Intimidate only targets a single opponent, Dazzling Display lets you target everyone within 30 ft.
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Intimidate only targets a single opponent, Dazzling Display lets you target everyone within 30 ft.
That was my first assumption, but in the description of the Demoralize section of the Intimidate skill it uses the word "openents" twice and "target" once.
The above interpretation makes sense and is probably what I will go with.
Shane
I agree that the wording in the main description is unclear. The action entry clarifies a bit: "Demoralizing an opponent is a standard action." Combined with the fact that Dazzling Display wouldn't do anything with the other interpretation, I think that's the intent.
Additionally this question has come up repeatedly, and James and Jason have reiterated that demoralize is against a single target only. I think the Pathfinder FAQ contains this too, but it isn't in the Core Rule FAQ yet. Might be worth clicking on the OP for this purpose.
Benefit: While wielding the weapon in which you have Weapon Focus, you can perform a bewildering show of prowess as a full-round action. Make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who can see your display.
How is this even remotely confusing? The feat allows you to demoralize all foes within 30 feet as a full-round action. Without the feat, you're stuck with one target as a standard action.
Am I not understanding the question, or is that completely straight-forward? O_o
My Inquisitor is going the Dazzling Display route...Standard action to demoralize all within 30 feet...she has +0 CHA bonus, but at 20th level she'd have +10 class bonus, +3 trait bonus, +3 skill focus and 20 ranks makes it a +36 Intimidate that'll be fun...
My Inquisitor is going the Dazzling Display route...Standard action to demoralize all within 30 feet...she has +0 CHA bonus, but at 20th level she'd have +10 class bonus, +3 trait bonus, +3 skill focus and 20 ranks makes it a +36 Intimidate that'll be fun...
The +3 from skill focus becomes +6 at level 10. :)
Why would I take Dazzling Display? To intimidate all foes around me. If I succeed by a large enough margin, I can try again to make them flee (fear effects stack). IIRC, DD is a full-round action.
To implement this idea, you can also take the Intimidating Prowess feat to add the Strength modifier to your check. Half-orcs have +2, too. The Bully character trait gives +1. The Persuasuve feat gives +4. Finally, size have an effect on the check: being larger than your opponent gives another +4. All in all, enough modifier to have some rounds of Shaken and a possible retry for Frightened/Panicked.
Additionally, taking Shatter Defences allow you to consider your intimidated foes as flat-footed, which is nice in itself and even more interesting for rogue builds (or monks with Medusa's Wrath).
The big problem with this build is that Intimidate/Demoralize doesn't work on every monster you might encounter (some don't have a high enough Int, some are immune, etc).
My Inquisitor is going the Dazzling Display route...Standard action to demoralize all within 30 feet...she has +0 CHA bonus, but at 20th level she'd have +10 class bonus, +3 trait bonus, +3 skill focus and 20 ranks makes it a +36 Intimidate that'll be fun...
Dazzling Display is a full-round action though
Why would I take Dazzling Display? To intimidate all foes around me. If I succeed by a large enough margin, I can try again to make them flee (fear effects stack). IIRC, DD is a full-round action.
To implement this idea, you can also take the Intimidating Prowess feat to add the Strength modifier to your check. Half-orcs have +2, too. The Bully character trait gives +1. The Persuasuve feat gives +4. Finally, size have an effect on the check: being larger than your opponent gives another +4. All in all, enough modifier to have some rounds of Shaken and a possible retry for Frightened/Panicked.
Additionally, taking Shatter Defences allow you to consider your intimidated foes as flat-footed, which is nice in itself and even more interesting for rogue builds (or monks with Medusa's Wrath).The big problem with this build is that Intimidate/Demoralize doesn't work on every monster you might encounter (some don't have a high enough Int, some are immune, etc).
If intimidate can stack to fear someone I might go back to the 3.5 version of resisting it. Bypassing HD is too easy.
Would it have to be fear from a different source?
Why would I take Dazzling Display? To intimidate all foes around me. If I succeed by a large enough margin, I can try again to make them flee (fear effects stack). IIRC, DD is a full-round action.
To implement this idea, you can also take the Intimidating Prowess feat to add the Strength modifier to your check. Half-orcs have +2, too. The Bully character trait gives +1. The Persuasuve feat gives +4. Finally, size have an effect on the check: being larger than your opponent gives another +4. All in all, enough modifier to have some rounds of Shaken and a possible retry for Frightened/Panicked.
Additionally, taking Shatter Defences allow you to consider your intimidated foes as flat-footed, which is nice in itself and even more interesting for rogue builds (or monks with Medusa's Wrath).The big problem with this build is that Intimidate/Demoralize doesn't work on every monster you might encounter (some don't have a high enough Int, some are immune, etc).
If intimidate can stack to fear someone I might go back to the 3.5 version of resisting it. Bypassing HD is too easy.
Would it have to be fear from a different source?
Pathfinder Society ruled that intimidate does not stack with itself but does increase the durration. There is a -5 penalty for each successive attempt to intimidate the target by the same person (but I know you can get a build to beat the DC by 15 fairly reliably, so that would still let you get up to panicked.) There has not been an official ruling outside of Pathfinder Society on this, and Pathfinder society has made it clear that their rulings do not necessarily determine final rulings for how the game works.
I know in my game we let it stack. It hasn't come up very much, even though we have a bard focusing in it.
Actually, according to this post the shaken condition gained from Intimidate doesn't stack like other fear effects. Demoralizing an opponent twice will just increase the duration.
I seem to remember an even more recent post from someone at Paizo stating that it doesn't even stack with other fear effects. So demoralize + frightened does not result in panicked and demoralize + shaken from another source doesn't even result in frightened. But I can't find such a post right now so it might have been my imagination.
Actually, according to this post the shaken condition gained from Intimidate doesn't stack like other fear effects. Demoralizing an opponent twice will just increase the duration.
I seem to remember an even more recent post from someone at Paizo stating that it doesn't even stack with other fear effects. So demoralize + frightened does not result in panicked and demoralize + shaken from another source doesn't even result in frightened. But I can't find such a post right now so it might have been my imagination.
I know it did not stack in 3.5. I was just wondering if I missed a change somewhere.
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Actually, according to this post the shaken condition gained from Intimidate doesn't stack like other fear effects. Demoralizing an opponent twice will just increase the duration.
All due respect, but that is not what the post you linked says. It says multiple Demoralize attempts don't stack. It says nothing about demoralizing's ability to stack with other sources of fear. Shaken from a Fear spell + Shaken from a Demoralize attempt should still stack.
If not, it really really needs to be made crystal clear. I have a Pathfinder Society character specifically designed around using multiple methods of stacking fear conditions, and removing Intimidate/Dazzling Display would cripple this build.
Read my post again. I said
Actually, according to this post the shaken condition gained from Intimidate doesn't stack like other fear effects.
I meant multiple intimidations don't stack like multiple fear-effect spells (or SLAs or whatever).
The part about Intimidation not stacking with other fear effects was a different matter, which I THINK I have read somewhere recently. As I said, that might be my imagination as I wasn't able to find such a post when I looked for it.
Anyway, conciderigng the not-so-small number of intimidation-topics in the rules question archives, I think this topic has earned it's FAQ-flag. I'll add one vote.
My Inquisitor is going the Dazzling Display route...Standard action to demoralize all within 30 feet...she has +0 CHA bonus, but at 20th level she'd have +10 class bonus, +3 trait bonus, +3 skill focus and 20 ranks makes it a +36 Intimidate that'll be fun...The +3 from skill focus becomes +6 at level 10. :)
Ah yes, I forgot about that...+39...that's fun...
The 3rd Printing of the Core Rulebook adds the sentence
"This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened."
The 3rd Printing of the Core Rulebook adds the sentence
"This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened."
The PSRD has not been updated with that text, but is up to data with the 3.0 errata. This change is also not listed in any of the errata. I have a 1st printing book, so I can't verify this, but if it was changed it wasn't documented.
The 3rd Printing of the Core Rulebook adds the sentence
"This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened."
I'm looked in both my 3rd and 4th printing books and couldn't find this. Any chance you have a page number or such?
Interesting, now that you point it out, the sentence is actually not in my fourth printing PDF. Weird.
You can find it in the fourth printing errata files "First Printing v1.2" and "Second Printing v2.1", but not in the fourth printing errata "Third Printing v3.0". It is also in none of the third printing errata files (i.e. "First Printing v1.1" and "Second Printing v2.0")
Something is fishy there.
The errata says:
• Page 99 —In the Intimidate skill, add the following sentence after the first sentence of the demoralize paragraph:
This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened.
Why would I take Dazzling Display? To intimidate all foes around me. If I succeed by a large enough margin, I can try again to make them flee (fear effects stack). IIRC, DD is a full-round action.
To implement this idea, you can also take the Intimidating Prowess feat to add the Strength modifier to your check. Half-orcs have +2, too. The Bully character trait gives +1. The Persuasuve feat gives +4. Finally, size have an effect on the check: being larger than your opponent gives another +4. All in all, enough modifier to have some rounds of Shaken and a possible retry for Frightened/Panicked.
Additionally, taking Shatter Defences allow you to consider your intimidated foes as flat-footed, which is nice in itself and even more interesting for rogue builds (or monks with Medusa's Wrath).The big problem with this build is that Intimidate/Demoralize doesn't work on every monster you might encounter (some don't have a high enough Int, some are immune, etc).
Don't forget the favored class bonus for the Half Orc, +1/2 to Intimidate per level for another +10.
So with not Chr bonus or additional feats you could have +10 Inquisitor stern gaze, +10 Half-Orc FC bonus, +2 Orc Intimidate bonus, +20 Ranks, +3 Class Skill for +45 at 20th level. Then add in Persuasive, and skill focus Intimidate for another +10. I'd assume by 20th you'd have some stat boosting items raising Chr and Str allowing Intimidating Prowess to give you +10 stat bonus. So +65 to intimate.
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Blave: you are right, I misread your first (and quoted!) sentence. My bad.
I believe I know why they removed that sentence in the Demoralize description now. Appendix 2: Condidtions no longer has wording in it under the Shaken/Frightened/Panicked entries that say that fear conditions stack. It looks to me like they intentionally removed stackable fear effects.
Assuming I haven't missed it in my admittedly brief scan of the 4th printing Core Rulebook. If this is the case, I have to say I am SORELY disappointed. I designed my Pathfinder Society character around stacking multiple sources of fear effects, and now I might as well tear up his character sheet.
Blave: you are right, I misread your first (and quoted!) sentence. My bad.I believe I know why they removed that sentence in the Demoralize description now. Appendix 2: Condidtions no longer has wording in it under the Shaken/Frightened/Panicked entries that say that fear conditions stack. It looks to me like they intentionally removed stackable fear effects.
Assuming I haven't missed it in my admittedly brief scan of the 4th printing Core Rulebook. If this is the case, I have to say I am SORELY disappointed. I designed my Pathfinder Society character around stacking multiple sources of fear effects, and now I might as well tear up his character sheet.
The PRD still has the wording under the fear listing.
Blave: you are right, I misread your first (and quoted!) sentence. My bad.I believe I know why they removed that sentence in the Demoralize description now. Appendix 2: Condidtions no longer has wording in it under the Shaken/Frightened/Panicked entries that say that fear conditions stack. It looks to me like they intentionally removed stackable fear effects.
Assuming I haven't missed it in my admittedly brief scan of the 4th printing Core Rulebook. If this is the case, I have to say I am SORELY disappointed. I designed my Pathfinder Society character around stacking multiple sources of fear effects, and now I might as well tear up his character sheet.
Fear not! Fear still stacks...apparently...
Page 563 from the Core Rulebook:Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are c umulative.
A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes
frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened
becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is
made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.
I don't know what this means for the intimidate skill though. Fixed in one errata but not included in the following 2 printings...
Do the shaken affect stack from demoralize? In second printing errata it said no, but the errata wasn't included in 3rd or 4th printings.As Jason Bulmahn is so eager to point out, what I'm about to say is not a ruling on the rules, nor should it be taken as errata or the law...
...but no, shaken effects from demoralize should not stack. Frightened and Panicked are too overwhelming a condition to arise from a simple series of skill checks in my mind.
So there you have it. Kinda...
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So there you have it. Kinda...Do the shaken affect stack from demoralize? In second printing errata it said no, but the errata wasn't included in 3rd or 4th printings.As Jason Bulmahn is so eager to point out, what I'm about to say is not a ruling on the rules, nor should it be taken as errata or the law...
...but no, shaken effects from demoralize should not stack. Frightened and Panicked are too overwhelming a condition to arise from a simple series of skill checks in my mind.
Intimidate on its own can't get creatures past shaken.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq
Q: What is the difference between the Dazzling Display feat and using the Demoralize Opponent of the Intimidate Skill? It seems both affect all opponents within 30'. Is Intimidate supposed to be worded to affect only one?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) The intimidate skill says "If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round." which means its affecting a single target. Where the Dazzling Display feat is affecting ALL targets with 30ft. [Source]
Q: (10/8/09) Intimidate Skill (Demoralize) - Can you demoralize the same being more than once, and have the effects stack?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) The shaken condition gained in this matter cannot be stacked to create a stronger condition. If you succeed at another demoralize attempt, you just extend the shaken condition's duration. There was a sentence left out of the skill description that will be noted in a future errata update. [Source]
A: (Jason Bulmahn) This is indeed the case... [Source]
Q: (10/8/09) Does the above mean a Shaken condition imposed by a Intimidate Skill - Demoralise can never be upgraded by another use source of a Fear condition?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) Correct. Though, as noted above, it can extend the duration of the shaken condition. [Source]
Q: (10/8/09) Does this idea that Shaken + Shaken only increases the duration of the Shaken condition come into effect only when Demoralise is in the mix?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) Yes. [Source]
