When you sneak attack a human with inflict light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack an undead with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack a human with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) No. Sneak Attack can only be used with an attack that deals damage. Casting a CLW on a human is not an attack and it deals no damage.
When you sneak attack a human with inflict light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack an undead with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack a human with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
I totally see it. The ninja cleric!
"Tell my wife (cough) that I (painful gasp) love h- . . . no . . . wait . . . I, um, think I'm okay, actually."
"Who was that masked man?"
|
When you sneak attack a human with inflict light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack an undead with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack a human with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
I totally see it. The ninja cleric!
"Tell my wife (cough) that I (painful gasp) love h- . . . no . . . wait . . . I, um, think I'm okay, actually."
"Who was that masked man?"
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Speaking of.When you sneak attack a human with inflict light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack an undead with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
When you sneak attack a human with cure light wounds, it's 1d8+X + Yd6, right?
I totally see it. The ninja cleric!
"Tell my wife (cough) that I (painful gasp) love h- . . . no . . . wait . . . I, um, think I'm okay, actually."
"Who was that masked man?"
So . . . um . . . Father McNinja, then? Brother McNinja? Reverend McNinja?
Wait, I've got it. Archbishop McNinja. "Your Excellency, I didn't see you there."
"That is because of my excellency."
3) No. Sneak Attack can only be used with an attack that deals damage.
I don't think that's true. You can sneak attack with enervation, can't you?
Casting a CLW on a human is not an attack and it deals no damage.
It might. Death Domain: Death's Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy.
Sneak attack:
Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he
is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she
can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
It is a precision strike for extra damage. You just choose the right part of the body to maximize destruction. It is strike a vital spot for extra damage not strike a vital spot for extra something.
If you are saying this as a joke then it is really funny as the above ninja :-).
Think of it differently the healer who is also an assassin is ready to touch with his healing hand, but wow he manages to exactly touch the right spot of your wound in order to maximize his spell :-P. Honestly it would be a nice idea for a prestige class that could do this (rogue/priest). I do not know how balanced it would be but as a flavor it would be very funny to play such a character. Oh by the way he should heal you when you haven't notice him to receive the extra healing. He would attack his mates while they were sleeping to heal them. Professor chaos (south park)
1: By definition a sneak attack must do damage to have bonus damage dice.
2: More importantly your example is flawed. You present harming\healing as mirror situations but they are not. Just because you can deal in negative or positive energy doesn't mean the methods are equal and opposite.
Harming is actively defended against. Greater vulnerabilities are given more protection. If I take a pencil and push it into your knee (a normal attack) I do so much damage. If I manage to push it into your eye socket (a sneak attack) I do precision damage with substantially the same effort. Overcoming your defenses or knowing your weaknesses allows more efficient harming. The game allows this increased damage without tracking the details.
Healing is more abstract and typically not opposed. Since the game mostly doesn't detail the nature of hp loss there is no way to target the worst areas. Healing assumes no opposition and already represents best efforts - the most healing you can do at your power level. My cleric can heal 1d8+1 hp by touching you anywhere on your body. She cannot be clever and focus her healing on your optic nerve to critically heal your sneak attacked eye. To suggest that a negative sneak attack would get bonus healing power is to assume that there is a precise target denied other healers or tracked by the game.
There are more effective types of healing eg. higher level spells, or targeted healing against attribute damage. Since they assume patient cooperation they are always healing in their best way at the most applicable place. Healing power is a function of level and ability not of random attack.
The negative\positive mirror is seductive but it is inaccurate.
i would allow the sneak attack healing because it makes sense. it's not so much healing an unaware target as much as it's more like acupuncture. in acupuncture, the right precise application of force to certain nerves can speed up one's recovery both mental and physical. i wouldn't make it require needles, but some kind of precision instrument would be required. and the effect would require a heal check rolled against the recipient's CMD. to represent how some patients like to squirm. hitting the CMD with the heal check adds the sneak attack dice to the healing as a choice nerve was tapped just right.
i would allow the sneak attack healing because it makes sense. it's not so much healing an unaware target as much as it's more like acupuncture. in acupuncture, the right precise application of force to certain nerves can speed up one's recovery both mental and physical. i wouldn't make it require needles, but some kind of precision instrument would be required. and the effect would require a heal check rolled against the recipient's CMD. to represent how some patients like to squirm. hitting the CMD with the heal check adds the sneak attack dice to the healing as a choice nerve was tapped just right.
If rogues can heal with acupuncture they dont need the spells anyway, and I am sure you can lower your CMD to base 10 willing if you want to, especially out of combat. Agreeing not to resist eliminates your strength and dex bonuses. Take off the ring of protection, and there is not much left, and since most clerics have the heal skill they should be better at critical or sneak attack healing than a rogue. A level one character can beat a CMD of 10, as long as the person agrees to be coup de graced which is an automatic hit, and auto sneak attack.
|
coup de graced
Oh man, Coup De Grace healing?
"Hey, lay down and close your eyes."
"Are you sure you know what you're doing?"
"Yes yes! Just calm down and be helpless, I need to Coup De Grace you!"
"WHAT?!?!"
EDIT: On further consideration, this doesn't seem too crazy. What do you do when you're having surgery performed by a doctor? You're out cold on an operating table, and quite helpless.
Sneak damage does damage, no matter what the spell you use it with is, so you'll do 1d8+X(heal from spell)-Yd6(damage from SA)....hardly optimal ^_^
The proposal is that there is no damage, and that the would be damage is actually positive healing.
In other words if I sneak attack heal you with a scythe you got Xd6+ 8d4 healing + my strength modifier x 6.
coup de gracedOh man, Coup De Grace healing?
"Hey, lay down and close your eyes."
"Are you sure you know what you're doing?"
"Yes yes! Just calm down and be helpless, I need to Coup De Grace you!"
"WHAT?!?!"EDIT: On further consideration, this doesn't seem too crazy. What do you do when you're having surgery performed by a doctor? You're out cold on an operating table, and quite helpless.
You are not being attacked, that is for sure. :)
And then we roll for sneak feeding. I give you a leg of chicken but I do it so well you can eat for a week off it, because I sneak fed you.
And the rope gets played out for climbing as part of a sneak attack. Here's 50 + 5d6 of rope. Good thing I sneak attacked it or we'd never have enough.
I'm going to start counting the treasure with a sneak attack roll. How much gold is 100gp + 5d6 sneak attack? Make sure the rogue counts your money.
:)
i would allow the sneak attack healing because it makes sense. it's not so much healing an unaware target as much as it's more like acupuncture. in acupuncture, the right precise application of force to certain nerves can speed up one's recovery both mental and physical. i wouldn't make it require needles, but some kind of precision instrument would be required. and the effect would require a heal check rolled against the recipient's CMD. to represent how some patients like to squirm. hitting the CMD with the heal check adds the sneak attack dice to the healing as a choice nerve was tapped just right.If rogues can heal with acupuncture they dont need the spells anyway, and I am sure you can lower your CMD to base 10 willing if you want to, especially out of combat. Agreeing not to resist eliminates your strength and dex bonuses. Take off the ring of protection, and there is not much left, and since most clerics have the heal skill they should be better at critical or sneak attack healing than a rogue. A level one character can beat a CMD of 10, as long as the person agrees to be coup de graced which is an automatic hit, and auto sneak attack.
what's wrong with allowing rogues to heal with acupuncture? mundane healing is worthless already. this reduces the need for a cleric outside of battle. i think i will make this ability a rogue talent if i must. but the original idea was designed for multiclass rogue/clerics.
If my players wanted to make a party of gag characters, I would totally allow this... with one stipulation: the character could never attack another creature except for undead or evil outsiders.
And then we roll for sneak feeding. I give you a leg of chicken but I do it so well you can eat for a week off it, because I sneak fed you.
You can attack with a chicken leg, but it deals normal damage for a tiny improvised weapon and the additional damage dice are of the same type, not nourishment.
You can attack with a healing spell, dealing positive energy damage that happens to heal living creatures. You can sneak attack with weaponlike spells, and the additional dice is again of the same type.I don't see the problem in allowing that.
The question is, can one voluntarily deny himself his dexterity bonus ?
The question is, can one voluntarily deny himself his dexterity bonus ?
Wear a blindfold.
what's wrong with allowing rogues to heal with acupuncture? mundane healing is worthless already. this reduces the need for a cleric outside of battle. i think i will make this ability a rogue talent if i must. but the original idea was designed for multiclass rogue/clerics.I rotfled thinking to a cleric barely keeping alive the tank...until his friend rogue sneak cure with a CLW wand for 1d8+5+10d6 XD
10d6 isn't a lot at that level (only 35). the cleric is likely healing everyone for 200 with a mass heal or few or 1 person for 150 with plenty of heals. your average wand of cure light wounds is also only caster level 1st (more bang for your buck), which means only 1d8+1. 40.5 average healing does not beat a fairly reliable 150 that any cleric will likely has access to. channel energy can heal 35 to several targets unlike the acupuncturist that only heals 40.5 to 1 recipient with a wand. rogues will be greatly appreciated out of battle though.
Why is this in the rules section?
You're obviously suggesting something that is, at best, a houserule... if a possibly humorous one.
But running with your idea, i'd prefer to go with fighter and pick up Weapon Spec/Greater Weapon Spec (needle) for this, then stack it with his class feature Weapon Training... much more reliable healing. he spits on your unreliable and highly situational stealth healing.
If you attack you do damage or not. Your targeting, mindset, and game framework is to do damage.
I think that according to the rules if you attack a human with positive energy you simply waste your attack. You can't actually damage the target so there are no damage dice and hence no sneak attack dice. I'm not sure you should even get any healing for an attack.
If you were to do damage it would be the effects of more positive energy to cause harm to vulnerable spots. It would not represent a positive energy increase. That would be like creating more rope, food or gold.
There is simply no advantage in precision healing. If there were the Clerics would have had the ability long ago.
S
Ok, so does anyone here remember the magic item introduced in one of the 3.0 soft cover splat books...the Healing Arrow?
Yes, an archer could use one of these things to heal someone as a, IIRC, standard cure light wounds.
"Stand still and let me shoot you, man, you need healed!"
Ok, so does anyone here remember the magic item introduced in one of the 3.0 soft cover splat books...the Healing Arrow?
You can kind of do that now. Just get a Bard/Arcane Archer armed with a Merciful / Brilliant Energy bow. Remember: Bard heals are Arcane spells. ;)
The proposal is that there is no damage, and that the would be damage is actually positive healing.
In other words if I sneak attack heal you with a scythe you got Xd6+ 8d4 healing + my strength modifier x 6.If by proposal you mean House Rule, this is the wrong section for this post. By no way the rules can be interpreted in this way
The SA is always damage, no way to read it differently..if you use it with an heal, you have to subtract it's value, not to add itSneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he
is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she
can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
Someone asked for the real rules, and then the conversation went to what someone would allow, which would be houserule to the topic has gone off the rails. I was explaining that in my other post. I think the intent is known, but for the sake of "cool" people were saying they might go with it. I am against the idea under any circumstances.