Prices for these Items?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Shadow Lodge

Under the Magic Item Creation rules, items can be made with multiple abilities. Unfortunately for me, I can't firgure out whether I should use the "Multiple Similar Abilities" pricing or the "Multiple Different Abilities" pricing because of the way they are written is confusing to me...

So what are the prices of the following items?

Golembane Scarab/Amulet of the Mighty Fists +2 Wounding.
Ring of Telkinesis, Freedom of Movement, and Forcefangs(APG).
Ring of Protection +5 and Evasion.
Caludron of Plenty and Brewing(APG).

Shadow Lodge

*almost 8 hours bump*

Liberty's Edge

Dragonborn3 wrote:
*almost 8 hours bump*

On those I'd use different abilities on all of them.

Multiple similar abilities would be along the lines of belt of general studliness +2dex +4con +6str.


Dragonborn3 wrote:


So what are the prices of the following items?

Whatever you, as the DM, decide that they should be IF you allow them to be made.

The rules give a GUIDELINE for DMs as toward pricing to help you on this.

If it's a bit too complicated just don't allow them in your campaign. Simple and done.

-James


Golembane Scarab specifically allows you to overcome damage reduction of a specific creature.
Amulet of Mighty Fists makes you hit harder and do other weaponly type things.

Different.

Ring of Telekinesis allows you to use a spell at will.
Ring of Freedom of Movement allows you to use a spell at will.
Ring of Forcefangs is a wonky staff.

First pair are similar. Last is different.

Ring of Protection gives you a bonus to AC.
Ring of Evasion gives you access to a class feature.

Different.

Cauldron of Brewing provides a skill bonus (2500 gp), and provides some utility (500 gp).
Cauldron of Plenty casts 2 different cleric spells (effectively).

Different. However, if I were DM, I'd work with you to fulfill this concept.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

Dragonborn3 wrote:
I should use the "Multiple Similar Abilities" pricing or the "Multiple Different Abilities" pricing

I just posted on this 7 hours ago.

I'm posting again.
I'm sure if you googled, you could find a number of discussions.

I'll try to sum it up in as little words as possible.

MSA:
Does your item use a "pool" to pay for abilities? If so it is similar.

MDA:
If not it is different.

A pool is defined as some power source (either charges like a Staff uses or does it have X daily uses that can be used for one of Y different abilities.)

Here are two examples:
1) Staff of 50 charges, which can use 3 different spells. MSA with charges
2) Bauble of uber, which can be used two times a day and when used can be used to produce one of three effects MSA with daily uses.

NotMousse wrote:
Multiple similar abilities would be along the lines of belt of general studliness +2dex +4con +6str.

This should use MDA also and not MSA.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Under the Magic Item Creation rules, items can be made with multiple abilities. Unfortunately for me, I can't firgure out whether I should use the "Multiple Similar Abilities" pricing or the "Multiple Different Abilities" pricing because of the way they are written is confusing to me...

So what are the prices of the following items?

Golembane Scarab/Amulet of the Mighty Fists +2 Wounding.
Ring of Telkinesis, Freedom of Movement, and Forcefangs(APG).
Ring of Protection +5 and Evasion.
Caludron of Plenty and Brewing(APG).

There is a rule that if the item is just the combination of 2 items, the price is price of most expensive item + price of other items x 1.5.

So, a Ring of Protection +5 and Evasion would cost 87,500 gp.


moon glum wrote:

There is a rule that if the item is just the combination of 2 items, the price is price of most expensive item + price of other items x 1.5.

So, a Ring of Protection +5 and Evasion would cost 87,500 gp.

It doesn't actually say what order to do the pricing in. I would do the most expensive +1.5 of the other prices too, but the rules are currently mute on the order of operations here.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:


It doesn't actually say what order to do the pricing in. I would do the most expensive +1.5 of the other prices too, but the rules are currently mute on the order of operations here.

In table 15-29 it specifies multiply the lower item cost by 1.5.

Shadow Lodge

The PRD wrote:

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

So what about the parts I made into Italics? Neither says what to do for smiliar magical items that don' take up a body slot, or different magical items that do.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

Dragonborn3 wrote:
what to do for smiliar magical items that don' take up a body slot, or different magical items that do.

Swap your Don't and Do, but I get your point.

The reason:
There are no MSA items that take up item slots (Have you seen a Staff that takes your belt slot?)
There are no MDA items that take up no items slots (but I guess could be built using the "no slot" price rules.)


An easy rule of thumb:

If it's an advantage having the powers in the same item (e.g. it saves you a slot), then your item should cost more than separate items doing the same thing. Example: Belt of Str +4 and Dex +4

If it's a disadvantage having the powers in the same item (e.g. using one power makes the other power unavailable and it doesn't save a slot), then your item should cost less than separate items doing the same thing. Example: Rod of the Python

Shadow Lodge

James Risner wrote:

Swap your Don't and Do, but I get your point.

The reason:
There are no MSA items that take up item slots (Have you seen a Staff that takes your belt slot?)
There are no MDA items that take up no items slots (but I guess could be built using the "no slot" price rules.)

I'd switch the words, but that would make the earlier post confusing, and the question wouldn't be answered..

The Belt of Physical Might grants at least a +2 to STR, DEX, and CON, so that's an MSA that takes up a slot.


James Risner wrote:


The reason:
There are no MSA items that take up item slots (Have you seen a Staff that takes your belt slot?)

The Ring of the Ram might qualify, depending on how you look at it.

James Risner wrote:

There are no MDA items that take up no items slots (but I guess could be built using the "no slot" price rules.)

There's one ioun stone in Seeker of Secrets that sort of qualififes (adds to Ride checks and gives your mount the Fleet feat).

----

Personally, I think the words "same abilities" and "different abilities" are misleading. They should be worded as "ability A OR ability B" and "ability A AND ability B", in my opinion.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

Dragonborn3 wrote:
The Belt of Physical Might grants at least a +2 to STR, DEX, and CON, so that's an MSA that takes up a slot.

You may be confused?

BoPM is +2 to two stats:
4000+4000*1.5 = 10000
BoPP is +2 to three stats:
4000 + 4000*1.5 + 4000*1.5 = 16000

Both are priced precisely at MDA and not MSA.

hogarth wrote:

The Ring of the Ram might qualify, depending on how you look at it.

There's one ioun stone in Seeker of Secrets that sort of qualififes (adds to Ride checks and gives your mount the Fleet feat).

Personally, I think the words "same abilities" and "different abilities" are misleading. They should be worded as "ability A OR ability B" and "ability A AND ability B", in my opinion.

I stand corrected, let me rewrite my words as "very few" as opposed to "no".

I couldn't agree more on the second thing. I still don't understand why they continue to use MDA/MSA when it is almost universally misunderstood by all new readers (including myself) until you start tearing down all items price structure.

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