I have to admit, I did hate to deal with characters from Shou Lung that were "Samurai" and "ninja" when they were really Knights and mystically trained assassins. Plus people feel like if a class is named samurai, they have to have a katana as their main weapon, which again didn't seem quite right for Shou Lung.
|
No I am fine with a Ninja archetype or some neat new PRC's, but honestly that is all a Ninja is, a rogue in a new outfit.
I know this may go against the grain of what many people see as the ninja being a rogue, but I've always seen the ninja in-game as being an archetype of monk. That's what I use when I want to have my players deal ninjas. All the hallmarks of the ninja come built in with the monk class: weapons (shuriken, short sword [ninja-to], etc.), unarmed combat skill, stealth, mystic abilities (ki pool). So why can't you use a monk and just call it a ninja?
|
All the hallmarks of the ninja come built in with the monk class: weapons (shuriken, short sword [ninja-to], etc.), unarmed combat skill, stealth, mystic abilities (ki pool).
Except ninja aren't really noted for unarmed combat skill. If anything, ninja are noted for never being without a weapon, even if you THOUGHT they were unarmed.
All the hallmarks of the ninja come built in with the monk class: weapons (shuriken, short sword [ninja-to], etc.), unarmed combat skill, stealth, mystic abilities (ki pool).Except ninja aren't really noted for unarmed combat skill. If anything, ninja are noted for never being without a weapon, even if you THOUGHT they were unarmed.
This! Ninja and over the top martial arts are both east Asian, but they are not one and the same.
Agreed, Ninja's were not unarmed. However this is a great time for unarmed fighter archetype. Or a monk with less mystic powers.
I have to admit, I did hate to deal with characters from Shou Lung that were "Samurai" and "ninja" when they were really Knights and mystically trained assassins. Plus people feel like if a class is named samurai, they have to have a katana as their main weapon, which again didn't seem quite right for Shou Lung.
Exactly! Unless a base class is intended to apply to a fairly narrow geographical region like Ninja and Samurai did, there is no reason to use those names.
In fact, in the "naming of the Magus thread", James and Erik expressed exactly that reservation when discounting several of the regional/national warrior nametypes. Why would this be any different?
My stance is solidifying. I call for new classes — there is a need — but they need broader names. Ninja and samurai both hail from such a tiny sliver of time and geography when compared to the rest of east Asia.
The Rogue does mechanically just what a ninja does,
Because that's what it did in Complete Adventurer.
He is stealthy, has "Ninja" skills, can do mystic tricks , hell he can go invisible at level 4
You can't say that with your examples.
A pre-bias is AGAIN influencing your argument. "The Ninja will be just like the Rogue because they do the same things even though Paizo hasn't created a Ninja, but all your examples are TOTALLY wrong because the Paizo created classes are nothing like what you could do without them."
Without the Inquisitor, Summoner, Oracle or other classes made, why aren't those just modifications of existing classes?
Summoners are Conjuration Wizards. Oracles are Divination Wizards or Clerics. Inquisitors are Paladins.
|
I don't care what a Ninja should be. I was just making the point that people are pre-biased because of Complete AdventurerI don't think I'm overly biased because of that book, since I:
1. never owned it, and
2. only briefly thumbed through it at best.I can build a Summoner 100% from the Wizard.Show me. I expect it to fully replicate the eidolon concept at least somewhat faithfully.
You can kinda make a ranger with fighter and druid.
You can kinda make a paladin with a cleric and a fighterYou can kinda make a barbarian with fighter.
But all of them would be missing key features that make them what they are. And all would either be underpowered relative to the class level or have features that didn't really fit the concept.
Why only "kinda" do something?
You keep saying that, but you do nothing to show how a ninja can NOT be done by using a rogue character.
Because I am not pre-supposing what Paizo is going to do with it.
And I eagerly await your wizard "summoner" build. Keep in mind, if it lacks the eidolon, you lose.
Thank you for making my point.
|
|
And I eagerly await your wizard "summoner" build. Keep in mind, if it lacks the eidolon, you lose.Thank you for making my point.
Except what I'm basing my "ninja = rogue" opinion on is my knowledge of what the PFRPG rogue class can do, what historical ninjas did, and the popular conception of ninjas. And, to me, there's no disconnect. Although my "ninja" build did include some shadowdancer levels, I could do another "ninja" build just as representative of what I think a ninja should be with just rogue levels.
Really, I'd like someone to tell me what a rogue-based "ninja" really lacks that is so inherent to the title of "ninja". Ask 100 people what a ninja can do, and I doubt that more than one or two of them will come up with things that go outside the scope of a PFRPG rogue. I know I certainly don't think of shape-changing or splitting into duplicates when I hear the term "ninja". And most of the other things can be easily accomplished with rogue abilities (like using Major Magic for the Vanish SLA) or equipment (such as smokesticks).
Except what I'm basing my "ninja = rogue" opinion on is my knowledge of what the PFRPG rogue class can do, what historical ninjas did, and the popular conception of ninjas.And I eagerly await your wizard "summoner" build. Keep in mind, if it lacks the eidolon, you lose.Thank you for making my point.
And you are basing your opinion on what a Summoner Wizard can do using your knowledge of what the Pathfinder Summoner is able to do. Before the Summoner was created, there was no reason to presuppose the existence or use of an "Eidolon."
|
|
And I eagerly await your wizard "summoner" build. Keep in mind, if it lacks the eidolon, you lose.Thank you for making my point.Except what I'm basing my "ninja = rogue" opinion on is my knowledge of what the PFRPG rogue class can do, what historical ninjas did, and the popular conception of ninjas. And, to me, there's no disconnect. Although my "ninja" build did include some shadowdancer levels, I could do another "ninja" build just as representative of what I think a ninja should be with just rogue levels.
Really, I'd like someone to tell me what a rogue-based "ninja" really lacks that is so inherent to the title of "ninja". Ask 100 people what a ninja can do, and I doubt that more than one or two of them will come up with things that go outside the scope of a PFRPG rogue. I know I certainly don't think of shape-changing or splitting into duplicates when I hear the term "ninja". And most of the other things can be easily accomplished with rogue abilities (like using Major Magic for the Vanish SLA) or equipment (such as smokesticks).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
Dead horse I know, but I find this website a better judge of popular conceptions of something than, say, an individual person living outside of the culture of it's formation.
I think the fact that Ninja as a subclass has been available since 2E kind of says there is a demand for it.
And you are basing your opinion on what a Summoner Wizard can do using your knowledge of what the Pathfinder Summoner is able to do. Before the Summoner was created, there was no reason to presuppose the existence or use of an "Eidolon."
Here lies the point of the topic. You can do a decent, and IMHO, even very good ninja wih rogue.
This does not means that one could add more archetype (more minor and major magic, like swashbucler has more combat feats, as an example) or a true whole class.
It's true that even one could appreciate a new archetype or class, is not strictly needed to play that concept.
|
|
Really, I'd like someone to tell me what a rogue-based "ninja" really lacks that is so inherent to the title of "ninja". Ask 100 people what a ninja can do, and I doubt that more than one or two of them will come up with things that go outside the scope of a PFRPG rogue. I know I certainly don't think of shape-changing or splitting into duplicates when I hear the term "ninja". And most of the other things can be easily accomplished with rogue abilities (like using Major Magic for the Vanish SLA) or equipment (such as smokesticks).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
No. I didn't ask for a wikipedia reference. I want you to tell me specifically what YOU think a ninja should be able to do that a rogue can't do. Because so far the big things I've heard are shape-changing and splitting into duplicates...something that I have never associated with ninjas. You can copy-paste it from the wikipedia article if you want, but I'm not gonna read through the entire thing just because you can't be bothered to type up your own actual opinion.
|
|
No. I didn't ask for a wikipedia reference. I want you to tell me specifically what YOU think a ninja should be able to do that a rogue can't do. Because so far the big things I've heard are shape-changing and splitting into duplicates...something that I have never associated with ninjas. You can copy-paste it from the wikipedia article if you want, but I'm not gonna read through the entire thing just because you can't be bothered to type up your own actual opinion.
From the wikipedia article:
Rough description of a ninja.
"A ninja or shinobi was a covert agent or mercenary of feudal Japan specializing in unorthodox arts of war. The functions of the ninja included espionage, sabotage, infiltration, and assassination, as well as open combat in certain situations.[1] The ninja, using covert methods of waging war, were contrasted with the samurai, who had strict rules about honor and combat.[2]"
Legendary powers of the Ninja
"Superhuman or supernatural powers were often associated with the ninja. Some legends include flight, invisibility, shapeshifting, the ability to "split" into multiple bodies, the summoning of animals, and control over the five classical elements. These fabulous notions have stemmed from popular imagination regarding the ninja's mysterious status, as well as romantic ideas found in later Japanese arts of the Edo period. Magical powers were sometimes rooted in the ninja's own efforts to disseminate fanciful information. For example, Nakagawa Shoshujin, the 17th century founder of Nakagawa-ryū, claimed in his own writings (Okufuji Monogatari) that he had the ability to transform into birds and animals.[64]
Perceived control over the elements may be grounded in real tactics, which were categorized by association with forces of nature. For example, the practice of starting fires in order to cover a ninja's trail falls under katon-no-jutsu ("fire techniques").[91]
Actor portraying Nikki Danjō, a villain from the kabuki play Sendai Hagi. Shown with hands in a kuji-in seal, which allows him to transform into a giant rat. Woodblock print on paper. Kunisada, 1857.
The ninja's adaption of kites in espionage and warfare is another subject of legends. Accounts exist of ninjas being lifted into the air by kites, where they flew over hostile terrain and descended into, or dropped bombs on enemy territory.[72] Kites were indeed used in Japanese warfare, but mostly for the purpose of sending messages and relaying signals.[95] Turnbull suggests that kites lifting a man into midair might have been technically feasible, but states that the use of kites to form a human "hang glider" falls squarely in the realm of fantasy.[96] However, references to man-lifting kites exist in works dating to the relevant era and before, including Sun Tzu's The Art of War."
I would enjoy playing this character. It is a mix of Ranger, druid and assassin. I personally don't really see the rogue in it, but that keeps coming up, probably because of the complete adventurer and oriental adventurer version.
This is not a ninja to you. Fine. Don't play it or allow it your games if you don't like it.
Some people don't want to play a historical ninja any more than they want to play a historical cleric.
Certainly you see a lot of crazy non-historical ninjas in Japanese culture. Look at every ninja video game ever made! Even the most realistic of the lot (Tenchu) has a heavy dose of the supernatural. When you look at Shinobi or Ninja Gaiden or the like, you see magic. It's part of the ninja myth, at least as much as it is part of the "bard" myth, whatever the heck that is.
I think the power lists from ninja videogames sort of set the bar there. You may disagree, and you may prefer the historical ninja, but Pathfinder Europe & Africa have an abundance of supernatural powers, I think Pathfinder Asia ought to as well.
|
|
My question is this: If we're going to create new classes to do things that existing classes already do, then where do we draw the line? Should every character concept someone thinks up be drawn up as a 20-level base class? Should we declare all the prestige classes as obsolete and redo them as 20-level base classes? Do we really want to buy a 320 page hardcover entitled "Big Book of Mostly Redundant Character Classes: Volume I - Minor Variants of the Rogue"?
Seems to me it would just be easier to switch to a class-less system. That way you can customize your character as you want.
Personally, I think a Ninja archetype for the Monk would better suit the ninja. That said, it would be cool to see a ninja class.
I don't believe we should use the realistic ninja for a ninja class for the same reason we don't use the realistic paladin or the realistic druid. Did paladins really Lay on Heads? I don't think druids could actually wild shape. Keep it fantasy and fantastical or else, yes, it will just be a rogue in PJs.
For supernatural abilities, some examples taken from the wiki article and a book I own about ninjas as well as tropes from video games and movies include:
- Flight
- Invisibility
- Shapeshifting
- Summoning Animals
- Walking on Water
- Having some control over the five elements
- Sealing ghosts/demons (onis, tengus, yokai, kappa, etc)
- Teleportation and switching places with someone.
- Kuji-kiri
Kuji-kiri is an important one that should be the focus for the ninja. I can see this making it truely its own from other classes, allowing it to use supernatural abilities in some fashion.
Anyways, if the ninja is just going to be sneak and assassinate, then just make it a rogue. If he will be using the fantastic powers from legend, then I can see it being an archetype for the monk. If they are using the Kuji-kiri for a special mechanism, then yes, make it a base 20 class. That is my opinion.
My question is this: If we're going to create new classes to do things that existing classes already do, then where do we draw the line? Should every character concept someone thinks up be drawn up as a 20-level base class? Should we declare all the prestige classes as obsolete and redo them as 20-level base classes? Do we really want to buy a 320 page hardcover entitled "Big Book of Mostly Redundant Character Classes: Volume I - Minor Variants of the Rogue"?
Seems to me it would just be easier to switch to a class-less system. That way you can customize your character as you want.
Ninjas are teh cool. But...
+1
My question is this: If we're going to create new classes to do things that existing classes already do, then where do we draw the line? Should every character concept someone thinks up be drawn up as a 20-level base class? Should we declare all the prestige classes as obsolete and redo them as 20-level base classes? Do we really want to buy a 320 page hardcover entitled "Big Book of Mostly Redundant Character Classes: Volume I - Minor Variants of the Rogue"?
Seems to me it would just be easier to switch to a class-less system. That way you can customize your character as you want.
I don't disagree.
Part and parcel of a classful system.
This is an old debate, and the only thing that will settle it is Paizo's decision, where one camp will be disappointed and the other will be satisfied. Then we start bickering about whether "Apache" should be a class, I suppose.
Personally, I think a Ninja archetype for the Monk would better suit the ninja. That said, it would be cool to see a ninja class.
I don't believe we should use the realistic ninja for a ninja class for the same reason we don't use the realistic paladin or the realistic druid. Keep it fantasy and fantastical or else, yes, it will just be a rogue in PJs.
For supernatural abilities, some examples taken from the wiki article and a book I own about ninjas include:
- Flight
- Invisibility
- Shapeshifting
- Summoning Animals
- Walking on Water
- Having some control over the five elements
- Teleportation and switching places with someone.
- Kuji-kiriKuji-kiri is an important one that should be the focus for the ninja. I can see this making it truely its own from other classes, allowing it to use supernatural abilities in some fashion.
Anyways, if the ninja is just going to be sneak and assassinate, then just make it a rogue. If he will be using the fantastic powers from legend, then I can see it being an archetype for the monk. If they are using the Kuji-kiri for a special mechanism, then yes, make it a base 20 class. That is my opinion.
Don't forget the move where wehn you're hit, you avoid the attack by turning into a log.
|
|
My question is this: If we're going to create new classes to do things that existing classes already do, then where do we draw the line? Should every character concept someone thinks up be drawn up as a 20-level base class? Should we declare all the prestige classes as obsolete and redo them as 20-level base classes? Do we really want to buy a 320 page hardcover entitled "Big Book of Mostly Redundant Character Classes: Volume I - Minor Variants of the Rogue"?
Seems to me it would just be easier to switch to a class-less system. That way you can customize your character as you want.
And we are saying that yes, YOU can create YOUR version of a ninja using existing rules.
But YOUR version of a ninja isn't THE version of a ninja. Some of us don't even think rogue is what the base class should be based on.
Don't forget the move where wehn you're hit, you avoid the attack by turning into a log.
lol that would actually be cool.
I wouldn't mind seeing a ninja class. Honestly, as it stands, a ninja (as they have been in DnD in the past) would be a Monk/Rogue/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster. That's a little cluttered, and definitely sub-optimal. Not to mention the steep attribute requirements. I'd actually look to 2nd ed for a good iconic DnD ninja. In 2nd ed, the Ninja was the only archetype that really got its own class after the base classes were out. It's archetype was a more fighty rogue with the option to add in a few spells, all of which were 'ninja' spells. Normally I'm not a fan of separate spell lists (I thought it was kind of a bad idea when the Bard got a separate spell list), but for the ninja, it fits. Spell levels 1-4, all spells only have somatic components. None of them are damaging spells, they just provide various effects.
I do understand what people are saying when they don't want a ninja class, as I'm not a huge fan of additional classes either. I'm honestly not wild about the inclusion of the new classes in the APG (although I have kind of grown to adore the Witch), and I haven't been too impressed with the Magus beta either. But even since first edition, DnD players and designers all felt that the rogue (or thief in earlier editions) was not appropriate for the iconic Ninja.
Do I think other eastern archetypes need separate classes? No. A samurai works well as a fighter, or a paladin, or a cavalier, or even a ranger or barbarian, depending on the type of samurai you're playing. A shugenja is very like a druid or cleric, and a Wu Jen would be a sorcerer or wizard. But the ninja isn't exactly a rogue. It has rogue elements, like the sneaking, but it also has sorcerer elements, like the supernatural abilities the ninja have in popular culture.
Even if you're playing a more realistic ninja, your best bet is to go monk/assassin, or for just a bit of flare, monk/shadowdancer (if you don't mind not doing a lot of damage). If you're looking for a mystic ninja, maybe a sorcerer/shadowdancer. Those combinations could work, but most of the tim, they kind of feel incomplete, especially to those of us who LOVE ninjas (ninjas > pirates).
In any case, I think the inclusion of a ninja class would be acceptable, and maybe even a good thing. The inclusion of an entire set of eastern classes, however, I don't think would be a good thing.
before anyone says it, yes, I know there was a book filled with eastern classes in 1ts and 2nd editions, but those classes never made it outside of Kara Tur, and were VERY unpopular with people, whereas the ninja got it's own class handbook and was widely used in many campaigns. In comparison to the Kara Tur book, anyway.
Peace out.
|
|
Ogay, I'll play this game.
"I think a ninja should be able to harness chi, using the same monk ability to harness chi, and with similar results, more in line with being a stealth fighter rather than a standup fighter such as the monk.
I agree that the rogue and ninja abilities are similar, but making a ninja just a subset rogue doesn't feel right.
I really don't think it will feel right from a marketing standpoint either. I have no actual scientific data to prove this, other than my own gut reaction, which has carried me a long way. I argued against numerous people back in the day that thought Pathfinder going OGL as opposed to 4e rules would be an epic blow to Paizo's bottom line. I was right then, with absolutely no proof but a gut instinct, and I'm right now. If you disagree with me now, and come back and say to me in a year that, yes, indeed, you were wrong, I'll think you have a lot of character. If you attempt to continue frittering my time away with meaningless semantics and logic games, I'll think you have ego issues.
A ninja being a subset rogue is only half the picture. I worry that doing so will neglect the subset of monk, which is an extremely important component to a viable believable ninja trope.
It boils down to the way I envision the typical rogue and the typical ninja. Saying this, I fully agree that there will also be "atypical" examples of both, but.....give me Falstaff for a rogue, or maybe Long John Silver, and give me a blank faced, dolleyed, biological robot for a ninja who has trained a childhood away and trained a lifetime away to become a consummate professional with no personality whatsoever.
Who can harness chi to do amazing things."
Also from the Ninja article about Kuji-kiri
"Kuji-kiri is an esoteric practice which, when performed with an array of hand "seals" (kuji-in), was meant to allow the ninja to enact superhuman feats."
So supernatural abilites (maybe with somatic components?) sounds cool.
|
|
Also from the Ninja article about Kuji-kiri
"Kuji-kiri is an esoteric practice which, when performed with an array of hand "seals" (kuji-in), was meant to allow the ninja to enact superhuman feats."
So supernatural abilites (maybe with somatic components?) sounds cool.
This is what I'm talking about ninjas using a chi mechanic.
Here lies the point of the topic. You can do a decent, and IMHO, even very good ninja wih rogue.
And without knowledge of what an Eidolon was or would be used for, a Summoner is a Conjuration specialist Wizard. In fact, the Eidolon would more fit a planar binding class than a conjuration (summoning) class so there is no reason AT ALL to presume a Summoner would have an Eidolon.
Heathansson, glad to see you're not still in self-imposed exile in just the PbP forums.
I liked the side-treks too and was sorry to see them go.
I'm ambivalent on the ninja question. I feel I could fake it well enough with standard classes, but I won't complain and might be interested if Paizo published one.
This is what I'm talking about ninjas using a chi mechanic.Also from the Ninja article about Kuji-kiri
"Kuji-kiri is an esoteric practice which, when performed with an array of hand "seals" (kuji-in), was meant to allow the ninja to enact superhuman feats."
So supernatural abilites (maybe with somatic components?) sounds cool.
Would be better to use its own mechanic instead of copying the monk's, lest people just say it should simply be a monk archetype. I was thinking something similar to Witch Hexes/Rogue Talents where its a Supernatural ability cast as an X action that does a cool power. Each power based on the nine cuts (as followed)
* Rin - Power
* Pyo - Energy
* To - Harmony
* Sha - Healing
* Kai - Intuition
* Jin - Awareness
* Retsu - Dimension
* Zai - Creation
* Zen - Absolute
But I agree, the ninja needs chi or something to make it different and interesting.
|
|
I realize I'm using the strawman, obviously. But given that my opposition is pulling out ninja abilities that I have never EVER seen associated with ninjas, I feel it's a rather appropriate response.
I also just realized, there's no class for a guy who can regenerate any damage almost instantly, has enhanced senses, unbreakable bones, and can grow claws from his hands.
Or one for a guy who shoots kinetic ruby beams out of his eyes.
Or one for a girl who can walk through walls. Although I'd probably multi-class her into the ninja class as well.
Maybe they can cover these in the tenth book of the classes collection. Big Book of Mostly Redundant Character Classes: Volume -Men.
And without knowledge of what an Eidolon was or would be used for, a Summoner is a Conjuration specialist Wizard. In fact, the Eidolon would more fit a planar binding class than a conjuration (summoning) class so there is no reason AT ALL to presume a Summoner would have an Eidolon.
Here lies the point of the topic. You can do a decent, and IMHO, even very good ninja wih rogue.
I don't mean you are wrong, Cartigan. Actually, I don't even mean you are right: it's a Schroedinger's Ninja. We cannot say the ninja class is worthy to be a whole class by his own until we see the actual class (or archetype, or prestige class) on the book :)
|
|
I realize I'm using the strawman, obviously. But given that my opposition is pulling out ninja abilities that I have never EVER seen associated with ninjas, I feel it's a rather appropriate response.
I also just realized, there's no class for a guy who can regenerate any damage almost instantly, has enhanced senses, unbreakable bones, and can grow claws from his hands.
Or one for a guy who shoots kinetic ruby beams out of his eyes.
Or one for a girl who can walk through walls. Although I'd probably multi-class her into the ninja class as well.
Maybe they can cover these in the tenth book of the classes collection. Big Book of Mostly Redundant Character Classes: Volume -Men.
Lots of people were absolutely giddy about the Psylocke class they did in 3.5.
|
|
I realize I'm using the strawman, obviously. But given that my opposition is pulling out ninja abilities that I have never EVER seen associated with ninjas, I feel it's a rather appropriate response.
I also just realized, there's no class for a guy who can regenerate any damage almost instantly, has enhanced senses, unbreakable bones, and can grow claws from his hands.
Or one for a guy who shoots kinetic ruby beams out of his eyes.
Or one for a girl who can walk through walls. Although I'd probably multi-class her into the ninja class as well.
Maybe they can cover these in the tenth book of the classes collection. Big Book of Mostly Redundant Character Classes: Volume -Men.
Who is calling for what you are describing? I showed on the other thread how you can have all of the things mentioned in a balanced class with a Ranger/Paladin spell progression.
It isn't what you can do, it is when you can do it.
I realize I'm using the strawman, obviously. But given that my opposition is pulling out ninja abilities that I have never EVER seen associated with ninjas, I feel it's a rather appropriate response.
Well here are where I got my information for ninja abilities and I will provide examples (from wikipedia to video games to movies).
- Splitting into two (Was in the wikipedia article)
- Flight (Was in the wikipedia article)
- Invisibility (Was in the wikipedia article and a standard trope in ninja lore)
- Shapeshifting (Again, was in the wikipedia article)
- Summoning Animals (Also was in the wikipedia article)
- Walking on Water (This is taken from... the wikipedia article AND was tested on Mythbusters)
- Having some control over the five elements (Let's see... the wikipedia article)
- Teleportation and switching places with someone. (Now this is something more in video games some examples include:
* Raven and Taki from Tekken 5 and Soul Calibur respectively
* Shen, a character from League of Legends that can teleport to an ally
* Kasumi, a shinobi from the Dead or Alive series
* The Shinobi series of video games which have several instances of teleportation
* Ninja Gaiden (the newer series)
* Any anime featuring a ninja. Like seriously.
- Kuji-kiri
As you can see, just by reading the article on wikipedia, it makes mention of all of these examples. I guess reading does pay off in the end.
|
|
Lots of people were absolutely giddy about the Psylocke class they did in 3.5.
I dunno, I think they screwed up the Psylocke class. Here's how I would have done it:
Levels 1-5: British Supermodel and Telepath
Levels 6-10: You become Asian and are forced to multiclass into ninja for these levels. Your telepathy is actually weakened, but you gain the powers of a soulknife.
Levels 11-15: Your telepathy goes away completely, but you gain telekinesis. A telekinetic katana replaces your soulknife powers.
Levels 16-20: Your telepathy returns. You gain immunity to psionic manipulations. You also are immune to physical or mental alterations from wish-type effects.
Special notes: At some point, you must die and be resurrected by your insane brother, who can use Wish at will.
This thread has gotten very silly.
|
|
It's a very hard class to take, because you have to be British supermodel with telepathy and an insane brother who can use wish at will at first level. Not a lot of DMs are willing to roll with that.
My favorite munchkin class is the Kitty Pryde class. She's a little weaker early on, but when you hit the Shadowcat levels, you leapfrog ahead of most of the rest of the party.
Level 1: Ariel - You can walk through walls.
Level 2: Sprite - You can walk through walls, and you're now a member of the X-Men. And your code-name improves.
Level 10: Shadowcat - You can walk through walls, use those abilities to do a buttload of other cool things, and instantaneously gain the abilities of a 15th level ninja due to demon possession. Your code-name once again improves.
Level 15: Kitty Pryde - You're so damn cool at this point you don't even bother with a code-name anymore.
Level 20: You can phase a giant bullet through the Earth.
Unfortunately, you also get hit with the DM fiat that after you are specifically returned to the campaign, the put you in a box and forget about you. Dunno why the DM brought you back solely to ignore you, since you were being ignored perfectly well before, but whatever.
Yay!
The Uncanny Straw Men attack after I legitemately answered "THE" Ultimate Question.
Guess I lose teh interwebz this time.
Yay!
The Uncanny Straw Men attack after I legitemately answered "THE" Ultimate Question.
Guess I lose teh interwebz this time.
Well, it's people who disagree. On the internet. What did you really expect?
Well, it's people who disagree. On the internet. What did you really expect?Yay!
The Uncanny Straw Men attack after I legitemately answered "THE" Ultimate Question.
Guess I lose teh interwebz this time.
I'll be camelhumped if I know. I'm really just basking in the glory.
Ninjas for the most part are Rogue base class and maybe some Monk class. Monk makes sense as many ninja are lawful following strict codes and are masters of hand to hand combat and are big on the meditation. Just add the feat throw anything...
Those that are more combat orientated have some Fighter for the many and varied weapons they use and the emense skill in wich they use them.
Some have Ranger for the bush survival and cammoflage.
For the Wu-Jen you would use the Witch or the Alchemist from the Players Handbook 2. As the Wu-Jen are crazy hermit Witches or Wizards anyway. And pare up with Rogue.
For the Sohei or warrior priests depending on the temple you could go Cleric/Rogue or For the more Lawful Good Shinto Temple - Paladin/Rogue; stealthily moving to boldly intercept enemies of the temple like Demons and Ogre Mages :)
For the assasinating Ninja go for the Rogue and take levels in Assassin :) Or Monk/Assassin or Monk/Rogue/Assassin :)
Strangly enough it was only western movies that made ninjas strictly assassins and not known for unarmend combat. Ninjas have rigourous training in Unarmed Combat. Koga Ryu Ninjitsu and Iga Ryu Ninjitsu are amazingly tough in hand to hand combat using all parts of the body to kill. And both clans from the Iga mountains and the Koga mountains trained in an amazing array of weaponry. And once you got past bacic levels of learning you were taught meditation and hand signs that are very similar to the Yoga Yudras and breathing meditations that are very similar to Kripalu Yoga. You are taught how to Climb, how to Walk through Grass so you look like an animal if someone looks out and sees you moving in the grass at night. How to move along the side of a wall in the shadows and how to kick or punch along the side of the wall so you do it while still in that shadow and dont move away from the wall. How to jump fences or crawl under them and crawl along under barbed wire or other obstacles to avoide gunfire. How to cammoflage yourself in various terrain.
Figher/Rogues, Ranger/Rogues and Monk/Rogues ALL make great Ninja. and not all of us are asasins or evil, some are clan warriors, mystics, monks etc.