I have a friend who wants to run kingmaker and I am looking at a perhaps running a druid with a few levels of ranger. Any thoughts on such a build? Does the druid capstone with shape shapeshifting make such a difference assuming this character makes it to the end of the Path?
I am thinking some two weapon fighting + focusing on animal companion.
Not necessarily on optimization issue but just wanting some feedback.
Going with Sarenae as a diety, those Katepeshi like to trade in all kinds of places.
starting at first level.......
I have a friend who wants to run kingmaker and I am looking at a perhaps running a druid with a few levels of ranger. Any thoughts on such a build? Does the druid capstone with shape shapeshifting make such a difference assuming this character makes it to the end of the Path?
I am thinking some two weapon fighting + focusing on animal companion.
Not necessarily on optimization issue but just wanting some feedback.
Going with Sarenae as a diety, those Katepeshi like to trade in all kinds of places.
We only ran the first two AP's but from what I remember 20th level probably won't even be reached unless your DM throws in extra encounters to make sure you get that extra XP. Also even if you do hit 20th I imagine it will be for only a small portion at the tail end of the game so you probably won't see very many times of actually using the ability. The tail end of adventuring careers ends up being VERY campaign specific as the CR mechanics start to fall apart at that high levels.
I'd just say get your concept squared away and have fun with the AP ;)
We're now into book 3 of Kingmaker and I could say a druid/ranger would certain be useful. Most everything takes place outdoors, there are many places where a good survival check comes in handy, and extra party members (animal companion) are always welcome.
As for the build, I would recommend at least 6 levels of ranger just so you get the second combat style feat. If you're going two-weapon you'll be able to pick up improved without having to meet the dex requirement.
I think that you need to peg down what you want to be first, a combat melee character or a caster character and then decide how important the animal companion is to you.
From there your choices will be more clear, if you want to be a melee character you're actually much better off not multi-classing to druid for any significant amount of levels as you lose precious BAB which will be important due to TWF (penalties). Your companion will still be as strong (level -3) as if you multi-classed regardless.
If you want to play a caster, 6 levels of Ranger guarantees you will never see the high level spells which hurts A LOT (nothing past 7th at 20th level and everything before that will be "late"). It also lowers your animal companions effective level as three levels of ranger basically waste the ability.
Your other option is to go the wildshaping druid route. The main issue here is the MAD (multiple ability dependency) as you will need str (hit/damage), dex(ac/hit), con(hp) and wisdom(max level spells are limited if not high enough). If you are using a point buy system with not many points this is usually not a very good option.
With this you take advantage of the wildshape's long duration, utility(climbing, flying, burrow, etc.) and combat forms (creatures with multiple natural attacks who get pounce or things of that sort).
- You ignore the TWF feats in this case and get the multi-attack feat (Bestiary pg 315 - the requirements are to have 3 or more natural attacks which technically you can't get until you have wildshape at 4th level but your DM may waive that if you ask them about it) and Natural spell (so you can cast spells in animal form).
- At the lower levels your Animal Companion is your main source of combat ability, you want to keep it up and going and once you have some wildshapes under your belt you can switch forms and buff yourself (magic fang on your primary natural attack, bulls strength to make up for some BAB, barkskin to increase AC) before wading into combat.
- A few levels of ranger might not be a bad thing for BAB, but on the other hand... If you are only going to take a few levels of ranger then fighter might be useful as well (you are going to lose the animal companion bonus for anything less than 4 levels of ranger) and you get to choose 2 extra feats (weapon focus: claw/bite & toughness come to mind) and the option of wearing dragonhide armor once you can afford it to protect you when you aren't wildshaped. I personally suggest doing the melee classes first as that gets you some higher hp rolls to build on once you go into the druid class and means you are a little more effective in melee (higher BAB) as you make that transition. It also means you have some gold to purchase the dragonhide armor (cost is twice the masterwork version of whichever armor you are trying to get) so you can wear decent armor and retain druid spell casting (no metal allowed) when you aren't wildshaped. The spell shillelagh (1st level - 1 min a level) gives you a magical club or quarterstaff on cast so you don't need to spend money on a magical weapon you probably won't use much after getting wildshape. The spell Flame blade (2nd level) gives you a touch attack for when an enemy is particularly well armored and you have problems regarding low BAB/to hit numbers. Also, a potion of mage armor used after you wildshape will give you an armor bonus but if you use it before wildshaping technically you lose the bonus. It is a cost effective way to help the AC problem once wildshaped as it lasts for 1 hour, give it to your animal companion or party member so it is still around once you shift form and have them drop/feed it to you after.
Generally speaking if you are doing a caster class, 6 levels of anything that doesn't increase your caster level is a very bad idea as you are entering an area where more class defining features are lost. The best situation for doing a melee class/caster class is if there is a PrC you are interested in and you have to multi-class to get the requirements (Eld. Knight for example).
Not going to be worth it. The lost caster levels are going to make casting 2nd level spells at 10th level pointless.
Just be one or the other. Druid, probably, is your better bet.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I agree with the literate mouse above - either go full caster or go full ranger.
Mixing - especially - those two does not make sense at all (except for flavour, of course!).
The lost caster levels hurt especially at character levels above 5.
Key to your decision is, what role you want to fill in your group!
Treantmonk wrote some (optimization) handbooks about those two classes, and in the forums there are a lot of threads floating around discussing various builds for those two classes.
But again - first you need to decide what kind of character you want to play (meaning: caster druid, melee wild shaped druid or ranged/TWF ranger).
Ruyan.
Sarenrae is perfecly wonderful for Druids :) She is the Dawnflower :)
and the Sunworshiping nature priests would lover her ;) They like scimmitars, she likes scimmitars, etc.... and actually she does take on Druids ;)
Both classes are great for Kingmaker.
A multiclass between them, is not.
I second that.
|
A druid is a ranger who focuses on magic and mysticality.
A ranger is a druid who focuses on combat and practicality.
While I'm sure you could be an effective character as a multi-class, the concept makes little sense, and I think you'll have a lot of redundant abilities. And you'd probably be more effective as merely one or merely the other.
Then again you can multiclas in both and then take the prestige class meant for doing just that - the Nature Warden, you prety much need both classes to get into the Prestige class :)
But go with what you think will be fun to play :)
Druid 6 / Horizon Walker 1 / Nature Warden 10
Druid 6 / Horizon Walker 1 / Nature Warden 10
Note =
Cast spells as a 13th level druid. (7th level Max), at 17th level. The 4 level difference would effect saves vs direct effect spells. Good tho if your going the Buff animal/healer rough.Wildshape at level 6 = Wildshape 3 times per day (for 6 hours each use): Beasty Shape I or II, Elemetanl body I.
I must say a really nice build. You gain more than what you lose, well rounded, cool ability's. Would say that you need, must love, your pet a lot, as you will be buffing him up often.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have a friend who wants to run kingmaker and I am looking at a perhaps running a druid with a few levels of ranger. Any thoughts on such a build? Does the druid capstone with shape shapeshifting make such a difference assuming this character makes it to the end of the Path?
I am thinking some two weapon fighting + focusing on animal companion.
Not necessarily on optimization issue but just wanting some feedback.
Going with Sarenae as a diety, those Katepeshi like to trade in all kinds of places.
and then
Not going to be worth it. The lost caster levels are going to make casting 2nd level spells at 10th level pointless.
Just be one or the other. Druid, probably, is your better bet.
and i would agree with Roguerogue.
A 1 level dip would not be bad, to quality for something else latter on, but very rare does multi-classing help pure caster types.
Thanks for all the help, Looks like I will probably go with druid focusing on wild shape and animal companion, keep the full casting option.
I like the image of a druid being a ranger focused on mysticism.
Going to check out treantmonk's guide for druids.
Ultimately i decided that magic will be my focus much more than favored enemies and being a main up front melee character.....
out of curiosity where is the nature warden prestige class written up?
Playing a Ranger in Kingmaker right now. I'm loving it, lots of useful skills and great (ranged) combatability. Can't recommend this class enough.
As for Druid - if you want to rule over the battlefield, its a fine choice as well.
Thanks for all the help, Looks like I will probably go with druid focusing on wild shape and animal companion, keep the full casting option.
I like the image of a druid being a ranger focused on mysticism.
Going to check out treantmonk's guide for druids.
Ultimately i decided that magic will be my focus much more than favored enemies and being a main up front melee character.....out of curiosity where is the nature warden prestige class written up?
Come mid levels, it can be a hoot. Spells with full (or near full) progression is always a good thing especially with another body on the field with an animal companion. Also, now that you decided on that make sure you check the Summon Natures Ally spells. They used to be some of the best utility spells in the game by choosing the right creatures from the list for the situation (summon a stirge next to a caster, attach/blood drain is a nasty nasty thing). As you're able to spontaneously cast them, know your options as they are always available to you.
Advanced Players Guide, page 272 for the PrC.
I'd cast a vote for ranger OR druid, but not really a mix of the two.
I'd also cast a vote for Erastil over Sarenrae -- there's more going on storywise for followers of the former in Kingmaker to the best of my knowledge.
Yeah, but then again wasn't there a discussion about the viability of Erastil being a patron deity for a druid considering his portfolio?
Don't get me wrong, I would let a player take Erastil as his patron deity any day and as a DM running Kingmaker I second Dire Mongoose's post.
Ruyan.
Actually no :D Warden is made for Ranger, you need level 7 to qualify, but its doable by Ranger alone.
Nature's Warden is in APG
Yeah, but then again wasn't there a discussion about the viability of Erastil being a patron deity for a druid considering his portfolio?
Don't get me wrong, I would let a player take Erastil as his patron deity any day and as a DM running Kingmaker I second Dire Mongoose's post.
Ruyan.
Sorry for double post.
I would allow it with a druid no problem. In my mind i see Gozreh as someone who doesn't like civilization invading wilderness and try to keep nature clean off of cities etc. While Erastil tries to sync civilization with nature, not taking more than its needed, not hunting for sport but for survival, you get the picture.
Is not Erastil Lawful Good ?
Is not Erastil Lawful Good ?
He is.
I'd cast a vote for ranger OR druid, but not really a mix of the two.
I'd also cast a vote for Erastil over Sarenrae -- there's more going on storywise for followers of the former in Kingmaker to the best of my knowledge.
I also vote with the majority. Choose one or the other, but do not mix. Personally, I wouild go with Ranger and get boon companion feat ( a Pathfinder product feat ) But both are good options, individually.
As I am just starting to play in kingmaker myself, I cannot say what best god choice is, but the guide does reccomend Erastil.
And Erastil has lots of coolness factor too, if you are playing a strict Golarion campaign. Deadeye's Arrow, Goodberry working on nuts, and getting longbow prof. for free. ( all from his Gods and Magic write up) Plus he just looks like a great wilderness god.
Erastil is THE god choice in Kingmaker, but you didn't hear that from me. :)
Ranger or Druid are solid choices, but as has already been stated, I wouldn't suggest multi-classing. If you go Ranger, Favored Enemy: Hu-mon is a wonderful choice as well.