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+1 @ Austin.
When I first DM'd I tried coming up with stuff on my own, and usually ended up with random-dungeon grindfests because I wasn't too quick about it yet (and it was college, busy busy busy). They were okay, but I got a lot better when I was able to get beyond the mundane parts (got good enough to do them quickly) and get to the story parts.
I'm definitely still in the learning curve, but at least I'm getting close to the far edge of the hard part.
One thing that is useful for creating your own adventures (when you feel up to it) is to keep a notepad on you (whether physical or digital, I know my phone has a good note program) and every time you come up with a good encounter/dungeon/etc idea scribble it down right away. Later, integrate these into whatever AP you're running at random points to see how the players react to them. If the players don't realize that something is amiss, then you're probably doing it right. Eventually you should be able to come up with ideas more quickly, but I don't think this is something anyone ever masters.
(One encounter I've been wanting to try for a while is a high level encounter with a party of mid-level bards of different varieties. They would all stack buffs on each-other, of course. Imagine walking into a room to a chorus of bad guys that are literally laughing at you in song as they stab you to death.)
Pro Tip: Roll d20s randomly and pretend to look stuff up and think. This works wonders to eliminate metagaming as players eventually figure out that either nothing is happening, or something they can't control anyway is happening, and either way it's their job to be "business as usual." Make sure to occasionally ask for a character sheet when doing this.
where dose a GM start?
At the beginning.
everything starts as an idea be it a giants salad bowl as an arena or a farmers daughter kidnapped by a local merchant.
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Hey all,
I was just wondering where dose a GM start? What i mean by that is, where dose one find the Modules, where dose one find the Adventure Paths, where should one start out at on the modules and the adventure paths. Are some easier then others? More first time gm friendly i guess i am asking.Is there a site or a thread that i missed that explains all of this?
My understanding is that a Modules are just a few levels of story. Like a short story i guess. Then the Adventure path is a novel. Where the character go to be higher level then the normal Modules.
I know It is a great idea to have all 3 book, Core rules, Games master, and the Bestiary, but what else would you recommend as a must have to start your own first time game up?
Any help on all of these questions would be great. Thanks
The Adventure Paths are here, the modules are here.
I find it's best to think of the modules as movies, and the Adventure Paths (AP) as series. For the all-time best way to get your feet wet, though, start with Crypt of the Everflame. Not only does it have a great way of introducing characters to each other (no more "you all meet in an inn"), but it also can be continued with Masks of the Living God, then City of Golden Death, making for a "mini" AP.
After that, either continue with the individual modules, or go with one of the APs with new characters (I'd recommend Rise of the Runelords).
As for sourcebooks, the Chronicles are mostly DM reference, and the Companions are more oriented towards the players. Really, though, Paizo does a great job of keeping everything you need in the modules and adventures themselves, or at the least telling you what books go well with each other.
Don't forget the Pathfinder Society scenarios as well. Aside from the peculiarities of Society play, they basically work like mini-modules, where you can finish them in one game session.
And ask around. These are great boards, with a great community eager to help.
Also, there is the GM guide.
Making your own world and story can be quite difficult, but the D&D legacy is that of an RPG that allows for that kind of creativity.
A module will help you learn what goes into a single adventure, and an AP will help you understand the scope of a whole campaign. Both are good to know. While they take a lot of guesswork out of running the game, there is still a LOT of work involved.
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LOts of good advice here already! My tips:
1) Don't bite off more than you can chew. Utilizing the premade Pathfinder Material is a great call.
2) An adventure path would be fun, but it will take 12-24 months to get through it. You may want to try some simple intro modules to get your feet wet. I really enjoyed running "Hallows Last Hope" as a 1st level adventure. We finished it in 6-7 hours and had a great time. It is followed up by Crown of the Kobold King and a whole host of others if you like the setting.
3) Be familiar with the general rules and make fair decisions for the players. You will learn as you go. Don't bog the game down with rules searching. Ask a fellow player to look it up for you or make a note of it, make a fair ruling at the table and look it up later.
4) Your job (IMO), is to be the storyteller and provide a fun time for the players. You set the stage, paint the picture, challenge the players, and in the end your forces lose and die, but the table should erupt in yells of victory and the tales will be told for years to come.
Enjoy and feel free to ask whatever questions you have on the boards. This is a very helpful community.
Dave
What level of expertise do you have? Your players? How familiar are you (them) with the rules? How often will will you be playing and for how long?
The more you can trust them with the rules, the less pressure will be on you. I pawn off as much of the rules, initiative, etc on players so my ADHD butt can keep focused on the storyline.
If you want to build your own adventure, all starts with an idea...
I have always my IPod or some paper with me, you will never know when you have one of these ideas and if you have one, write it down.
First the idea will be only a few notes like "old awaking god, new eternal winter"
These are only two words (a adventure I work on this days), but they it's a start.
Then beginn to develop it further, where is the start, whats the goal, what level, where take it part etc. All of these are only writings, no stats, no maps at all.
If you created the raw outline of the adventure, you should specify which locations you need for the adventure (e.g. Starting town, castle/prison/temple of the old god, old libary etc.) then connect them and think about how player will find the connections.
If you have all this, the outline and interior of your adventure, beginn to fill it with encounters, check the Bestiary which monster will fit (level and theme like) and place the treasures.
I can only recommend the Dungeonmaster Guide to every new Gamemaster, it's full of ideas, tips and little tricks for DMs.
Guess I should give my own two coppers, what me being your DM and all.
Premade anything is your friend, just because very few of us are actually as good of an adventure designer as the Paizo professionals, and it saves you hours of prep time. The lower level the better. In fact, for new players, I wouldn't run anything above level 1. Keep it simple.
Kingmaker would be kind of a nasty first attempt, I agree. Not only does it have the Kingdom Building subsystem, but it is also much more "sandbox" oriented than most APs.
In fact, for a first time trying I would actually say to steer clear of APs. Just pick a module or Dungeon Magazine adventure (you can borrow any of mine if you want). APs bring the baggage of "long term" with them, maybe not to a new player, but certainly to you as the DM. It's like movies, a trilogy like Lord of the Rings can be more satisfying and rewarding due to its length, but its also a bigger comittment and thus crash if things go sour.
If you want a good metaphor for what you should do, call it a "pilot episode". Not even a "full length movie" like a 2-4 part AP like Istvin, Seeds of Sehan, etc. Just a single, stand alone adventure, so both you and your players can get your feet wet without worrying about commitment. Most adventures/modules have a small section on how to "get the party involved", and most of those can be easily expanded into "get the party formed and involved".
People often enjoy something new a lot more when they aren't worrying about if they are going to enjoy it six months from now. And then, because they enjoy it more right then, they become more interested in still playing six months later. So a single adventure, with no "pressure" to do a second, third, fourth, etc, part will be better for a first time experience. If it goes well, find another adventure to run. They don't have to be an ongoing plot; not all adventurers are going to save the world/kingdom/princess/universe. Some are just going to do the random jobs/quests/dungeons that they find themselves presented with.
Your main goal as a DM is for your players to have fun, and for you to have fun accomplishing that goal. Different players have different sources of fun in the game, some are combat junkies, some are buildcrafters, some are deep roleplayers, etc, etc. New players will still have tendencies to certain things, if you can identify and play to those interests, you increase their fun.
Obviously, one of the biggest things you will be doing with new players is getting them into "role playing" in general. Make sure to limit them to core stuff, don't even suggest any splatbook material, even if they ask about it. "Can I play a goblin?" "The game has advanced rules for it, but I want to keep things simple for the first time; no goblins." If possible, find pictures for their PC choices, print them out at note-card size and put them in front of them. Lots of generic dwarf, elf, human, etc, pictures floating around the net. This could help them remember they are playing "someone/something else". Just as important, it can help the rest remember what everyone is playing. You can even have them write basic personality traits on the portait. A picture of a dwarf that says "Greedy. Loyal. Stubborn." can go a long way to helping them learn to get in character.
Minis, if you have access to them (yes, you could borrow some of mine) can also go a long way for creating immersion, as long as they are the right minis. Using minis that don't match is usually worse than just using "normal" things like bottlecaps or thread spools.
Eh, I'm starting to ramble. I guess the best help I can offer is "you can borrow my junk if you need to".
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If you want a fairly simple Adventure Path (comparatively to KM anyway). Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne are fairly simple.
If you run the Masks of the Living God series, I'd recommend you let the players know it's only three adventures long. There's nothing more encouraging than a sense of completion.
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I don't recommend starting with an Adventure Path, or even a series of connected modules. Start with a stand alone module.
A short story, as you put it, gives you a fresh start earlier on cuz you finish an adventure earlier on. As you learn from small mistakes and get a better feel for how you want to DM -- and how your Players want to play their PCs -- you're not stuck in chapter 3 of a 12 chapter Adventure Path.
With a stand alone module, when you finish you can pick up another and start with a clean slate -- your Players can start new PCs and you don't have to carry the baggage from the past.
After you've become comfortable in the DM's chair and your Players trust you as their DM, discuss what kind of long term campaign you'd all like and, based on the overall discussion, choose which Adventure Path sounds the best.
If you start with an Adventure Path and you do make mistakes, you're stuck with that adventure unless you just quit.
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Also, in choosing which stand alone adventure to start with, get a handful and read them all so that you can choose the one that seems best for you personally.
Of course, since the mods are $12 a shot, maybe start with 4 Pathfinder Society Scenarios for the cost of one module. Run a couple of those that you like -- you don't have to be part of the Society to do that!
After having read the Gamemastery Guide, I would strongly suggest that be your starting point for at least learning about what goes into a game. Honestly, it would have saved me several years of pain had such a resource been available when I started DMing. If someone in your group has it, ask to borrow it. If not, buy a copy yourself.
From there, I'll echo what others have said about premade adventures. Start with Crypt of the Everflame and try your hand at that. After its conclusion, you can either continue with that series or branch off and script your own scenario from there.
I say start at the beginning (i.e. first level core rules only). Your first DMing stint will taxing you enough without worrying about balancing high-level characters with a huge variety of abilities.
I would recommend you play a couple simple pre-built stand-alone adventures first. Before embarking on a huge campaign arc. If all goes well you can use these adventures as background for a complete campaign. If not you can learn from your mistakes.
If you are getting adventure paths you may want to consider the earlier ones were written with 3.5 rules so some conversion is necessary. You may want to get modules specifically written for Pathfinder to avoid the extra work.
And remember the only rule that counts is for you and your players to have fun.
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Laithoron, regarding what you said about Paizo's Gamemastery Guide, if you're into that, get the real DMG, the 3.0 by Monte Cook -- it is the BEST ever.
If you don't have it, get it. Again, not the 3.5 where all the useful, great advice given to DMs is ripped out by the morons that brought you 3.5, it's the 3.0 DMG that you want.
Also, the DMG 2 by Robin Laws is spectacular for more advice for DMs and DM groups and gaming styles. In fact, sections of the Gamemastery Guide seem very much respectfully plagiarized material from the DMG 2.
And one thing:
Don't try to be TO creative at your first adventures.
My first one was from "the Black Eye" (or "Realms of Arcania"), the one which was in the starter Box (called "the blck tower").
A very simple "There is a mysterious tower, explore it" adventure.
Even if your first adventures is full of cliché, do it, it's much more easier to fit into "cliché roles" (the round, bald barkeeper, the evil witch) then in exotic ones. And somehow these cliché characters are the best (ther is a reason why they are so common to become a cliché). ;)
Wow, thanks everyone for all of your support and answers. I will try my best to follow all of your advice and try to have a successful game. I will make a new post when i do bave my first game to let u all know how it went and hopefully some of u can help me again with what i did right and wrong.
Thanks again u all have been a wounderful help.
1. Dont Panic
2. Have fun.3. Repeat 1 & 2
Start small a brawl in the pub or an attack on a merchant caravan. Stick to the basics and build it from there.
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As many have said the Game Mastery Guide is one of the best resources out there at the moment for DMing the Pathfinder Game. It gives great pointers in various topics and includes the various problems that could and often do occur with problematic players that play this game. Even some of the problems that come up during play too. With new players in this game, they can start to develop gaming personalities that could later come to odds with how you want to run your game.
With a new group, IF they have never played before and with you having never DMed before then the Crypt of the Everflame is a great module for that and if you want to continue it with the other two modules that follow it are good too. But one thing you might want to keep in mind is you might want to let the players know immediately that this is a short run with those modules or module. That if you plan on running one of the adventure paths afterwords then letting them know that they can't run those characters in the path because they have to start from the beginning. That way they are not disappointed or let down on just getting in to their characters and having to start over again.
Laithoron, regarding what you said about Paizo's Gamemastery Guide, if you're into that, get the real DMG, the 3.0 by Monte Cook -- it is the BEST ever.
That's great if it had come out in 1992... I don't particularly need a resource teaching me how to DM now, but the GMG is useful even to experience DMs as a toolkit in addition to all the good advice in there for DMs/GMs who are just starting out.
FWIW, I do have both the books you mentioned. However, I can't say that either of them struck me in the same way as Paizo's GMG. Still, maybe they will be of some use to the OP if he can track them down.
Something else to consider: Many industries have what are termed 'best practices'. If there is a single best way to do something, then it would make sense for multiple different parties to eventually arrive at similar conclusions.
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After having read the Gamemastery Guide, I would strongly suggest that be your starting point for at least learning about what goes into a game. Honestly, it would have saved me several years of pain had such a resource been available when I started DMing. If someone in your group has it, ask to borrow it. If not, buy a copy yourself.
From there, I'll echo what others have said about premade adventures. Start with Crypt of the Everflame and try your hand at that. After its conclusion, you can either continue with that series or branch off and script your own scenario from there.
+1 for the recommendation of the Game Mastery Guide. This is, by far, one of the best books I've *ever* run across in setting expectations and giving some guidance on what it means, and what it takes, to run a successful game or campaign.