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So in 1e Twilight and Solar Pitri's are explicitly said to be from at least one (and in the case of Solar, possibly many more) previous multiverse. Is this still the case in 2e, and if so how does it mesh up with Pharasma's origin story of being the sole survivor of the previous multiverse? Are they just exceptions similar to the Outer Gods?


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So in the vein of the cycle of souls and the afterlife, my understanding of the cycle is thus:

A soul is shaped from the matter of the Positive Energy Plane, a mortal is born, and receives that soul.

They live, they die, they're judged, and sent to their appropriate afterlife.

Assuming that their soul isn't destroyed by some means (undeath, being eaten by a deamon, ect.), they become a petitioner, and eventually become an outsider associated with that plane, such as a devil, an archon, or whatever.

Since the body and soul of these outsiders are one thing, when the body dies, so does the soul. So my questions are:

Does anything else happen to that soul after this point?

What is Pharasma's stance on the killing of these outsiders, as it seems that it's effectively destruction of souls? Like, if there was some incredibly powerful lunatic Wizard running around from plane to plane slaughtering masses of outsiders, would Pharasma have any specific interest in stopping them?

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SOLDIER-1st wrote:
So in 1e Twilight and Solar Pitri's are explicitly said to be from at least one (and in the case of Solar, possibly many more) previous multiverse. Is this still the case in 2e, and if so how does it mesh up with Pharasma's origin story of being the sole survivor of the previous multiverse? Are they just exceptions similar to the Outer Gods?

Dunno. That work was done by other people, not me, so I guess we'll need to wait and see. If they ask me for advice I'll gladly give it, but for now your guess is as good as mine.

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RevenantBacon1 wrote:

So in the vein of the cycle of souls and the afterlife, my understanding of the cycle is thus:

A soul is shaped from the matter of the Positive Energy Plane, a mortal is born, and receives that soul.

They live, they die, they're judged, and sent to their appropriate afterlife.

Assuming that their soul isn't destroyed by some means (undeath, being eaten by a deamon, ect.), they become a petitioner, and eventually become an outsider associated with that plane, such as a devil, an archon, or whatever.

Since the body and soul of these outsiders are one thing, when the body dies, so does the soul. So my questions are:

Does anything else happen to that soul after this point?

What is Pharasma's stance on the killing of these outsiders, as it seems that it's effectively destruction of souls? Like, if there was some incredibly powerful lunatic Wizard running around from plane to plane slaughtering masses of outsiders, would Pharasma have any specific interest in stopping them?

When a fiend or an angel or any of the other things we used to call outsiders but for which we don't have a blanket term to use in that way in 2nd edition dies, their body, mind, and soul, which are all "one unit" ends. It's rare, but some can become undead. But in most cases, their body/mind/soul decays like a body does in the real world and meshes into the quintessence that makes up the Great Beyond's natural and supernatural reality. The life energy itself cycles back into the Positive energy plane and is recycled/rebuilt and provides the energy needed to trigger a new soul that then repeats the cycle.

Killing them just perpetuates the whole cycle. Their souls don't get judged by Pharasma, but she regards them as part of the cycle anyway and treats them with the same respect as she does any living creature.

SO if you had a wiard who was trying to block fiend or angel life forces from cycling back into the Positive plane, yes, Pharasma and her faith and her psychopomps would take note and oppose it.


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Would Pharamsa have issue with the "Fiendish Apotheosis" ritual which allows a mortal to become a demon directly and without dying?

What other creatures or forces would likely have issues with it? Aeons?

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HowFortuitous wrote:

Would Pharamsa have issue with the "Fiendish Apotheosis" ritual which allows a mortal to become a demon directly and without dying?

What other creatures or forces would likely have issues with it? Aeons?

Pharasma would have no issue with it; that sort of ritual is a shortcut through the cycle, not a detour or a dead end.

Celestials would likely not be into it. As for aeons... depends entirely on the situation as to how it took place, but a chaotic evil mortal becoming a chaotic evil demon is unlikely to raise any additional interest of an aeon. Chaotic is chaotic.


Each Hellknight order has a citadel. Are these citadels considered independent states? Or are they officially a part of Cheliax (in the case of the Order of the Chain, Rack, et cetera), Taldor (in the case of the Order of the Scar), Isger (in the case of the Order of the Godclaw), Ravounel (in the case of the Order of the Torrent), Korvosa (in the case of the Order of the Nail), and Sargava (in the case of the Order of the Coil)? For example, do the Order of the Chain or the Order of the Nail swear loyalty and pay tax to the kings of Cheliax and Korvosa respectively?

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Aenigma wrote:
Each Hellknight order has a citadel. Are these citadels considered independent states? Or are they officially a part of Cheliax (in the case of the Order of the Chain, Rack, et cetera), Taldor (in the case of the Order of the Scar), Isger (in the case of the Order of the Godclaw), Ravounel (in the case of the Order of the Torrent), Korvosa (in the case of the Order of the Nail), and Sargava (in the case of the Order of the Coil)? For example, do the Order of the Chain or the Order of the Nail swear loyalty and pay tax to the kings of Cheliax and Korvosa respectively?

The Hellknights are a mercenary company mostly based but not universally based in Cheliax. They work with nations, but aren't official representatives of those nations. They are all their own independent thing.


Then can I assume that each Hellknight order is an independent sovereign state? For example, the Order of the Nail does not swear loyalty to, and thus does not pay tax to the king of Korvosa?


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I am currently preparing to GM Malevolence, and I wanted to thank you for the content warnings in the book. That made it easy for my group to discuss in advance what tone and content we want to go for. Now everyone is excited to build their characters. As well as delving into a haunted house.

Onto the question! Is there a dish that you find unexpectedly amazing? Something you made or someone talked you into trying, and you just did not expect to enjoy that food as much as you did?

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Aenigma wrote:
Then can I assume that each Hellknight order is an independent sovereign state? For example, the Order of the Nail does not swear loyalty to, and thus does not pay tax to the king of Korvosa?

It's a mercenary company, not a political party. A good real-world compassion I guess would be to think of them as a series of privately owned businesses. They pay tax to whoever the law where their citadel is located, unless they deem that the region's laws are unlawful, in which case they're either not there for long or work to help overthrow the government to aid the "right" law to take charge.

The Order of the Nail pays tax to Korvosa, since they're part of that region's holdings. They do not "swear loyalty" to Korvosa though. They do their own thing and as long as their goals and Korvosa's goals align, they work together.

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Mimski wrote:

I am currently preparing to GM Malevolence, and I wanted to thank you for the content warnings in the book. That made it easy for my group to discuss in advance what tone and content we want to go for. Now everyone is excited to build their characters. As well as delving into a haunted house.

Onto the question! Is there a dish that you find unexpectedly amazing? Something you made or someone talked you into trying, and you just did not expect to enjoy that food as much as you did?

I grew up the son of a commercial fisherman/scientist, so that meant that I was aware from a young age of the gross parasites that can infest fish, so for many years I was paranoid about eating sushi/raw fish. I still kinda get nervous about it and generally prefer to order cooked sushi or vegetarian sushi (or at the very least, smoked fish), but several times I've eaten raw fish as part of sushi and loved it.


Can I assume that it's illegal for the Hellknights to enter and operate in the Magnimarian territories (including Sandpoint), since Magnimar (and Sandpoint) is fiercely anti-Cheliax, anti-Korvosa, anti-diabolism, and thus anti-Hellknights?

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Aenigma wrote:
Can I assume that it's illegal for the Hellknights to enter and operate in the Magnimarian territories (including Sandpoint), since Magnimar (and Sandpoint) is fiercely anti-Cheliax, anti-Korvosa, anti-diabolism, and thus anti-Hellknights?

Nope, you can't assume that.

Magnimar being "fiercely" anti-Cheliax and anti-Korvosa is hyperbole and over-the-top. They're a bit more anti-diabolism, but not as much as, say, Ravounel.

Hellknights are none of those things. They are their own thing. And each order is very different. Some of them are welcome in Magnimar. Some are not. The ones that are not don't generally go to Magnimar.

Hellknights are not scoundrels who are the same as bandits. Nor are they automatically "from Hell."


Has Paizo revealed the settlement stat blacks for Sandpoint, Magnimar, Korvosa, and Riddleport in Second Edition?

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Aenigma wrote:
Has Paizo revealed the settlement stat blacks for Sandpoint, Magnimar, Korvosa, and Riddleport in Second Edition?

Not yet. We haven't touched Varisia much at all yet. If folks want us to do stuff there, let us know, but reading the "room" it sounds like folks are more interested overall with exploring brand new areas at this time. So it might be a while before we return to Varisia.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Aenigma wrote:
Has Paizo revealed the settlement stat blacks for Sandpoint, Magnimar, Korvosa, and Riddleport in Second Edition?
Not yet. We haven't touched Varisia much at all yet. If folks want us to do stuff there, let us know, but reading the "room" it sounds like folks are more interested overall with exploring brand new areas at this time. So it might be a while before we return to Varisia.

For what it's worth, I'm one of those "new areas" voices - really loving that PF2 has gotten away from areas that 1e really familiarized us with.


I'm not sure who created this name, but why is the coastal land of south-western Varisia called the Lost Coast? Who lost what?

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keftiu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Aenigma wrote:
Has Paizo revealed the settlement stat blacks for Sandpoint, Magnimar, Korvosa, and Riddleport in Second Edition?
Not yet. We haven't touched Varisia much at all yet. If folks want us to do stuff there, let us know, but reading the "room" it sounds like folks are more interested overall with exploring brand new areas at this time. So it might be a while before we return to Varisia.
For what it's worth, I'm one of those "new areas" voices - really loving that PF2 has gotten away from areas that 1e really familiarized us with.

Please keep posts here to questions for me; makes it easier for me to navigate the thread if we all keep it from diverging into discussion; thanks!

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Aenigma wrote:
I'm not sure who created this name, but why is the coastal land of south-western Varisia called the Lost Coast? Who lost what?

I put the Lost Coast in there, but I didn't 100% create it. It's "lost" because it's so remote. It's a place that has a lot of ancient history that's been lost, for one thing, but also a place where those who are fed up with urban life to go find a place to get "lost" in the wild.

But the main thing?

Sandpoint is based on my home town of Point Arena. And about an hour north of that, the coastline of California becomes a region known as the Lost Coast, so the PRIMARY reason I called it this is because it's my own little personal nod to the part of the world that I spent the first 18 years of my life in.

As a side note, you can check photos of the terrain of California's Lost Coast to get a perfect idea of what the terrain is like in Golarion's Lost Coast.


According to my memory, there's no mention of cavalry in "Guide to Korvosa", "Magnimar, City of Monuments", "Sandpoint, Light of the Lost Coast". Can I assume that these settlements only have infantry and don't have cavalry at all?

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Aenigma wrote:
According to my memory, there's no mention of cavalry in "Guide to Korvosa", "Magnimar, City of Monuments", "Sandpoint, Light of the Lost Coast". Can I assume that these settlements only have infantry and don't have cavalry at all?

Korvosa has some pretty significant cavalry—the hippogriff-riding Sable Company. Sandpoint has no standing army, just a loosely organized militia. We haven't said much about Magnimar's armed forces, but I suspect they've got a little bit of cavalry.

We don't talk much about it because Pathfinder isn't a mass combat game.

If we ever DO do a robust mass combat ruleset, we'll talk about it then. But since we don't have detailed rules for that stuff (the narrative mass combat we did for Kingmaker and then into Ultimate Campaign doesn't support this level of detail), we don't want to set up false expectations.

So we don't really talk about it. It's not the point of the game we publish.


Many settlements in Varisia are ruled by Magnimar. These settlements, like Sandpoint and Turtleback Ferry, pay tax to Magnimar. Do they send their tax to Magnimar? Or do tax collectors sent from Magnimar go to these settlements and ruthlessly exact money from the townsfolk?

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Aenigma wrote:
Many settlements in Varisia are ruled by Magnimar. These settlements, like Sandpoint and Turtleback Ferry, pay tax to Magnimar. Do they send their tax to Magnimar? Or do tax collectors sent from Magnimar go to these settlements and ruthlessly exact money from the townsfolk?

Tax collectors go gather the taxes on a regular schedule. Each of the smaller holdings gathers tax from the citizens, and then the tax collectors from Magnimar gather the taxes from the person who gathers the taxes in town; tax collectors don't go door-to-door, nor are they "ruthless."

Magnimar is not a cruel overlord. It's pretty chill about its position overall, and the smaller towns that are its holdings mostly abide and are thankful for the protection afforded.

It doesn't always work out nice. See "Feast of Ravensmoor" for an example (that adventure is based on a short story I wrote back in the day... hmmm... maybe I should put it up for sale on Pathfinder Infinite!).


How often do people in Magnimar and its vassal settlements pay tax? Every month? Every year?

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Aenigma wrote:
How often do people in Magnimar and its vassal settlements pay tax? Every month? Every year?

Once a year.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I've run Feast of Ravenmoor, and played it a couple of times -- with each experience being entirely different based on GM, party composition, and luck of the dice.

Even being aware (having played it before) there were still plenty of curve balls and changes for a player (and GM) to enjoy.

How much did the Feast of Ravenmoor module relate to your original writing on the community?

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I've run Feast of Ravenmoor, and played it a couple of times -- with each experience being entirely different based on GM, party composition, and luck of the dice.

Even being aware (having played it before) there were still plenty of curve balls and changes for a player (and GM) to enjoy.

How much did the Feast of Ravenmoor module relate to your original writing on the community?

I was originally going to write the adventure myself, but ended up not having time to do so. Brandon did a great job with it though. I can't recall if I just translated the main points of my story into the outline, sent him a copy of the 5,000 words short story, or both though.

But my original short story is where I invented Ghlaunder, in any event.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

The mention of Ghlaunder just prompted another question tangentially related...

On Golarion there is the Master of Masters (Irori) who achieved perfection -- are there any other deities that aspire to being perfect/believe themselves to be perfect?

Question arises from the fact that Ghlaunder is around because Desna went poking around things and did an 'oops' (sort of).

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


The mention of Ghlaunder just prompted another question tangentially related...

On Golarion there is the Master of Masters (Irori) who achieved perfection -- are there any other deities that aspire to being perfect/believe themselves to be perfect?

Question arises from the fact that Ghlaunder is around because Desna went poking around things and did an 'oops' (sort of).

I suspect there's a fair number of deities who think they're perfect. None of them are. Irori knows that perfection is a goal, not a destination, which sets him apart from other deities who might think of themselves as perfection.

Silver Crusade

Being spooky month, have you seen any good movies recently or have some to look forward to?

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Rysky wrote:
Being spooky month, have you seen any good movies recently or have some to look forward to?

I watch horror movies all year long, so for me, there's not really a spooky "month" as much as a spooky "norm." I do enjoy that there are generally more than normal movies to choose from though.

I just watched "Halloween Kills" last Friday and it was... fine. Not great. Not awful. Very much felt like a middle movie with not much plot going forward, but the soundtrack as I expected it to be, is brilliant and worth the price of the "ticket" (I subscribed to Peacock to see it) itself.

But the best spooky movie I've seen this October is hands down "Masking Threshold," which I saw at the streaming HPL Film Festival. It's still in that festival circuit at the moment but I expect it'll be streaming at some point later this year or next. It's a movie about a guy who suffers from tinnitus and is trying to figure out what's causing it and experimenting on a cure on his own after doctors failed him too many times. The whole movie is done almost like a series of youtube videos about this guy documenting his research and feelings as he goes. Spoiler alert... he's not suffering from tinnitus. It's something more cosmic and scary. It was part of the Lovecraft film festival after all. It's also one of the most harrowing and intense and hard-to-watch at times movies I've seen in a LONG time.

As for looking forward to in the next few weeks... no contest. Been looking forward to seeing "Antlers" for almost two years now. It's one that got delayed numerous times by Covid, so I hope it lives up to the longer-than-expected expectations.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I just read the Robert E Howard short story "Dig me no grave" and was wondering, was the Peacock Spirit in Pathfinder inspired at all by Malik Tous or Melek Tous, referenced in the story (and from real world myth of course)?

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JoelF847 wrote:
I just read the Robert E Howard short story "Dig me no grave" and was wondering, was the Peacock Spirit in Pathfinder inspired at all by Malik Tous or Melek Tous, referenced in the story (and from real world myth of course)?

Wolfgang Baur was the original creator of the Peacock Spirit, and he's for sure familiar with Howard's stories, so it's possible.

What I ended up developing the Peacock Spirit into for Golarion (particularly during the Return of the Runelords Adventure Path) was not based on anything other than my own imagination. Which has been cultivated by a lot of fiction over the years. Including plenty of Howard.


According to the map of the Sandpoint Hinterlands, the farmlands are several miles away from Sandpoint. Does that mean being a farmer is fatal in Sandpoint, since there's a high possibility that one will encounter wild animals, goblins, ogres, stone giants, lamias, demon worshippers, wendigos, orcs, or the Sandpoint Devil on the way?

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Aenigma wrote:
According to the map of the Sandpoint Hinterlands, the farmlands are several miles away from Sandpoint. Does that mean being a farmer is fatal in Sandpoint, since there's a high possibility that one will encounter wild animals, goblins, ogres, stone giants, lamias, demon worshippers, wendigos, orcs, or the Sandpoint Devil on the way?

No. That means that the hinterlands of Sandpoint are pretty safe. Don't assume that every monster we publish in a book is on the wandering monster list for everywhere in the setting. The truly dangerous parts of the hinterlands, including the Devil's Platter, Brinestump, Nettlewood, and Mosswood are regions that farmers generally avoid.

We published wandering monster encounters for the Hinterlands in the Aandpoint book years ago, and of the 5 potential things encountered (the others being bandits, wild animals, goblins, and "GM Secial"), you're 65% likely to instead encounter the 5th thing–patrols from town.

"Wild animals" includes deer and rabbits, by the way, not just rabid bears.

Of the random assortment of monsters you pulled out of Runelords, only wild animals, goblins, and ogre (singular, not plural) even appear on any of these lists.


What is the origin story of Milani and when/where she was born? As far as I can understand, she was once a half-elf mortal but she somehow ascended without passing the test of the Starstone. Are there any published sources where her life is described?

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Courage Mind wrote:
What is the origin story of Milani and when/where she was born? As far as I can understand, she was once a half-elf mortal but she somehow ascended without passing the test of the Starstone. Are there any published sources where her life is described?

Milani is from my homebrew, but she changed a lot when she was brought into Golarion beyond the initial bit I included early on in the pre-Pathfinder RPG era. I'm not that up to speed on how she's changed (for example, I didn't intend to tie her history at all to Aroden, but that happened at some point), so I've pretty much lost track there.

I suppose that the 6 page article about her that appeared in "The Shackled Hut", the 2nd Reign of Winter Adventure Path installment, is the best place to go for her story at this point.

The Starstone is far from the only way that a mortal can become a god. It's the only way that has publicly done so more than once though.


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Is there a “lore bible” for Golarion somewhere at Paizo, or a big map with a bunch of names across the whole world? I’m curious how much is known behind the scenes, and how its made available to folks - or is it more of an informal “read what’s been published” situation?

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keftiu wrote:
Is there a “lore bible” for Golarion somewhere at Paizo, or a big map with a bunch of names across the whole world? I’m curious how much is known behind the scenes, and how its made available to folks - or is it more of an informal “read what’s been published” situation?

There is not.

Silver Crusade

With Poppets released are we going to see any Dinosaur themed ones possibly in future adventures? :3

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Rysky wrote:
With Poppets released are we going to see any Dinosaur themed ones possibly in future adventures? :3

Maybe. Not in any I'm developing at the moment though. Also, it seems to me that poppets work better as PC options, which are, by the design of the game, not really useful for adventures.

Adventures already have and have had that sort of thing available to them for monsters in the form of things like soulbound dolls or homunculi or animated objects or the like.

And on top of that, while I know they exist, I haven't actually read the entry for them so I don't really know what they are or if I'd be interested in doing dinosaur versions in the first place.

There's plenty of other folks at the company who do adventures though, so who can say what they might do?


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What happens to animals when they die? Are they judged by Pharasma? Do they get to evolve into creatures of higher intelligence eventually?

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Courage Mind wrote:
What happens to animals when they die? Are they judged by Pharasma? Do they get to evolve into creatures of higher intelligence eventually?

They're judged, but since they lack sapience, they also lack the ability to take actions beyond their nature, so the "judgment" is mostly just automatic. Animal souls generally just get evenly distributed across reality, I suspect, to become part of the structure rather than becoming a creature.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Courage Mind wrote:
What happens to animals when they die? Are they judged by Pharasma? Do they get to evolve into creatures of higher intelligence eventually?
They're judged, but since they lack sapience, they also lack the ability to take actions beyond their nature, so the "judgment" is mostly just automatic. Animal souls generally just get evenly distributed across reality, I suspect, to become part of the structure rather than becoming a creature.

Does that mean that Ranger, Druidic or other animal companions/beloved pets don't get to spend the afterlife with their partner/friend/owner/owned?


James Jacobs wrote:
Rysky wrote:
With Poppets released are we going to see any Dinosaur themed ones possibly in future adventures? :3

Maybe. Not in any I'm developing at the moment though. Also, it seems to me that poppets work better as PC options, which are, by the design of the game, not really useful for adventures.

Adventures already have and have had that sort of thing available to them for monsters in the form of things like soulbound dolls or homunculi or animated objects or the like.

And on top of that, while I know they exist, I haven't actually read the entry for them so I don't really know what they are or if I'd be interested in doing dinosaur versions in the first place.

There's plenty of other folks at the company who do adventures though, so who can say what they might do?

What is Poppets? Not sure I have heard it before.

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Courage Mind wrote:
What happens to animals when they die? Are they judged by Pharasma? Do they get to evolve into creatures of higher intelligence eventually?
They're judged, but since they lack sapience, they also lack the ability to take actions beyond their nature, so the "judgment" is mostly just automatic. Animal souls generally just get evenly distributed across reality, I suspect, to become part of the structure rather than becoming a creature.

Does that mean that Ranger, Druidic or other animal companions/beloved pets don't get to spend the afterlife with their partner/friend/owner/owned?

There are always exceptions, but unless that animal companion got its Intelligence bumped up so that it becomes sapient, that's what that means.

But also, remember that once you are judged, your memories are wiped and you no longer exist as "YOU." So even if your animal companion is sapient and can make moral and ethical decisions that require judgment... it gets its memory wiped and goes on to its own afterlife. The two of you might end up together but you wouldn't retain memories and would start over.

Death is not intended to be a joyous thing, or a power buff, or something to look forward to in Pathifnder. It's supposed to be scary and sad and unnerving, and to push mortals to live their best lives while they live.

I'm not comfortable with a game system where suicide gets you a more powerful character.

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Aenigma wrote:
What is Poppets? Not sure I have heard it before.

Poppets are a new player ancestry that we invented and introduced in "The Grand Bazaar."

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Courage Mind wrote:
What happens to animals when they die? Are they judged by Pharasma? Do they get to evolve into creatures of higher intelligence eventually?
They're judged, but since they lack sapience, they also lack the ability to take actions beyond their nature, so the "judgment" is mostly just automatic. Animal souls generally just get evenly distributed across reality, I suspect, to become part of the structure rather than becoming a creature.

Does that mean that Ranger, Druidic or other animal companions/beloved pets don't get to spend the afterlife with their partner/friend/owner/owned?

There are always exceptions, but unless that animal companion got its Intelligence bumped up so that it becomes sapient, that's what that means.

That "Intelligence 3" pet bump is thus perhaps crucial for such characters yes? are there any differences in how, metaphysically speaking, the Raise Animal Companion spell works for pets that are just Int 2 and pets that have received the bump to Int 3+?

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
That "Intelligence 3" pet bump is thus perhaps crucial for such characters yes? are there any differences in how, metaphysically speaking, the Raise Animal Companion spell works for pets that are just Int 2 and pets that have received the bump to Int 3+?

Crucial for some, not others. It's a matter of personal taste for the player.

No difference in how bringing an animal companion back to life works though. Regardless of sapience, the time it takes for a soul to get judged is variable, since we don't want to add in arbitrary timers or limitations as to how long you have to restore a dead character or companion to life.

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