Okay so just to be honest I'm the new guy in this equation, anyhoo, I just joined a group who has been gaming for a few years, several people have had to move and so when I asked if I could step into one of the vacant slots they said yes immediately.
Now comes the problem, I am getting screwed by the rest of the party in a sort of haze the new guy way and i can't do anything about it. I'm a healer and I tend to have everyone leaning on me to survive only to be dropped in the last round. Then they will leave me stable but unconscious while they loot everything, this last time the GM laid out cleric specific items for the loot and when we made it to town the loot was sold and I got 10 gold while everyone else got 20000 that's right 20000!
Out of character I was pissed and I said something, they all just go that that is just something their character would do and I was lucky I was getting anything at all (same from GM).
I'm tried talking to them out of character but that doesn't work, I'm thinking of withholding healing, something which would go against my character's core, and probably result in a TPK but What else can I do?
Get a new group...
Even it sounds hard.
What they did has nothing to do with fair play or in-character play, but with saturation...
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Now comes the problem, I am getting screwed by the rest of the party in a sort of haze the new guy way and i can't do anything about it. I'm a healer and I tend to have everyone leaning on me to survive only to be dropped in the last round. Then they will leave me stable but unconscious while they loot everything, this last time the GM laid out cleric specific items for the loot and when we made it to town the loot was sold and I got 10 gold while everyone else got 20000 that's right 20000!
Pff, amateurs! They don't seem to understand the meaning of the word teamwork. I'd suggest you'd leave this group, and find another. One that works together, instead of every man for himself.
Nah, start charging heals ... 2k per channel, 500 per level of cure spell. Res 10k. Heal 6k make up your prices as i just did.
Ask GM if you could switch your deity to Abadar (if by chance you are not already one) before presenting party with your price check. After every heal watch how you become richer and richer while at end they end up fighting with dirt for range and clubs for melee. They don't like it ? Well thats something your char would do. Once you've ended up with all of their treasure, ask them does it seem fair, And than buy each of them +1 banana to fight with. What? Enchanted banana deals 1d2+1 + their str modifier damage.
If they don't wanna pay up after combat, just stand in the back and heal yourself. Yea ... you allow to be payed just in cash and without delays, after each combat. They need to sell their items ? Thats their problem.
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The two options presented are:
A - give them a taste of their own medicine.
B - rise above it and move on.
I would suggest taking option C.
Telling them that they are stopping you from having fun and asking, directly and bluntly but without swearing, shouting or getting overheated: "Why would you choose to stop me from having fun?"
If they come out with anything other than apologies then go for option B.
They need to know that they are the bad guys and you're not just 'flouncing' otherwise they'll keep on doing that kind of stuff.
Even if it doesn't help you, it might make them think twice with the next guy/gal.
Agreed with above sentiments.
If you wish to play with the same group, then I suggest the following.
Present each PC with a bill for past services. The PCs, as described, probably won't pay. In the next combat encounter, you charge them in-combat, i.e., pay-up before you heal. Group buffs, like bless, are free, but personal buffs are not.
Double the retail price for in-combat healing, since you are meeting supply and demand. Introduce the concept of "health insurance". This may, of course, change your PC's alignment to LE.
If they still won't share/pay, then 1) cast sanctuary, and 2) loot the bodies during combat. You may also want to hire body-guards or summon a few creatures as body-guards. You can call them "customer service representatives".
While i wholeheartedly agree with you Greint(over 60% of my chars were/are clerics), in most games Cleric comes down to the healer. Party buffs ? Bard/wizard in 90% chances got better than what you got and in most fights you need to heal. Thats why Cleric's got channel, so they can heal more efficiently, if they wanted to get cleric's spells a little break from being cure's all the time, they could of just made channel touch.
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The two options presented are:
A - give them a taste of their own medicine.
B - rise above it and move on.I would suggest taking option C.
Telling them that they are stopping you from having fun and asking, directly and bluntly but without swearing, shouting or getting overheated: "Why would you choose to stop me from having fun?"
If they come out with anything other than apologies then go for option B.
They need to know that they are the bad guys and you're not just 'flouncing' otherwise they'll keep on doing that kind of stuff.
Even if it doesn't help you, it might make them think twice with the next guy/gal.
+1 Gazillion! No one should put up with that crap.
As a GM I would probably make divided loot up unequally illegal for adventurers. It will stop interparty conflicts which are annoying for me to handle.
If they ask for proof one of the laws in the code of Hamurabi explains partnereships gains have to be spread equally. Which was an early legal text and I view adventuring party as a mutual set of partnerships.
The punishment should not be death but being put in the stocks and having to pay it back the fair share.
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Wow I'm almost never this negative but I say...bite the bullet and drop the group.
They are treating your character exactly like a lackey or hireling but without a contract. If your character walks away or balks at healing I guaruntee that they'll just hire a healer from town.
No matter what you do it won't go well. This group has a serious "we've earned this game play and loot after playing in the GM's game for years and deserve all of this stuff. Who are you and what the hell have you done?" attitude problem. They'll be hard pressed to ever fill their "open slots" if they treat all new players this way.
Nothing will alter this group's poor insider-gaming attitude. They will continue to stagnate and eventually get so disfunctional the group will disintegrate. I've seen it before. Do yourself a favor and be somewhere else.
Did these other people really move or did they just want to stop playing with this group of players!? (:
It's a game, you're suppose to be having fun, this group from what you've written does not sound fun AT ALL. Suggestions as above, myself I'd "move" as well.
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Forget charging them... they sound like the types that will kill your character for it and loot you while laughing about how its what their characters would do.
I wouldn't waste time showing up again. Just tell them that their style of play doesn't meet with your expectations (optionally add that, until you played with them, you didn't even know you HAD expectations but they STILL couldn't meet them).
My fantasy would be to show up, play, refuse healing at crucial moments, get them TPK'd, THEN deliver the message that you won't be playing with them any more... but I'd probably leave that fantasy in my head... and on this forum. :P
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Forget charging them... they sound like the types that will kill your character for it and loot you while laughing about how its what their characters would do.
I wouldn't waste time showing up again. Just tell them that their style of play doesn't meet with your expectations (optionally add that, until you played with them, you didn't even know you HAD expectations but they STILL couldn't meet them).
My fantasy would be to show up, play, refuse healing at crucial moments, get them TPK'd, THEN deliver the message that you won't be playing with them any more... but I'd probably leave that fantasy in my head... and on this forum. :P
Not me. I'd do it. Ha! Someone has to show these idiots the error of their ways.
I know that the situation MUST be more complicated, but...
If I were playing a cleric
and the party was ROBBING ME which I was convalescing
I would stop healing them.
.
.
.
If the party is self-serving, make them do service to your god before they can be healed. If your GM says anything about alignment, say "well, I am trying to convert them with the carrot, not the stick, but my alignment precludes my helping craven and selfish people do wrong."
Remember, you are a FULL CASTER. At the end of the day, you could probably optimize and take the entire party out. Don't let them push you around.
Now, here's something more important to think about: If you're getting upset OOC and the other players don't knock it off, you have an out-of-game social problem. Meaning: these guys are jerks. Try to talk to them as people OOC, and if you can't make progress there, leave the group.
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I had a group like this years ago & while not a bad as your group they were pretty bad
I told them out of game that I was not having fun & felt I was being left out of the game - they responded by brushing aside my problems & said it will come - I was not hppy with that response so I did the following
I played two more games with no further show of the games getting better but I also knew the party was headed into a big fight the next game
I waited till they were in the fight big time & cast a mass heal which I told everyone I rolled badly (oops so sorry but it was not me it was the dice) another round goes by with the party getting more beat up I then made my phone ring & said I had to leave & took my character sheet with me as I always did
I got an email from a party member the next day saying that 2 party memebers died & the others had to retreat since they were out of healing & they were organising for a rescue mission for the next game to retrieve the bodies for resurrections - I said I would be there but 5 minutes before the start I rang & said I would not be showing up again since I had warned them but no one cared or listened so suffer
maybe childish but it felt good - I dont know what happened but I really did not care
morale is if these players & GM out of game are not listening then leave - dont waste your time as I doubt they would change otherwise charge for in combat healing & they have to come to you not you to them
good luck
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I have had a group like this one.
I basically played the game of outlast, waited till all but one went down, and killed him on my turn. Beat the encounter with the spells I was hoarding, looted them and sold everything of no use to me. They were right pissed and I replied well what did you expect my character to do to a bunch of theiving bastards that sold off my share of treasure? Take the high road and walk away? Hell no, he wanted vengence. Then I walked away from the group and never looked back. Payback was immature and juvenile and mean spirited...but it was FUN.
You said you asked to join. What made you want to join these guys? If it's just an initial hazing that's one thing (still jerkish, but maybe they were just joking around and have your share tucked away some place?), but if it's their intention to just have you along to heal but not share in the spoils then bid them goodbye.
I'm usually an advocate of talking to people outside of the game to find out what the heck is going on, but it sounds as if you've already done that without satisfaction. In that case you really have no choice. Time to move on. Good luck!
Okay so just to be honest I'm the new guy in this equation, anyhoo, I just joined a group who has been gaming for a few years, several people have had to move and so when I asked if I could step into one of the vacant slots they said yes immediately.
Now comes the problem, I am getting screwed by the rest of the party in a sort of haze the new guy way and i can't do anything about it. I'm a healer and I tend to have everyone leaning on me to survive only to be dropped in the last round. Then they will leave me stable but unconscious while they loot everything, this last time the GM laid out cleric specific items for the loot and when we made it to town the loot was sold and I got 10 gold while everyone else got 20000 that's right 20000!
Out of character I was pissed and I said something, they all just go that that is just something their character would do and I was lucky I was getting anything at all (same from GM).
I'm tried talking to them out of character but that doesn't work, I'm thinking of withholding healing, something which would go against my character's core, and probably result in a TPK but What else can I do?
I don't know if they are RP'ing are just messing with you, nor do I know your character background, but selling cures might be an option. It may be passive-aggressive or just plain aggressive, but it might work. Another thing is that if you don't get look your character might die, and then they won't have a healer at all, unless you are nice enough to make another cleric. I guess I will read the rest of the post before I say anything else.
While i wholeheartedly agree with you Greint(over 60% of my chars were/are clerics), in most games Cleric comes down to the healer. Party buffs ? Bard/wizard in 90% chances got better than what you got and in most fights you need to heal. Thats why Cleric's got channel, so they can heal more efficiently, if they wanted to get cleric's spells a little break from being cure's all the time, they could of just made channel touch.
In a well played party most groups don't heal until after the fight. I thought that was a silly myth for a while until I got to game with my group's other DM. It was like magic. The cleric was always asking us did we need heals, and we bored him by always saying no. A cleric can be a decent combatant, and healing is not your job. It is just one way to play the cleric. Refuse to be a walking band-aid.
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While i wholeheartedly agree with you Geraint(over 60% of my chars were/are clerics), in most games Cleric comes down to the healer. Party buffs ? Bard/wizard in 90% chances got better than what you got and in most fights you need to heal. That's why Clerics got channel: so they can heal more efficiently. If they wanted to give clerics' spells a little break from being cure's all the time, they could have just made channel touch.In a well played party most groups don't heal until after the fight. I thought that was a silly myth for a while until I got to game with my group's other DM. It was like magic. The cleric was always asking us did we need heals, and we bored him by always saying no. A cleric can be a decent combatant, and healing is not your job. It is just one way to play the cleric. Refuse to be a walking band-aid.
I play clerics quite a lot.
My first ever cleric was in 3.5, when I was younger and playing 2ed I always, always played rangers, and I made an elven cleric of a nature god (still weening myself off rangers). If needed he would buff before combat, artillery during combat and heal after. As an elf he had a longbow, I spent two feats and it meant that our 4character party had ranged attacks that they never had before.
I wasn't a brilliant archer but combined with all of the other stuff I was doing it was a really effective character.
My current cleric of Shelyn debuffs and protects the wizard in most combats, it's great to be more of a utility caster.
Both characters would occasionally drop heals in combat but that wasn't their primary purpose.
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allright man heres what i would do, now i don't know how many sessions u have played with them so far, but i usually give all groups a total of 5 sessions before i judge whether its good for me or not, thers a lot of my friends who know i will do this, and the reason for it is the same as why your having problems. so play a small handfull of sessions to make sure this isn't them all just being douchy or hazing you becuase your new,
but if things still go bad, talk to your gm and explain to him (away from everyone else) whats going on and how your not liking your situation. if he does not step up and do the good gm thing, then BOUNCE.
there are too many players out there like this, and each one of them gives us true gamers a bad name. (although we are dorks with cardboard swords :) I can guarantee you that dropping them will help you find a group that worthy of playing with. especially since online play has become so popular. (although i have not tried this option myself yet)
but remember you did ask to join them and they very well could just be roleplaying their characters, although i would like to know alignments on these characters as well due to the fact a paladin wouldn't have let u be down for the loot trade in the first place.
Okay, I will do the devil's advocate...
From time to time my players like to play "evil" campaign... The most "good" alignement in this kind of games will be CN... I will NOT authorize a good guy in a party of neurotics CN and evil guy, because the good guy will not have fun.
If you don't like this kind of campaign you should not play, or you can get in the party's mood, get yourself kill or ask the DM to change your character and make one more in tune with the party.
It appear that they like this kind of game, it is their right to... If you don't like it, don't play with them, if you think you can have fun this way create a character in accordance to this kind of play. You're not going to have fun with a "good" player in a party of selfish ones (except if you like being robbed all the time... :p )
But to be clear, they are NOT playing wrong if they have fun playing like this... However the DM should have warned you...
Okay so just to be honest I'm the new guy in this equation, anyhoo, I just joined a group who has been gaming for a few years, several people have had to move and so when I asked if I could step into one of the vacant slots they said yes immediately.
Now comes the problem, I am getting screwed by the rest of the party in a sort of haze the new guy way and i can't do anything about it. I'm a healer and I tend to have everyone leaning on me to survive only to be dropped in the last round. Then they will leave me stable but unconscious while they loot everything, this last time the GM laid out cleric specific items for the loot and when we made it to town the loot was sold and I got 10 gold while everyone else got 20000 that's right 20000!
Out of character I was pissed and I said something, they all just go that that is just something their character would do and I was lucky I was getting anything at all (same from GM).
I'm tried talking to them out of character but that doesn't work, I'm thinking of withholding healing, something which would go against my character's core, and probably result in a TPK but What else can I do?
Life is to short to game with morons.
Withholding the healing ("Sorry guys, but seeing as I am down on loot I have to save my spells for all the things the loot could do. No healing today!"), leting the monsters smack the party around while you avoid it all, then finish the monster with a few area effect spells ("Whoops! Did I get you all with that? Well it's just what my character would do, I know you understand!") and then cleaning out ALL the loot (dead PC's - and they are all dead - included) sounds like a fun way to teach them a lesson about gaming with douche-bags, but I doubt it'll work.
The two options presented are:
A - give them a taste of their own medicine.
B - rise above it and move on.I would suggest taking option C.
Telling them that they are stopping you from having fun and asking, directly and bluntly but without swearing, shouting or getting overheated: "Why would you choose to stop me from having fun?"
If they come out with anything other than apologies then go for option B.
They need to know that they are the bad guys and you're not just 'flouncing' otherwise they'll keep on doing that kind of stuff.
Even if it doesn't help you, it might make them think twice with the next guy/gal.
#C — then if they don't recant, #A then #B, if they retract their douchiness, then it's all good.
Seriously, if i got 10gp out of my share of 20,000gp, their characters would be toast!
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Kill them and take their stuff. Next time they ask for Cure Critical Wounds cast Inflict Critical Wounds instead. Generally, screw them over royally until they're dead, then loot them.
When they roll up new characters, rinse and repeat. Continue until they realize that it's no fun to be screwed over royally. Then, leave the group.
If it was me I'd charge them for healing. Obviously if you aren't getting a share of the treasure they should pay you up front. Since they probably won't do that then wait till they are in dire need of healing. Also stay back out of the fights. Let them do the work and just tell them you are there to do healing for a price.
Now depending on your alignment if one of them is down apply a cause X wounds and say you were too late and they died. Even if you don't have raise dead they they did get 20,000 gp each. Out of character they will be pissed but you can pull the same card on them, in character it's something your character would do for being back stabbed so badly by the current party.
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Okay so just to be honest I'm the new guy in this equation, anyhoo, I just joined a group who has been gaming for a few years, several people have had to move and so when I asked if I could step into one of the vacant slots they said yes immediately.
Now comes the problem, I am getting screwed by the rest of the party in a sort of haze the new guy way and i can't do anything about it. I'm a healer and I tend to have everyone leaning on me to survive only to be dropped in the last round. Then they will leave me stable but unconscious while they loot everything, this last time the GM laid out cleric specific items for the loot and when we made it to town the loot was sold and I got 10 gold while everyone else got 20000 that's right 20000!
Out of character I was pissed and I said something, they all just go that that is just something their character would do and I was lucky I was getting anything at all (same from GM).
I'm tried talking to them out of character but that doesn't work, I'm thinking of withholding healing, something which would go against my character's core, and probably result in a TPK but What else can I do?
Charge them for healing all right... tell them they don't get so much as a Cure Light Wounds ever again until they pay you the 30,000gp they owe you. Yes, that's right... 30,000gp. That includes the "screwing with the cleric" tax. Tell them the extra is going as a donation to your church... maybe it will buy some atonement for their wicked souls. ;-)
A little more seriously though, it is better to solve this sort of thing outside of the game. If they won't hear your concerns outside of the game your only option is to find another group or adapt to their style of play. If it's an evil/chaotic/jerky campaign, then you should have the option to change your character to something that fits in better and won't get taken advantage of... that's assuming you're even interested in that sort of game (some are).
I would just walk, personally.
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Trying to teach them a lesson will only lead to arguments and bad blood.
All you can do is talk to them, as others have suggested.
"Guys, I feel abused as a player. I'm not having fun. If you don't want to treat me and my character with the same respect you treat each other, then I will leave. What do you want me to do?"
The very best you can do is be calm and reasonable. If they start shouting/cursing/degrading you, thank them for their honest answer and leave.
Act professionally and they will show you if they can be professional as well.
To be honest, I wouldn't even try the "I'll teach them a lesson", I would just never come back.
There is no reason to continue to waste your gas (I assume it's not at your house), put mileage on your car, and most importantly, waste your valuable time.
And giving you a line of "This is what my character would do", just reinforces the fact they aren't just crappy players, but people, as well. And especially the DM acting the same immature way.
I would drop them like a bad habit.
Trying to teach them a lesson will only lead to arguments and bad blood.
All you can do is talk to them, as others have suggested.
"Guys, I feel abused as a player. I'm not having fun. If you don't want to treat me and my character with the same respect you treat each other, then I will leave. What do you want me to do?"
The very best you can do is be calm and reasonable. If they start shouting/cursing/degrading you, thank them for their honest answer and leave.
Act professionally and they will show you if they can be professional as well.
Talking about how the party handles things would be good. Get to know how you should play then play accordingly. If you have to fight dirty to get your share then that's what you have to do. As long as all involved agree that's the style of play things should be good if with holding healing till pay is in hand is acceptable.
Doing that, while funny and a great 'bad experience' story, will still not teach them anything about why what they are doing is wrong.If they refuse to learn from their mistakes then they are doomed to repeat them. With someone else. Your point will be made, and your business concluded.
People with that much maturity will not learn any lesson, they will just write you off as a jerk and carry on being jerks themselves. All you have achieved is to stoop to their level - and among mutual acquaintances they will always have a story that justifies their bad behaviour. Better to just not go there.
Cirno's first rule of tabletop gaming: Don't play with jerks
Sub-rule to the first rule: If you are playing with jerks, cease doing so
Try using channel energy and heal both sides of the combat. If you have Selective Channeling you could have even more fun with who gets healing in combat.....
But seriously, playing the game should be fun. If the rest of the gaming group are being prats and the DM doesn't care, then find another group.
Okay so just to be honest I'm the new guy in this equation, anyhoo, I just joined a group who has been gaming for a few years, several people have had to move and so when I asked if I could step into one of the vacant slots they said yes immediately.
Now comes the problem, I am getting screwed by the rest of the party in a sort of haze the new guy way and i can't do anything about it. I'm a healer and I tend to have everyone leaning on me to survive only to be dropped in the last round. Then they will leave me stable but unconscious while they loot everything, this last time the GM laid out cleric specific items for the loot and when we made it to town the loot was sold and I got 10 gold while everyone else got 20000 that's right 20000!
Out of character I was pissed and I said something, they all just go that that is just something their character would do and I was lucky I was getting anything at all (same from GM).
I'm tried talking to them out of character but that doesn't work, I'm thinking of withholding healing, something which would go against my character's core, and probably result in a TPK but What else can I do?
I think that sounds cool. I like when people play in character, even when it can be a headache sometimes. What alignment is your cleric? Unless you're Lawful Good, just wait until they need a Restoration spell or something similar. Use leverage! Never forget that you're their lifeline!
I've been thinking about this for a couple days. Now I know my thoughts.
Don't withhold healing. But...
Next time you have a combat have your cleric protect himself. That means physically positioning himself out of harm's way (possibly a double-move). That means casting buffs on himself. Maybe shield of faith, and some cat's grace and so on. Whatever you've got access to, USE it. Spend the entire combat buffing yourself. Flush your spells if you need to. If you take damage, heal yourself.
If anyone else lives through the combat and questions you, then you can in-character explain things. "I am under-equipped relative to the threats this adventuring company regularly encounters. I am expected to stay alive to provide such healing and repair services as my god rewards me with. I cannot do this if I am dead or incapacitated. Since I am without means to provide myself adequate protection, I am forced to request of my gracious god such powers he may offer me. Were I not struggling for my very survival I am entirely sure that I would be able to share his grace with you during a fight instead of only after it is concluded."
Basically PLAY THE GAME. In-character. There are two possibilities here. Either the group Gets It and respects your spine and in-character practicality and the problem goes away or... they don't, are a bunch of childish jerks and you can safely leave, knowing they're not the kind of friends you deserve.
I frankly predict the former. You're being tested. Don't whine. Don't complain. Don't beg the DM to intercede. Play the game. Play it well.