There are some ettins coming up in the campaign I'm running and I've been toying with the idea of treating them more like two creatures rather than one (given that they have two heads and all).
What I was thinking was to give the Ettin the following options:
1. Take a move action and two standard actions per round as long as each standard action uses at most one free hand; or
2. Take two full-round actions as long as the movement requirements of the actions overlap. That is, both "heads" could take a full attack or charge.
Obviously, this eclipses its need for Superior TWF.
Do you think this changes the CR of the Ettin? Clearly it would change it by at most +1 since two standard Ettins would still be stronger and would be the equivalent to +2.
The real kicker is how to add class levels to such a creature. What would happen if one of the heads was a sorcerer? I may just say in this case that class levels and their related abilities are equally accessible to both heads. Of course, that becomes a little funny with spell caster levels but it's just easier to deal with.
Here is the build I was thinking of using. What CR would you put this at considering the options I've given above?
Ettin Fire Sorcerer 4
init +5, low-light, perception +17
AC 20 touch 10 flat-footed 19 (+2 armour, +1 dex, +8 nat, -1 size)
hp: 101 (10d8+4d6+42)
Fort +11 Ref +5 Will +10
Resist 10 fire
Spd 40ft.
Melee: flail +14/+9 (2d6+6)
Ranged: javelin +9 (1d8+6)
Elemental Ray (fire) 5/day Ranged touch 30ft 1d6+2 fire
Str 22 Dex 12 Con 17 Int 6 Wis 12 Cha 15
BAB +9 CMB +16 CMD 27
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Iron Will, Charge Through, Elemental Focus (Fire)
Spells:
1st (7/day)
Shield
Burning Hands (DC 14)
True Strike
Enlarge Person
2nd (4/day)
Flaming Sphere (DC 15)
1) lose Enlarge Person unless he has friends. He can not cast it on himself he is gaint not legal target. Also lose True strike and Shield I do not think it should use any spell that are Personal
Second Level DC 15 for CR 9 or 10 is wast of a action to cast it
2) Lose Charge Though for exter Trait for + 2 caster level for varable effects and +2 on comabat casting
3)Base CR 8 by Rules I call it CR 9 for upped abilty CR 10 if you leave the spells that one head can use for the other.
4) Do not forget to add NPC wealth for CR 9 or 10
7,800 gp or 10,050 gp worth of Gear
5) lose Elamental Focus add Lunge or Combat Casting
More like this
Ettin Fire Sorcerer 4 CR 9
init +5, low-light, perception +17
AC 23 touch 10 flat-footed 22 (+4 amour, +1 dex +2,(+9 nat, -1 size)
Power Up
AC 25 touch 12 flat-footed 24 (+4 amour, +1 dex +2,(+9 nat, -1 size +2 Deflection VS Good)
hp: 101 (10d8+4d6+42)
Fort +11 Ref +5 Will +10
+2 vs Good
Resist 10 fire
Spd 40ft.
Melee: flail +15/+10 (2d6+6) MW
Power Attack -3 +6 Damage +12/+7 (2d6+12)
Power up with Spell +17/+12(2d6+8)
Power Attack with Spell +14/+9(2d6+14)
Ranged: javelin +9 (1d8+6)
Power Up +9 (1d8+8)
Elemental Ray (fire) 6/day Ranged touch 30ft 1d6+2 fire
Str 22 Dex 12 Con 17 Int 6 Wis 12 Cha 17
Power up +4 STR 26
BAB +9 CMB +16 CMD 27
Power UP CMB +18 CMD 29
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Iron Will, Combat Casting, Extra Trait ( Desperate Focus and Magic Knack)
Combat Cast +13 (level +4 +3 Stat +2Trait +4 Feat)
Arcane Failure Spell 10%
Spells:
1st (7/day)
Vanish
Burning Hands (DC 14) 5d4 Fire 15 ft Cone
Burning Disarm (DC 14)Drop Item or 5d4 Fire 40 ft
Protection form Good
2nd (5/day)
Bull STR
Items Master Work Fail(+300gp), Mithral Chain Shirt(1200GP), Amulet of Natural Armor +1(2000gp) Headband CHA+2(4000gp) 7500gp use 300 left
If you do CR ten Change Armor to +1 and make Weapon +1
3 round Prep for monster Bull STR, Protection VS Good, and Vanish,
Suprised Round
Stealth +20(Due to Vanish)move in on one target
VS(Tank) Burning Disarm if make the save Power attack and Attack Twice
if Failed Trip at+20 with Fail and Attack once Power Attack No Weapon No attack back if CMB fails
VS Group Burning Hands and Cleave target Same targets
VS Caster Go back to being Plain old ettin 4 Attack Power Attack
Archer you do not set well agianst Close Beat them down hard and fast
Burn Disarm Most like will not work agains them. If a can keep them them theaten so the have to move and shot only geting one shot in and take some type of AoO
If at Range Move Thow Javelin Cast Vanish repeat till you can seat up base to base
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Ettins have taken a hit in the conversion between D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder, notes the guy who statted up the two-headed Haga in last year's RPG Superstar. In D&D, ettins treat each hand as their primary hand, for purposes like iterative attacks and two-weapon use penalties. In Pathfinder, the advantages of having two brains and four eyes are dramatically reduced.
Ettins have taken a hit in the conversion between D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder, notes the guy who statted up the two-headed Haga in last year's RPG Superstar. In D&D, ettins treat each hand as their primary hand, for purposes like iterative attacks and two-weapon use penalties. In Pathfinder, the advantages of having two brains and four eyes are dramatically reduced.
I had noticed that which is why I was trying to find a way to spice them up a bit. I also like rather unusual combinations for interesting encounters and a fire sorcerer Ettin is going to fit the bill.
I know the original build isn't exactly optimized, but I want to have the feeling of being able to attack and cast (fire) spells every round. Even though the DCs are relatively low, he could have (at least) two flaming spheres rolling around while also attacking. His other options would include melee attack/burning hands if he starts getting ganged up on.
Although the enlarge person spell does open up a can of worms, I kind of want to use it to see the "he can do that?" look on my player's faces.
I do have to decide on equipment but I was hoping to have one or two interesting things rather than the "standard fare" PCs would usually buy for themselves. At CR 9 (which is where I was hoping to put him) I may go for something like rhino hide (5180gp), a lightning javelin (1500gp), a MW flail (308gp) and a potion of cure moderate wounds (300gp). That leaves about 500gp worth of treasure including a single large fire opal on a platinum chain with an invisible arcane mark of unknown origin...
So, on top of the build I posted above, the armour bonus would change to +6 but also give him a 20% spell failure chance and reduce his speed to 30ft. He would also get +1 to attack with his flail.
For my own reference more than anything else:
Ettin Fire Sorcerer 4 (CR 9)
init +5, low-light, perception +17
AC 24 touch 10 flat-footed 23 (+6 armour, +1 dex, +8 nat, -1 size)
hp: 101 (10d8+4d6+42)
Fort +11 Ref +5 Will +10
Resist 10 fire
Spd 30ft.
Melee: MW flail +15/+10 (2d6+6) (+2d6 damage on a charge)
Ranged: javelin +9 (1d8+6)
Space: 10ft.; Reach 10ft.
Elemental Ray (fire) 5/day Ranged touch 30ft 1d6+2 fire
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 4th, concentration +6, 20% arcane spell failure):
2nd (4/day)
Flaming Sphere (DC 15)
1st (7/day)
Burning Hands (DC 14)
Enlarge Person
Shield
True Strike
Str 22 Dex 12 Con 17 Int 6 Wis 12 Cha 15
BAB +9 CMB +16 CMD 27
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Iron Will, Charge Through, Elemental Focus (Fire)
Gear: Rhino Hide, Lightning Javelin, Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds, MW flail, 3 javelins, fire opal (400gp), 109gp
1) lose Enlarge Person unless he has friends. He can not cast it on himself he is gaint not legal target.Ettins are people too!
To the OP: Honestly I would avoid this as it can open up a can of worms on you.
-James
Ettins are a valid target for enlarge person. Giant is now a sub-type of humanoid, and thus makes them a valid target for the spell.