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I would rather not follow the logic that we must all be jerky in order to desensatize newcomers to the jerks. Luckily, the OP in this thread started another thread with his build, and people seem to be alittle more helpful there.
There are several dozen people here who bandy about their superior knowledge of the game. If they can't apply that knowledge constructively in the one situation where it is helpful, that is shameful.
I agree 100%, folks need to be more respectful and try to be helpful, particularly with new posters but just in general, that or just keep quiet...
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Eidolon with Diehard can act at -X HP. It is still staggered and disabled however. That means that it can only take a move or standard action, not a full round action (because of being staggered). And if the action it takes is a standard action (or swift/immediate) it take 1 point of damage because of being disabled.
I have seen it several times where people believe the Eidolon is still fully functional at -Con +1 HP and it should not be. And of course player at 0 HP who wish to draw (move action) and drink (standard action) a potion in the same round cannot.
The main benefit from diehard is that it's much easier to get it back in the fight if you can heal it up. If it falls unconscious, then it drops weapons, is prone and needs to stand up again, its AC and reflex go into the toilet, it can be coup de graced, etc.
I've been playing a summoner from levels 1-3 with a pounce build eidolon and so far he has definitively not been overpowered. The party's paladin is using a two hander and consistently does more damage without even using smite. Plus about half of our enemies have been undead. The eidolon has a lot of trouble getting past their damage reduction with his 1d6+2 claw/bite attacks.
I will admit that the fact that we're using 25 point buy might be shifting things a bit (eidolons don't scale with point buy), but honestly so far I don't see a problem with the class in my game.
Derek Pecator II
Human Fighter 4
Abilities
Str 18 (+2 Racial, +1 4th level)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 9
Cha 7
Feats (6)(CF 3)(Human 1)
- Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain, Human)
- Furious Focus
- Combat Expertise (-2 attack, +2 dodge AC)
- Improved Trip (Fighter)
- Improved Disarm (Fighter)
- Power Attack (no minus to attack(see furious focus), +6 damage)
Special Abilities:
Bravery (+1 saves against fear)
Armor Training (+1 max dex, reduced ACP)
HP: 38 (10 1st, 5 2nd, 6 3rd, 5 4th, +4 FC)
AC: 21 (+9 Full Plate, +2 Dex) 23 (Combat Expertise)
Saving throws: +8 Fort, +5 Ref , +4 Will
CMB +8 (+12 Disarm, +10 trip) can drop weapon to avoid trip
CMD 20
Spiked Chain (masterwork) +13(+12 CE) to disarm, +11(+10 CE) to trip, +9 to hit (+8 CE) +13(+12) while prone
Damage: 2d4 +12
Long Bow +6 (1d8) X3
Equipment (5699 gp 1 sp 1 cp)
Full Plate +1 (2650 gp)
Masterwork Spiked Chain (325 gp)
Cloak of Resistance +2 (2000 gp)
Tangle Foot Bag X 2(100 gp)
Thunderstone X 2 (60 gp)
Caltrops X 3 (1 gp)
Bed Roll (1 sp)
Torch (1 cp)
Smoke Sticks X4 (80 gp)
Manacles (15 gp)
Bow (75 gp)
20 arrows (1 gp)
Stealth Boots +2 (400 gp)
Skills 4 per level (2 +int + human)
ACP -4 (-6 base, +1 Armor training, +1 Masterwork)
+7 Perception (max ranks), +6 stealth(max ranks)(+4 ranks, +2 Dex, +2 Boots), +4 Climb (1 rank)(-4, +4, +4), Knowledge dungeoneering +5(1 rank), Knowledge Engineering +5 (1 rank), +0 swim (1 rank), Diplomacy +2 (max ranks)
Traits:
Combat Expertise minus reduced by 1
(The APG said 2 is usually the standard so if there were 2 he would pick one to either make stealth or diplomacy a class skill, didn't look)
Conclusion :
First Derek has been in the field a while so he comes prepared.
When the enemy is first sighted he would attempt to throw a ranged tangle foot bag or drop some caltrops for battle field control. With his high Reflex he would most likely avoid the problem even if he were to somehow (unlikely) include himself in the area.
He would then attempt to disarm any weapons, and/or trip either after the disarm or during a provoked AoO to pick up the weapon. During this battle period, Derek would be using combat expertise as attacking is not his major dispute, if the target proved formidable to defend his attempts to trip and disarm he would attempt without combat expertise shortly after or perhaps use a method below depending on how easily the attempt was thwarted (perception to notice).
Once the target was removed of all carried weapons and/or prone he would commence using power attack on said target.
Being the loving man he is if the target decided to relieve himself, he would bring the target into custody using his manacles.
If it was a ranged opponent Derek would attempt to close on the target.
if the target became subject to the tanglefoot bags in his possession he would proceed to fire with ranged weapons from cover somewhere in the environment. With no cover derek would approach to disarm opponents ranged weapon and then proceed to range himself or if the opponent had no ranged weapon stand from a distance and fire until the enemy surrendered or was dropped.
If derek was threatened severly he would drop a smoke stick and attempt to gain leverage in the combat by moving outside the smoke. His method would be to step backwards from the target, use the full concealment to hide (roll a stealth check) and ready an action to attack any creature that came within 5 ft.
If Derek were to see the said person casting a spell at any time, he would throw a thunderstone to attempt to discombobulate said caster.
If he had prior knowledge (or aquired knowledge) that a spellcaster would be his enemy, he would throw smoke sticks first, then proceed to throw thunder stones in the direction of the target while attempting stealth against his deafened opponent.
If the opponent had senses (found out they had no blind sense, scent, blindsight, ect.) he might attempt smoke stick, thunderstone, stealth combo.
Not saying derek would win but I think its at least close :)
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I've been playing a summoner from levels 1-3 with a pounce build eidolon and so far he has definitively not been overpowered. The party's paladin is using a two hander and consistently does more damage without even using smite. Plus about half of our enemies have been undead. The eidolon has a lot of trouble getting past their damage reduction with his 1d6+2 claw/bite attacks.
I will admit that the fact that we're using 25 point buy might be shifting things a bit (eidolons don't scale with point buy), but honestly so far I don't see a problem with the class in my game.
What type of damage reduction is he having trouble with?
Eidolons usually do great against the typical low level undead beCause they have both slash and bludgeon covered. Silver is tougher but I cant think of any low level undead w silver off the top of my head.
I've been playing a summoner from levels 1-3 with a pounce build eidolon and so far he has definitively not been overpowered. The party's paladin is using a two hander and consistently does more damage without even using smite. Plus about half of our enemies have been undead. The eidolon has a lot of trouble getting past their damage reduction with his 1d6+2 claw/bite attacks.
I will admit that the fact that we're using 25 point buy might be shifting things a bit (eidolons don't scale with point buy), but honestly so far I don't see a problem with the class in my game.
What type of damage reduction is he having trouble with?
Eidolons usually do great against the typical low level undead beCause they have both slash and bludgeon covered. Silver is tougher but I cant think of any low level undead w silver off the top of my head.
I think he was stuck on the Bite being piercing like in 3.5, now it covers piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing if a remember.
I've been playing a summoner from levels 1-3 with a pounce build eidolon and so far he has definitively not been overpowered. The party's paladin is using a two hander and consistently does more damage without even using smite. Plus about half of our enemies have been undead. The eidolon has a lot of trouble getting past their damage reduction with his 1d6+2 claw/bite attacks.
I will admit that the fact that we're using 25 point buy might be shifting things a bit (eidolons don't scale with point buy), but honestly so far I don't see a problem with the class in my game.
What type of damage reduction is he having trouble with?
Eidolons usually do great against the typical low level undead beCause they have both slash and bludgeon covered. Silver is tougher but I cant think of any low level undead w silver off the top of my head.
Hmmm, I must be making a mistake somewhere.... *looks up the natural weapon rules*
Dang it, I really was messing up XD I had been assuming that bites were piercing/bludgeoning and claws were just slashing. I didn't realize that bites were all three and claws were slashing/bludgeoning. I should have been doing roughly 5 more points of damage per round XD Oh well, we came out fine in the fights in the end, I guess I'll just do a lot better in future fights.
For the record, even with this I'm fairly certain the paladin would still have consistently out damaged me during those fights. Though, I think the eidolon would have come a lot closer to matching him when he wasn't using smite. We also did run into a group of wererats, and he wasn't able to do anything at all against their DR 10/silver, lol.
Derek Pecator II
My eidolon could hit Derek on a 15 (with Combat Expertise), dealing an average of 11 points of damage per round. He would drop Derek in 13 or 16 rounds. That's a hell lot of rounds, so you would probably win. :)
For the record, even with this I'm fairly certain the paladin would still have consistently out damaged me during those fights. Though, I think the eidolon would have come a lot closer to matching him when he wasn't using smite. We also did run into a group of wererats, and he wasn't able to do anything at all against their DR 10/silver, lol.
/TANGENT ALERT/
How did you guys fare in that encounter in general? I have been discussing with a fellow player that Were's (and other material/alignment DR critters)seem like a solid enemy at lower levels of play.
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For the record, even with this I'm fairly certain the paladin would still have consistently out damaged me during those fights. Though, I think the eidolon would have come a lot closer to matching him when he wasn't using smite. We also did run into a group of wererats, and he wasn't able to do anything at all against their DR 10/silver, lol./TANGENT ALERT/
How did you guys fare in that encounter in general? I have been discussing with a fellow player that Were's (and other material/alignment DR critters)seem like a solid enemy at lower levels of play.
Yeah eidolons have a rough go with material DR. There are ways to work around it but it's definitely one of their weaknesses.
Derek Pecator IIMy eidolon could hit Derek on a 15 (with Combat Expertise), dealing an average of 11 points of damage per round. He would drop Derek in 13 or 16 rounds. That's a hell lot of rounds, so you would probably win. :)
To be perfectly honest I would have been more worried about the summoner which is why I packed the thunder stones haha
not to say your build still couldnt be effective, especially if you used that devastating Haste.
With that said though my will save is rather low (+2 I changed my scores around a bit and wisdom was originall higher) so you could target me there.
He has his weaknesses but he is more of a control the situation guy than a beat the shit outta you guy.
Heck, I'm more concerned about the summoner getting Haste a level sooner than the wizard than his pet.
(Then again I'm used to Astral Constructs).
It isn't so much a big deal because haste basically makes him dependent on another.
The eidolon is a threat, but it definitely isn't out of the realm of beatable (as I have shown with my level 4 fighter versus his level 4 Summoner/Eidolon. Not to say this is an accurate representation of all eidolons or fighters or whatever.)
Haste essentially means the summoner needs someone else to be good. Even if he is going in and swinging, it still requires a round to buff in combat and with a very cheap affordable thunderstone you make all buff spells fail on a 1 in 5 chance.
Haste was essentially designed to make his goodies move faster. to make himself move fast and attack might not always be the best root, though a plausible one.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Heck, I'm more concerned about the summoner getting Haste a level sooner than the wizard than his pet.
(Then again I'm used to Astral Constructs).
It isn't so much a big deal because haste basically makes him dependent on another.
The eidolon is a threat, but it definitely isn't out of the realm of beatable (as I have shown with my level 4 fighter versus his level 4 Summoner/Eidolon. Not to say this is an accurate representation of all eidolons or fighters or whatever.)
Haste essentially means the summoner needs someone else to be good. Even if he is going in and swinging, it still requires a round to buff in combat and with a very cheap affordable thunderstone you make all buff spells fail on a 1 in 5 chance.
Haste was essentially designed to make his goodies move faster. to make himself move fast and attack might not always be the best root, though a plausible one.
Well my concern was at 4th level, he can haste everyone execpt himself (for the proverbial 4 man band lineup) likely twice a day. Not sure how much it changes the flow of battle in play, but it seems a bit to me.
For the record, even with this I'm fairly certain the paladin would still have consistently out damaged me during those fights. Though, I think the eidolon would have come a lot closer to matching him when he wasn't using smite. We also did run into a group of wererats, and he wasn't able to do anything at all against their DR 10/silver, lol./TANGENT ALERT/
How did you guys fare in that encounter in general? I have been discussing with a fellow player that Were's (and other material/alignment DR critters)seem like a solid enemy at lower levels of play.
Well, it seems like players can often handle DR 5 at low levels of play with only a little difficulty. If it gets up to DR 10 though then only two handed weapon + power attack users and spellcasters are capable of doing anything without the proper materials. It depends on your group, though I would recommend that most of the weres be infected rather than natural lycans.
Why is this strength based figher using a spiked chain?
Good question. I could rant all day about the mechanics behind nerfing the spiked chain, and why it shouldn't have been done, but that's beside the point. What is the point is the guy should be wielding a guisearme, which is a martial weapon (yay no feat tax), deals the the same 2d4 damage, gives tripping, reach, and a x3 critical multiplier (x4 if you're a 20th level fighter), and you can use armor spikes or gauntlets to attack adjacent foes.
Alternatively, wield a heavy flail. 1d10, 19-20/x2, disarm, trip, 2 handed, martial weapon. Better than the spiked chain in every way.
The eidolon is a threat, but it definitely isn't out of the realm of beatable (as I have shown with my level 4 fighter versus his level 4 Summoner/Eidolon. Not to say this is an accurate representation of all eidolons or fighters or whatever.)
The eidolon was defeated by Derek (who was a sub-optimal fighter by the way, no offense meant) in a fight where the summoner was doing nothing, so it is not a broken feature of the summoner's class all by itself.
However, if Solom Ned'Razak, our 4th-level summoner, had all his spells left (not likely, but possible), then it would be a very different story:
1st round - the summoner casts invisibility on himself, the eidolon attacks.
2nd round - the summoner casts mage armor on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
3rd round - the summoner casts shield on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
4th round - the summoner casts bull's strength on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
5th round - the summoner casts rejuvenate eidolon on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
6th round - the summoner casts rejuvenate eidolon on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
Remember that Derek needs to deal something like 80 points of damage to the eidolon to win the fight, because of the Diehard + Life Link trick. The shield + mage armor combo on the eidolon gives him +7 (8 minus 1 from bracers of mage armor) to AC. That's huge for a creature who already gots +6 natural armor bonus. If you want this fight to have no end, you can replace bull's strength by barkskin. :D
My conclusion is that the summoner seems to be quite balanced, or he is balanced at this specific level (4th) at least.
His battle strategy
Did you even read my battle strategy?
I throw a thunder stone at you. you now have to make a fortitude save or become deafened (not likely). That means 20% spell failure chance.
Second, drop a smoke stick. Step back into the smoke and wait. With the 50% concealment I will use stealth, which I maxed ranks in to make him pretty decent at, I don't think your eidolon has a great chance of seeing me :). Lastly i would like to point out it is going to be more difficult to cast spells on an eidolon you can't see.
Whenever you come within five feet of me (if you use stealth I have a pretty good perception to see you) I will attempt to disarm the weapon you are holding. Because I have a +12 to disarm and your CMD isnt very high the sword is likely to go bye bye.
Now that I have disarmed your sword in the smoke you are likely to not find it, especially if it lands in my square and I kick it. You may attack me this round but with my combat expertise up and you without your weapon you are sitting at a very low chance to hit my 23 AC.
Then next round I trip you, or if I feel you are unthreatening I will just swing away using power attack.
The 20% chance to fail your spells and the low chance for you to find me with a reduced perception and such makes the summoner less threatening. If he wants to come into the smoke and dance that is totally fine but I will take my chances.
I do have a 20% chance to miss from close range with my spiked chain (due to the smoke) but your eidolon's reach is in effective.
Also if I had enough time (unlikely but maybe) I would also throw a tanglefoot bag the summoner's way just to keep him out of my hair.
Lastly, the reason I chose a spiked chain is because if you go to my profile one of my favorite characters is Derek. I said I was making a character with flavor, I did.
The battle strategy is what made him effective, not the spiked chain or the unmunchkinned part of him.
My fighter is perfectly viable, fun to roleplay, creative, and smart.
I should know I played him once :)
The eidolon is a threat, but it definitely isn't out of the realm of beatable (as I have shown with my level 4 fighter versus his level 4 Summoner/Eidolon. Not to say this is an accurate representation of all eidolons or fighters or whatever.)The eidolon was defeated by Derek (who was a sub-optimal fighter by the way, no offense meant) in a fight where the summoner was doing nothing, so it is not a broken feature of the summoner's class all by itself.
However, if Solom Ned'Razak, our 4th-level summoner, had all his spells left (not likely, but possible), then it would be a very different story:
1st round - the summoner casts invisibility on himself, the eidolon attacks.
2nd round - the summoner casts mage armor on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
3rd round - the summoner casts shield on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
4th round - the summoner casts bull's strength on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
5th round - the summoner casts rejuvenate eidolon on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.
6th round - the summoner casts rejuvenate eidolon on the eidolon, the eidolon attacks.Remember that Derek needs to deal something like 80 points of damage to the eidolon to win the fight, because of the Diehard + Life Link trick. The shield + mage armor combo on the eidolon gives him +7 (8 minus 1 from bracers of mage armor) to AC. That's huge for a creature who already gots +6 natural armor bonus. If you want this fight to have no end, you can replace bull's strength by barkskin. :D
My conclusion is that the summoner seems to be quite balanced, or he is balanced at this specific level (4th) at least.
mage armor does not stack with your bracers of armor, and shield I believe also wont stack with your deflection bonus. The bull's strength will be a touch attack and if I get a tanglefoot bag off or the thunderstone that becomes a little more difficult. As for the invisibility if you cast any spells that goes away.
EDIT: also i was under the impression barkskin didn't stack with already existing natural armor.
Even if all of this does boost your AC, it is all assuming all your spells get off (which if I get a smoke stick down and a thunderstone your way unlikely), it still does not raise your CMD, and it is going to be considerably easier to hit your eidolon on the ground, when he has sword to swing because of trip and disarm.
My fighter is far from not enough to beat you. He has got alot going his way.
His weakness is will save's. That is for certain... but I didnt see you cast any of those :)
Lastly, the reason I chose a spiked chain is because if you go to my profile one of my favorite characters is Derek. I said I was making a character with flavor, I did.
The battle strategy is what made him effective, not the spiked chain or the unmunchkinned part of him.
My fighter is perfectly viable, fun to...
Indeed. I like your strategy. Very nice. It hurts me in my brain to see you sacrificing a feat for a weapon, when you could have just re-fluffed a heavy flail (no feat, and it can easily be a big chain). Then again, I made spiked chains martial weapons in my games, and gave them reach if you spent the EWP on them.
This post was just fun commentary.
Lastly, the reason I chose a spiked chain is because if you go to my profile one of my favorite characters is Derek. I said I was making a character with flavor, I did.
The battle strategy is what made him effective, not the spiked chain or the unmunchkinned part of him.
My fighter is perfectly viable, fun to...
Indeed. I like your strategy. Very nice. It hurts me in my brain to see you sacrificing a feat for a weapon, when you could have just re-fluffed a heavy flail (no feat, and it can easily be a big chain). Then again, I made spiked chains martial weapons in my games, and gave them reach if you spent the EWP on them.
This post was just fun commentary.
yeah he was my homeboy back in 3.5...
You have no idea how mad I was when one of my reoccuring NPC's in all my campaigns was nerfed..
I REFUSE to change it from a spiked chain to a heavy flail. Derek would never do that, it belonged to his father.
Oh I don't think so. The reply wasn't even that snarky compared to what you get in your average gish thread. If they are gonna have the you all better agree with me or else attitude in a DISCUSSION forum, I think it best if we do just chase them off right away so we don't have to deal with em.An indignant attitude drove a poster off of the forums. In future, we might want to consider starting a thread with "this is a common complaint, here's a link" instead of "here we go again".
This kind of thread is only as contentious as we make it. It makes me sad that we couldn't help him, since I think we could have done something constructive for his game. :(
-1.
I would rather not follow the logic that we must all be jerky in order to desensatize newcomers to the jerks. Luckily, the OP in this thread started another thread with his build, and people seem to be alittle more helpful there.
There are several dozen people here who bandy about their superior knowledge of the game. If they can't apply that knowledge constructively in the one situation where it is helpful, that is shameful.
Sorry, I have zero sympathy for someone who comes onto the boards with as huge a chip on their shoulder as the original poster obviously had. Go back and re-read his first and second posts. It was screamingly obvious that he was absolutely set in his view and was not willing to listen to any reason. None of the first three replies were snarky at all; in fact, the one he replied to was quite polite. His reply was still "Screw you guys, I'm taking my ball and going home, and you're all dumb-face yesmen!".
stuff
Now I'd really like to see your eidelon and summoner combo. I'm thinking this... :)
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Sorry, I have zero sympathy for someone who comes onto the boards with as huge a chip on their shoulder as the original poster obviously had. Go back and re-read his first and second posts. It was screamingly obvious that he was absolutely set in his view and was not willing to listen to any reason. None of the first three replies were snarky at all; in fact, the one he replied to was quite polite. His reply was still "Screw you guys, I'm taking my ball and going home, and you're all dumb-face yesmen!".
But he doesn't care what we think :)
Sorry, I have zero sympathy for someone who comes onto the boards with as huge a chip on their shoulder as the original poster obviously had. Go back and re-read his first and second posts. It was screamingly obvious that he was absolutely set in his view and was not willing to listen to any reason. None of the first three replies were snarky at all; in fact, the one he replied to was quite polite. His reply was still "Screw you guys, I'm taking my ball and going home, and you're all dumb-face yesmen!".
Ya know me and Zurai rarely agree, but he is spot on here. The OP did not like the replies he was getting and none of those were rude at all.
Stuff.
First, I never said your fighter was not viable. I said it was sub-optimal, like in a ''non-munchkin fighter'' sense, which is a good thing in my perspective. Also, my eidolon wasn't optimised either (going for the martial weapon proficiency evolution is quite sub-optimal), so it's a fair fight. :)
Second, I didn't said the summoner would win the fight, I said it would be a very different story : a much harder challenge for Derek instead of a auto-win like in the previous fight. There's to many random factors to be sure about the result of the fight: the initiative winner (we both have the same initiative modifier, so does invisibility come into play before the thunder stone?), the success of the thunder stone tactics (roughly 50%), the spell failure chance (20%) if said tactic worked, the map layout (the summoner and his eidolon could just wait behind a wall/rock/tree while the smoke slowly dissipates, waiting for the fighter to come out of hiding, as you could act in the same way, waiting for the magic buffs to dissipate), etc. Permanently disarming the eidolon don't make him useless, he still gots 2 claw attacks at +7, dealing 1d4+4 with each attack. It may even turn as a boon for him, who knows? :P
I'm sorry if my previous post offended you, but maybe you should re-read my conclusion, where I said that the summoner seemed to be quite balanced. I found nothing overpowered at this level at least. Fighting is a fighter thing, so I expect Derek to win the fight, which seems very probable. No matter the result, that would be a very interesting fight that I'd like to see playing before my eyes. (;
EDIT: I was not aware that invisibility go off after casting a non-offensive spell. This is something new to Pathfinder I guess. Same thing about barkskin, it used to stack with existing natural armor bonus, I don't know about the Pathfinder version however. It seems that I learn something new every days those days. :D
Also, I know that mage armor do not stack with bracers of armor, and I did the math right (+4 from shield, +4 from mage armor, -1 from bracers of armor = +7). Deflection bonus used to stack in 3.X. Did that changed too?
EDIT: I was not aware that invisibility go off after casting a non-offensive spell. This is something new to Pathfinder I guess. Same thing about barkskin, it used to stack with existing natural armor bonus, I don't know about the Pathfinder version however. It seems that I learn something new every days those days. :D
Also, I know that mage armor do not stack with...
Yeah deflection doesn't anymore. I heard somewhere Shield and Mage Armor didn't but until I hear otherwise that is a load of hooey.
Yeah invisibility was way too good, nearly made rogues obsolete in 3.5 when it came to stealth, you pretty much had to prestige class to be any good.
The trip to the tangle foot bag combo could really suck too ;) then your whole body is stuck to the ground haha (not sure if thats actually what would happen)
You are right I didn't mean to get up in arms about it, I just felt like you only paid attention to the damage aspect of Derek. I now see you didn't :). He has a lot to work with, depending on how it looks.
But then again so do you. And one will save spell and BAM! Derek is gone.
But then again so do you. And one will save spell and BAM! Derek is gone.
Luckily for you, the only will-based DC spell that the summoner can have at this level is glitterdust. Now glitterdust allows a new save every round AND being blind for a round or two is not enough, at least against those specific opponents (I see no rogues on the battlefield), to call the fight an auto-lost. It could work better with a summoner with really high charisma + spell focus + greater spell focus, but even then, glitterdust is not a save-or-die like, for example, sleep.
EDIT: I just realised how great it would be if Solom and Derek could just team up instead of fighting each other. We would have :
The battle field controller and main damage dealer : Derek
The meat shield without shield, but with a lot of meat : Eidolon
The party's buffer : Solom
That's why I prefer to play as a team player. We have so much more potential when we work together. ;D
mage armor does not stack with your bracers of armor, and shield I believe also wont stack with your deflection bonus. The bull's strength will be a touch attack and if I get a tanglefoot bag off or the thunderstone that becomes a little more difficult. As for the invisibility if you cast any spells that goes away.
EDIT: also i was under the impression barkskin didn't stack with already existing natural armor.
Mage armor and bracers of armor provide like bonuses. Like bonuses (except dodge bonuses) do not stack.
Shield provides a shield bonus. It stacks with a deflection bonus.
Casting a spell does not always negate invisibility.
Barkskin provides an enhancement bonus to natural armor. It stacks with a natural armor bonus.
mage armor does not stack with your bracers of armor, and shield I believe also wont stack with your deflection bonus. The bull's strength will be a touch attack and if I get a tanglefoot bag off or the thunderstone that becomes a little more difficult. As for the invisibility if you cast any spells that goes away.
EDIT: also i was under the impression barkskin didn't stack with already existing natural armor.
Mage armor and bracers of armor provide like bonuses. Like bonuses (except dodge bonuses) do not stack.
Shield provides a shield bonus. It stacks with a deflection bonus.
Casting a spell does not always negate invisibility.
Barkskin provides an enhancement bonus to natural armor. It stacks with a natural armor bonus.
They both provide armor bonuses and do not stack.
Shield does provide a shield bonus now.
I mispoke on invisibility I apologize. that could be a threat to me then, provided he found a way to see me in my own invisible state :)
interesante... barkskin didn't use to do that if i recall but hey who knows. but the bonus is only a plus +2 to the original
puts him to a decent AC, I would probably have to swing standard while you are prone from trip instead, but the amulet of natural armor wouldnt stack.
Still doesn't solve the factor of round conservation and as my good friend said there is way too many factors to actually decide a winner.
as for us teaming up...
me and that eidolon on the front line... with haste... and buffs... dear God...
better bring out the CR7s lol