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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Are the chain of islands in eastern Okaiyo Ocean that Taiwalei hails from in Pathfinder Society Guide pictured anywhere on the Golarion world map in the Core Rulebook? With Arcadia finally starting to be explored, I was hopeful that region might get some material as well, being in somewhat close vicinity.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Opsylum wrote:
Are the chain of islands in eastern Okaiyo Ocean that Taiwalei hails from in Pathfinder Society Guide pictured anywhere on the Golarion world map in the Core Rulebook? With Arcadia finally starting to be explored, I was hopeful that region might get some material as well, being in somewhat close vicinity.

I have no idea. I wasn't involved with creating that content, so you'd have to ask the developers of the book that information comes from.

Silver Crusade

Why is there a month named after Lamashtu?

Or more precisely, is there an in-setting reason why the Golarion calendar has 11 original deities, 0 deities who ascended from mortality, and 1 ascended demon lord? Or was the calendar created before all the deities' origins were sorted out?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Beroli wrote:

Why is there a month named after Lamashtu?

Or more precisely, is there an in-setting reason why the Golarion calendar has 11 original deities, 0 deities who ascended from mortality, and 1 ascended demon lord? Or was the calendar created before all the deities' origins were sorted out?

Because Lamashtu has a huge influence over the history of the world. Everyone has nightmares, after all.

Of the 12 months we have:

Abadar, Calistria, Pharasma, Gozreh, Desna, Erastil (all deities from the start, or at least deities we've not said too much, as far as I know, about their specific origins)

Sarenrae (a deity from the start, but also an angel from the start—she came into being as both)

Rovagug (an ascended qlippoth)

Aroden and Nethys (both ascended humans)

Lamashtu (an ascended demon)

Zon-Kuthon (a weird enigma who went through a significant transformation from a previous deific incarnation about which we've not said much but may well have been an ascended human)

The calendar was created before some of the origins were sorted out, but after others. But we do have at LEAST two who ascended from mortality. The other big names, particularly Norgorber, Cayden, and Iomedae, came about well after the calendar month names were already well established in-world.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

James, I want to thank you for stepping into the mess today. I really appreciate you, and you're one of the reasons I love this game.

For a question: How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Cori Marie wrote:

James, I want to thank you for stepping into the mess today. I really appreciate you, and you're one of the reasons I love this game.

For a question: How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Stepping publicly, at least. I've been wading through it daily since it started here, trying my best behind the scenes to keep things together in my head, to support my coworkers, and doing what I can to influence management to do the right thing... but in the end, that's not my call. I can only be patient and react to the results when they're known.

But as I mentioned in the other thread, yeah, it's been tough staying quiet. I've been nervous that something I might say might get misunderstood or taken out of context (having seen that very thing happen a few times this week), but at the same time, staying silent starts to make it look like I don't care about the situation.

I do, very much.

I've put close to 40 years of my life into creating some of the content in Golarion, and have spent the past 15 years or so professionally building the game and the setting as part of Paizo, and seeing all of that hard work, to say nothing of the hard work my co-workers and freelancers have put into building Pathfinder, Starfinder, and their settings, get overshadowed in this way feels like having the rug yanked out from under my feet. Feels like nothing that I've worked on trying to build an inclusive setting matters.

The outpouring of support from customers and freelancers for the work that we do on the game has helped me realize that the hard work HASN'T been for nothing, but that doesn't change the fact that there are very real things that need to be addressed.

So as we all work at being patient for a resolution (and we ARE working toward one), I'm as eager as ever to answer questions that I can address.

Like that woodchuck. I've always felt that said woodchuck could chuck about 6 metric cubits of wood an hour. More if it was balsa wood. Less if it was tree monster wood.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

What if the woodchuck was crossed with a Tarrasque?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well since I know the Pantheon in particular is special to you, I thought I'd share this snippet from my upcoming review of Gods & Magic:

"Most often as a player I tend to lean towards the Cleric and Champion classes, things that are undivorcable from in-game religions. This may seem bizarre since I’m agnostic in real life, but the point of the matter is that I think these fictional gods give me more to worship and love than any deity that exists in our day-to-day existence."

So yes, your creations absolutely mean the world to me, and I want to make sure you always know that.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
What if the woodchuck was crossed with a Tarrasque?

It would then chuck PCs, not wood.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Cori Marie wrote:

Well since I know the Pantheon in particular is special to you, I thought I'd share this snippet from my upcoming review of Gods & Magic:

"Most often as a player I tend to lean towards the Cleric and Champion classes, things that are undivorcable from in-game religions. This may seem bizarre since I’m agnostic in real life, but the point of the matter is that I think these fictional gods give me more to worship and love than any deity that exists in our day-to-day existence."

So yes, your creations absolutely mean the world to me, and I want to make sure you always know that.

YAY always delighted to see reviews. And I don't see it as bizarre to be agnostic and to enjoy exploring faith in PCs like that at all, since that's sort of my situation as well.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This discussion about Golarion deities is itching a part of my brain and feel compelled to ask...

Why is it that Golarion deities seem more Not sure if this is a good term? believable(?)/relatable(?) than Greek (or other) Pantheons from Earth mythology?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


This discussion about Golarion deities is itching a part of my brain and feel compelled to ask...

Why is it that Golarion deities seem more Not sure if this is a good term? believable(?)/relatable(?) than Greek (or other) Pantheons from Earth mythology?

My guess is that they're more relatable because many of them were invented by writers who live in the same era as the readers. Golarion may be a fantasy setting that draws a lot of themes from various past historical eras, but a lot of it is informed by modern sensibilities and ideas. In particular for deities I invented, like Desna or Sarenrae or Rovagug or Urgathoa or Norgorber or Erastil, those are to some extent me trying to make sense of things that are more likely to be shared with fellow 20th/21st century folk than, say those that might have concerned someone 2,000 years ago.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Zon-Kuthon (a weird enigma who went through a significant transformation from a previous deific incarnation about which we've not said much but may well have been an ascended human)

Hm. If he was an ascended human, the Pathfinder Wiki is wrong, as it says that Zon-Kuthon is the son of the divine spirit-wolf Thron and an unnamed mother. His half sister Shelyn had the same father; her mother was a goddess of love from whom Shelyn inherited her portfolio.

I suppose Zon-Kuthon's mother might have been human, but he would have been half-divine from the beginning anyway. IAC his earlier incarnation was Dou-Bral, and *he* was around to help imprison Rovagug back in the Age of Creation, at least according to the wiki.

Anyway, question: How would humans have ascended to godhood before the advent of the Starstone?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Ed Reppert wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Zon-Kuthon (a weird enigma who went through a significant transformation from a previous deific incarnation about which we've not said much but may well have been an ascended human)

Hm. If he was an ascended human, the Pathfinder Wiki is wrong, as it says that Zon-Kuthon is the son of the divine spirit-wolf Thron and an unnamed mother. His half sister Shelyn had the same father; her mother was a goddess of love from whom Shelyn inherited her portfolio.

I suppose Zon-Kuthon's mother might have been human, but he would have been half-divine from the beginning anyway. IAC his earlier incarnation was Dou-Bral, and *he* was around to help imprison Rovagug back in the Age of Creation, at least according to the wiki.

Anyway, question: How would humans have ascended to godhood before the advent of the Starstone?

Zon-Kuthon's role in the game is in a weird spot, where he's a deity I created for my homebrew back in the early 90s and have put a lot of work into, but then had a fair amount of work put into by other authors after I "sold" him to Paizo. This is the case for a lot of them, and in some cases that's resulted in things that clash with the original intent of the character.

In my homebrew, he's an ascended human who became an awful monster after exposing himself to the horrors of another dimension—very much inspired in that way by Hellraiser's cenobites, so now and then, my personal 30 years of history working on the character clashes with and gets confused by the 15 or so years of published history about him.

As Dou-Bral, he was for sure around to help lock away Rovagug, so he wasn't a mortal-to-deity success story in Golarion.

As for the question: some examples we've published include:

Irori ascending after completing the path to self perfection.
Urgathoa ascending after becoming the first mortal to break free of the soul cycle to become undead.
Nethys ascending after making an astounding discovery about the nature of magic and the secrets of creation.
Casandalee ascending after having her mind and soul turned into an AI that then ascended to divinity.
Kurgess ascending after impressing other gods through an act of self-sacrifice.
Zyphus asccending after he badmouthed Pharasma after he died a pointless and meaningless death.

There's a lot of examples of a mortal becoming a god in the setting. The Starstone gets the most press though, because it's the most obvious one, and the only one that's really "repeatable."


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Hello James,

I just want to say that as a trans person I really like being able to play characters that are also trans in a world that has inclusivity baked into it. It makes a huge difference to see people like me in things without them being the butt of a joke or a gross stereotype. I look forward to seeing more diversity and inclusivity in the world and stories you all create.

Now for a question - can you rate my cats? Their names are Smudge (a black cat who is super affectionate) & Saucepan (a long hair tortoiseshell who thinks she is a raccoon).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Tender Tendrils wrote:

Hello James,

I just want to say that as a trans person I really like being able to play characters that are also trans in a world that has inclusivity baked into it. It makes a huge difference to see people like me in things without them being the butt of a joke or a gross stereotype. I look forward to seeing more diversity and inclusivity in the world and stories you all create.

Now for a question - can you rate my cats? Their names are Smudge (a black cat who is super affectionate) & Saucepan (a long hair tortoiseshell who thinks she is a raccoon).

Hmmm... I'd rate Smudge as "cattastic" and Saucepan as "categorically catchy."

THAT SAID: I always love hearing about black cats in good homes. So often they end up being the ones that are left behind at shelters, unloved, because of awful superstitions that still linger today.

Silver Crusade

I would adopt all the kitties if I could, Loomis, my black tuxedo cat ended up picking us more or less. Me and my dad went to the pound to find a cat after our previous one got scared by a dog and ran off (I searched for weeks and couldn't find her ;_;), as we were looking at the kittens in the cage meowing at us he jumped and climbed up and stuck his paw out reaching for us. It was decided then and there ^w^

How did you come across Shimmy?


Does Absalom, or any other part of Golarion, have a secret society that worships pugs Shoonies?

Humbly,
Yawar


James Jacobs wrote:
I always love hearing about black cats in good homes. So often they end up being the ones that are left behind at shelters, unloved, because of awful superstitions that still linger today.

Would you rate my cats' name, too? Names are a bit long, because my wife grants them and additional name whenever they pissf her off perform a mighty deed.

They are Bruno Alberto T'Chala Javier Ozuna, Bruce for short, a black cat with green eyes the most social of the bunch kidnapped adopted from a local market; Selina Patricia del Carmen, Selina or Shé-Shé for short, white multicolored back honey eyed; and María Pokacho Fernanda, AKA Pokacho, very furry green-eyed tortoiseshell with a temper. BONUS: pup named Shasha Bichota Carol Grace, pearled Schnauser(ish).


Were the names of the continents of Avistan, Casmaron, and Garund entirely new or was there a specific inspiration/source/etymology for any of them? Was thinking about this because I noticed Avistan is one letter away from Avestan, an ancient Iranian language--I suspect that's a coincidence, but it made me wonder what the origin of those names are.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Rysky wrote:

I would adopt all the kitties if I could, Loomis, my black tuxedo cat ended up picking us more or less. Me and my dad went to the pound to find a cat after our previous one got scared by a dog and ran off (I searched for weeks and couldn't find her ;_;), as we were looking at the kittens in the cage meowing at us he jumped and climbed up and stuck his paw out reaching for us. It was decided then and there ^w^

How did you come across Shimmy?

After my previous cat Pywakit passed away from kidney failure (still miss her!) and after I felt strong enough to get a new kitten, Shimmy was the last cat available at the shelter I went to. Another case of the black cat being left to last, but I saved this one! YAY.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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YawarFiesta wrote:

Does Absalom, or any other part of Golarion, have a secret society that worships pugs Shoonies?

Humbly,
Yawar

Not that I know of or care to spend any time creating, no.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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YawarFiesta wrote:

They are Bruno Alberto T'Chala Javier Ozuna, Bruce for short, a black cat with green eyes the most social of the bunch kidnapped adopted from a local market; Selina Patricia del Carmen, Selina or Shé-Shé for short, white multicolored back honey eyed; and María Pokacho Fernanda, AKA Pokacho, very furry green-eyed tortoiseshell with a temper. BONUS: pup named Shasha Bichota Carol Grace, pearled Schnauser(ish).

Bruce = Catastrophicly Catchy

Selina = Nice Catwoman reference!
Pokacho = and I'm running out of cat puns already but still RAD NAME!

I'm not qualified to rate dog names alas.

Hopefully your pets don't get into too much trouble because yelling their whole names out when you catch them eating toilet paper or peeing on the carpet or scratching the front of the subwoofer will take a lot of time.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Darth Game Master wrote:
Were the names of the continents of Avistan, Casmaron, and Garund entirely new or was there a specific inspiration/source/etymology for any of them? Was thinking about this because I noticed Avistan is one letter away from Avestan, an ancient Iranian language--I suspect that's a coincidence, but it made me wonder what the origin of those names are.

I didn't name any of those continents, so I can't say for sure, but I believe they're all just made-up words. That said... when we make up new words, we DO look to the rules of various languages and how words are constructed and phonetics and all that to make sure the words sound good and feel "real," so in that way there's likely some links to real world stuff... but more because we use English to present those words than out of an always-attempt to hide meanings inside them.


Can necromancers create ghosts (with the create undead ritual/spell or something similar), or are they purely spontaneous creations?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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SOLDIER-1st wrote:
Can necromancers create ghosts (with the create undead ritual/spell or something similar), or are they purely spontaneous creations?

Ghosts are best, story-wise, when they're spontaneous creations. A story about a necromancer figuring out how to force someone to become a ghost would be a great spooky story, though... but the more often that story gets told, the less great it gets.

There's a LOT of other incorporeal creatures you can make as a necromancer that aren't ghosts. Letting ghosts stay out of that general category helps justify their position in the game.


I'm curious to know about the design process behind 1e's "abyssal resurrection" and similar abilities of demigods. Speaking as a DM, I often find myself wanting something like that, so that villains can actually be recurring. At the same time, though, I know it can be incredibly frustrating for a table when something you put in effort to kill just pops back (even if PCs do the same thing all the time). Since I know you helped work on many such high level statblocks, what do you see as the advantages of that sort of ability? Or the ability of monsters to be resurrected in general?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Calliope785 wrote:
I'm curious to know about the design process behind 1e's "abyssal resurrection" and similar abilities of demigods. Speaking as a DM, I often find myself wanting something like that, so that villains can actually be recurring. At the same time, though, I know it can be incredibly frustrating for a table when something you put in effort to kill just pops back (even if PCs do the same thing all the time). Since I know you helped work on many such high level statblocks, what do you see as the advantages of that sort of ability? Or the ability of monsters to be resurrected in general?

The advantage of the ability is specifically in there to build in a level of "These things are so tough you HAVE to kill them twice," rather than to imply that they're the only villains who can come back to get revenge.

I think that if you want to go down the bad guy coming back to life after the PCs defeat them, you have to read your table and determine if your players would welcome that plot twist or be frustrated by it.

By putting those abilities in specifically for demigods, we also manage expectations—it feels less like "cheating" if a GM has a villain come back and there's rules written down about how that works, I guess.

The fact that PCs get to resurrect as often as they need and that same sort of exception isn't really fair for villains is part of the game because campaigns are stronger if they have a through-line of player character, and because the PCs are the protagonists. They get that sort of plot armor because without the PC, the story is incomplete.


Are you planning to, eventually (may take decades, ofc) develop all of Golarion?

I ask because sometimes I like to have a little corner of an established setting for myself, to design or put there whatever I want, while still playing in that world. But I also like to stick to canon. So I don't feel comfortable developing a region in a place that will eventually be fleshed out.

There are some settings where the creators say things like "we won't develop that region, so you can do whatever you feel like there, and published material won't contradict it". The Stolen Lands and Kingmaker are something along those lines.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Finrod Felagund wrote:

Are you planning to, eventually (may take decades, ofc) develop all of Golarion?

I ask because sometimes I like to have a little corner of an established setting for myself, to design or put there whatever I want, while still playing in that world. But I also like to stick to canon. So I don't feel comfortable developing a region in a place that will eventually be fleshed out.

There are some settings where the creators say things like "we won't develop that region, so you can do whatever you feel like there, and published material won't contradict it". The Stolen Lands and Kingmaker are something along those lines.

We will never be able to develop all of Golarion. It's too big to finish in one lifetime.

That said, there's not any place on Golarion we've set aside as a sort of preserve that we'll never develop. The closest to that is probably the continent of Sarusan, which has traditionally been the "We won't say what's here" place, but I can't guarantee that'll stay that way forever.

My take on published settings is that the reason people buy them is to be inspired but also because it is very time consuming creating worlds.

My best advice for someone who likes to stick to canon and isn't comfortable developing an area that might some day be also developed by us is to maybe create a new island of significant size somewhere on the map and use that as your own domain to develop as you wish. We can't change what we don't know about, after all!

The Stolen Lands are an interesting case where we've actually developed that region in EXTENSIVE detail, but the point of that is to set up a sandbox for players to explore and turn into something new. In that regard, any of our adventures set up the same expectation.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
Finrod Felagund wrote:

Are you planning to, eventually (may take decades, ofc) develop all of Golarion?

I ask because sometimes I like to have a little corner of an established setting for myself, to design or put there whatever I want, while still playing in that world. But I also like to stick to canon. So I don't feel comfortable developing a region in a place that will eventually be fleshed out.

There are some settings where the creators say things like "we won't develop that region, so you can do whatever you feel like there, and published material won't contradict it". The Stolen Lands and Kingmaker are something along those lines.

We will never be able to develop all of Golarion. It's too big to finish in one lifetime.

That said, there's not any place on Golarion we've set aside as a sort of preserve that we'll never develop. The closest to that is probably the continent of Sarusan, which has traditionally been the "We won't say what's here" place, but I can't guarantee that'll stay that way forever.

My take on published settings is that the reason people buy them is to be inspired but also because it is very time consuming creating worlds.

My best advice for someone who likes to stick to canon and isn't comfortable developing an area that might some day be also developed by us is to maybe create a new island of significant size somewhere on the map and use that as your own domain to develop as you wish. We can't change what we don't know about, after all!

The Stolen Lands are an interesting case where we've actually developed that region in EXTENSIVE detail, but the point of that is to set up a sandbox for players to explore and turn into something new. In that regard, any of our adventures set up the same expectation.

Very interesting and professional answer James! I've personally always felt that Hermea was such a 'player to develop' place as it was I believe - but don't quote me on that - first thought out by someone that is no longer at Paizo, and I *thought* - again don't quote me on that - that Paizo had no further plans for this island.

But then again, it could be ripe for development at this point, what with the second coming of Pathfinder, and perhaps also as a video game / novel setting.

What are your personal thoughts, feeling and/or plans with Hermea?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Hermea is very well developed at this point; it's story is told throughout the course of the first 2nd edition Adventure Path, "Age of Ashes." It was never meant to be a place set aside for GMs to develop, but a place that had a VERY complicated alignment thing going on that we wanted to take our time to address right rather than to do a slapdash job with it.

As the one who developed and created the origignal storyline to Age of Ashes, that's the best place to go for my take on Hermea.

The short version:

Spoiler:
It's a place run by a dragon who lost his way and drifted away from goodness after a result of being exposed time and time again to how awful humans can be, and his hope to "engineer" a better race of humans that was above awfulness ironically led him toward an as-awful path. The PCs' actions in the adventure path decide if the dragon, Mengkare, is worth redemption or not. Among other things.

Sovereign Court

Very cool development! thank you for the info James - I had no idea it was the focus of an AP!

Will there be a possibility of an Owlcat video game version for this one? I'd say the plot sounds terrific!!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Very cool development! thank you for the info James - I had no idea it was the focus of an AP!

Will there be a possibility of an Owlcat video game version for this one? I'd say the plot sounds terrific!!

There hasn't been any talk yet about the next thing up for Owlcat; they're pretty busy focused on polishing up bugs and prepping for DLC type stuff for Wrath these days.

Sovereign Court

I'm having a blast playing Wrath right now. I just arrived at the point where you need to control armies. I'm a bit confused still but somehow managing to win battles! All my troops (infantry, clerics, hellknights, etc.) are all showing 'unarmed damage' as their weapon... so I think I'm doing something wrong! LOL

Is there a way to change that in your experience or is the army stuff just meant as a separate mini-game with basic/rough representation of the units displayed? how close it this system to the actual Wrath AP mass combat system? (I have never had the chance to get into a Wrath game, and still saving it for a potential future group!)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

I'm having a blast playing Wrath right now. I just arrived at the point where you need to control armies. I'm a bit confused still but somehow managing to win battles! All my troops (infantry, clerics, hellknights, etc.) are all showing 'unarmed damage' as their weapon... so I think I'm doing something wrong! LOL

Is there a way to change that in your experience or is the army stuff just meant as a separate mini-game with basic/rough representation of the units displayed? how close it this system to the actual Wrath AP mass combat system? (I have never had the chance to get into a Wrath game, and still saving it for a potential future group!)

It's VERY different from the mass combat system we did in Wrath. It's meant to be a mini game, more or less. I've just been looking at the numbers as a basic value for their damage and not worrying much more about it. In fact, my key to success with armies is to focus hard on ranged attacks for 2/3 of the army, and the other 1/3 being high-defense tanks, and then getting a general to use tactics and spells to crowd control the enemy.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

I'm having a blast playing Wrath right now. I just arrived at the point where you need to control armies. I'm a bit confused still but somehow managing to win battles! All my troops (infantry, clerics, hellknights, etc.) are all showing 'unarmed damage' as their weapon... so I think I'm doing something wrong! LOL

Is there a way to change that in your experience or is the army stuff just meant as a separate mini-game with basic/rough representation of the units displayed? how close it this system to the actual Wrath AP mass combat system? (I have never had the chance to get into a Wrath game, and still saving it for a potential future group!)

It's VERY different from the mass combat system we did in Wrath. It's meant to be a mini game, more or less. I've just been looking at the numbers as a basic value for their damage and not worrying much more about it. In fact, my key to success with armies is to focus hard on ranged attacks for 2/3 of the army, and the other 1/3 being high-defense tanks, and then getting a general to use tactics and spells to crowd control the enemy.

Do you also make use of the Master of Maneuver power? I used Master of Maneuver I and II on my General to increase the maximum units to 5 and it seems to work well. Do you know if there are other powers to further increase the amount of units in your 'main' army?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Do you also make use of the Master of Maneuver power? I used Master of Maneuver I and II on my General to increase the maximum units to 5 and it seems to work well. Do you know if there are other powers to further increase the amount of units in your 'main' army?

For sure. My main general can now have 6 units, in fact; she's maxed out at 20th level so I don't know if there could be a way to get 7 or more. Yet.


It has been many moons since I've posted a question here, but as I'm a year into running a Wrath of the Righteous game (I may be in the minority but I love mythic), there's a series of questions that've been nagging at the back of my mind all centered around the events of the past that I just can't figure out.

Nearly 300 years before WotR starts, Deskari tried send forces into Sarkoris, led by the Echo of Deskari (which keeps being referred to as his avatar even though from everything I've read it's really just a distinct individual demon with a vague resemblance and complete loyalty). Then while this was happening, a literal god, Aroden, manifested and personally fought off the invasion and drove the Echo into the Lake of Mists and Veils, and this is the part that keeps throwing me.

A god appeared, in the flesh, on Golarion, to personally fight a battle against demons and cultists and a creature that scratches the bottom rungs of nascent demon lord power...and not only was this apparently cosmically OK given that there didn't seem to be any consequences for it (unless him dying 170 years later is somehow connected), it also resulted in the Echo of Deskari...being routed and not instantly obliterated by an impossibly more powerful opponent.

I guess to put these into an easier question format;
1) What was going on with that situation that made it so Aroden didn't start some planar war for interfering so blatantly on the material against a threat that was well within mortal capability to deal with?
2) How did the Echo of Deskari survive the encounter at all?
3) *Why* did Aroden deign to interfere and manifest directly in the first place?
4) If Aroden could get away with *that*, why couldn't Iomedae help out more directly with the Worldwound problem?
5) What exactly is the Echo of Deskari? If it's really Deskari's avatar, what *is* an Avatar in Pathfinder (1e)/Golarion terms?

....bonus 6 I guess) Thinking about it, we also know that it's possible for demigods to kill gods, it's happened before. Gods are, obviously, not statted (a design decision I agree with after 3.5), but the fact that it has happened means they're clearly within striking distance of a dedicated and strong enough demigod, and demigods are within striking distance of a dedicated and strong enough set of mortals, so setting aside the idea of "anything is OK if the GM allows it" do you think it's possible for a group of mythic adventurers to go toe to toe with a god, since history says adventurers can beat demigods and demigods can beat gods?

Scarab Sages

Dear James,

Do you have a favorite WATCHMEN character?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Desril wrote:

1) What was going on with that situation that made it so Aroden didn't start some planar war for interfering so blatantly on the material against a threat that was well within mortal capability to deal with?

2) How did the Echo of Deskari survive the encounter at all?
3) *Why* did Aroden deign to interfere and manifest directly in the first place?
4) If Aroden could get away with *that*, why couldn't Iomedae help out more directly with the Worldwound problem?
5) What exactly is the Echo of Deskari? If it's really Deskari's avatar, what *is* an Avatar in Pathfinder (1e)/Golarion terms?

....bonus 6 I guess) Thinking about it, we also know that it's possible for demigods to kill gods, it's happened before. Gods are, obviously, not statted (a design decision I agree with after 3.5), but the fact that it has happened means they're clearly within striking distance of a dedicated and strong enough demigod, and demigods are within striking distance of a dedicated and strong enough set of mortals, so setting aside the idea of "anything is OK if the GM allows it" do you think it's possible for a group of mythic adventurers to go toe to toe with a god, since history says adventurers can beat demigods and demigods can beat gods?

Going forward please do your best to keep questions tight and short, because the way this website works, it truncates quotes and makes it awkward to reference the question while answering it, forcing me to scroll back and forth or manually copy/paste. It's not a LOT of work, but when I get runs of lots of questions on the thread... it's important to keep things easy and quick for me to reply to.

1) Aroden wasn't quite a full-on deity yet, but also has the arrogance to keep tinkering directly in mortal affairs even while he was doing the long transition between demigod and deity. In my head, Aroden showing up in Sarkoris/Mendev to fight Deskari's avatar happened during that period, and it's the last time he would directly interfere, with the prophecised next appearance never happening, of course. Demigods have stat blocks, and while they're super powerful at the top limit of what can HAVE stat blocks, the fact that they still have stat blocks means they risk a lot when they interact with mortals. Aroden was probably at that cusp, or just over it. Think of it as him overstepping his bounds as a "new hire" I guess?

2) He didn't. He was brought back to life or replaced... not sure if we get into the mechanics of how and when, but his position is analogous to a full deity's herald. If one dies, they can be replaced.

3) Because he had a long, strong tradition of being part of humanity and helping them out—not out of the goodness of his heart (he was lawful neutral) but because of tradition, arrogance, vengeance, and a desire to oppose chaos. Also, the "whys" of why gods do what they do are mysterious more often than not.

4) I'm not so sure that modern Golarion religious scholars would say that Aroden got away with anything. He's dead now, and the thing he tried to stop happened even more disastrously than if he hadn't meddled in the first place. Didn't work out well for Aroden OR Sarkors in the long run.

5) An "avatar" in Pathfinder is a physical manifestation of a deity or demigod on the world. It's not a template or a specific type of thing that has a set of rules governing how to build it. All avatars are unique creatures.

6) Since full deities don't have stat blocks, a storyline where the PCs go toe-to-toe with a deity is something that pretty much has to be custom-built by the GM. As such, that GM can build that story for ANY level or mythic combination, but keep in mind that if you do it once, that genie is out of the bottle in your game as far as your players are concerned. It's a story you can tell once before you fundamentally change how things work in your campaign.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Dear James,

Do you have a favorite WATCHMEN character?

When I first read it back in high-school/college, it was probably Rorschach. Today, re-reading it and realizing he's kind of the bad guy and instigator, I find MUCH less to admire in him. I guess my favorite character is probably Dr. Manhattan, since I really do like how the story explores what an actual superhero with godlike powers would do to impact the world.


James Jacobs wrote:
Gauss wrote:

James, I am not asking if incorporeal => ethereal. I am asking if ethereal => incorporeal. The two statements are different.

Blink states that ethereal creatures are incorporeal. Thus it would seem the incorporeal rules apply...or do they?

Ethereal Jaunt does not state that ethereal creatures are incorporeal.

Thus, either an ethereal creature is incorporeal..or it isnt depending on the spell you look at. The paragraph on page 440 regarding The ethereal plane is silent on the matter.

The problem is: From the material plane what spells, abilities, weapons affect ethereal creatures and where are the rules for this?

Respectfully, Gauss

Pretty much nothing but gaze attacks can cross that barrier between planes (And even then... gaze attacks can't affect Material Plane creatures when the source is on the Ethereal). You have to actually travel to the other plane to affect the other target.

In previous editions of D&D, there was a lot of bleedover between incorporeal and ethereal. In fact... in 2nd edition and earlier, there really WASN'T an "incorporeal" state—it was always ethereal.

In Pathfinder, we've attempted to draw a hard line between the two states, but there are places where the old language still bleeds through. Blink is one of those cases.

So, bleed over from old wording is established, and the attempt to reclarify was mentioned, but I still don't see a clarification on whether or not Blink qualifies you as Incorporeal. Does it? If I cast blink on my character, will I gain the Incorporeal subtype for as long as the spell lasts? Or is it such a quick occurrence from the blinking back and forth, that the Incorporeal effect isn't useable?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Mephistopholoid wrote:
So, bleed over from old wording is established, and the attempt to reclarify was mentioned, but I still don't see a clarification on whether or not Blink qualifies you as Incorporeal. Does it? If I cast blink on my character, will I gain the Incorporeal subtype for as long as the spell lasts? Or is it such a quick occurrence from the blinking back and forth, that the Incorporeal effect isn't useable?

Dunno what rules system you're talking about now, but I don't answer rules questions here anymore. Never really did, since it tended to cause more problems than it solved.


Do you have an ownership stake in Paizo?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Kelseus wrote:
Do you have an ownership stake in Paizo?

I don't.


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Do you have any (obviously not "official") thoughts on how Droon is governed? Is there a big T-Rex making all the rules?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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keftiu wrote:
Do you have any (obviously not "official") thoughts on how Droon is governed? Is there a big T-Rex making all the rules?

Haven't thought of much yet. Unlike several other nations and regions, Droon isn't something I exported out of my homebrew. Apart from the nation likely being Neutral overall (since that's the classic lizardfolk alignment), haven't done much thinking on it, other than that it's ruled by lizardfolk, not by dinosaurs. Chances are better than good that I won't be directly involved in exploring Droon when/if we do more though, so how it gets developed in the end? Your guess is as good as mine at this point, assuming you're starting with the tiny bit about it we've published.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

How you feeling about a Red Mantis adventure finally getting out the door?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Cori Marie wrote:
How you feeling about a Red Mantis adventure finally getting out the door?

I've got very little to do with it other than giving a little bit of advice a few months ago. I hope folks like it, because if they do that'll make it easier for me to get the much larger Red Mantis thing I'd like to do greenlit.

But at the moment, since I've got so little to do with the one-shot adventure, I guess I'm feeling curious as to how it'll look when it's done.

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