First off, like many folks I really like the Arcane Duelist bard archetype. But I'm wondering about bladethirst ability, specifically the special abilities that can be granted to a weapon.
For example bane seems to me to be an ability that should be in there. I can totally see a bard channeling enough hate into a bardic music effect to cause the weapons to echo that hate.
Also we have shock and shocking burst but not corrosive, flaming, frost or sonic or their associated burst abilities. Why one type and not the others?
Not meaning to nitpick (okay maybe a little) but I was just curious on the reasoning (if any) behind this. Once again, I love the options that were put out in the APG.
Now, if we could just get an ability or feat that would allow more than one bardic performance to be in effect at one time...
Don't know about anyone else but as much as I love the arcane duelist I'd kill to get this ability on say a fighter with a few feats.
as for the reasoning probably a simple balence issue, since the ability primarily allow to tailor your weapon to bypass damage reduction or to target a creatures specific vunerbility.
personally I see no reason you could open up the entire suite of powers for bladethirst , maybe cost you a hero point to apply somthing not on the list ?
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I think it was wise to keep Bane off the list of granted powers because it would be too powerful to allow you to tailor your weapons for each encounter.
Bane as a weapon enhancement is generally balanced because it's a permanent limited bonus. If you could change which creature type it applied to for each fight, it would have to be much more expensive to be balanced against other similarly powered abilities. while I agree it would be cool for the bard to use his knowledge or abilities to influence people to create a bane property in weaponry, I think it would be too powerful an ability.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Don't know about anyone else but as much as I love the arcane duelist I'd kill to get this ability on say a fighter with a few feats.
as for the reasoning probably a simple balance issue, since the ability primarily allow to tailor your weapon to bypass damage reduction or to target a creatures specific vulnerability.
Correct.
This is the reason why I did it the way I did. The ability is already pretty versatile, allowing you to tailor the abilities you want to the situation at hand. HOWEVER, being able to instantly add +2 to hit and +2d6+2 damage to "whatever I happen to be fighting right now, for as long as I need to, and if I have to switch opponents I can just switch over my bane effect to them now" seemed way too much.
The inquisitor's bane ability, by comparison, is the ONLY ability of this flavor that they get, and they only get it 1 rd/level, which is less than half the duration the bard and can't use Lingering Performance, etc. It also affects only their own weapons, while the Arcane Duelist can do Bladethirst for anybody they like (unless I'm misremembering).
The Inq's bane ability is quicker to activate, at least at lower levels, but the AD gets performance as a move action at 7th and swift at 13th, so it's a temporary advantage.
What makes Bane only a +1 weapon ability is that it's GREAT, but inflexible. You choose a creature type and hope for the best. If bane is totally fluid and you can use it whenever you want against anybody you want, then it becomes strictly better than ANY of the +1 and at least as good if not better than any of the +2 abilities (you're getting a better damage bonus than holy/unholy/etc., for example, AND a bonus to hit... with the disadvantage that you don't count as an aligned weapon for DR).
personally I see no reason you could open up the entire suite of powers for bladethirst , maybe cost you a hero point to apply somthing not on the list ?
The choice of shock/shocking burst was basically arbitrary, just like how paladins can get flaming/flaming burst... and not the other elemental types. I don't think there's anything inherently wrongbadnofun about switching the elemental type to another, but whichever flavor of energy you go with I'd restrict it to one, vs. letting the arcane duelist get them all.
You could think of allowing or creating a feat that let you add different energy types or other magic weapon powers to the Arcane Duelist, "Improved Bladethirst" or some such thing.
Thank you for the responses (esp Jason).
I figured it was a game balance issue, but I have to wonder how much it would affect that balance. I mean it doesn't come until 6th level, so you're not going to just dip into this class for the benefit.
Since the arcane duelist is supposed to be more of a fighter type this would help bring him closer to the martial types in terms of ability to hit and do damage.
Also since presently you can only have one bardic music effect going at one time, he's limited to what he can pull off. Bonuses for everyone or one larger bonus for one (until 18th level and then bane is academic, but still useful).
And of course there is the internal debate, do I make my weapon better, giving me a greater chance for glory, or do I buff the fully martial character?
I do like the feat idea, perhaps make it have a requirement of ability to Inspire Greatness.
I think that this having this ability might make the bard a character that every party would want to have. Not an absoulute necessity, but make it more appealing to players (you guys did a great job at that with all the archetypes btw). Can you imagine hearing "okay, who's playing the bard" at the game table?
The nice part with the current bard archtypes is it wasn't "Who's playing the bard?" but "What... all of you are bards? And all different types?!??!!"
Magician, Arcane Duelist and Sandman all at the same table.
Since the arcane duelist is supposed to be more of a fighter type this would help bring him closer to the martial types in terms of ability to hit and do damage.
Arcane Strike (+1 damage, with an additional +1 per 5 caster levels), heroism (+2 morale bonus to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks), and Inspire Courage (+2 competence bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls; with Lingering Performance) can do a dandy job by themselves! Bladethirst is just icing on the cake, really.
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I have another question regarding the Bladethirst ability for the Arcane Duelist archetype. Do you need to have the ability to confer the appropriate enhancement bonus to add specific magic weapon abilities? For instance, Speed is a +3 enhancement bonus ability; does the Arcane Duelist need to be able to give a +3 enhancement bonus using Bladethirst? Or, can he simply select any of those abilities on the list. The text does say "These bonuses stack with existing bonuses and may be used to increase the item’s enhancement bonus up to +5 or to add any of the following weapon properties: defending, distance, ghost touch, keen, mighty cleaving, returning, shock, shocking burst, seeking, speed, or wounding," which seems to suggest you can either add bonuses up to +5, or add any of those listed abilities. Clarification would be greatly appreciated.
I have another question regarding the Bladethirst ability for the Arcane Duelist archetype...
I would assume that you need to be able to add the bonus before you can apply the effects that are equal to that bonus. (for example, +3 for speed) But this makes it a faily weak power compared to inspire courage, which gives pluses to both attack and damage rolls to ALL allies withing 30ft. I'm playing an arcane dualist who just got to level 6, and I'm not planning on using it unless someone really needs ghost touch, keen, or seeking in a specific situation.
I'm not complaining though. It seems like a fun ability when you get into one of those situations, and fits perfectly to the class, but inspire courage just rocks.
The problem with Blade Thirst from I found in playing the AD bard is I never used it. I was always using Inspire courage and you can't use both of these at the same time. My group just benefited so much from Inspire courage though, we didn't have fighter in the group. Just a lot 3/4 BAB classes so Inspire courage was extremely useful. The Battle Oracle really did well with it for example.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I have another question regarding the Bladethirst ability for the Arcane Duelist archetype. Do you need to have the ability to confer the appropriate enhancement bonus to add specific magic weapon abilities? For instance, Speed is a +3 enhancement bonus ability; does the Arcane Duelist need to be able to give a +3 enhancement bonus using Bladethirst? Or, can he simply select any of those abilities on the list. The text does say "These bonuses stack with existing bonuses and may be used to increase the item’s enhancement bonus up to +5 or to add any of the following weapon properties: defending, distance, ghost touch, keen, mighty cleaving, returning, shock, shocking burst, seeking, speed, or wounding," which seems to suggest you can either add bonuses up to +5, or add any of those listed abilities. Clarification would be greatly appreciated.
You need to have enough of a 'plus' to essentially 'buy' that ability - +1 for keen, +2 for shocking burst, etc. You can also mix and match. If you can charge up a +3 weapon, you could make it, for example:
A. +3 (no special abilities)
B. +2 shock
C. +1 shocking burst (or +1 returning distance, or +1 defending ghost touch, etc.)
D. keen, shocking burst (no added enhancement bonus)
You can apportion the bonus out as an actual bonus (capped at +5) and/or special abilities of equivalent value.
Clear enough?