Well, I ran a playtest of the Magus tonight, level 10 Human.
My 2 Cents:
While I think that the Spell Combat ability is useless/weak/broken, the rest of the class works pretty well.
The build was pretty simple: First I gave him a +2 whip, and then the Combat Expertise and Improved Trip feats. I also gave him the Maneuver Mastery arcana for Trip. Then I gave him Spell Focus (Necromancy) and Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy). I'm sure you see where this is heading. :)
To offset the armour failure penalty for the spells not on the Magus list, I gave him the Arcane Armour Training feat and Mithril breastplate. This brought his arcane failure down to 5%.
Finally, I gave the whip fire and frost enhancements with the Arcane Weapon ability. This offset the fact that the whip does no damage when tripping.
The idea of this build was to have a medium range character that could trip opponents prone to allow the heavier melee types a chance to buff, flank, etc before wading in. He could also deliver Necromantic touch spells through the whip from 15 ft away.
As a tripper, the class worked really well. As a debilitating caster, he did ... okay.
There are several holes in this build which will have to be addressed, but as a first run, it is the best gish class I've come across yet. I like having a choice of specialization with the arcana, and not being limited spell-wise, so long as you take the spell failure along with it (which wasn't difficult for me to marginalize).
With spells like Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafen, and Vampiric Touch it made the Magus an interesting tactical player when combined with tripping and the added DC from Spell Focus.
Being able to buff with True Strike and then deliver a trip attack along with a debilitating spell made for a fun time.
ummm i hope I'm reading you right but if your trying to use non magus spells with spellstrike or spell combat it won't work
both abilities say you have to use spells from the Magus spell list
I'm not seeing the function of the necromancy focus feats as a result
ummm i hope I'm reading you right but if your trying to use non magus spells with spellstrike or spell combat it won't work
both abilities say you have to use spells from the Magus spell list
I'm not seeing the function of the necromancy focus feats as a result
Some people think that Broad Training gives you another class's spell list. I think that's what the problem is here.
Broad Study (Ex): A magus with this magus arcana must
select one other class that grants the ability to cast spells.
The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat
abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list
of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells
from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal
chances of arcane spell failure. The magus must be at least
6th level before selecting this arcana.
If Broad Study does not give you access to another class' spell list, then what does it do?
My interpretation: You can use the spells from another class' list, but you have to apply spell failure to those spells.
Any illumination would be appreciated!
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Broad Study (Ex): A magus with this magus arcana must
select one other class that grants the ability to cast spells.
The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat
abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list
of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells
from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal
chances of arcane spell failure. The magus must be at least
6th level before selecting this arcana.If Broad Study does not give you access to another class' spell list, then what does it do?
My interpretation: You can use the spells from another class' list, but you have to apply spell failure to those spells.
Any illumination would be appreciated!
It's for MCed magus. Otherwise WAY overpowered.
Broad Study (Ex): A magus with this magus arcana must
select one other class that grants the ability to cast spells.
The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat
abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list
of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells
from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal
chances of arcane spell failure. The magus must be at least
6th level before selecting this arcana.If Broad Study does not give you access to another class' spell list, then what does it do?
My interpretation: You can use the spells from another class' list, but you have to apply spell failure to those spells.
Any illumination would be appreciated!
It lets you use Spellstrike and Spell Combat when casting spells from another class's spell list, whereas normally they can only be used for Magus spells. That much it says. But it doesn't actually give you those spells. The point of this ability is for Magus6/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge10 to use this combo to Spellstrike Harm, Spell Combat Heal, or any use of clerical magic with Magus powers.
It lets you use Spellstrike and Spell Combat when casting spells from another class's spell list, whereas normally they can only be used for Magus spells. That much it says. But it doesn't actually give you those spells. The point of this ability is for Magus6/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge10 to use this combo to Spellstrike Harm, Spell Combat Heal, or any use of clerical magic with Magus powers.Broad Study (Ex): A magus with this magus arcana must
select one other class that grants the ability to cast spells.
The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat
abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list
of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells
from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal
chances of arcane spell failure. The magus must be at least
6th level before selecting this arcana.If Broad Study does not give you access to another class' spell list, then what does it do?
My interpretation: You can use the spells from another class' list, but you have to apply spell failure to those spells.
Any illumination would be appreciated!
So basically what your saying is my Heavens Oracle with 2 levels of Magus
can color spray and treats everything as thier HD - my CHA mod
which will apply blindness and stunned and (dropped thier weapon so are now considered unarmed) to most creatures negating my -4 penalty and then some to hit so I can whack them in the same round which a high success rate.
and here I thought the purpose of the wording was to discourage a 2 level dip in magus
It lets you use Spellstrike and Spell Combat when casting spells from another class's spell list, whereas normally they can only be used for Magus spells. That much it says. But it doesn't actually give you those spells. The point of this ability is for Magus6/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge10 to use this combo to Spellstrike Harm, Spell Combat Heal, or any use of clerical magic with Magus powers.Broad Study (Ex): A magus with this magus arcana must
select one other class that grants the ability to cast spells.
The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat
abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list
of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells
from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal
chances of arcane spell failure. The magus must be at least
6th level before selecting this arcana.If Broad Study does not give you access to another class' spell list, then what does it do?
My interpretation: You can use the spells from another class' list, but you have to apply spell failure to those spells.
Any illumination would be appreciated!
So basically what your saying is my Heavens Oracle with 2 levels of Magus
can color spray and treats everything as thier HD - my CHA mod
which will apply blindness and stunned and (dropped thier weapon so are now considered unarmed) to most creatures negating my -4 penalty and then some to hit so I can whack them in the same round which a high success rate.and here I thought the purpose of the wording was to discourage a 2 level dip in magus
You need 6 levels in Magus to get that Arcana, but otherwise yes.
It's for MCed magus. Otherwise WAY overpowered.
MCed? Define, pls.
So -- my interpretation is correct, no?
It's for MCed magus. Otherwise WAY overpowered.MCed? Define, pls.
He is trying to abbreviate MultiClass, but unlike most abbreviations it isn't easy to decipher.
So -- my interpretation is correct, no?No, no, for the last time no. Your interpretation is flatly wrong.
Thanks for your concise and rude reply. Much appreciated!
A little explanation up front would have prevented my asking in the first instance. Sorry it upset you so.
I missed this on my first reading too, but I think Rogue Eidolon is correct. Broad Study doesn't actually grant you any spells, but if you already have access to another class' spells, basically by having levels in that other class, then you can use those spells with Spellstrike and Spell Combat.
Thanks, Ry. Still, a minor price to pay (dipping into Wizard) for being able to use it in this fashion!
If I understand what your trying with the dip it still dosent work like that..say you take the dip at level 7. You will be a 6th level magus and a 1st level wizard. You will still have two spell lists, but you couldnt use your magus spells per day to memorize spells not on the magus spell list.
Thank you for your reply; I'm totally confused now. Is this written anywhere in plain English?!
Thank you for your reply; I'm totally confused now. Is this written anywhere in plain English?!
It allows you to use your Magus class abilities with the spells of another class that you take levels in.
If you were a Magus 7 / Wizard 3, you could use the Magus combat abilities with the spells you have memorized as a Wizard as well as the Magus spells you have memorized.
If I understand what your trying with the dip it still dosent work like that..say you take the dip at level 7. You will be a 6th level magus and a 1st level wizard. You will still have two spell lists, but you couldnt use your magus spells per day to memorize spells not on the magus spell list.Thank you for your reply; I'm totally confused now. Is this written anywhere in plain English?!
The arcana just allows you to use the spell strike and spell combat with spells from other lists. It doesn't give you any spells or caster levels or whatever. You just pick another spell list that you can use and say "ok, I can now use spellstrike and spellcombat on these"
If I understand what your trying with the dip it still dosent work like that..say you take the dip at level 7. You will be a 6th level magus and a 1st level wizard. You will still have two spell lists, but you couldnt use your magus spells per day to memorize spells not on the magus spell list.Thank you for your reply; I'm totally confused now. Is this written anywhere in plain English?!
Broad Study (Ex): A magus with this magus arcana must
select one other class that grants the ability to cast spells.
The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat
abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list
of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells
from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal
chances of arcane spell failure. The magus must be at least
6th level before selecting this arcana.
"A magus with this magus arcana must
select one other class that grants the ability to cast spells."So far so good. Let's me pick some other class that grants the ability to cast spells--I'll pick Wizard.
"The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat
abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list
of that class."
When I cast my Wizard spells (which I cast with my Wizard spell slots--how could I do otherwise, right?), I can now use Spellstrike and Spell Combat. That's important because previously "Spellstrike (Su): Whenever a magus casts a spell with a
range of touch from the magus spell list, he can deliver the
spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee
attack." and "...As a fullround action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –4 penalty. He can also cast any spell with
a casting time of 1 standard action from the magus spell list."
"This does not allow him to cast arcane spells
from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal
chances of arcane spell failure."
OK, if I use a Mithral Fullplate, I'll still get Arcane Spell Failure. That's too bad.
"The magus must be at least 6th level before selecting this arcana."
Darn, can't take this one at level 3.
He's saying that you don't get to go out and grab Wizard spells and cast them as a Magus.
What it allows you to do is use your Wizard/1 spells as a Magus' spells...in other words, you could channel whatever spells you have memorized as a Wizard like they were magus spells, but you can't memorize Wizard spells and put them into your Magus slots.
hence, why dip, unless there's some level 1 wizard spells you really want.
==Aelryinth
Got it! Thank you guys VERY MUCH for the clarification! I have no idea how you figured that out as the wording is incredibly poor on that class feature!
I shall now rework this bad boy an replay it over the weekend.
Got it! Thank you guys VERY MUCH for the clarification! I have no idea how you figured that out as the wording is incredibly poor on that class feature!
I shall now rework this bad boy an replay it over the weekend.
You're welcome.
As for how I figured it out...
I speak Geek.
Well, with the spell list provided,the magus is pretty sucktastic. I would like to try him out as a tripping, whip-toting, ally buffing dude multiclassed with Cleric, though, which is the build I will be trying next.