Who wins?
I say the Pit Fiend.
Balor, simply because when anyone in my group wants to scare somebody they scream "AND THEN TWENTY BALORS APPEARED!!!!" if I said pit fiend they would wonder how they got past those balors...
on a more serious note still balor, better weapons, better reach, and more health. Unless the pit fiend still has his wish for the year....
It's amazing how these boards have become the breeding grounds for pointless posts.
Not one insightful answer. Shameful.
This question came up during some rounds of mock combat. Due to the pit fiends focus on combat, primarily grapple, we figured he would win over all. His healing abilities also push him over the top.
But I'm curious what the number crunchers think. Leave the pointless posts somewhere else trollers.
Hey now half of my post is on topic, I just did not want to number crunch, I looked at both deamons and then posted just as much as the OP when he chose pit fiend :P
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It's amazing how these boards have become the breeding grounds for pointless posts.
Not one insightful answer. Shameful.
Really? You ask a pretty pointless question, you're going to get "pointless" posts in response. I wouldn't call any of the replies pointless, myself, since they talk about their group's experience and what each creature would do in such situation. The mechanics don't really matter considering that such a battle would be decided by the DM to advance the story one way or another.
However if there was a fair fight between these horribly devious creatures, I'd put my gold on the Balor. He gets 7 vorpal attacks a round. So after 3 rounds of full-attacking he should roll at least one natural 20 and a chance to behead the Pit Fiend. He could also try to dominate the Fiend or, even better yet, the Horned Devil it would most likely summon(which the Balor's Merilith could most likely knock unconscious with a few constrictions).
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It's amazing how these boards have become the breeding grounds for pointless posts.
Not one insightful answer. Shameful.
Really? You ask a pretty pointless question, you're going to get "pointless" posts in response. I wouldn't call any of the replies pointless, myself, since they talk about their group's experience and what each creature would do in such situation. The mechanics don't really matter considering that such a battle would be decided by the DM to advance the story one way or another.
However if there was a fair fight between these horribly devious creatures, I'd put my gold on the Balor. He gets 7 vorpal attacks a round. So after 3 rounds of full-attacking he should roll at least one natural 20 and a chance to behead the Pit Fiend. He could also try to dominate the Fiend or, even better yet, the Horned Devil it would most likely summon(which the Balor's Merilith could most likely knock unconscious with a few constrictions).
In a proper fight between those they would not allow a full-round attack to occur because of the danger it poses. They both have plenty of spell like abilities that they could alternate with move actions.
Or the pit fiend could just wish that the balor can't make full attacks, since they have more spells than the balor.Anywho, it's one of those fights that I'd pay to see on TV.
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The Balor is immune to fire and has SR 31, so all of the Pit Fiend's direct damage spells are pretty useless. The Fiend also has less than a 50% chance of getting through the SR with anything else he might throw at him.
The Balor can fly faster and get up next to the Fiend every round. So if the Fiend tries to move or cast spells it will provoke an opportunity attack or risk casting defensively(I guess spell-like abilities don't get an ability modifier added onto their roll).
Then there's wish, but come on. It's wish. I suppose that since the Pit Fiend is the wicked entity granting the wish, it wouldn't pervert its own intentions as it would any other creature attempting to go outside the bounds of normal wishes. Would it?
It's amazing how these boards have become the breeding grounds for pointless posts.
Not one insightful answer. Shameful.
Wow, impressive display of bitterness, given that you've only wrote a 6 word post at first.
But... The whole thing is going to depend on whether the vorpal gets through.
If it does, well then the Fiend dies.
If it doesn't then the Fiend is superior in melee. It has better AC, better to hit bonus and better damage than the other (especially since it can afford to use power attack). And the regeneration will of course make the Balor attempt to kill it quite futile.
Shadow... you are right: 50% of your post was spot on. I posted mine right after yours and didn't have the energy to edit. lol. Sorry for including all of you.
For some of the other posts, thanks for proving my point.
On to the real responses.
Yes, the balor is extremely scary. I find myself more nervous to fight the balor than the pit fiend, which is why I started thinking about them fighting against.. they are bitter enemies after all.
The point the got me was a combination of their DR , which renders many of their attacks near useless. So the regeneration is a big point here. Plus, since the PIt Fiend is so good at grapple, he could pin the Balor and then beat him down, of course unless he teleports.
The ranged weapon attacks are mute because of the teleporting capabilities. It's really hard to see the end.
To be honest, I am a little disappointed in the Pit Fiend. I would think that the most powerful Devil would be able to bring more to the table than a couple of hits. Yes, the wish is a biggie, but not enough to make him the contender he should be. They even skimped on the picture... the balor looks scary as hell!
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It's amazing how these boards have become the breeding grounds for pointless posts.
Not one insightful answer. Shameful.
This question came up during some rounds of mock combat. Due to the pit fiends focus on combat, primarily grapple, we figured he would win over all. His healing abilities also push him over the top.
But I'm curious what the number crunchers think. Leave the pointless posts somewhere else trollers.
We'll be more serious in the future.
To be honest, I am a little disappointed in the Pit Fiend. I would think that the most powerful Devil would be able to bring more to the table than a couple of hits. Yes, the wish is a biggie, but not enough to make him the contender he should be. They even skimped on the picture... the balor looks scary as hell!
Well, I find this scary too... at least, "big spiked scaly red fiend with an expression filled with malice" sounds scary to me.
Said this, the Pit Fiend has Scrying. IMHO this can give him an edge.
For which I would prefer to face (assuming Bunny the Little Rabbit is not an option) Balor over Pit Fiend. I quote Fiendish Codex and one of my players:
FC "If you face a demon, you face one of them. If you face a devil, you face ALL of them"
PC: "in the precise moment you finally SEE the Pit Fiend, you've been scammed 20 minutes/20 days/ 20 years before".
Hey, kids! Let's put on a show!
A pbp, come one, come all. After 100 fights or so, we'd have an idea.
One of the things I've had trouble with at high levels as a GM is simply remembering all the options such powerful monsters have. It would be fun to watch better players than myself try to shred each other with those two beasts.
Definitely the balor! Why? Because I'll help him!
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Leave the pointless posts somewhere else trollers.
Oooh! Someone piddled into your soup! Now that is naughty! Someone should be sent to his room without supper! Did you see who it was? Could you pick him (or her - don't want to be discriminating against females here - or it - don't want to be discriminating against creatures without a gender, either) out in a taste lineup?
FC "If you face a demon, you face one of them. If you face a devil, you face ALL of them"Except all the other devils are only there to stab the other one in the back.
Dunno.. I se Devils ready to betray each other for internal command, but I see them more united against external threats. (Good adventure hook, BTW).
FC "If you face a demon, you face one of them. If you face a devil, you face ALL of them"Except all the other devils are only there to stab the other one in the back.
And it's not, true, either. The natural unit for demons is the Horde, or maybe swarm. Whatever you want to call a truckload full of destructive malice. They won't stay out of the fight, like someone who honours something silly like the rules for duels. They'll want in on the action.
Devils I could see honouring a duel pact (if they can't wriggle out of it).
FC "If you face a demon, you face one of them. If you face a devil, you face ALL of them"Except all the other devils are only there to stab the other one in the back.And it's not, true, either. The natural unit for demons is the Horde, or maybe swarm. Whatever you want to call a truckload full of destructive malice. They won't stay out of the fight, like someone who honours something silly like the rules for duels. They'll want in on the action.
Devils I could see honouring a duel pact (if they can't wriggle out of it).
Exactly. There may be a clause that say's he won't bring allies...but that doesn't mean he won't try to dominate YOURS.
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I'm not a math guy, but I'll take the Pit Fiend. Here's why:
First, I'm assuming no help, no summons, no created undead, and a neutral battleground. I'm also assuming the Pit Fiend doesn't use his Wish to guarantee success, but who's to say he wouldn't going up against a Balor....
Second, if the Pit Fiend successfully gets a grapple, fight is over as the Balor won't escape or teleport away without help of a Natural 20. I like the Pit Fiend's odds to confirm a grapple more than the Balor's chance to Vorpal hit, which involves not only get a natural 20 but to confirm the hit (the % to confirm aren't great).
Third, Pit Fiend, with scrying, should get a surprise round when he teleports in. He's also pre-cast Unholy Aura to get a +4 deflection bonus on his AC and saves, regardless of his opponent's alignment. The Balor is unlikely to waste a standard action casting Greater Dispel Magic when the hard-hitting Pit Fiend is pummelling him (and his chances are a tad above 50% to succeed with the spell anyways).
Fourth, spells are about useless with save and SR. Figure the Pit Fiend in the surprise round would attempt a Greater Dispel Magic to suppress the Balor's Unholy Aura (increasing his to-hit chances to a near certainty). However, because the Balor is a higher level caster, this only has a 35% chance. Still, if it works, the % to hit with the grapple skyrockets to 90% with a 40% to achieve a grapple.
Fifth, after damage reduction, the Balor isn't going to do enough damage to affect the Pit Fiend, so vorpal is his only way to win. The Pit Fiend is a bit better off. His attacks pack more punch, and without regeneration, he will win a war of attrition over the Balor.
Some Math from a non-math major:
The Balor has to crit to win. On average his sword attacks will deal around 5 damage a hit, and this will be regenerated faster than the Balor connects (which isn't often). His whip won't deal damage at all. Fortunately, he has 7 shots at a crit each time, but the kicker is that his % to confirm aren't good. On the sword, they are, descending 65%/40%/15%/5%, and the whip 60%/35%/10%. So, with a 5% chance each swing of a crit and a must-have confirm, that's .05 x (confirm %). If the Pit Fiend has Unholy Aura up, these confirmation chances drop by 20% apiece!
So, if my numbers are on, in a best case scenario without enemy having Unholy Aura..., the % of winning the battle each hit go as follows: sword - 3%/2%/2%/.003%, and whip 3%/2%/1%. Since each event is independent, the odds look bad, but given enough rounds, it'll happen. With the Aura, we can drop the 3% down to 2%, and the 2% down to 1%.
In a 10 round period, the Pit Fiend is likely to deal somewhere around (very rough estimate) 200+ damage surplus on the Balor. He's can win this battle in 20 rounds off sheer damage alone as his hits pack more punch and the Balor can't regenerate.
The Pit Fiend has substantially better #s to hit, and if it can suppress the Unholy Aura's bonus to AC, there's a near guarantee in hits. Without a successful dispel, the Fiend still connects for about 7 surplus damage (after DR) with each claw at 80% chance to hit, minimal with the wings (most will be shrugged off by DR) and I'm assuming that's worth 1 per round at 70% to hit, 80% bite for around 11 surplus + a 15% chance to inflict serious damage with STR disease due to high saves (better if Aura dispelled), and 70% tail grab (DR will absorb most hits), about 1 per round. If the free Grapple works (and that's a stretch, a +38 grapple vs. a 54 CMD is about a 20% chance to connect), the Balor can only escape on a natural 20 (+33 CMB vs a 53 CMD of the Pit Fiend). Once close up, the Pit Fiend's natural attacks and constrict (around +13 surplus per round) will end this battle. (The Balor won't be able to teleport out of grapple since it would also take a natural 20 to succeed). By the time that rolls around, the Balor should be dead. That's a 14% chance each round to end the battle (hit with tail + confirm grapple) versus a slew of 3%... seven times. Finally, none of this takes into account the reduction of STR and chances if the disease takes hold. Ack.
How's this play out? I have no clue. I need those guys off Deadliest Warrior to plug it into a machine.
But going with the odds, I'd take the Pit Fiend in 1000 battle scenarios as being more likely to achieve a grapple and tear the Balor to shreds before the Balor can confirm a natural 20 crit.
The natural unit for demons is the Horde, or maybe swarm. Whatever you want to call a truckload full of destructive malice.How about a "forum" of demons?
Demons are not THAT C/E.
M P is pretty much spot on here. I saw the numbers run a few years ago on the 3.5 Balor vs. Pit Fiend, and at that time the odds were remarkably bad for the Balor. They've gotten a little better in Pathfinder, but he's still fishing for a crit, and once the grapple starts the fight is over.
In a single battle the Balor can win, but in the majority of them the Balor will lose.
In terms of difficulty caused to parties however, I'll take a Pit Fiend over a Balor most days of the week. The demon brings so much to the table that can utterly screw a party it isn't even funny, while the devil's constrict loses a great deal of its sting with you still have 3 other PCs who can act.
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I think that if you pit a Balor against a Pit Fiend the devil will most likely mop the floor with it.
The major factors of the fight are the devil shaping and the regeneration abilities of the pit fiend aside from the spell like abilities they both have.
If spell like abilities don't come in play,the both can summon powerful allies with a pit fiend leading by being able to shape another of it's kind three times per day.
The death throws and the vorpal weapons of the Balor don't matter to a creature with regeneration except as hindrance (it won't die from them and if it has diehard it will continue to fight).
In a brawl the pit fiend wins any day as it has a greater number of natural weapons,greater AC,an edge for tactical fighting against enemies of his size with grapple and constrict,debilitating abilities such as poison and disease greater chances to hit and greater damage backing its strikes.Again the regeneration plays an important part.
If now we use the spell like abilities of both we can see the following:
It can create even more servants with create undead (preferably touch attacking,strength or level draining ones).
The power word stun of both creatures can greatly help end the fight when they reach 150 or fewer hp on a roll of 11 for the Balor and 13 for the Pit Fiend. Although it would seem that the Balor has the upper hand here with its 20 more hp and the 10% more chance to bypass the SR this is hardly the case.Regeneration,AC and higher damage are the most important in this case and the Pit Fiend leads in all of them.
A good strategy for the Balor is to hold its distance and try to find a way to dominate the Devil.The chance isn't very fat if the pit fiend has boosted itself with 1000(the dispel destroys one per casting) unholy auras (which make it immune to the effects of dominate) after noticing the Balor with its greater scrying but if it doesn't it has a chance.
Implosion is a deadly weapon with little success rating (1/day) on the side of Balor but the same can also be said about the hold monster ability of the Pit Fiend.
The Pit Fiend also has trap the soul at will ,an ability the other cannot become immune to,ends the fight for good in case it succeeds and can be used with tricks like dropping a weapon or item deliberately in order persuade the opponent to touch it and reed the spell of its last weaknesses.
At last,if we include the wish the Pit Fiend has,the Balor is probably doomed.The simplest effects to use are the transport traveler ability of the wish to summon creatures that are known to it,heal all its hp or any specific condition with the duplication of any spell at the most crucial moment,generate and antimagic field and grapple the Balor,confer a -7 to the Balor's next save or better yet automatically succeed on its attempt to grapple it as per the limited wish effect(so now no natural 16 is required) and so on.
At last if we compare Pit Fiend Infernal Dukes and Balor Lords you will notice a very disturbing difference.The Infernal Dukes can take up more than one special abilities and the Balor Lords cannot.
Ergo:Devil eats Demon.
Definitely the balor! Why? Because I'll help him!
You once again cause me to laugh out loud on my computer, literally.
Do you know how stupid it makes me look to just laugh out loud? and my explanations never suffice to the people I am with... sigh.
Anyways, the Balor and the Pit Fiend wouldn't fight.
Ever, and if they did it wouldn't be to the death, or even near it.
One of them would cop out and leave or pull some dirty manuever.
Devils screw other devils just as often as demons screw other demons, the only difference is mindset. Which is blurry at best.
"Did you here Asmodeus has sent his armies to fight Graz'zt?" -- Malphesto
"You don't say?" -- Baphomet
"This is the perfect time for that thirty thousand year plan we saved!" -- Maphesto
"Sooner than expected! Hooray!" -- Baphomet
Baphomet "I am going to screw you at the last minute and tell asmodeus" he thought
Maphesto "I cannot believe he is falling for this, calling in that favor to Graz'zt was worth it!" mused the demon lord.
Baphomet "I will take Graz'zts strong hold while he is weak, then I can rule a piece of the abyss and a layer of hell!" -- pondered the mighty immortal
Maphesto "Just wait until Baphomet tries to take the abyss, then I will inform Demogorgon of Graz'zts absense and the two will accidently fight in a sea of agony!" *giggle* at the thought.
"you seem to be in high spirits Maphesto" -- Baphomet
"Oh you know, just the luck of the devil these days" -- Maphesto
Definitely the balor! Why? Because I'll help him!You once again cause me to laugh out loud on my computer, literally.
Do you know how stupid it makes me look to just laugh out loud? and my explanations never suffice to the people I am with... sigh.
You ask me whether I know? Getting people into situations like this is my cunning masterplan, and my super villain power.
That and make people choke on their drinks.
Definitely the balor! Why? Because I'll help him!You once again cause me to laugh out loud on my computer, literally.
Do you know how stupid it makes me look to just laugh out loud? and my explanations never suffice to the people I am with... sigh.
You ask me whether I know? Getting people into situations like this is my cunning masterplan, and my super villain power.
That and make people choke on their drinks.
My nose has never been the same since I read your first post. I almost enjoy milk that way now..
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It seems like every time this Thread gets started, the Pit Fiend wins.
I'd have to go back to the archives and check but I'm pretty sure all the past "Pit Fiend vs Balor" Threads have the devil winning by a landslide.
Sure, you have a few posters that somehow think Chaos is better than Law (not everyone gets to be smart, afterall) but most people on Paizo are pretty smart folks.
My nose has never been the same since I read your first post. I almost enjoy milk that way now..Definitely the balor! Why? Because I'll help him!You once again cause me to laugh out loud on my computer, literally.
Do you know how stupid it makes me look to just laugh out loud? and my explanations never suffice to the people I am with... sigh.
You ask me whether I know? Getting people into situations like this is my cunning masterplan, and my super villain power.
That and make people choke on their drinks.
Milk? Could have been worse. Could have been some isotonic grapefruit drink. That's how I got a friend of mine.
It seems like every time this Thread gets started, the Pit Fiend wins.
I'd have to go back to the archives and check but I'm pretty sure all the past "Pit Fiend vs Balor" Threads have the devil winning by a landslide.
Yeah, and that would be really helpful to your pit bull if only fights to the death were won by popular vote...
It seems like every time this Thread gets started, the Pit Fiend wins.
I'd have to go back to the archives and check but I'm pretty sure all the past "Pit Fiend vs Balor" Threads have the devil winning by a landslide.
Sure, you have a few posters that somehow think Chaos is better than Law (not everyone gets to be smart, afterall) but most people on Paizo are pretty smart folks.
Chaos=/=stupid
Law=/=smart
:)
The fact that something is unpredictable can be just as unsettling.
having plans can only mean that those plans have the possibility to go wrong. Chaos means you dont have to have plans.
If it were that obvious who was going to kill who the abyss wouldn't exist, it would just be a massive hell :)
all a matter of opinion but I think the Joker (arch villain) would be offended by your statement about Chaos haha
I think this thread is really not important because neither of those two would directly fight each other.
Also Demons are typically smart, crafty, guileful basterds. They do have plans even though they aren't lawful, they just don't always stick to those plans because they don't care.
Graz'zt from DnD was a great example of a smart powerful Demon (owned 3 layers of the abyss what a bad ass!)
and KaeYoss
It was Mountain Dew once... ouch.
I hope this doesn't start the Law owns chaos! NO! Chaos owns Law! thread . . . :S
It seems like every time this Thread gets started, the Pit Fiend wins.
I'd have to go back to the archives and check but I'm pretty sure all the past "Pit Fiend vs Balor" Threads have the devil winning by a landslide.
Sure, you have a few posters that somehow think Chaos is better than Law (not everyone gets to be smart, afterall) but most people on Paizo are pretty smart folks.
Chaos=/=stupid
Law=/=smart
Don't mind Order Boy over there. He's not used to thinking for or by himself. He relies on other people to do his thinking and make decisions for him.
Chelaxians have books with orders they follow, and he's no exception. He often does really weird stuff because the book tells him to. He still hasn't figured out that when I was over there, I messed up his book.
That's why he collects Trading Cards featuring fruits and vegetables.
Thanks everyone for all the great answers. This was the thought I had as well.
I might have the scenario come up in one of my games. Seeing how the battles play out in other peoples minds helps.
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Oooh, that reminds me, I recently found the platinum edition, yellow background variation of the Duncan Grapefruit!!!
Eat it, Chaos-boy!
Hey, where else but on the backs of those cards can one learn that all bananas are female and that the strawberry is in the rose family?!
And remember, if you're not nice I won't invite you to this year's party where you can drool over my dinner plate, white hibiscus, so you better be careful.
Pit Fiend wins AGAIN!
Creative Director
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How 'bout this,
Balor was just some lame one-eyed giant-king.
Please.Asmodeus, on the other hand, is one of the principal Devil Kings in myth.
At least Balor has a name that has thousands of years of tradition. Pit Fiend is just two words mashed together, like toilet brush or canker sore or hobo scab.
Also, balors have more eyes than pit fiends.
Oh YaY! Vorpal weapons -- oh... wait what's that? Vorpal is useless against regeneration?
Oops...
Also the dominate monster stuff is going to be useless on both sides since both have unholy aura.
The Pit Fiend's AC is wrong by the way for the same reason -- it isn't including Unholy Aura which puts him up to an AC 42 (and raises his CMD by 4 more)... his save throws are also wrong they should be: Fort +28 Ref +25 Will +23
I'm calculating the Balor's base stats as:
AC 37 (10 base +17 natural -1 large +7 Dex +4 Deflection)
His save throws are correct and include unholy aura: Fort +29 Reflex +17 Will +25
Now:
The Pit Fiend will hit the balor on a 5 or more with his claws and bite and on a 7 or more with his wings or tail slap. This gives us a 80% hit rate with primary weaponry and a 70% hit rate with secondary.
His average damage with a claw is 23, bite is 27, wing is 13, tail is 15 -- before power attack.
With power attack he takes a -6 to hit with each attack, putting him at a 50% chance with primary weapons and a 40% chance with secondary but adds 12 to each of his primary attacks and 6 to his secondary -- resulting in the following DPRs after the balor's DR:
No power attack:24.4 DPR
Power Attack: 48 DPR
The Balor is going to hit the Pit Fiend Much less often: 50%/25%/5%/5% with his sword and 45%/20%/5%/ with his whip -- before power attack. His average sword damage is 20 (without power attack) and his average whip damage is 10 (without power attack).
With power attack his chances to hit are next to nothing: 20%/5%/5%/5% with his sword and 15%/5%/5% with the whip. But when he does hit he'll manage some damage with average damage of 32 and 22.
DPR:
No Power Attack: 4
Power attack: 6
Mobility is a non-issue in this fight -- the balor is more mobile but unable to avoid AoO's while doing so and without the ability to hit the pit fiend and the pit fiend able to teleport as a standard action as well he's got the upper hand -- and if he hits with the tail he can grapple the balor with a 30% success rate -- meaning after about 3 rounds he'll probably get it -- and honestly his best bet is to just standard attack with the tail as a vital strike until he does get the grapple. With such a tactic his DPR is 9 after DR -- however getting the grapple on would really help his cause since the balor is unlikely to be able to use spell like abilities while grappled (DC 49 with a +28 on the check -- he needs more than a natural twenty -- and therefore can not succeed).
In Fact even better would be for the Pit Fiend to charge the Balor each round the balor only spends a move action to get away (after the AoO with the tail of course) attacking with the tail.
Since the Pit Fiend is grappling with his tail his claws, wings, and bite are free to tear into the Balor each round -- the balor has weapons in his hands and is therefore taking a -4 to break free each round until he drops his weapons, leaving him with only 2 slam attacks each round.
The Balor's only real hope in this fight is to use Implosion on round 1 and hope that the Pit Fiend fails its save.
Especially since the Pit Fiend can fight this attrition battle better due to his Regeneration -- which the balor lacks.
End results:
Balor can't really hit the Pit Fiend. Pit Fiend can hit the Balor. Spell-like abilities aren't really going to matter since both are basically immune. Pit Fiend can grapple the Balor and the Balor has a hard time escaping until he weakens himself by dropping his weaponry. What damage the Balor can inflicted the Pit Fiend will heal. Vorpal isn't going to matter since the Pit Fiend's head heals back (again with regeneration).
The Pit Fiend also has the small chance to set up a Trap the Soul with the Trigger function which doesn't allow a save or spell resistance -- but that would be hard to do and require more time and planning than are likely permitted.
Final result: FATALITY! PIT FIEND WINS!
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All kidding aside (now that we officially won! again), my impression of the Blood War is that evil outsiders have been specifically designed so that individual devils are slightly stronger than their demon counterparts becasuse there are so many more demons than their betters -- devils.
The FCII, for example, has a random encounter whereupon a Pit Fiend general is walking back home from an engagement in the Blood War where his brilliantly orchestrated strategy meant little as he was so outnumbered by the stupid, er, chaotic hordes of demons who took ridiculous loses throwing themselves haphazardly in battle but pushed back the much smaller and well functioning devil army.
This kind of thing is implied over and over in published material. Devils are better but there are just so many demons that the Blood War will always be a stalemate.
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More importantly, there are NO smart demons!
D&D Evil Outsider Designers, from Gygax to Sargent to Jacobs, have occassionally put in some "smart" demons (read: lawful) just so that there's some variety. Look at Graz'zt; ain't no way he's anything but Lawful if you look at his Fluff. And don't get started on Fraz Urb'Luu.
Likewise, they've put the occassional stupid (read: chaotic) devil in the 9 hells just so that it doesn't seem like devils are all cookie-cutter copies.
This way individual gamers can have different demon or devil personalities in their games and still play what they want.
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All kidding aside (now that we officially won! again), my impression of the Blood War is that evil outsiders have been specifically designed so that individual devils are slightly stronger than their demon counterparts because there are so many more demons than their betters -- devils.
The FCII, for example, has a random encounter whereupon a Pit Fiend general is walking back home from an engagement in the Blood War where his brilliantly orchestrated strategy meant little as he was so outnumbered by the stupid, er, chaotic hordes of demons who took ridiculous loses throwing themselves haphazardly in battle but pushed back the much smaller and well functioning devil army.
This kind of thing is implied over and over in published material. Devils are better but there are just so many demons that the Blood War will always be a stalemate.
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More importantly, there are NO smart demons!
D&D Evil Outsider Designers, from Gygax to Sargent to Jacobs, have occassionally put in some "smart" demons (read: lawful) just so that there's some variety. Look at Graz'zt; ain't no way he's anything but Lawful if you look at his Fluff. And don't get started on Fraz Urb'Luu.
Likewise, they've put the occassional stupid (read: chaotic) devil in the 9 hells just so that it doesn't seem like devils are all cookie-cutter copies.
This way individual gamers can have different demon or devil personalities in their games and still play what they want. If I want my BBEG to be a cool, calculating Demon, I can have one (even though none could really exist).