GM. I'm the one that sets the standard for the games that are going to come. I set the example for the others. And I'm terrified of making mistakes. Will I be too soft as a GM, because I'm not giving my players a real challenge? Is it my fault, as a GM, that my friend's wizard is far too powerful, and thus all the other players are simply a supporting cast? That's not the kind of game I want to play. Sometimes reading these threads gives me a "Why bother?" attitude.

Going off-topic for my own thread, I apologize. The reason I created this thread was to hear of far more experienced GMs and players the mistakes they've made, both as a GM and even as a player. I've only been playing tabletop RPGs for about a year and a half, and roughly 6 to 8 months using the Pathfinder system? I'm not quite sure. I know I've made tons of mistakes, both mechanically and RP/realism. Towns that don't make sense, misreading or misinterpreting rules, or just being wrong with the rules outright. The biggest mistake I feel I've made thus far happened about two months ago.

My campaign is different in the fact that my players are both the antagonists and the protagonists of the story. There are two parties, a good party and an evil party. One stands out as the villain, whose other character is also stands out as the "hero", so to speak. That isn't to say that the other PCs lose time in the spotlight; the party makes decisions as a whole, it's just that a single character is the driving force behind these decisions. Jeez, I'm not even sure if I'm making sense. Anyways, the city I made them start at was essentially a cesspool. Little law enforcement, gambling, prostitution, overdrinking, all of which were factors. A city of thieves, if you take my meaning. I feel as though this gave the PCs a sense that they could run rampant through the town, especially since I gave the antihero control of the city's underworld.

The city's council decided that no longer would they stand idly by while this man dominated the underworld, not without some kind of compensation. A councilman and his aide showed up, so my antihero decided it would be a good idea to kill the aide by chucking a scythe at him. I think I got power hungry, and decided that this man was going to live, for no other reason than me wanting to check the PCs power. So, even with a natural 20 on an attack roll, the NPC caught the scythe and tossed it away. This annoyed the players a great deal; weeks later and I'm still hearing inside jokes about my use of deus ex machina. I've come to realize what I've done is a mistake, and based on what I've read in the "Last Straw" thread, I feel like this would be grounds for players leaving my game. What do you think? And please, share your experiences of your own mistakes of GMing.

On a side note, Wowee I'm sorry for throwing a wall of text at you guys.


Well if you are new then you are probably going to make mistakes. Don't worry about it. That does not mean don't try to get better, but even when you get good at it you will still make mistakes.

I think the most common mistakes I see in real life is too much loot, and opponents that are way too easy or too hard.

Don't worry about what you see on the threads. Every group is different, and much of it is theorycraft anyway. The important thing is to get better as you keep gaming.

PS:Another mistake is allowing players to use classes/templates/etc when the DM has no idea how they work. If you don't know what it is say no, at least until you can find out. Asking the player explain it to you, assuming you trust his rules-fu is also not a bad idea.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

SoldierSolidus wrote:
Being a fairly new enthusiast to role-playing games, but especially Pathfinder, I find myself very intimidated while I read these threads about the balance issues, such as the underpowered monk or the overpowered wizard.

For the record, I've been running D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder combined for many years now, and while the monk and wizard arguments come up ad infinitum in message board discussions, I have never seen these "problem classes" actually be problems in actual gameplay. A lot of the arguments for and against these classes are extremely circumstantial and speculative, with number crunching that is certainly interesting but never 100% applicable.

So, in short, don't let threads like that intimidate you, it's just number crunchers and amateur game theorists finding something to argue about, most (but not all, to be fair) the time. At least that's what I have found to be true in my personal experience.

Quote:
Will I be too soft as a GM, because I'm not giving my players a real challenge? Is it my fault, as a GM, that my friend's wizard is far too powerful, and thus all the other players are simply a supporting cast? That's not the kind of game I want to play. Sometimes reading these threads gives me a "Why bother?" attitude.

Your players are the only people who can tell you if you're a good GM. If they're having fun, and you're having fun, you're a good GM.

If they're not having fun, but you talk to them, find out why, and work with them to fix it, you're a good GM.

Don't let some random Internet stranger here ever tell you differently.

Quote:
The reason I created this thread was to hear of far more experienced GMs and players the mistakes they've made, both as a GM and even as a player.

If I list all my mistakes, I will never get anything done today. But a few things come to mind:

1. Early, early on as a GM, I relied way too much on GMPCs. Overuse of a single NPC, especially if they are more powerful than the party, can make the players feel like they're just spectators to the GM Show, powerless and frustrated. (Also, I was creating too much work for myself!)

2. I always, always, always forget to check my enemies' combat feats. No matter how I arrange my stat block to see abilities clearly, I will always forget that a creature had, for example, combat reflexes and could make another AOO or whatever...

3. There was that time I let slip that the comely maiden was really a succubus before anyone suspected... God that STILL pisses me off (it was fairly recent). The players didn't care or think badly of me and didn't metagame, I was just so excited about that scene, I ruined it for myself.

Mistakes happen. Generally let the little ones go by, and the big ones--write them down or otherwise make sure you remember them to learn from. That's what mistakes are for, learning.


Maybe the topic should be 'how do you deal with mistakes', as mistakes will happen. And you best tool is to establish some ground rules everyone can live with when a mistake is made. You will have players that play the rules to the letter, and some others will be more forgiving.


When I first started DMing, I was too lenient with the players. One of the other occasional DMs in our group was very railroady so I bent over backwards to go the other way and let the PCs do what they wanted. The problem was, I had one player who took advantage of it by deciding his character didn't want to run the adventure I had prepared but would rather run off in another direction and do something entirely different. Several split parties and derailed campaigns later, I realized I was complicit in what he was doing by being willing to drop the plotline and make something up for his disruptive characters to do while everyone else sat around and waited. A better solution would have been to say, "Well, if your PC wants to try to break into every home in the village and steal their valuables instead of going on a mission to find the lost heir to the throne, that's fine. Set your character sheet aside, and next time I run an adventure, maybe I'll prepare that for him. Right now, this adventure is going to go with the rest of the party to find the lost heir."

As an aside, one time I actually did make up an adventure for one of those troublesome PCs, according to exactly what he told me his character wanted to do. Guess what: He didn't want to stick with that storyline either, even though it was one of his own devising. Sometimes players are just jerks. :)


It's often true, I think, that the most verbal of any group is also the most extreme. Looking at some of the posts around here, I can see why someone new to the game would be pretty intimidated. One thing to keep in mind is that for every opinion there's an equal opposite one. Particularly to those opinions offered online, considering how anonymous the setting is.

Anyway, I think the most important thing for a DM to do is consider their players first. Every group is different and the players you draw together will all have different expectations and different preferences for gameplay.

One of my own mistakes as a GM was to forget that not every group plays the game in the same way and when I crafted a game for a new group the same way I did for the original one it came as quite a surprise to realize that some of the things I did that were most successful for the one fell completely flat for the other.

The second aspect of this is to be flexible. So long as you can still enjoy your part of the game, be willing to set aside your initial preferences for those that work better for your players.

One final piece of advice: Ask for feedback from your players. I try to do that every session and though it can be hard to hear that something you were excited about didn't work for your players at all, discovering what works and what didn't for your players is an extraordinarily valuable tool.


Don't fall in love with your own plot.

I had an adevnture planned with monsters, dungeons, bad guys and everything--and the PCs totally set out in a direction I did not expect that totally bypassed everything I had made. I kept trying to make the PCs get back to the track I had planned, but it wasn't working.

Your PCs are a vital part of the story. Don't make a grand overreaching plan because they will always do something you didn't see. As a GM, always be prepared for contingencies. Keep some generic dungeons and PCs on hand to drop them into a new direction you didn't see coming. Be ready to modify and make up things on the fly. Above all, a GM must be flexible.


One of my biggest failings as a DM is that I get too caught up thinking about the grand climax(last boss/finale) of the campaign and lose sight of what's going on in the now.

Quick explanation of how I DM; I like to build campaign backstories with some kind of definitive stopping point, such as saving the world, defeating the BBEG, etc. Once this point is reached, we as a group decide whether we want to keep playing or try another campaign. This works better for me as a DM because it gives the game a direction, helps cut down on entire sessions of standing in town doing nothing, and before anyone screams "railroad!", I assure you, the directions and choices the players make have a MAJOR effect on the outcome of the campaign. That's one of the reasons I let them choose if they want to keep going; they get to play in a world they helped shape the future of. Also, I like to play different games or get different ideas fairly often, so have closure in a story line gives us the opportunity to let someone else DM for a while, or pick up a new story.

Anyway, the problem I find myself running into is that aspects of the finale overshadow everything leading up to it. The quests at hand suddenly feel less important and everything turns into a dead rush to get to the "end".

The worst offense of this is a Star Wars Old Republic campaign I ran, where the PC's where harboring a npc Noble who had information invaluable to the Republic, but there were too many spies in the Republic for the PC's to immediately trust, so much of the campaign was supposed to be about the PC's exploring the galaxy, gathering allies, encountering the Sith, bounty hunters, Mandalorions, etc. But instead, the PC's misunderstood the urgency of the situation and did everything in their power to ignore every possible adventure hook, and just "skip to the end." I even had discussions with the group and even gave away some details, explaining to them that a major part of the campaign(like, 80% of it) was going to be about exploring planets and just generally playing off of what they wanted to do, but all I got in response was "Nope, Nope, the Sith are chasing us, we need to get to Telos and stop them." Most of the plot hooks I with practically throw at them, they flat out refused because "we're being chased, we don't have time to investigate that ship/base/casino/armory/etc". So, I did as they wished. We skipped to the end. The players were about 6 levels lower than I had intended them to be, which meant I had to go through and re-stat all the baddies I had prepared for that day. I blame myself for that.


Mixing up and forgetting NPc's names....

Liberty's Edge

Forgetting that everyone is there to have fun. It has been said already, but when I started as a GM I made an adventure (or bought one) and then expected it be played as is.

I should have been way more flexible to party temperment and likes/dislikes.

In another game I forget that I was part of the everyone who was supposed to have fun. The game became a drudgery for me as I tried to accomadate a play style that I did not enjoy. I nearly left the hobby after that.

If everyone is having fun then nothing else matters. Keep in communication with the players and all will be well.

About the scythe... Depending on how much game time passed, you could still save this one... Just tell them that the guy had a ring/charm/wahatever that allowed him to delay death. That 48 hours (or whatever) later he fell from a syche wound. The players think you are brilliant and there is no need for them to know that this was not the plan the whole time.

If you still need a character like that, have another toady step up who is at least visually different and run with it that way.


Jandrem wrote:

One of my biggest failings as a DM is that I get too caught up thinking about the grand climax(last boss/finale) of the campaign and lose sight of what's going on in the now.

<snip>

The worst offense of this is a Star Wars Old Republic campaign I ran...

All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

Jandrem wrote:
...so much of the campaign was supposed to be about the PC's exploring the galaxy, gathering allies, encountering the Sith, bounty hunters, Mandalorions, etc. But instead, the PC's misunderstood the urgency of the situation and did everything in their power to ignore every possible adventure hook, and just "skip to the end." I even had discussions with the group and even gave away some details, explaining to them that a major part of the campaign(like, 80% of it) was going to be about exploring planets...

Yeah, there are so many fantasy novels where the characters must spend hundreds of pages travelling, and acquire the necessary skills and experience to face the BBEG in the end. If they can circumvent all that travel, what then?


SoldierSolidus wrote:
I've come to realize what I've done is a mistake, and based on what I've read in the "Last Straw" thread, I feel like this would be grounds for players leaving my game.

Don't worry. Someone who wants to game will game.

Believe me; I know how you feel. I once made the terrible faux pas of starting an ambitious, epic campaign with beginning players. One such player complained, gave me a lecture on how to DM, and shattered my confidence for years. Seriously.

But you know what? I don't think she ever would have liked RPGs anyway. Had I done a better job, would she have gotten hooked? I'll never know for sure, but I doubt it. So I got back in the saddle and tried again. (WITHOUT that player.) If I had given up altogether, that would have been a REAL mistake!!!


Aaron Bitman wrote:
Jandrem wrote:

One of my biggest failings as a DM is that I get too caught up thinking about the grand climax(last boss/finale) of the campaign and lose sight of what's going on in the now.

<snip>

The worst offense of this is a Star Wars Old Republic campaign I ran...

All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

Heh yeah, it didn't even occur to me as I typed it. :)

Aaron Bitman wrote:
Jandrem wrote:
...so much of the campaign was supposed to be about the PC's exploring the galaxy, gathering allies, encountering the Sith, bounty hunters, Mandalorions, etc. But instead, the PC's misunderstood the urgency of the situation and did everything in their power to ignore every possible adventure hook, and just "skip to the end." I even had discussions with the group and even gave away some details, explaining to them that a major part of the campaign(like, 80% of it) was going to be about exploring planets...

Yeah, there are so many fantasy novels where the characters must spend hundreds of pages travelling, and acquire the necessary skills and experience to face the BBEG in the end. If they can circumvent all that travel, what then?

My thoughts exactly. I was completely floored by the player's decision to just skip everything and run to the end. I gave them freedom(and a spiffy Corellian YT-1300) to go practically anywhere, and they chose to end it as soon as possible. I asked if they just were bored or not having fun, and they claimed they were enjoying the campaign a lot, it's just "this is what their characters would do."

One player did complain about not getting to do any smuggling(he rolled up a scoundrel/smuggler), so I made an adventure that had them doing that very thing, and this same player refused to do it. All of a sudden, given the chance to actually be the smuggler he rolled up, he found a moral high-horse and refused the contract. By the end of the campaign I was just baffled, frustrated, and drained.


SoldierSolidus wrote:
I've come to realize what I've done is a mistake, and based on what I've read in the "Last Straw" thread, I feel like this would be grounds for players leaving my game.

One more thing: A DM is like a leader. All leaders must, from time to time, make unpopular decisions. It doesn't mean the followers will leave. Maybe instead of the "Last Straw" thread, you could look at the "Things DMs do that drive you insane" thread. You'll see that players will complain. It happens. It doesn't necessarily make players leave the game. I just posted a story in that thread, saying that I DID one of those things that drove a couple of the posters insane. I did it, and you what? It DIDN'T make the player in question leave the game. It only taught me not to do that again.


The biggest learning points of my GM-ing career have been, in no particular order:

- Always have a contingency plan. Your players will absolutely miss the big plot-points, the clue-bats, and the clue-by-fours that you are striking them with. Have a backup plan.

- Don't plan your games around the characters, plan them around the players. If one of your players always makes a gun-toting bad-booty, and another always plays a touchy-feely-counselor-Troi kind of character, then those are the kind of challenges you should put them against and those are the kinds of adventures they want to play.

- Similarly, put challenges in front of your players that get them out of their comfort zone. Always feeding them what they like is a good way to get them to get lazy and fat on their own success. Shake them up every once in a while.

- Be tough, but fair. I never pull punches in my games - if the BBEG rolls a natural 20 and sends the PC tank off to the body bank, then that happens. It's not the end of the game. My players appreciate knowing that I play hardball with them, because it allows them to bring their best tactics to the table as well. Similarly, if they've come up with a plan that completely short circuits my scenario, but makes sense and is a valid and legitimate use of their character's resources and skills? I let them run with it. My most recent Cyberpunk 2020 game was completely defused by the fourth session because the player characters did something that was 100% valid, legitimate to their roles, and appropriate. So I let them do it. It was a blast.

- Contrarily - when you have to cheat, don't let it look like you're cheating. That guy you mention, who caught and discarded the PC's scythe? Were it me doing it, I'd have let the natural 20 clap him on the face, bringing him down, only to find that the person they THOUGHT was the BBEG was just a hapless, charmed mook wearing a one-shot hat of disguise. The PC's get to watch the REAL boss run out the back after mocking them, deal with the guilt of having killed an innocent (maybe?), and have a magic-enchantment ready item (now that the charge is gone). The best villains ALWAYS have escape routes.

- Lastly, when you plan an encounter, give the PC's more than one way out of it. I mention this over in a thread about the Star Wars Saga RPG, but my players love that there is always more than a simple combat option out of an encounter. Sometimes they drop the ceiling on the bad guys. Sometimes they talk their way out of it. Sometimes they shoot a steam-pipe and get away in the confusion. Allowing your players to get creative is the best way I've found to keep them involved and coming back for more.

Hope these help!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

The best lessons I've learned are:
- Always give each player a chance to feel like a hero. Set aside a moment each game for them to feel like they're something special. Never forget them. If you do this, they'll forgive you a lot of stumbles.
- Always admit your mistakes. Be open, apologize if necessary and ask your players' advice and input. It goes a long way.
- Before you start a game, always ask the players what they're looking for out of the game. What's fun to you might not be fun to them.
- When everything goes wrong, let it. Some of the most memorable moments from games I've run came right after I lost control of the plot and just went with the flow.
- You don't have to have a game planned out to the end; you just have to be a page in front of the players. In fact, I find I work much better when I come to the game with a starting point and let the flow build itself and see where the players take it.
- Never be afraid to pull numbers out of your rectum. "Roll a d20 for me. Add a +2 to that roll. Good idea, roll a perception check with a +5 bonus." Or, if you don't know the AC of a specific creature, make one up. Just never make them terribly high or terribly low unless there's a good reason for it.
- You're there to have fun. When it stops being fun, take a break. Everyone will thank you for it later.
- When in doubt, take a deep breath and smile. It throws the players for a loop and their pause will give you time to figure out what to do next.

I hope these help!

PS My biggest DM mistake? Allowing an untested 3rd party class into a party of core book characters. Talk about throwing a monkey wrench into things. I spent more time trying to keep that overpowered PC from walking all over the plot than I spent on the plot. Be careful what you allow into a game, and if it turns out badly, be honest and talk to the group about it. You can stop 9/10ths of problems by talking to your group about them.


One of the worst things you can do is let a player run the game. Of course they make the decisions and can choose their own fate. But *you* the GM are the Referee and arbitrater of the rules. Rules discussions belong in one place: OUT of the game. Be fair in your rulings and be consistent. But do not argue rules at the table. Most rules arguments are between GM and *a* player, leaving all the other players out of the 'game' while the debate drags on. If you have to, call a break and discuss it in 15 minutes. At the end of that time, make a final decision and play with it like that.

Just play! Let the players explore their world however they see fit (within some boundaries, such as my personal favorite rule: No Evil PCs) Let them search for traps, talk to the maiden, kill the troll, run from the village mob :) It's their game and it should suit the players.

And ignore the discussions that amount to "winning" at D&D/Pathfinder. Overpowered is as Overpowered does. If it works in your (and your friend's) game than it works :) Don't sweat someone else's 'winning' character. imo the discussions on winning are based on the fact that with math and character builds you can validate an opinion. You can *prove* that the Two Handed Fighter does more damage than a sword and board. But then again, math is easy. Story telling is much harder.

GNOME


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Ugh.

Enough recently forgotten things (in stat blocks, tactics (whether my own or from a module/AP), and what spells actually do or don't do).

But, my players (my friends) keep on coming over every Monday and every other Sunday (provided life, work schedules, and the like still allow).

So, my lapses of memory, misreading a stat block (or forgetting something in a stat block) and all my other mistakes must not bother them to the point that they say ("Screw this, we have better things to do with our time.")

The important thing... we have fun.

And there you have it.

Dean (TMW)


Thanks for all the replies. And I do think that I do a good job as GM, at least good enough for my group. We have a blast role-playing, and I try to cater to all of my players needs for a good gaming experience. So, ultimately, I've got the most important rule of tabletop RPGs down. Now to get to work on refining the rest of it.

Now, back to the thread topic...


SoldierSolidus wrote:
A councilman and his aide showed up, so my antihero decided it would be a good idea to kill the aide by chucking a scythe at him. I think I got power hungry, and decided that this man was going to live, for no other reason than me wanting to check the PCs power. So, even with a natural 20 on an attack roll, the NPC caught the scythe and tossed it away. This annoyed the players a great deal; weeks later and I'm still hearing inside jokes about my use of deus ex machina. I've come to realize what I've done is a mistake, and based on what I've read in the "Last Straw" thread, I feel like this would be grounds for players leaving my game. What do you think?

No, no, no - you were in the right. Very much so. Like, this specific incident - ruler, crit roll - is often used as a hypothetical. Do not be dissuaded by what you read in the other thread. This was an "I kill Gandalf" moment. It's best to engineer games to avoid the chance for them.

If there's a mistake, it's in letting there be an evil party. Evil is really hard to run. You did not get "power hungry." Functionally, the obvious result of that character's actions - whether he hit or not - is for the town to strike him down. Crime lords who try to off politicians directly do not remain crime lords much longer.

This was dubiously railroading. At worst, it's a mismatch between what sort of game you expected to run and what your players expected to play. Most likely, the difference between what you did, and what a more experienced DM would do, is making what you specifically did come off as much more seamless, as if it were playing to your specific expectations. Your players are merely giving you some good natured joshing about the fact. It's not wrong call.

The Exchange

Trying to solve problems in-game when a simple, honest OOC conversation could have fixed it.

Example:
(What should have happened)
"Tommy, that armor that makes you totally invulnerable to everything is making the game a lot less fun for everybody else. Let's figure out a way to scale it back some. I'm sorry to do this, but now I see that I never should have stuck that treasure in the adventure."

Instead of imposing some Xeno's Paradox thing where an even-more-invulnerable opponent appears out of nowhere and neutralizes the armor, leaving the player angry and bitter.


Based on my own numerous DMing mistakes, I offer the following rules:

1. If your players come up with some wonderful solution to a problem you never thought of, be grateful. They're doing half the work for you. Let them be heroic and creative.

2. Be prepared to make stuff up if you need to. Players are very prone to not going where you think they might or doing what you think they might. They will, therefore, often miss crucial bits of plot. Make sure they get those plot parts some other way. Don't break your own neck forcing them to go back to the Amazing Shop of Gizmos so they can find whatever it is the "proper" way.

3. Linked to 2. When I'm reading an adventure (or inventing new bits of one) the first question I ask myself is "what do the pcs do?". If the answer is "listen to npcs talk for a while" or "sit around and get eaten" or "die horribly because nobody in the group has a snowball's chance of making that check" - change it.

4. Despite 3. Let players die. Sometimes the dice will do that. It's why we use them.

These work for me - but I'd point out that I mostly run pbp games and one of the great advantages is that in that medium it is far, far easier to be flexible.


I've been all over the map with mistakes.

I have been to open to my players allowing some real power gamers into the mix.

I have been to strict with my players, narrowing their choices to the point where it is no longer fun for them.

I have rail-roaded plotlines, and left open box worlds.

But I think the lessons I have learned boil down to these.
1) Always give your players a chance or a choice any any/every situation.
2) Be adaptable to the changing desires of a campaign and the party.
3) Give your player's characters a personal reason to continue adventuring.
4)FOLLOW THE RULES. Dosn't matter if it is rules from the book or house rules, enforce them the same way all the time. Otherwise your players become unruly.
5) Tuck away your pride. As a DM, the party will defeat your traps/plans/NPC's on a regular basis and will often do it with much more ease than you wanted. It stings at first, but it is actually a good thing.

Liberty's Edge

The hardest thing I had to learn was that you have to lose the battles to win the war. Don't get to invested in the cool bag of tricks your encounters are made of, after all the idea is the party beats it. If you win the battle everyone dies and no one, including you, has fun. Not saying that part of a campaign you don't get to whip some butt now and then, just be sure the butt whipping doesn't end in frustration or boredom.


One piece of advice that I've learned (though I still find it hard to always follow) is DO NOT GET INTO A HABIT OF FUDGING DICE OR ENEMY STATS. As a beginner DM, I fudged stats and rolls more often than not, because I would be afraid the party was in over their head and I'd try to pull back the challenge (and then I'd end up getting mad that the players blew through my encounter, so I'd purposely make the next encounter even worse, only to begin fudging in their favor once again so the cycle kept repeating). Not only does fudging in favor of the players cheapen the victory if they ever find out, but it may convince the players that their characters will never die, no matter what they do. While you may not want PCs to die, it is ultimately an inevitable (and necessary) truth that PCs WILL die. Sometimes the dice are just bad, sometimes they make bad decisions- some of them WILL die, and if they don't, chances are you're making your encounters too easy. And because of this, if you're constantly fudging to keep the players alive (as I often did, and still do from time to time), then if there ever comes a time when a PC does die, you will feel personally responsible for it (because, after all, if you had fudged a bit more, it wouldn't have happened!). You shouldn't TRY to kill your PCs, but if it happens, it happens. Fudging will only lead to you being responsible, instead of foolish actions of luck of the dice. And if you're like me, you'll only get more and more frustrated as the campaign goes on because of it.

PC death will happen. Don't seek it out, but don't prevent it arbitrarily. The trick is to learn to balance encounters and tactics so that every encounter serves the purpose you want it to (whether that purpose is to challenge the PCs but not endanger them, to be a complete pushover, or to beat the PCs into the ground) without any fudging whatsoever. If you're a person who fudges a lot, like I was, rolling out in the open and letting the dice make all of the decisions will free up your mind and remove a weight from your shoulders.


Just some stuff off the top of my head:

Mistakes in GMing:

1. Don't free form campaign. Always have an outline that you are following. Players get bored if they don't sense the story is progressing towards an end. Make sure they know where they are in your story and approximately when it will end. The APs do this for you nicely.

2. Don't use DM-PCs. If you don't know what these are look it up and avoid them. Always.

3. No fudging. Just don't do it. In fact I would suggest you start on day 1 of your campaign by making all YOUR dice rolls where they players can see them.

4. Force the players to use a character tree. This goes hand in hand with no fudging. If the players have a properly leveled up character that they are familiar with and is ready to go it makes dice roll fudging less tempting.

Mistakes in game rules:

1. I often forget if a creature has SR. Always check this when a PC casts a spell. In fact at mid-high levels I have the PC make an SR check automatically when they cast and if the creature has no SR I just say so then.

2. At times I forget what creature types are immune to what effects. Like undead being immune to Fort saves UNLESS the spell can be cast on objects (like Disintegrate). Familiarize yourself with the various creatures types, there really aren't that many.

3. Make sure intelligent NPCs use their healing abilities if they have them. I always forget to do this. Just use it early in the combat so it's gone and you don't have to worry about it.

4. Don't forget the PCs have skills and the players like to use them. I would not suggest tailoring your adventure to use the skills PCs have but rather make it clear when a certain skill would have been useful if the party had it and make the rewards for successful skill use worth it.

Mistakes in player material:

1. Don't allow the PCs to use "anything they want". Preview and analyze anything a player wants to use if your are not familiar with it. One general rule I use is it MUST be a printed and professionally bound book for me to even consider it. Sorry about the no PDF stuff but it does weed out a lot of sub-par stuff (especially in 3.5).

2. Limit the books the PCs can use in general. Today my players are allowed to use the Spell Compendium and 1 other player book of their choice. That's it.

3. Make sure the party operates as a party not a bunch of individuals. I have seen too many campaigns fall apart when the players start following their own individual agendas. The point of the game is to adventure as a party not as individuals.


Using DM Fiat to make an unwinnable encounter because my players were having too easy of a time. (To be fair, I was a novice GM at the time, and my players were very upset afterwards. Lesson Learned.)

Dark Archive

Not taking my time to prepare. This is why I suck at GMing.


the David wrote:
Not taking my time to prepare.

This. This, this, this, this +9001. I can tell that my games are 100% different when I prepare (spend at least a couple hours over the week, as well as at least half an hour the day of the game studying the adventure/notes) than when I don't prepare. I can only assume that my players can tell as well. Not only is my game better when I prepare, but when I don't prepare, I don't feel ready, and I constantly look for excuses to delay/cancel the game.


There is a fine line between preparing and OVER-preparing though. Trying to find that balance for what works for you & your group can take some trial and effort.


Lilith wrote:
There is a fine line between preparing and OVER-preparing though. Trying to find that balance for what works for you & your group can take some trial and effort.

This

I had planned encounter with a gypsy camp, with all sorts of little cool encounters and npc interaction with the PC's.

The PC's were bored out of their skulls and wanted to push forward. Okaaay, I thought. We get to random town X, and they literally spend two hours chatting up the locals and have a barter session with a local paper maker.

I've learned in my campaign notes to just have:

1. PC's run into gypsies

That's it, anymore and I'm going to run into problems lol :).

The Exchange

When I was 13 or 14, and very new to running a game, I ran an (not so) epic battle against a Titan and his minions..... and neglected to give them their turns in combat. :/


Moorluck wrote:
When I was 13 or 14, and very new to running a game, I ran an (not so) epic battle against a Titan and his minions..... and neglected to give them their turns in combat. :/

I've done this...not with the entire group of monsters, but forgetting to give an NPC his turn. Luckily I have a masochistic PC who always reminds me if I skip a bad guy :).


Renvale999 wrote:
Moorluck wrote:
When I was 13 or 14, and very new to running a game, I ran an (not so) epic battle against a Titan and his minions..... and neglected to give them their turns in combat. :/
I've done this...not with the entire group of monsters, but forgetting to give an NPC his turn. Luckily I have a masochistic PC who always reminds me if I skip a bad guy :).

That still happens to me all of the time, at least until recently, since I've gotten into the habit of actually writing down the initiative order (used to just count down every round). I'll have several NPC's on the board and there is a good chance one or two of them misses their turn. And I too have a player who will remind me, "the fire elemental didn't attack," or something similar. He is also good at reminding me when I'm forgetting an NPC's Blur or Stoneskin, much to the rest of the party's dislike.


Ringtail wrote:
Renvale999 wrote:
Moorluck wrote:
When I was 13 or 14, and very new to running a game, I ran an (not so) epic battle against a Titan and his minions..... and neglected to give them their turns in combat. :/
I've done this...not with the entire group of monsters, but forgetting to give an NPC his turn. Luckily I have a masochistic PC who always reminds me if I skip a bad guy :).
That still happens to me all of the time, at least until recently, since I've gotten into the habit of actually writing down the initiative order (used to just count down every round). I'll have several NPC's on the board and there is a good chance one or two of them misses their turn. And I too have a player who will remind me, "the fire elemental didn't attack," or something similar. He is also good at reminding me when I'm forgetting an NPC's Blur or Stoneskin, much to the rest of the party's dislike.

I need a player like that. My combats might be more interesting if I had that. Forgetting buff spells is my biggest problem, so I have taken to simply assuming that the enemies in question would use them just before combat, if there's a chance of them knowing the PCs were coming. Works out better that way.


I've made a ton of mistakes in my games in my 15 years of D/GMing. I still make mistakes in my GMing. You will make rules mistakes - no one (not even the designers!) know all of the rules, by heart. And the GM shouldn't be flipping through the rulebook every two minutes just to make a call.

Here's a few things (some of them may have been mentioned before) I've learned from my games:

1) It's not personal. Look, you're going to get a player who - for one reason or another - will challenge your authority. He could be having a bad day/week/month/life. He could be under another stress. Whatever. But you're going to make a call, probably (though not necessarily) detrimental to his character, and he's going to snap, yell, and challenge you - maybe even dare you. And it'll be pretty tempting at that point to say "rocks fall, you die" (or something similar.) Don't. Just take a moment, realize that it isn't personal, and there's a deeper issue here - just issue your ruling, then let the argument go.

2) Stand by your ruling. Be firm, but fair. If you make a ruling off the cuff, make sure you stand by it. But also make sure that it's fair, and if there's a legitimate issue and appeal to the RAW (not an appeal to real world, or even "in character," logic - that's a clear sign the player has lost perspective), listen to it, and make sure that your ruling isn't contradicting RAW. (After all, the Rules as Written are there to protect players from poor GMing.) But if the ruling is just, and there's no RAW on point, be firm, and keep the argument to a minimum. Tell the player he's free to approach you after the game and you'll consider his position fully then. But don't let the game break down into a rules argument.

3) Don't be afraid to go for the kill. I learned this as a player. I once played in a military campaign where the GM did every thing possible to keep his players from dying. When a player character was close to death, he'd have some bit of Deus Ex Machina appear and save that character.

It was boring as hell. Combat became meaningless. (This wasn't D&D or Pathfinder, which has an element of tactics to the combat. This was a pretty straightforward system where you chose how you were attacking (your choices ranged from Dangerously Recklessly to Cautiously Defensive) and then rolled dice to see if you hit and how. It didn't have a battle grid. So the combat itself was boring as hell.) We knew we were going to win every single time.

I started to become hostile to the game, where I actively started to seek my character's death, doing stupider and dumber things. When that didn't pan out and I was still rescued time and again, I just shut down, then left the game quickly thereafter.

Your players have to know you aren't going to be afraid to kill them. So go ahead - go for the kill.

3.b) Don't be afraid to pull your punches. A corollary to the above - while you have to be unafraid to kill, you also have to know that the game is best played when you pull your punches. The PCs are supposed to win. There's nothing wrong with wanting your players to win. Sometimes that means you'll fudge a roll - your big bad will miss an attack that clearly hit, because if he had hit the PC would die. More often that means that bad guys won't be as smart as they could be (for example, if your notes say that there's guards nearby when the PCs engage the big bad, but the big bad is handling himself swimmingly, there's no need for you to have the guards engage; or perhaps the PCs come up with a minor distraction that you don't think would have much of an effect on trained guards, but you let it go anyway because it's the PC's plans, and they're supposed to win.

I know 3 and 3b sound like two extremes, but they're really not. GMing is about walking a very fine balance in order to maintain a fantastic illusion.

Boy, there's more to talk about. So much more. But you just have to trust that, even if you make mistakes, they're not going to be so big as to end your game. And honestly, you probably will make one earth-shattering, game-breaking mistake. I've seen every GM I know (including myself) make such a mistake. You really can't let that fear paralyze you.

And when that mistakes happens, what do you do? Do you quit gaming? Find new friends? Give up all your hopes and dreams?

No.

You move on. You give some time for people to cool off. Then you approach your friends, say "Hey, I was a bit of a d*ck, wasn't I?", and then you start a new game.

I've been playing with the same group of guys for 12 years, and another group for 8. We've broken games. We've fought, bitterly, over rules. Some of us have even stopped talking at a time.

But that's kind of part of being a social animal. The trick is to just accept that you'll make mistakes, that you aren't perfect, and to have the humility to move on from that.

Best of luck to ya. I'm sure you'll have a ton of fun.


Talynonyx wrote:
Ringtail wrote:
Renvale999 wrote:
Moorluck wrote:
When I was 13 or 14, and very new to running a game, I ran an (not so) epic battle against a Titan and his minions..... and neglected to give them their turns in combat. :/
I've done this...not with the entire group of monsters, but forgetting to give an NPC his turn. Luckily I have a masochistic PC who always reminds me if I skip a bad guy :).
That still happens to me all of the time, at least until recently, since I've gotten into the habit of actually writing down the initiative order (used to just count down every round). I'll have several NPC's on the board and there is a good chance one or two of them misses their turn. And I too have a player who will remind me, "the fire elemental didn't attack," or something similar. He is also good at reminding me when I'm forgetting an NPC's Blur or Stoneskin, much to the rest of the party's dislike.
I need a player like that. My combats might be more interesting if I had that. Forgetting buff spells is my biggest problem, so I have taken to simply assuming that the enemies in question would use them just before combat, if there's a chance of them knowing the PCs were coming. Works out better that way.

The player that checks me is the same guy who is a bit of a rules lawyer. But he's not a d*ck about it, he simply points out what the actual rule states, then lets me make my own call regarding my interpretation. I expect him to show up every week and let me know what rule we misinterpreted last session :). But again, he's not a d*ck about it.

I have a huge issue with players who feel the need to tell me that I can't change a rule because its the rule and unchangeable. Now, if I change the rule mid-game with no warning, sure. But you gotta give the GM a little bit of leeway to interpret things to fit his campaign.


My biggest mistake was allowing players to choose evil for the Kobold King series...it quickly went off track and the only motivation was cash at that point, they became very mercenary.

The mistake was continuing to play through the rest of the series...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Naming a group of Living City/LSJ players "The Wrecking Crew". They'ved lived up to it ever since.


My biggest mistake as a DM was having a dominated NPC give a PC his long worked for Harper Pin, that was in fact a Scarab of Death.

One of my longstanding mistakes that I've recently worked to change, is arguing with certain players over a rule instead of just saying "This is how it is, we can discuss it later". I game with my friends and it hasn't been huge, but there have been too many heated exchanges over the years that could have been spent keeping the game moving.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

Moorluck wrote:
When I was 13 or 14, and very new to running a game, I ran an (not so) epic battle against a Titan and his minions..... and neglected to give them their turns in combat. :/

Heh. Heck, I'm 32 and I'm still doing this! Things get heated, things get confused. The important thing is always that everyone has a good time. And I've found, if you're going to run a big battle, with many NPCs, it's always a good idea to deputize a co-DM to help run the minions. We did a HUGE 4e battle featuring 10 PCs and over 100 NPCs. I was the co-DM and the final battle was Epic in scale. If we didn't co-DM it would have never ended well. As it was, it was a great time.

And then we gave up 4e. It was a great system for huge battles, though.


My first D&D 3.0 campaign.

Ok, after thinking awhile, there was another. I (primarily, but with a lot of help) created a homebrew Star Trek RPG several years ago. Oddly, while we used a d30 as the primary determining die, it was very much like what the d20 system was when it was introduced.

Anyway, we worked on the rules, the races, the advancement methods, the ships, etc., and finally we had our first actual game. I had (I thought) a great scenario for them, with lots of challenges for diplomacy and plenty of action (they had to rescue an away team stranded on a hostile outpost).

The game ended 15 minutes in when my brother, playing the captain, completely surprised me with a solution to the whole scenario I never foresaw and rescued the party without incident. Being fair, I conceded that it was a great idea and we all went out for Chinese.

Next game lasted 20 minutes. We haven't touched it since...lol

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Not allowing a do-over on a TPK that was my own fault. I still regret not seeing Lorimir continue through the adventure path.


In my 20+ years of DM'ing I've probably made almost every mistake there is.

A common mistake which I still make is forgetting how the stealth rules in Pathfinder works allowing players and monsters to hide out in the open without any cover or concealment, but I have to admit that this is partly due to my groups rogue which constantly rolls stealth check no matter where she goes without asking about terrain or concealment.

I have a tendency to get bogged down with details and minutiae which would have little to no impact on the game. This was much less of a problem before the 3.x era for some reason.

I always forget the names of npc's and mix them up.

I am to kind to my players and fudge to much or give away to much information about the plot or what they could expect(my players are real control freaks and constantly fishes for information).

I can go a bit overboard with climatic encounters tweaking the bad-guy a bit much.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Forgetting important enemy abilities is probably my worst offence. I've done that one a few times.

My second biggest mistake was letting a ridiculous power gamer create a Warforged Artificer/Sword Sage (Book of Nine Swords) in a 3.5 Eberron Shackled City game. His ability to steal spot-light from other characters was uncanny, and other players resented his complete broken ways.

My biggest mistake was having the attention span of a gnat and never finishing a campaign. My players have so many 4-5th level characters left by the wayside because I grew bored with a campaign. I hope to rectify that with Kingmaker. (My curse of the crimson throne game was put on indefinite hiatus due to player's conflicting schedules).


Thinking that I knew better than the rules and 'putting my foot down' as a Game Master when the players were right.

Building adventures without considering the characters that would be taking part in them.

Building adventures that were too considering of the characters that would be taking part in them.

Letting a Ring of Wishes and a less than wise player destroy a successful, enjoyable and long running campaign.

Thinking that warning said less than wise player twice that maybe he should wish for something else was a good enough reason to let the previous mistake happen.

Forgetting important player character abilities and having to backtrack to include their effects. Not so much for Dungeons and Dragons/Pathfinder but a major problem in other games.

Refusing to admit I was wrong, say I'm sorry and put it behind me.

Refusing to relax, realize they'll never admit to being wrong and then just letting it go.


Second biggest mistake? Running any game by the RAW.

Biggest mistake, period? Running that one epic game by the RAW.

Silver Crusade

So many mistakes. A list in no particular order:

Let the my group buy a helm of teleportation at 9th level. I regretted that for a long time. Especially, in the epic final fight of my campaign.

Ran an entire campaign 15 years ago where the bad guys were named after the simpsons: Bartholemew, Montgomery, Margrete, Margrete jr, Elizabeth, etc. The players loved the campaign but had trouble getting past the names. Bu it did make me improve my names in future games.

Allowing RPGA players to play in my campaign. The RPGA mentality made them very bad casual group players.

I ran a Cyberpunk campaign were I kept up the pressure (no actual fighting just in game coercion) without releasing it once in a while. Like a horror movie with no fake frights. Two players just quit from the stress.

Giving too much treasure in a game where all the casters had item creation feats. That was one tricked out party.

Falling into the trap of upping the difficulty of encounters in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil for a large group. Finally, i just let them run roughshod over a portion of the dungeon until the reduced experience brought the group to the right level.

Did I mention the Helm of Teleportation?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

I've been playing on and off for 23 years. Currently, I've been the GM for my group even though I prefer player. Most of my "campaigns" haven't lasted past the second adventure. I spend weeks laboring on a great adventure that combined just the right amount of roleplaying and combat. They thought it was best thing since sliced bread and then they wanted to play the next week. Trying to duplicate the best adventure ever in a week ended up badly. I still go for fun, but I don't treat every adventure or session as having to be the best adventure my players will ever play. I go for fun instead of greatness. My current campaign meets about every two weeks and I've learned so much already. A couple of things-
1. Just because a monster looks tough in the Bestiary, if it is of equal challenge rating to the party, the barbarian charges it, the monk grapples it, the thief sneak attacks it, and the archer peppers it with arrows while the cleric heals everyone and the poor monster cries quietly in the corner trying to find its happy place. Crappy, low CR minions are great for soaking up hits so the real monster can threaten the PCs makes for more exciting encounters for both you and and the PCs.
2. If you are like me and your group doesn't meet weekly, it's not a bad idea to recap what is going on. GMs spend more time playing the game through planning adventures than the PCs so we can't expect them to remember everything that happened.
3. Let the PCs have downtime to rest (make acquaintances in town, shop, build items/weapons, etc)instead of constantly go, go, go. (Unless that is your and the players style/wants)
4. Piggybacking on to number 3, let them go back to town once in awhile. That's something I'm working on in my campaign.
5. Don't get discouraged when they kill that villain you spent an hour statting up. You are the GM. PCs only have their one player (usually). You have all the rest of the creatures of your campaign world at your disposal. If your awesome half fiend ghost dragon were-rat dies, well, then he might just have a brother, sister, aunt, cousin, former room mate.


As a DM, plenty. Too many too enumerate, I feel.

As a GM;

1: Letting people make characters before viewing the game material. Started Kingmaker with a group of 5 players using 25 point buy and 3.X materials. Until I said "Enough!" and remade everything to Core, the fighter and wizard could pretty much take on the whole AP alone.

2: Giving a damn about "grinding". Sometimes I just can't channel enthusiasm, especially in the "logical" random encounters with weaklings. If the encounter is less than APL-2 and doesn't pose a realistic threat, I generally just say "you encounter such and such, and beat it without any trouble. Cleric can lose on channel to undo unlikely damage, and move on...". I do this to save playtime for stuff that is actually challenging and/or interesting, but it probably comes over as apathy.

3: Tying my hands/laziness with APs. Tend to turn stuff into railroading, shooting down players' attempts to circumvent parts of the material I paid good money for instead of going the extra mile and rewriting stuff. Ironic, considering I usually tend to revolve things around the players when I make stuff myself.

4: Not enough RP. With exception of 2 players, my group are all pretty intense Warhammer 40K/WoW/Video-game enthusiasts, and it tends to quickly become all about the numbers. This obviously bugs the rest. I can't for the life of me tell you anything about the background apart from the fluff needed to qualify for archetypes/traits, the personal preferences or even the appearance of half the party I have GMed from lv1-12.

Mortagon wrote:
I am to kind to my players and fudge to much or give away to much information about the plot or what they could expect(my players are real control freaks and constantly fishes for information).

"Too kind and fudge too much"? 2 deaths before lv6 (would be 5 if we had not started with hero points), and for every nat 20s we roll as a party, you roll like 1d4+1. I would call hax on that die long ago if you rolled like that as a player.

I don't get the "control freaks" one. What information are we fishing for? Plot information? Enemy information? Weather forecast? The possibilities regarding whether or not 3 totally gear-dependent characters can hope to be equipping themselves adequately when you've banned item creation feats in a campaign hundreds of miles from anything resembling civilization?

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