Adamantine Shield


Rules Questions


I am trying to craft a shield of adamantine. I want to use this shield as both a shield and a weapon. How does that work with the damage reduction and the ability to bypass hardness for sundering. Would an adamanitine shield even provide damage reduction? The text says it automatically is masterwork. Do I have to pay the adamantine price twice to get both abilities (3,000+5,000).


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Raging Hobbit wrote:
I am trying to craft a shield of adamantine. I want to use this shield as both a shield and a weapon. How does that work with the damage reduction and the ability to bypass hardness for sundering. Would an adamanitine shield even provide damage reduction? The text says it automatically is masterwork. Do I have to pay the adamantine price twice to get both abilities (3,000+5,000).

Adamantine damage reduction quality only applies to ARMOR, not shield. However, using it as a bashing weapon would act as a bludgenoning adamantine weapon and bypass damage reduction on say, a golem.


By RAW, Seraph has it right.

And it would be 3,000gp. + normal shield price.


Raging Hobbit wrote:
I am trying to craft a shield of adamantine. I want to use this shield as both a shield and a weapon. How does that work with the damage reduction and the ability to bypass hardness for sundering. Would an adamanitine shield even provide damage reduction? The text says it automatically is masterwork. Do I have to pay the adamantine price twice to get both abilities (3,000+5,000).

Damage reduction: No dice, that needs to be a suit of armor.

I would say that since you gain no benefit of the adamantine as armor its the 3 grand for the weapon.

3,170 gp is what you'd pay for it in the shop. The masterwork cost of a weapon or armor is included in the price for the adamantine. I would add another 150 since its usually weapon OR armor, and this is both.

Since you're making it, you pay

1,000 for the adamantite
50 for the mats of the mw armor
adamantine includes the the mats for the masterwork weapon
6.67 gp for the mats of the Large steel shield.

Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week's worth of work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item.

Create Masterwork Items: You can make a masterwork item: a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork [or in this case adamantite] component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield, see Equipment for the price of other masterwork tools) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.

3,170 is what i'd put as the price of an adamantine weapon armor shield.

thats 31,700 silver peices.

Each week you roll craft armor and multiply what you get by 20.
If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again. ---- i would HIGHLY recommend making sure your craft is at +16 or higher before trying this.... you will be making a lot of checks.

If you have a +16 to your craft and take 10 every week, it would take 60 weeks to finish. (more than a year) I thought i saw something somewhere about special materials not figuring into the crafting time but i can't seem to find it.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Raging Hobbit wrote:
I am trying to craft a shield of adamantine. I want to use this shield as both a shield and a weapon. How does that work with the damage reduction and the ability to bypass hardness for sundering. Would an adamanitine shield even provide damage reduction? The text says it automatically is masterwork. Do I have to pay the adamantine price twice to get both abilities (3,000+5,000).

Damage reduction: No dice, that needs to be a suit of armor.

I would say that since you gain no benefit of the adamantine as armor its the 3 grand for the weapon.

3,170 gp is what you'd pay for it in the shop. The masterwork cost of a weapon or armor is included in the price for the adamantine. I would add another 150 since its usually weapon OR armor, and this is both.

Since you're making it, you pay

1,000 for the adamantite
50 for the mats of the mw armor
adamantine includes the the mats for the masterwork weapon
6.67 gp for the mats of the Large steel shield.

Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week's worth of work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item.

Create Masterwork Items: You can make a masterwork item: a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork [or in this case adamantite] component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield, see Equipment for the price of other masterwork tools) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.

3,170 is what i'd put as the price of an...

OK 2 questions then:

Question 1 – The text states that Adamantine items are automatically Masterwork. Therefore, would I get the -1 armor check penalty on account of it being masterwork armor? Would I also get the +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls as it states in the Adamantine section under “Special Materials”?

Question 2 – How do I enchant the shield? I would like to enchant it as a weapon AND as a shield. The enchantments are counted separately but what about the costs?

e.g. to give the shield a +1 to attack rolls I would have to pay 2,000g. Then to get a +1 AC bonus would I have to pay 6,000 (8,000-2,000) or just 2,000?


1) Masterwork armour and shields specifically say that they do not give a bonus to attack rolls.

2) Costs are counted seperately as well. 8,000gp as per your example.


Tanis wrote:

1) Masterwork armour and shields specifically say that they do not give a bonus to attack rolls.

Its not the Masterwork quality that gives it a +1 attack bonus. It's the fact that its a weapon made of adamantine.


Nah, it's because it's MW.

Here's the entry:

Adamantine is so costly that weapons and armor made from it are always of masterwork quality; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. Thus, adamantine weapons and ammunition have a +1
enhancement bonus on attack rolls,
and the armor check penalty of adamantine armor is lessened by 1 compared to ordinary armor of its type.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Yes, you'd get a +1 Th from the masterwork.

yes, it would bypass Dr/Adamantine as a blud weapon.

Note: if you add spikes, you pay for them seperately.

AFAIK, there's no additional time spent crafting out of special materials. They just increase the cost by a fixed amount of materials.

You pay for the weapon and armor enhancements totally seperately. yes, it's possible to put 200k for a +10 weapon and 100k for +10 armor on a shield. technically, you can do the same thing with Armor spikes.

The classic uber shield is a +5 Bashing Shield with +5 Defender Spikes. You can get something like a +13 bonus to AC off it. If you attack, do it as blud dmg and you don't even take the -5 TH from the defender spikes.

===Aelryinth


Tanis wrote:

Nah, it's because it's MW.

Here's the entry:

Adamantine is so costly that weapons and armor made from it are always of masterwork quality; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. Thus, adamantine weapons and ammunition have a +1
enhancement bonus on attack rolls,
and the armor check penalty of adamantine armor is lessened by 1 compared to ordinary armor of its type.

ok so by paying the 3,170 I could potentially enchant the shield as a weapon and as a shield, correct?

Does the Masterwork quality of the shield satisfy the requirement for the item to be enchanted as both?

I would think so then.


Aelryinth wrote:
Yes, you'd get a +1 Th from the masterwork.

Can you show reference to the rules to back this up?

Aelryinth wrote:
yes, it would bypass Dr/Adamantine as a blud weapon.

True.

Aelryinth wrote:
Note: if you add spikes, you pay for them seperately.

Yep.

Aelryinth wrote:
AFAIK, there's no additional time spent crafting out of special materials. They just increase the cost by a fixed amount of materials.

But the increased cost increases the crafting time.

Aelryinth wrote:
You pay for the weapon and armor enhancements totally seperately. yes, it's possible to put 200k for a +10 weapon and 100k for +10 armor on a shield. technically, you can do the same thing with Armor spikes.

The enhancement bonus is to either the shield or the spikes - not both.

Aelryinth wrote:
The classic uber shield is a +5 Bashing Shield with +5 Defender Spikes. You can get something like a +13 bonus to AC off it. If you attack, do it as blud dmg and you don't even take the -5 TH from the defender spikes.

The Defending property allows you to transfer your enhancement bonus to your AC. You could have a +5 Bashing enhancement (as a shield) and a +5 Defending (as a weapon) spiked shield. You could then transfer the +5 enhancement bonus to attack and damage to your AC.

So if the above shield was a light shield you could transfer the +5 enhancement bonus to attack and damge to AC giving you +5 to the existing +6 bns to AC. So +11 (12 if heavy shield). And you would lose the +5 bns to attack when shield bashing.


1 more thing Tanis.

For the +5 defending bashing shield you would still have a +1 enhancement bonust to hit and damage due to the bashing quality.


Raging Hobbit wrote:
Tanis wrote:

Nah, it's because it's MW.

Here's the entry:

Adamantine is so costly that weapons and armor made from it are always of masterwork quality; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. Thus, adamantine weapons and ammunition have a +1
enhancement bonus on attack rolls,
and the armor check penalty of adamantine armor is lessened by 1 compared to ordinary armor of its type.

ok so by paying the 3,170 I could potentially enchant the shield as a weapon and as a shield, correct?

Does the Masterwork quality of the shield satisfy the requirement for the item to be enchanted as both?

I would think so then.

Yeah, you've got it. You would need to pay 2,000gp to enchant it as a weapon, 1,000gp to enchant it as a shield, and 150gp for the m/work quality. Once it's enchanted as a weapon you get the +1 to attack (and damage as well) anyway, so don't worry about the m/work enhancement to attack.

If it was just m/work then you would not get the bonus to attack.


ahhh, you're right there Abraham.

*edit* it's confusing terminology tho.

It says that it *acts* as a +1 weapon when bashing. Presumably if it's got a magic property, it's already at least +1.

But i think you're right, it's an additional +1 as it's an untyped bonus, methinks.

Liberty's Edge

As noted in the other thread on the topic of shields, there is a difference of opinion about how to deal with shields regarding masterwork and weapon enchantment. I'm of the opinion that

As to the base cost of the adamantine shield, I don't know whether it is 3k or 5k cost. I would tend toward 5k, else it becomes the cheapest adamantine weapon available, and the DR benefit for the armor cost is unavailable.

As for the enchantment costs, my take on it (and the way I saw it handled in LG) is that the enchantment cost for the weapon side and the cost for the armor side are handled separately. So, the upgrade to the shield bonus to +1 is 1000gp, and the upgrade to the magical weapon aspect to +1 is 2000gp, for a total of 3000gp on top of the base cost of a non-magical adamantine weapon.

If you are using it to sunder objects, avoid adding a spike without talking to your DM. An spiked shield does piercing damage, which can't be used to sunder. Some see it as being able to do either bludgeoning or piercing; others don't. (Note: this came as a shocking surprise to the Seven Dwarves, who found that their picks could not be used for sundering rocks in their mining occupation. Grumpy was particularly annoyed.)


Tanis wrote:

ahhh, you're right there Abraham.

*edit* it's confusing terminology tho.

It says that it *acts* as a +1 weapon when bashing. Presumably if it's got a magic property, it's already at least +1.

But i think you're right, it's an additional +1 as it's an untyped bonus, methinks.

Well it's treated as a +1 weapon. Normally this would be overwhelmed by the +5 offensive bonus from the weapon enchantments... but since you threw those all into defense a +1 is higher than a +0 so it's a +1 weapon again from the bashing quality.


If you want your +1 shield to also act like a +1 weapon, pick up the Shield Master feat from the core rulebook. It specifically allows you to add the shield's enhancement bonus to your attack and damage rolls, as if it was a weapon enchant.

That is, if you're a shield specializing character at least... but you tend to be, if you want to shield bash. And you'll save a fair pile of gold on it.


Tanis wrote:


Yeah, you've got it. You would need to pay 2,000gp to enchant it as a weapon, 1,000gp to enchant it as a shield, and 150gp for the m/work quality. Once it's enchanted as a weapon you get the +1 to attack (and damage as well) anyway, so don't worry about the m/work enhancement to attack.

If it was just m/work then you would not get the bonus to attack.

That's how it goes down.

Shield at purchase: 3,020
To enchant as a weapon:+2,000
To enchant as a shield:+1,000

Total Adamantine shield with +1 to attack and damgae and a +1 to AC would cost 6,020.

Liberty's Edge

Now the question should be:

What about an Adamantine Shield with a +10 equivalent bonus to AC and a +10 equivalent bonus to attack/damage? :P

The most awesome shield anywhere, ever!

EDIT: 303,170gp? Damn!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Austin Morgan wrote:

Now the question should be:

What about an Adamantine Shield with a +10 equivalent bonus to AC and a +10 equivalent bonus to attack/damage? :P

The most awesome shield anywhere, ever!

EDIT: 303,170gp? Damn!

Exactly right. Technically, you'd have an Epic Shield.

I use +13 for a heavy shield (+2) with shield spec(+3), +5 defender going (+8) and +5 armor enhanced (+13 total).

Note that with Shield Mastery, you'd still get a +7/+7 th/dmg shield with FULL DEFENDER bonus. that's because SM uses the armor bonus, and Defender uses the Weapon Bonus.

Might wanna swing it by your DM, just to make sure he lets you have that.

And if you use Augment Crystals, a Greater Missile Deflect gives you another +5 AC against all ranged attacks, + deflects the first shot against you each round automatically. If you have the shield ward feat, that would include rays...

==Aelryinth

Sovereign Court

Austin Morgan wrote:

Now the question should be:

What about an Adamantine Shield with a +10 equivalent bonus to AC and a +10 equivalent bonus to attack/damage? :P

The most awesome shield anywhere, ever!

EDIT: 303,170gp? Damn!

Cannot be made.

PathfinderRPG wrote:
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.

To make a +10 item you would have to find a level 30 wizard in a game that only goes up to level 20.

That gives a limit of +6 weapon or armour enhancement.

Is there any other limit anywhere, or is that it?


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GeraintElberion wrote:
Austin Morgan wrote:

Now the question should be:

What about an Adamantine Shield with a +10 equivalent bonus to AC and a +10 equivalent bonus to attack/damage? :P

The most awesome shield anywhere, ever!

EDIT: 303,170gp? Damn!

Cannot be made.

PathfinderRPG wrote:
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.

To make a +10 item you would have to find a level 30 wizard in a game that only goes up to level 20.

That gives a limit of +6 weapon or armour enhancement.

Is there any other limit anywhere, or is that it?

The +10 would obviously have to be +5 to hit and +5 in special abilities as stated in the Magic Item Creation section of both armor and weapons (check the footnotes in the Table:Armor and Shields) sections.


OneSoulLegion wrote:

If you want your +1 shield to also act like a +1 weapon, pick up the Shield Master feat from the core rulebook. It specifically allows you to add the shield's enhancement bonus to your attack and damage rolls, as if it was a weapon enchant.

That is, if you're a shield specializing character at least... but you tend to be, if you want to shield bash. And you'll save a fair pile of gold on it.

I was pointing out the special side benefit of the bashing enhancement. After all the shield was already a +5 weapon in this specific case.


GeraintElberion wrote:
Austin Morgan wrote:

Now the question should be:

What about an Adamantine Shield with a +10 equivalent bonus to AC and a +10 equivalent bonus to attack/damage? :P

The most awesome shield anywhere, ever!

EDIT: 303,170gp? Damn!

Cannot be made.

PathfinderRPG wrote:
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.

To make a +10 item you would have to find a level 30 wizard in a game that only goes up to level 20.

That gives a limit of +6 weapon or armour enhancement.

I'm pretty sure it can be made.

As the angry halfling said it has to be +5 enhancement bonus/+5 special properties.

Your CL has to be 3 times the lesser of the these, so +5 *3 = CL 15.

Sovereign Court

Raging Hobbit wrote:
good point

fairy snuff


Seraph403 wrote:
Raging Hobbit wrote:
I am trying to craft a shield of adamantine. I want to use this shield as both a shield and a weapon. How does that work with the damage reduction and the ability to bypass hardness for sundering. Would an adamanitine shield even provide damage reduction? The text says it automatically is masterwork. Do I have to pay the adamantine price twice to get both abilities (3,000+5,000).
Adamantine damage reduction quality only applies to ARMOR, not shield. However, using it as a bashing weapon would act as a bludgenoning adamantine weapon and bypass damage reduction on say, a golem.

I cant understand why a Shield which is a piece of Armour and counts towards Armour class should not have damage reduction. Surely it should have but only to attacks coming from the shielded side and the front.

My thoughts would be DR is dependent on the size of the shield - a Large shield is thicker than a small shield, and should be classed as Light Armour DR - small shield, Med Armour - Large Shield, and if you manage to carry a Tower shield - Heavy.
The cost should be +3000, +6000, +9000


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Austin Morgan wrote:

Now the question should be:

What about an Adamantine Shield with a +10 equivalent bonus to AC and a +10 equivalent bonus to attack/damage? :P

The most awesome shield anywhere, ever!

EDIT: 303,170gp? Damn!

Fortuantely Pathifinder does not have the rule that anything with a value of over 200k is Epic.

Silver Crusade

I play with a sword and board-bashing fighter and I had to do a lot of research to see how by RAW and RAI it was possible to make it work.

Basically : you can enchant a shield as a weapon AND a shield. Adamantium doesn't give defensive bonuses to a shield except from being harder to sunder.
An easier way to do this is by adding spikes to the shield (350 PO for masterwork spikes). This way, you can enchant separately the spikes as a weapon, and the shield... as a shield. But in the case of the bashing ability, there is an exception => By adding spikes, and with a bashing light shield, you get a 1d8 weapon considered as having a +1 enhancement when used to bash. If you want to get a better WEAPON out of this, you'll have to buy at least a +2 enhancement on the spikes since "Bashing" and "+1 Spikes" give the same enhancement bonus, and thus don't stack.

So you can have a +5 Bashing of Spell resistance (17), +5 Vorpal Adamantium Spiked shield. You'll just need a lot of money.

The Exchange

Maxximilius wrote:

I play with a sword and board-bashing fighter and I had to do a lot of research to see how by RAW and RAI it was possible to make it work.

Basically : you can enchant a shield as a weapon AND a shield. Adamantium doesn't give defensive bonuses to a shield except from being harder to sunder.
An easier way to do this is by adding spikes to the shield (350 PO for masterwork spikes). This way, you can enchant separately the spikes as a weapon, and the shield... as a shield. But in the case of the bashing ability, there is an exception => By adding spikes, and with a bashing light shield, you get a 1d8 weapon considered as having a +1 enhancement when used to bash. If you want to get a better WEAPON out of this, you'll have to buy at least a +2 enhancement on the spikes since "Bashing" and "+1 Spikes" give the same enhancement bonus, and thus don't stack.

So you can have a +5 Bashing of Spell resistance (17), +5 Vorpal Adamantium Spiked shield. You'll just need a lot of money.

Actually, you can't have a Vorpal shield. That requires a slashing weapon.


SianeElfLord wrote:
Seraph403 wrote:
Raging Hobbit wrote:
I am trying to craft a shield of adamantine. I want to use this shield as both a shield and a weapon. How does that work with the damage reduction and the ability to bypass hardness for sundering. Would an adamanitine shield even provide damage reduction? The text says it automatically is masterwork. Do I have to pay the adamantine price twice to get both abilities (3,000+5,000).
Adamantine damage reduction quality only applies to ARMOR, not shield. However, using it as a bashing weapon would act as a bludgenoning adamantine weapon and bypass damage reduction on say, a golem.

I cant understand why a Shield which is a piece of Armour and counts towards Armour class should not have damage reduction. Surely it should have but only to attacks coming from the shielded side and the front.

My thoughts would be DR is dependent on the size of the shield - a Large shield is thicker than a small shield, and should be classed as Light Armour DR - small shield, Med Armour - Large Shield, and if you manage to carry a Tower shield - Heavy.
The cost should be +3000, +6000, +9000

Because a shield isn't attributing to your "Armor" bonus, it is your "Shield" bonus. Yes, it applies to your FINAL AC, but it is a different item and bonus all together. Its easier to find a way past a shield than it is in a guy wearing full plate as the full plate encompasses your entire body, thus giving you the damage reduction. I kick you from behind, while you're on the ground, in the face, in your arm, etc - you are still armored. You are holding your shield and i slash you in the back, why should you deserve a damage reduction bonus the same as a guy in full plate?

Even in the front, the shield doesnt cover you 100%.

Silver Crusade

Quote:
Actually, you can't have a Vorpal shield. That requires a slashing weapon.

Woops yeah, typo on my part, I wrote it by thinking about the piercing spikes but even then, I knew it did not work and simply forgot to change it.

IMHO, for fun, +5 Wounding Speed spikes could become nasty with a full TWF critical-bashing build and the Bashing Finish feat. It's easily 4-5 points of bleeding/round, possibly double if your main weapon is wounding and keen, and it stacks each round.


*raise thread*
Just want to point out since I have now by count seen this four times: You do *N O T* have to pay 150 for masterwork "Adamantine is so costly that the price for masterwork is included in the prices given below". Thanks otherwise for the head's-up!

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