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Certain terms from gaming, I'm thinking Grognard and Gish, are universally recognised for a whole community of readers. So surely they should be in the Oxford English Dictionary.
To make a submission I need printed sources for these words. I have encountered them most in speech and online. Can anyone point me toward printed resources (even letters pages of magazines would do) that have used the terms 'gish' and 'grognard'?
Grognard is probably a bigger deal as it's a social term and not so 'in-game'.
Any help?
You do know grognard is french for old soldier, right?
Grognard is in fact an old term.Brilliant, you've given me derivation.
It is not, however, currently in the OED, despite being in consistent use by a section of the English-speaking population.
Hence the need for printed sources.
. You should be able to use Google Book search to find suitable sources. 30 seconds with that search app turned up, "Fantasy Freaks and Gaming Geeks" by Ethan Gilsdorf, published in 2009. Page 75 seems to contain a complete definition for 'grognard' in the gaming usage of the word. Also, "The Civil War in American Culture" Will Kaufman, 2006, pg 120.
Grognard: a soldier of Napoleons' Old Guard; a veteran soldier; grumbler (French) - Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed.
It is, or at least was in the OED
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Grognard: a soldier of Napoleons' Old Guard; a veteran soldier; grumbler (French) - Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed.
It is, or at least was in the OED
yes however the current usage is not. Neither is a now common term Gish. Which by the way I have heard a W.O.W. player use who knew nothing of said term then it was for a fighter/wizard.
So despite those of us who wish the term left to the non-OGL critters it is meant for. It just might have spawned something else.
Grognard: a soldier of Napoleons' Old Guard; a veteran soldier; grumbler (French) - Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed.
It is, or at least was in the OED
Wow, I demand that my players henceforth refer to me as Le Tondu.
What does Grognard mean?
What does Grognard mean?
Grognard: a soldier of Napoleons' Old Guard; a veteran soldier; grumbler (French) - Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed.
;D
But seriously, in the RPG community it's a term for someone who wants to establish their "get off my lawn you damn kids we had 1hp and a dagger and liked it!" credentials.
So, it means an old-school gamer who walked up hill 50 miles in the snow just to play D&D, and made their dice with their bare-hands out of rocks.
Prior to thi, I believe it was used n wargaming circles to denote the hoary old guys who'd been playing since the year dot.
Githyanki.
But they're all the same with the lights out. :D
Does it now? I thought it was a condensed form of Gesthalt. Learn something new everyday.....
The 1E Fiend Folio is a treasure trove of the obscure in D&D.
[OuterLimits]You mean... I was a grognard all along?[/OuterLimits]
NOOOOOO!!!!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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To get these terms ensconced in some dictionary or another is admirable, GeraintElberion. But to this English scholar, it seems rash to start with the venerable Oxford English Dictionary.
Different dictionaries are designed to fulfill different functions. Some, like the American Heritage dictionary, are "descriptive", that is to say, they indicate how contemporary culture uses a word, what people think it means. Other dictionaries, like the big honkin' Webster's tome, are "prescriptive", that is, they report what scholars working in linguistic fields think a word should mean.
For example, the American Heritage dictionary now reports that the words "imply" and "infer" can be used as synonyms, because a lot of Americans don't know the difference.
The Oxford English Dictioary occupies a special space in the world of dictionaries. It's the pre-eminent Historical Use reference. You don't go to the OED to find out what a world like "still" means. Rather, you find out what it meant to Shakespeare, or to Thororeu, or to Carlisle. Each definition is listed with an appropriate contextualized quotation, which is referenced by author and date. The OED is not current: depending on the section you're looking through, the references in the OED will lag anywhere from 10 to 50 years behind.
Also, I suspect terminology such as "grognard", and "munchkin" and especially words like "gish" or "melee" as a type of character would be considered narrow jargon, and the OED tries to steer clear of jargon.
Best, I think, would be to concentrate on dictionaries like Merriam / Webster's, and try to get more commen terms like "alignment", "hit points" and "(make a) save" adopted. Those terms have entered mainstream culture.
The 1E Fiend Folio is a treasure trove of the obscure in D&D.
Best Monster Manual ever made, 'course I might have some slightly rose tinged glasses, I've not used Sheet Gouls anytime recently.
We not only have a "Gish" in San Jose but we also have the Gish Apartments.
Kallisti!
Hail Eris. -><-