So LOH dosn't have a caster lvl but is magic healing. the Bearded devil says that to heal while under his bleed effect requires a caster lvl check. What do do? Dose the pally make the heal check? But thats a standard action vs his swift LOH. I'm just confused about how the two work with eachother. And a Bearded devil is among the type of foes I would expect a pally to eventualy fight in Pathfinder. (cus pallies and devils get along soo well).
I thought about makeing it like a will save, cus divine casters use will and heal uses will but it didn't feel right. Thoughts?
Just make a standard caster level check. A paladin's CL is equal to Class Level-3.
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level – 3.
|
If you decide to enforce a caster level check, it should be Paladin's level - 3. He may still make the check with a negative caster level, it's just hard.
But I don't think it's specified, so you could just as easily say Lay on Hands and Channel Energy work as a 'loophole' in the devil's bleed ability. As devils are all about serving the letter of the law and not the spirit, I think this is humorously fitting.
I would actually use the paladin's level for the caster level of the check. LoH is gained at first level, so it is more of a core paladin feature than spell casting, so I do not think he should be taking the -3 penalty.
I would actually give Lay on Hands a free pass. As mentioned above, Paladin's are pretty specialized in dealing with evil outsiders. Throw them a bone there, I say.
As far as Channel Energy is concerned, since it does offer a save, it ought to have a caster level. For Channel Energy, I'd make the caster level equal to the cleric's caster level. I might waive that check for a caster with the Alignment Channel feat for lawful or evil outsiders.
|
|
I would actually give Lay on Hands a free pass. As mentioned above, Paladin's are pretty specialized in dealing with evil outsiders. Throw them a bone there, I say.
As far as Channel Energy is concerned, since it does offer a save, it ought to have a caster level. For Channel Energy, I'd make the caster level equal to the cleric's caster level. I might waive that check for a caster with the Alignment Channel feat for lawful or evil outsiders.
Yes, poisons all have caster levels. (Sorry, had to point out a rather weak argument). The real argument here is that the glossary in the "Getting Started" section specifically calls out (Su) abilities as being..
... magical attacks, defenses, and qualities.
Since they are magical, things that defend against magical things work against Su abilities.
I'd say that (by default) the caster level would be equal to your effective class level for the ability. A paladin's channel energy would be a -3 because their "effective level" is based on their effective cleric level, not their full paladin level.
As far as Channel Energy is concerned, since it does offer a save, it ought to have a caster level. For Channel Energy, I'd make the caster level equal to the cleric's caster level. I might waive that check for a caster with the Alignment Channel feat for lawful or evil outsiders.Yes, poisons all have caster levels. (Sorry, had to point out a rather weak argument). The real argument here is that the glossary in the "Getting Started" section specifically calls out (Su) abilities as being..
... magical attacks, defenses, and qualities.Since they are magical, things that defend against magical things work against Su abilities.
You are right. I really ought to have said "because it does offer a save and is (pseudo-)magical, it ought to have a caster level". I stand corrected. Poisons don't need caster levels. Except the spell poison, which already has one...
So, just to make sure I am understanding your position correctly, a paladin that uses her Lay on Hands ability on a single target (the regular use of LoH), her "caster level" for the ability would be her paladin level. Should she decide to use 2 LoH uses to do a Channel Energy Burst, her "caster level" would be her paladin level -3. Is that correct?
|
|
As far as Channel Energy is concerned, since it does offer a save, it ought to have a caster level. For Channel Energy, I'd make the caster level equal to the cleric's caster level. I might waive that check for a caster with the Alignment Channel feat for lawful or evil outsiders.Yes, poisons all have caster levels. (Sorry, had to point out a rather weak argument). The real argument here is that the glossary in the "Getting Started" section specifically calls out (Su) abilities as being..
... magical attacks, defenses, and qualities.Since they are magical, things that defend against magical things work against Su abilities.You are right. I really ought to have said "because it does offer a save and is (pseudo-)magical, it ought to have a caster level". I stand corrected. Poisons don't need caster levels. Except the spell poison, which already has one...
So, just to make sure I am understanding your position correctly, a paladin that uses her Lay on Hands ability on a single target (the regular use of LoH), her "caster level" for the ability would be her paladin level. Should she decide to use 2 LoH uses to do a Channel Energy Burst, her "caster level" would be her paladin level -3. Is that correct?
Yeah, sounds weird when you use 2 full caster level uses on a single -3 use, but paladins are really just not that good at it ;)
Yeah, sounds weird when you use 2 full caster level uses on a single -3 use, but paladins are really just not that good at it ;)
As far as Channel Energy is concerned, since it does offer a save, it ought to have a caster level. For Channel Energy, I'd make the caster level equal to the cleric's caster level. I might waive that check for a caster with the Alignment Channel feat for lawful or evil outsiders.Yes, poisons all have caster levels. (Sorry, had to point out a rather weak argument). The real argument here is that the glossary in the "Getting Started" section specifically calls out (Su) abilities as being..
... magical attacks, defenses, and qualities.Since they are magical, things that defend against magical things work against Su abilities.You are right. I really ought to have said "because it does offer a save and is (pseudo-)magical, it ought to have a caster level". I stand corrected. Poisons don't need caster levels. Except the spell poison, which already has one...
So, just to make sure I am understanding your position correctly, a paladin that uses her Lay on Hands ability on a single target (the regular use of LoH), her "caster level" for the ability would be her paladin level. Should she decide to use 2 LoH uses to do a Channel Energy Burst, her "caster level" would be her paladin level -3. Is that correct?
I see it more as taking the hit in caster level and the extra LoH to attempt to heal all allies within 30 feet of their bearded devil wounds, rather than just focusing on one poor injured ally.
It also specifically calls out that the spell doesn't function if you fail the caster level check. Given that, in addition to the rest, I'd say LoH just...works...it's not a spell, it's not affected by the infernal wound.
um, LOH is baised on 1/2 pally lvl. So at lvl 5 it is a lvl 2 ability. (2d6 and 2+cha/day). so why wouldn't it use the pally's full lvl exactly? It is baised on it. If the ability is calculated with full lvl in mind, as in it scales nicely every other lvl, why get -3?
I actualy like the loophole argument. Maybe not RAW but it has flavor and roleplay to it. Plus finding loopholes only makes devils madder, which is the job of the pally.
Are close range spells only done at half caster level too?
Close: The spell reaches as far as 25 feet away from you. The maximum range increases by 5 feet for every two full caster levels.
Your range only increases every two levels. The only argument I can see for the "caster level" of LoH not being full paladin level is that they gain it at second level. With that in mind, I could potentially see their "caster level" being paladin level -1.