Third edition was balanced around the concept of four equal level encounters per day - that's what keeps spell slingers from becoming the dominant force in the game. Paizo doesn't entirely support this approach - they've sort of kept it going in general mechanics but it's not entirely how they write their modules.
Personally, it can take a while, depending on what all the party can do and how savvy the players are. I've only run Kingmaker, but I participated in 2nd Darkness. We didn't really do any modification to the encounters as of yet in either, and I'm okay with that. It all depends on how you pace the encounter. In my experience, most encounters last two to three rounds, which only takes a while if you're not being careful.
Wow, somebody who supports the 15 minute working day? Well, it does sound like your combats run pretty slowly. I usually get through a whole part in kingmaker in one session, usually with other stuff done too.
I used to have a GM who would have entire sessions comprised of a single combat. I made a cleric-- at around 8th level, I'd cast a 1 round/level spell and it'd have multiple rounds still left up to three or four hours later.
It's all in the efficiency and excitement of the encounters. Some in Kingmaker drag on, and some are very exciting. It just sucks that after a while exploration and exploration encounters become old hat.
Looking forward to the final module, which is more traditionally aligned.
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Wow, somebody who supports the 15 minute working day? Well, it does sound like your combats run pretty slowly. I usually get through a whole part in kingmaker in one session, usually with other stuff done too.
By "part" do you mean a single location encounter, or the entire volume?
If it's the latter, how? Our groups regularly take 4-5 sessions to cover one volume of an AP.
Wow, somebody who supports the 15 minute working day? Well, it does sound like your combats run pretty slowly. I usually get through a whole part in kingmaker in one session, usually with other stuff done too.By "part" do you mean a single location encounter, or the entire volume?
If it's the latter, how? Our groups regularly take 4-5 sessions to cover one volume of an AP.
We usually finish one volume of AP in 2 session but our sessions run about 6-8 hours. We don't game every week, only once or twice a month for longer sessions.
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We usually take about 4-5 game sessions to get through each AP book for my group on par but I think as time goes on we might refine it down to 3-4 once everyone is more comfortable and settled into their characters and the setting. We usually play for about 5-6 hours with a LOT of screwing around though.
We're still on Kingmaker volume 1, and we've been playing for probably something like 10 or 12 sessions now, at least. We tend to get off track, and we rarely pull off a particularly long session in any event.
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I've been running the Second Darkness AP,
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My group plays once a month for 10 to 15 hours a session.
I have run the entire Runelords and we are just finishing up Curse of the Crimson Throne in the next couple of sessions.
It has usually taken us 2 sessions for the lower level parts of the APs and multiple sessions for the higher level parts. I remember in Runelords the first three chapters took 2 sessions each (20 t0 30 hours of play) and the 4th chapter must have taken 4 sessions to complete (of course the group ran away like little girls and had to regroup and come back).
Same with Crimson Throne - Chapter 4 took 3 or 4 sessions and Chapter 5 the same. The last Chapter I believe we are going into their third session - and there is going to be a lot of clean up after they get done with the written part of the adventure.
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When I DM I usually remind people about ways to quicken battles since we (as a group) want action and not long breaks between turns. Simple ways to quicken it is to have people roll the attack and damage at the same time using different colored dice (this does get annoying with my monk lol) and have it written down before hand which attack is which color.
Also making a chart for the to hit helps. A roll of 15 = blah, 16 = yadda and so on. Once had a Barbarian who had to recalculate EVERYTHING every round he was raging or fatigued so I (by example) showed him how to have all 3 conditions written down ready to use.
I ask them to plan a little ahead (like a chess game but no so serious) so they are ready for their turn. Combat is usually quick and we spend more time looting then fighting (we don't min/max).
And of course tactics! Have the players work this out between games via emails or something so they don't spend so much time and I don't get frustrated they are taking to long to react to something. This also helps new players learn a little about their characters abilities.
just my 2cp
I've been DMing a long time and I love the Pathfinder rules.
My group has been playing an on-going campaign (first under 3.5 and then with PF) for two years.
I make heavy use of rewritten Paizo adventures, which I find to be beautifully written and well plotted.
So here's my question: Do other groups actually play through all the encounters and fights in these "modules"?
I generally find that most encounters take a fairly long time.
So if we try to dungeon crawl through, say, six or seven major encounters in a single dungeon, the story slows to, well, a crawl.
Generally, I've been rewriting these so that in each new setting there is one light or quick encounter and one go-big clash with all the bells and whistles.
Then it's on to the next venue, the next plot point, the next setting.
My approach generally matches that of the Indiana Jones or Star Wars movies, where each exotic locale is the set piece for one big fun clash.
So what are others doing? Are you really slogging through one monster-packed room after another?
And if so, how are you getting all that combat done without spending days and days of play time?
(Maybe I'm not running my combats quickly or efficiently enough?)
--Marsh
In game time my fights are normally 3 rounds or less. As we level up the fights take a little longer. How many hours is your normal session. We can normally clear a dungeon within one session, at the most it takes 2 sessions if it is really big or has a lot of fights.
edit:It takes us about 2 sessions to finish an entire book normally.
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It takes us 2-4 sessions to go through a book but we have a large group (8 players +GM). Our combat usually is over in 3-4 rounds. However we have had to take some steps to speed up combat so someone hasn't fallen asleep before it gets to be their turn again. These things include stuff like
1. No pets/familiars/summoned creatures etc. - With each player only controlling 1 thing on the map it helps things go quite a bit faster.
2. When it is the players turn they have 6 sec to start their action or else their character is considered to have a brain fart and looses his turn that round. - This keeps players paying attention and planing out what they are going to do before it is their turn.
3. Once you are done with your turn knock on the table. - This save a lot of sitting and watching until someone finally asks "Are you done?"
4. Implemented map tools. We had to go electronic. It was too hard to fit everyone around a map moving their guys and the GM asking everyone to move so he could reach around the map. With a electronic gaming table one of our guys built we eliminated that problem and it has sped up the GMs turns in combat considerably.
5. During combat your character (and thus you) can only speak on your turn. - This not only has lowered meta gaming but has also been a big time saver as people don't get distracted or taken down tangents.
6. Handle loot at the end of the session. Search/Appraise rolls are made after combat and it is assumed that the party took everything they could determine had value and wasn't nailed down. Details of the loot are not given until the end of the session unless it is needed to further the story. - This has also sped things along quite a bit. All the arguing of who gets what etc. takes place at the end and doesn't drag out combat or the story. It also makes it easy for the GM to have a printed list of all the possible loot and then take a magic marker and cross off the stuff we didn't find/get and just had it to the players at the end.
There are others but you get the idea. These might not be for you but they work for us. We had to make exceptions for all of us to be able to hang out together and play in the same game.
Try to analyze what is taking up the most time in your combat and make house rules to speed things up. I wouldn't make the rules alone though. Share your concerns and come up with solutions as a group. The gotcha that we found is that some rules can take away too much fun from the group. If that's the case change the rule or remove it and focus on a different area you feel will address your concern. In this case speed of combat.
So what are others doing? Are you really slogging through one monster-packed room after another?
And if so, how are you getting all that combat done without spending days and days of play time?
(Maybe I'm not running my combats quickly or efficiently enough?)
--Marsh
I play mostly in play-by-post or play-by-email games (where combat takes long enough!), so I also prefer a few large battles to many small battles.
Only thing I'd add is that I often remove encounters if it moves up the pace but I'd rather have more encounters than less. Its much easier to excise something than have to port an encounter in. Obviously a lot of the APs suffer from padding so as to fulfill the exp quota.
And yeah usually 4 sessions (4-5 hrs.) per book.
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I completely understand the feeling of encounter bloat.
To meet the XP necessary to advance a level you need roughly 20 encounters for an average 4 person party.
For example, if using Medium XP progression and advancing from 3rd level to 4th level with a party of 4, there needs to be 16,000 XP awarded. The average 3rd level encounter awards 800 XP. This results in 20 encounters.
To go from 1st level to completing 3rd level (and being ready for the 2nd adventure in an AP) requires roughly 60 encounters!
Now, for me, I shoot the number of encounters necessary to tell the story. I try to pad combat encounters with social ones and award XP for them as well (for a LOT of groups social encounters are really more difficult than combat encounters anyway). Once those encounters are accomplished I might give Story and Roleplaying Awards to advance the PCs to the necessary level.
Building encounters just for the sake of XP is not a lot of fun. IF I can justify all of the encounters for the story, then no problem. But I prefer not to throw in junk encounters for the sake of leveling. Not that Paizo throws in junk encounters! lol Just more in GENERAL usage :)