OK this is a thread for consolidation of ideas for the current 3/4 bab 6 level spells Magus being presented by Paizo. Not for criticism, or rants about how it doesn't work. It is a play test after all, getting out the bugs and making it a fun balanced class to play is what this thread is for.
So from playtest info i have seen the magus is can be lackluster at first level.all other classes have multiple abilities at level 1, except fighter.
-A first level ability usable 3+int times per day to add bonus damage to, probably elemental, to maguses weapon.
-start magus arcana at first level or arcane weapon
-push spell strike to level 2
-push combat spell to level 4 possibly with less penalties or a seperate ability with bonus to concentration.
Keep posting all your ideas
Some of the thoughts from my thread:
- Spellstrike and standard action attacks can be combined - including Vital Strike or lunge. In other words, if you make a standard attack, you do both damage and get the spell off. This may in fact be how Spellstrike already works! But it's a bit awkwardly worded, if that's true.
- Put Spell Combat at a later level where it doesn't have the major penalties, axe the penalties entirely - do SOMETHING here. Spell Combat needs a lot of work.
-Having Counterstrike earlier would make it a much more useful ability. Games going to 16 is rare as is, and this hardly gives you incentive
- Would it be so much to have Weaponbond at an earlier level where it might actually be meaningful?
- True Magus is pathetic. Give a proper capstone.
- Give the Arcanas that are once per day the following tagline: "At level x/y/z the Magus can use this 2/3/etc times per day instead." Remove or at least shift back the level limits for some of them. Consider giving double the bonus for the ones that spend a spell slot - or not making them cost a spell slot at all.
-Add spell storing to arcane weapon list of possibilities or spell storing like ability
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Well since the magus combines elements from both the fighter and a wizard have the class keep fighter training but move it to an earlier lvl and also at 1st lvl allow the Magus to choose a spell school to get abilities from (Much in the same manner that an Inquisitor chooses a domain and gets the abilities but not the extra spells)
-Add spell storing to arcane weapon list of possibilities or spell storing like ability
+1 Maybe add some greater Spell storing till level 6/7.
I would like to see Fighter Trainer moved to an odd level, but no sooner then 9th level, sense giving this ability at even levels where you gain no new feats essentially makes level 10 a dead level as it stands right now.
Weapon Call I don't see being overly powerful so I would see no problems moving this ability to 10th level.
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I won't repeat myself entirely but basically:
Remove the one hand restriction from Spell Combat and find another mechanical means to penalize the filled secondary hand (higher concentration checks or whatever)thus allowing more mechanical and thematic diversity.
I would like to see Fighter Trainer moved to an odd level, but no sooner then 9th level, sense giving this ability at even levels where you gain no new feats essentially makes level 10 a dead level as it stands right now.
Weapon Call I don't see being overly powerful so I would see no problems moving this ability to 10th level.
Its not just a bit like the Swordmage ability... but never mind that I like it ^^, but it really should scale.
Calling your weapon from some feet away should be easily possible before calling it from a long way away.
-Improved combat spell could allow 1 attack and 1 spell as a standard action allowing movement, possible spring attack.
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Thoughts:
The biggest problems that I have seen people posting are that the Magus doesn't benefit that much from Spellstrike, which seems like it should be a fundamental class ability, and that it's abilities are either not unique enough or not good enough to be useful.
A couple of suggestions:
1) I would like to see a low-level Magus ability, usable 3+Int. Modifier/day that allows the Magus to convert a melee attack into a melee touch attack. This would allow the Magus to get in some consistent damage while simultaneously giving the Magus higher accuracy, which is something even medium BAB classes have problems with. Not only would this ability be useful in not wasting Spellstrike spells, but it would also add a bit of damage by greatly increasing the accuracy of the few iterative attacks a Magus gets, thereby increasing the overall damage potential of the melee side of the class.
2) Change the magical weapon abilities the Magus can use into something more unique. Instead of Shock, how about Chain Shock, which deals 1d4 damage to the target and 1d4 damage to another enemy within, say 10 feet? Or how about something like Hexed, which gives an enemy hit by the attack a -2 to AC and Saving Throws? Those seem like a bit much, but I think it would go a long way to making the Magus feel more unique.
3) If you want to add a flat 1d6 elemental damage bonus, make it a Magus Arcana that can be taken every 6 levels (1,6,12,18), and can be used for a number of rounds per day equal to 1/2 Magus Level + Intelligence Modifier. That way, you're sacrificing some other utility abilities for more combat oriented abilities that provide a significant boost to damage.
4) Metamagic Arcana abilities should be usable either 3/day, or Int. Modifier/day. And, while we're at it, we just need more Arcana abilities.
5) By 7th or 8th level, a Magus should be able to use spellstrike with the spell and weapon as a Standard Action. It may seem overpowered, but remember that we gave other melee classes Vital Strike to help them pump out some extra damage. Given the limited nature of spells in terms of longevity, I don't feel that this is too much to ask. Remember, you can make this its own Standard Action ability, so we don't have to worry about stacking with Spring Attack, Vital Strike, etc.
6) Combat Casting as a bonus feat at level 1. It's not overpowered, and it seems to fit mechanically as well as thematically.
7) As you are well aware, the full Magus spell list has not been released. As such, there are many spells on the list that are missing. However, there are many spells, particularly touch spells, that are not on the current list that should be:
Touch of Fatigue
Chill Touch
etc.
It seems odd that the Magus should be lacking spells around which one of it's core features is based on.
8) My final point. The Magus looks like a really fun class, and I can tell a lot of work is being put into it. I would like to point out, though, that it seems people are overestimating the abilities of a character that can do well in melee and cast spells. In the example of the Eldritch Knight, we have a character that can EITHER do melee or be a spellcaster, but usually not both unless you are a special case. The Magus seems to be a character that wishes to fuse the two styles, and while the abilities seem to reflect this, they may be taking it too far. I recommend pumping up the Magus for the next part of the Playtest to a point that you think it is TOO powerful, and THEN removing bits and pieces as you see fit, depending on your own judgment AND player feedback.
That is all.
After hours of thought, I think I'm OK with the Spellstrike ability as written, because as soon as the next level is hit the primary problem (casting and striking in the same round) is solved by Spell Combat.
However I think the penalty to attack on Spell Combat is to steep for a low level 3/4 BA character.
I would rather see the brunt of the penalty for Spell Combat fall on the concentration check.
Why does the Magus need to be able to melee and cast spells at the same time? Instead, IMO the Magus should be able to reliably, safely cast spells while within melee range - Defensive Casting should be a foregone conclusion for them (Combat Casting as an early bonus feat is part of the solution, but it won't break the character to make it automatic success).
Cast spells OR hit things with stick - at least through the lower levels - is fine, so long as when they do cast spells they don't fizzle or invite pointy retaliation - that's why primary casters stay out of melee, after all!
They should have access to all the melee fighting styles (1H, 2H, TWF, S&B) as viable options (so, Somatic component with weapon, and perhaps Eschew Materials - or at least that's an obvious favorite choice for the class).
Being able to convert weapon damage into energy damage (even variable energy damage) would be very useful/colorful for the Magus. He could thus bypass Damage Reduction (and be facing Energy Resistance/Spell Resistance instead). He won't output damage like a Fighter, but he'll always have a steady damage output.
I had a thought of making spell combat into an ability like flurry of blows. BAB equal to level while full attacking with a -2 and can cast the standard action spell with a concentration check.