I just wanted to post a thread in which I could point out that I'm pretty much happy with the overall structure of Pathfinder RPG.
I'm not saying its perfect. I'm not saying here or there that I don't want some things clarified or tweaked to work a little differently. However, in the "Worst Things about Pathfinder" I'm seeing lots of suggestions that are fairly large departures from the current game.
That's fine, and I think its great, especially if people can respectfully and succinctly explain what they want in a game. But people that like things the way they are often don't point things out, and I don't want to go point for point in that thread explaining why I like some of the "problems" with Pathfinder, and to me, its a lot easier to make a thread like this one to point out that I'm okay with how things look right now.
To me, things like having tier capstones and getting rid of iterative attacks completely and having stricter spell parameters for casters, etc. start to make the game not feel like the game I like.
There are games that actually do balance better than Pathfinder. I would probably feel much better, if I wanted a game where all of the players character's are balanced, to have people make up characters under Hero System or Mutants and Masterminds. But the "feel" isn't the same.
There is a fine line to walk between keeping the traditional feel of d20 fantasy gaming of the past and fixing issues, and you are never going to totally balance and fix the game without letting go of a lot of what makes the game feel like the game.
In the end, I'm all for making making adjustments, but not serious structural changes, and I'm all for a 2nd edition of Pathfinder being years . . . years off.
That's all I've got. If I'm in the minority, that's cool, these are just my own inclinations.
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I agree. I used to fret a lot about balance and game design and how the Monk sucked and Wizards ruled and all that crap. Then, I joined Pathfinder Society and started playing regularly. I'm not sure why, but most of the problems that crop up in theory, such as weak Monks or overpowered Wizards don't actually show up in practice. Whenever I'm reading over a theorycraft thread about balance and stuff, I usually take the points into consideration, then breath a sigh of relief that those problems never actually seem to show up in play.
I agree. I used to fret a lot about balance and game design and how the Monk sucked and Wizards ruled and all that crap. Then, I joined Pathfinder Society and started playing regularly. I'm not sure why, but most of the problems that crop up in theory, such as weak Monks or overpowered Wizards don't actually show up in practice. Whenever I'm reading over a theorycraft thread about balance and stuff, I usually take the points into consideration, then breath a sigh of relief that those problems never actually seem to show up in play.
Oh, I'm sure they show up on some people's games, and I wouldn't want to try to tell someone else that the problems they have in a game aren't "real" or "important," but I just think its helpful to know that the same thing doesn't come up in other games.
indeed, i like my pathfinder the way it is, and anything i dislike i can houserule away!
I'm not against fixing things, but there is a line where a tweak or or a fix looks more like an overhaul.
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as i've said before, Pathfinder is still young, so there are things people haven't seen what they wished for or the like, but so far i haven't really had to change much, if anything, and i can't see why people do wish for it to be overhauled....*shrugs* there's no pleasing some people...
ps: you al crazy :P
+1 to this thread.
my suggestions on the other thread are out of the box because I am trying to think out of the box.
I love pathfinder as is and the direction its headed in.
+1 to this thread.
my suggestions on the other thread are out of the box because I am trying to think out of the box.
I love pathfinder as is and the direction its headed in.
Nope, that's totally cool. Sometimes you don't get back to the simpler cool idea that works unless you throw out something really out there to begin with.
I'm too very happy with Pathfinder. I consider it the best incarnation of the game so far, and I plan to continue to be a customer (I buy the hardcovers Core, APG, Bestiary, and I plan to buy Ultimates and future bestiary for sure).
I discuss somethimes in these boards about how some thing could be done, I hope, I suggest... but the overall policy in the design of the game, I' very happy for and I love it a lot. Moreover, I think that several missing parts in the core has been adressed in the APG and a lot of criticisms completeley ignore, intentionally or not, that book.
I'm too very happy with Pathfinder. I consider it the best incarnation of the game so far, and I plan to continue to be a customer (I buy the hardcovers Core, APG, Bestiary, and I plan to buy Ultimates and future bestiary for sure).
I discuss somethimes in these boards about how some thing could be done, I hope, I suggest... but the overall policy in the design of the game, I' very happy for and I love it a lot. Moreover, I think that several missing parts in the core has been adressed in the APG and a lot of criticisms completeley ignore, intentionally or not, that book.
After I got my APG... oh god..
that book single handidly made me never want to play most other RPGs ever.
Clever Paizo, I see what you have done! I AM A SLAVE TO YOUR MARKET NOW!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! or maybe yes!!!!?
Pathfinder has required the least bit of house-ruling and world revision than any other tabletop rpg I've ever played. I still don't like Golarion (too much Tolkien floating around, as usual), but I like it WAY more than most campaign settings I've seen; and the settings with better flavor (fluff) have horrible systems. Good system and great writers/designers.
How many posts will it take this well-meaning and positive thread to degenerate into the exact conversation it was created to counterbalance?
How many posts will it take this well-meaning and positive thread to degenerate into the exact conversation it was created to counterbalance?
Not many if you keep thread jacking.
What is the best Change pathfinder made happen in your opinion thread??
I personally love the talents and rage powers and the skrimisher abilities.
So much flavor my tastebuds came...
Too much information.So much flavor my tastebuds came...
Its called salivation Ryder... geeze... pervert.
How many posts will it take this well-meaning and positive thread to degenerate into the exact conversation it was created to counterbalance?
Won't be me that makes it, that's for sure.
The way my friendly local game store (The Green Dragon in North Charleston, SC) sold it to me was exactly right. As I apprehensively looked over the books for the New Game, Scott (the owner, and my Ptolus GM) said to me, "You know, you don't *have* to completely reboot everything about gaming and buy everything all over again if you don't want to."
The idea that I was being given the option to keep the tons of sourcebooks I already had made sense. Still does.
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with Pathfinder as it is, for the most part I tweak and houserule a few things but I've done that with most every game I've ever run since I started DM Red Box Basic back when I was 12-13.
That other thread just seems like a whiny pile on at this point. It's pretty guaranteed that this thread wont reach 10-12 pages. Which is a damn shame. Anyway thanks Paizo guys for a great game and even greater support.
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with Pathfinder as it is, for the most part I tweak and houserule a few things but I've done that with most every game I've ever run since I started DM Red Box Basic back when I was 12-13.
That other thread just seems like a whiny pile on at this point. It's pretty guaranteed that this thread wont reach 10-12 pages. Which is a damn shame. Anyway thanks Paizo guys for a great game and even greater support.
It will if I can help it, I regret spending so much time on a forum with that title anyways.
that may be the best part, the staff. They are pretty cool about everything. They respond intelligently and dont talk to you like robots. Joking back with customers is the biggest seller sometimes.
Good stuff
Hear, hear.
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Agreed with the thread title.
The core Pathfinder game I am currently GMing is the first game I can remember (roleplaying 20 years) that I have not (to this point) felt the need to include any house rules (except if you include some home-brewed monsters, campaign specific changes to languages and religions, and allowing a limited amount of material from the APG).
Thanks for a good game Paizo (and thanks to KEJR for this thread).
I'm too extremely happy with things as they are, and do not see any need for change right now.
Never change means die.
All lies in HOW changes are made.
And this applies not only in RPGs ;)
Good stuff
Hear, hear.
"There once was a group of men
Trapped in a land of lostLooking for a reason to grin
Feeling as though they were crossed
A game called 3.5
Which once made them smile
Had all but up and died
So they were sad for a while
In the dark came a sight so bright
That only the darkest could see
Something of woe and great might
Banish the old ways of RPG
With a pen in hand and good in their hearts
A small group of men decided some plans
To revive their old friend, for starts
And revive 3.5 and it's fans
For two years plans were tested
Late nights at desks and in work
At times they thought they were bested
But they kept on bravely with smirks
After time it came to be
The moment the game would arise
Came to be at that instance in thee
It was said once again, that it thrives!
For this tail that you have heard
of lightning pen and effort given
So you would see, it is absurd
To hate anything so driven
Congratulations Paizo men
We enjoy what you amend"
I was terribly bored.
As someone who also posted in the "worst thing" thread let me add what I didn't say there (because it wasn't what was asked):
That IMO PF is the best incarnation of DnD / D20 yet, that I really like the changes made to 3.5 and the company that made them and that, little quibbles nonwithstanding, I'm perfectly happy playing the game as is.
Keep up the good work, Paizo!
I'm also extremely happy with my Pathfinder experience.
When the announcement regarding 4E came out, I had just recently gotten back into gaming after many years of absence, and was extremely frustrated with the idea of starting over yet again with a new system, especially one that seemed to minimize or completely eradicate some of my favorite aspects of gaming.
Pathfinder not only became my solution...but has become a surprisingly enjoyable solution, as it fixed many of the problems I had with 3.5 in the process.
The problems I have with PF are few and far in between. It is one of the best games I've ever played and Paizo provides some of the best customer service I've seen. The hard work and sheer effort is readily visible on each page of every product I've purchased. I'll freely admit that any gripe I have with the system or change I feel I warrented is far more likely a product of my own group's dynamics than an actual fault with game. Every aspect of the game has stunned and surprised me in positive ways to some extent over its predecessors, be it rules, flavor, or even artwork (and what a beautiful menagerie of darn good lookin' fantasy folk we have in the Character Race section, eh?). I'm gonna' keep discussing things in the 'other' thread, but wanted to stop by and tell all the crew at Paizo that they are doin' some fine work.
I love playing Pathfinder. It is enough that I understand how to grapple now, and have built a character around it. With 3.5 stuff bolted onto pathfinder, in my current campaign we have:
Paraplegic gnome artificer who rides around in a a bullette construct like it is a tank.
Elven Warmage who, despite evocation supposedly sucking, blows stuff up real good.
Dwarven Druid with Rhino animal companion who focuses on charging things.
Halfling Cleric of Sarenrae who is a complete coward who mostly runs away from threats on his riding dog. Except undead. He burns them to cinders.
In the parallel evil campaign, we have
Half-Fey Elven Warmage who is deceptive, sneaky, and blows stuff up pretty well too.
Feral Half Orc Monk/Barbarian with belt of enlarge person who can grapple almost anything. Once he pulled a land shark out of the ground and pinned it like he was wrestling alligators.
Shadow creature Elven rogue (who was a halfling rogue who was a kobold rogue (reincarnation)).
Human Fighter/Wizard/Speedmage.
Neither of these groups could have existed in any other version of DnD
I think the races are balanced a lot better than 3.5. Good job Pazio.
I'm glad that Paizo put out their own Pathfinder core rule books. It was a breath of fresh air compared to all the later 3.5 books that came out.
I'm overall happy with the core PF rules against 3.5, but I'm most comfortable with the fact that it is close enough to 3.5 that I can use either version (and sometimes both versions) of certain parts of each system interchangeably and have it all still work.
And Kingmaker is one of the best adventures to grace RPG store shelves in years.
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I will have to say I agree with the OP Knight errant JR. On the whole I like Pathfinder. I am happy with it. I think the Paizo staff do an excellent job at listening to us their customers.
Can the game be tweaked here and there? of course but thats half the fun of it. Can i still use my older 3.5 stuff? yes, with a little tweaking.
To me does this feel like an evolution from the "red Box" Yes! even though i gripe here and there over on the Pathfinder society Orgainzed play boards here and there, I am overall happy with paizo's products and how they run things.
Keep up the good work
I'm thoroughly enjoying pathfinder, but most of all I am thankful that the team is doing such a great job avoiding power creep.
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indeed, i like my pathfinder the way it is, and anything i dislike i can houserule away!
Sir, with this common sense you are spoiling us!
O_O I DEMAND A RULE SET THAT COVERS ALL!
O_O SOMEONE PLEASE BALANCE MY CAMPAIGN - TEH WIZARDS! TEH WIZARDS!
O_O MOMMY, WHY ARE YOU NOT OPTIMAL?
O_O I DEMAND RECOGNITION FOR MY OPINIONS!
O_O MORE CAPS!
O_O WAA!1!
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I was relatively happy with 1E AD&D, Basic/Expert D&D, 2E, 3E, and 3.5E and I'm relatively happy with Pathfinder.
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Pathfinder is awesome! Yes, game balance is important, but that is an issue that any worthwhile GM can work out. The Paizo staff need not come to the rescue any time there is vague wording or slight imbalance. Just use common sense and make a call.
Pathfinder is the best incarnation of D&D and fantasy rpgs I have seen to date and I agree that hopefully PF 2E is many, many years away. Throwing out a new edition every few years is probably the main reason that WotC fell from grace and Paizo took their place on the rostrum of excellence.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I also like the direction Pathfinder is heading, especially with the APG. The patron idea for the witch is a great idea about one way to learn arcane magic for example.
Also, my group is up to eight players now because PF is so enjoyable that players are recruiting their friends into trying RPGs. I'm going to have to start turning players away at this point, something I haven't had to do since D&D 3.0 arrived back in 2000.
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While Pathfinder does have some rough edges in places (mostly inherited), what game doesn't? I wouldn't be QQing it didn't live up to my standards - I simply wouldn't play Pathfinder, nor would I buy their products. Long live Paizo and Pathfinder!
This sums it up for me. I don't grouse about the aspects of Champions, or Rifts, or whatnot that I don't like, because I don't play those games and they don't have a magical Bucknard's Everempty Purse / Bag of Devouring effect plugged into my wallet.
The fact that I have specific things I like and dislike about Pathfinder (most of the dislikes, in my case, legacies / proud nails with monster design that I wish hadn't had to be carried over to satisfy backwards-compatibility) just means that I've got about twenty pounds of Pathfinder product weighing down my shelves and feel invested in the system!
I love the new sorcerer bloodlines and wizard school abilities, as well as the ability to use rage round by round, for a barbarian. I suspect I'd like the paladin smite more than I already do if it used a similar round-by-round mechanic... :)
Well said, KEJr