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Fire isn't solid. It'd be no harder than running through a plume of smoke, save for the requisite amount of cojones to jump through fire.
I'd probably have him take the effects of the spell, but allow the charge.
Flaming sphere specifically has a "spongy surface" if I remember correctly, which means it is somewhat solid.
I wouldn't allow it.
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I would say a guarded no. Simply because the ball itself is described as having a spongy yielding consistency. Meaning it does have some solid form, think a giant flaming sponge and you are on the right track.
This however does not prevent the player from entering its space and passing through it but you cannot do so during a charge as it would pose itself as an obstacle.
There are ways around this though, say if the Barbarian wants to charge the person behind the ball, I would let him make an acrobatics check to jump over the ball which I will assume is about 3-4 feet tall as it only takes up one space. The height of the jump is the equal to 1/4 of the total of the acrobatics roll.
The druid in the party had cast Flaming Sphere and killed an enemy in a 5ft. hallway. Ther Barbarian wanted to Charge through the Flaming Sphere and attack the enemy that was behind the first that had died.
I wasn't sure and said he could just to speed up the game but I thought I would ask here in case it ever comes up in the future.
Fairly firm yes. The flame enters squares with creatures in order to damage them, so creatures should be able to enter the square with the sphere. Its also described I would have the sphere damage him as he passed through though.
The surface of the sphere has a spongy, yielding consistency and so does not cause damage except by its flame. It cannot push aside unwilling creatures or batter down large obstacles - there is no mention of costing the creature it rolls over movement, so it doesn't.
this sounds like the barbarian could charge through.
Yup i'd also say you can go and charge through it, but you will take the damage (but also get the save)
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but also get the save
ahhh D&D, where Chet the nimble can roast his nuts on the open fire and still have kids...
Barbarin wants to run throw it.
"sphere has a spongy, yielding consistency"
Well since it is Yielding, i would think you could
BUT, if you intentionally run throw it: i would not allow a saving throw.
Reflex save = NO, as you are not trying to avoid it, but run thro it.
Now if it was a Fortitude save, i would have said yes, but it is not.
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Barbarin wants to run throw it.
"sphere has a spongy, yielding consistency"
Well since it is Yielding, i would think you could
BUT, if you intentionally run throw it: i would not allow a saving throw.
Reflex save = NO, as you are not trying to avoid it, but run thro it.
Now if it was a Fortitude save, i would have said yes, but it is not.
An unconscious paraplegic gets a reflex save, why shouldn't he?
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An unconscious paraplegic gets a reflex save, why shouldn't he?
Because the unconscious paraplegic isn't running head-first into the giant fiery sponge of death in hopes to come out the other side.
It is like saying a rogue jumping INTO the pit trap should get a reflex save to avoid the damage anyway.
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An unconscious paraplegic gets a reflex save, why shouldn't he?Because the unconscious paraplegic isn't running head-first into the giant fiery sponge of death in hopes to come out the other side.
It is like saying a rogue jumping INTO the pit trap should get a reflex save to avoid the damage anyway.
Yes, but is it different if the flame takes your spot? That's why you have to do the save in the first place! Note that the sphere is a 5ft diameter one, meaning that if it's in your square at all it's completely enveloping you, yet it still gives you a save (and doesn't even require you to leave the square to continue getting saves!)
@Mothman, the sphere does not occupy its own square, hence why it can share a square with any creature without penalizing the creature (other than damage).
@Spongy comments: The spongy thing is immediately followed by a line saying "thus does not damage objects except by its flame." It's obvious that this line was just to avoid people trying to "bludgeon" with the sphere in some manner, since no other text supports any form of solidity.
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An unconscious paraplegic gets a reflex save, why shouldn't he?Because the unconscious paraplegic isn't running head-first into the giant fiery sponge of death in hopes to come out the other side.
It is like saying a rogue jumping INTO the pit trap should get a reflex save to avoid the damage anyway.
This is a different reflex save. It's a save to jump OUT of the pit's area before it falls out from under you. Obviously jumping in would negate that (since a successful save has you leave the pit's area). This is not the case with flaming sphere, which does not require you to leave the area to avoid its effects.
(NOTE: I'm not arguing that this is realistic, just that it's RAW).
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@Mothman, the sphere does not occupy its own square, hence why it can share a square with any creature without penalizing the creature (other than damage).
As I understand the rules, the fact that it can share a space with a character does not exclude it from occupying a space itself. A tiny creature occupies a space but may share its space with other tiny or smaller creatures, or indeed larger creatures (such as if a tiny creature attacks a larger creature in melee). A table or chair or low barrier occupies a space and would hinder a charge, but a creature may share its space.
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If the player wants his barb to rush through the flames (taking damage in the process) just to charge an enemy, I'd say go for it.
There's nothing in the spell description that says a Flaming Sphere impedes movement in any way, and the character could reasonably jump over the sphere. Maybe require an acrobatics check in order to prevent the sphere for breaking his charge, but I definitely wouldn't rule it out entirely.
More importantly, is allowing this going to make the game more fun or less fun for the players and the DM? I'd vote for more fun! I can just imagine the look on his opponent's face when a fiery, frothy barbarian comes barreling towards him. Priceless!
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You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles)......
I do not think the flaming sphere is a "clear path" to the opponent so no charge...the path is not clear!
If it were an illusion of a flaming sphere it still would not be clear!
Well, since a curtain of air is blocking my path I obviously cannot charge outside of a vacuum. </sarcasm... mostly>
IMO, if it isn't solid, doesn't obscure/interrupt your footing (nothing in this spell says anything about concealing), doesn't block LoS on the opponent and doesn't slow/abate you in some forced manner (other than just damage), then you can charge through it. And by opinion, I mean RAW.
@Mothman: True enough, but fire isn't actually solid (refer to my previous comment about "Spongy" being anti-cheese text) and thus doesn't trip you up like a stool or table would. It's no different than an illusion outside of the fact that it hurts.
Now, if you want to make the argument that it obscures sight (and acts as total cover to those behind it) then it would block a charge, but that is not part of the spell so that would again be houserules.
NOTE: I'm only arguing FOR charging because (A) It isn't unreasonable/it makes sense (B) It's RAW and (C) It's awesome. This fulfills all three requirements of being allowed at my table: Makes sense, fair (can be done by either party), cool.
More importantly, is allowing this going to make the game more fun or less fun for the players and the DM? I'd vote for more fun!
Hear, hear!
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I would let him charge. The sphere does not slow, block, or prevent movement. It doesn't explicitly block line of sight, which would prevent charging.
In fact, the sphere only damages someone if it stops in their square. I might be persuaded to rule that someone just running through the sphere wouldn't take damage (or maybe would take 1d6 instead of 3d6).
I might allow him to try and leap over it but I would not allow him to charge though it. To me the sphere is semi solid and an obstetrical. You can't just run though it as if it was not there.
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I think the character could not charge through although as a DM I might allow it (so DMs call) but
- the char would have to make a save first & possibly take damage
- plus the char could not be a gnome, halfling or dwarf since the sphere is 5' which would block LOS to these short races disallowing a charge
- the reason I might not allow it is based on a line in the spell
"If it enters a space with a creature, it stops moving for the round" this to me means the sphere has a soid enough substance to prevent moving further past a character - I expect it would work both ways
I think you made the right call on the spell. The question I have is, does the dead body in the 5 foot hall that the sphere just made make it's square difficult ground or not? Running over a dead body in combat is a great way to lose footing and potentially breaking charge legality.
I think you made the right call on the spell. The question I have is, does the dead body in the 5 foot hall that the sphere just made make it's square difficult ground or not? Running over a dead body in combat is a great way to lose footing and potentially breaking charge legality.
Helpless creatures (and dead is pretty helpless) don't stop a charge. In fact, unless it would eat up more than 5 ft. per square of your movement (such as rough terrain, unfavorable conditions, a big ole' brick wall) it doesn't stop a charge.
The question is, does a flaming sphere prevent or hinder movement through its square? I'm looking, and I don't see any rules texts that tells me that it does. So I'm saying charge away. You'll burn a bit, but if you're considering this move you can probably take it.
It may not make perfect sense, depending on a person's given visualization of the spell, but the rules don't seem to suggest that there's any reason it wouldn't work. And be really, really cool.
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It would probably be less cool if you were the wizard expecting flaming sphere to actually do something besides a mediocre amount of damage, maybe.
IMO having flaming sphere deny a charge would be "free benefits" which tend to be denied, whether spell or mundane. If you have this deny a charge (most likely due to LoS and either you or the opponent being short), then you also have to accept things like shooting a person in the leg to stop them from running (or at least slow them).
Neither is entirely unreasonable, but the game does not allow either effect by RAW.Games are usually much more interesting when you allow these sorts of "free" benefits, because it encourages the players to see the world as a world, rather than as a game. Just be careful not to give a very huge benefit unless it seems unavoidable.
For the OP's case I presumed it was "normal medium humanoid" versus "normal medium humanoid." This means that they are likely around 5'9" and can easily see over the sphere to locate the opponent to charge. The sphere itself doesn't block charging since it's immaterial, so they charge through (take their save) and get an attack. If either side was small sized (and the other wasn't large), I'd probably deny the charge for line-of-sight reasons. For the sake of keeping math simple, I'd just make rough guesstimations that don't really use geometry to rule this kind of stuff, and expect players to take "word as law" when I'm adjudicating such things in the interest of brevity.
Does it make the game more complicated? Sometimes, and it *is* easy to go overboard, but I find that making quick case-by-case rulings keeps the game going and makes it fun.