It seems to me you want the pro-psionics camp to not only sit back whiles lies* are spread, but when opinions come up we are not allowed to try to understand your opinions either?So now anyone who disagrees with you is a liar? And you wonder why people finger you as being a troll?
I can assure you that my opinions on psionics are honestly my opinions and I'm not lying about them for some twisted diabolical purpose.
*I am sure someone was not paying attention so I will repeat myself. Lies/Misinformation refers to things that can factually be proven to be wrong based on the rules not fluff issues.Which is a nice way to coach a really insulting statement with a 'back door' so you can deny it applies to anyone in particular. You even have the definition of lying wrong.
Ogre there is a * by the word lies.
If you read the rest of my post you would see another *. Connect the dots. Disagreeing with me does not make you a liar.
Lies/Misinformation does not mean lies=misinformation it means lies or misinformation. I guess I have to explain everything in detail now.
You do know that golarion as a setting has spaceships, robots, stargates, aliens, guns, etc? Elves are aliens, btw. So tell me sci fi doesn't blend with golarion.
I don't have a problem saying "no" to that either. I don't feel that those are very important parts of the setting so ignoring them is not a problem.
Honestly, I don't really see a problem with this.
And I don't really see a problem with saying "no" to psionics. If its my table, I can run it as I see fit. YMMV. Psionics do not exist at my table.
3. No AoOThis is a big one. They can use their powers in melee. This makes them outclass casters in every way. Not only can they use their bigger stuff more times a day, it doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity to "manifest" it? Alright, find the man who designed this and feed him to the fire ants.
4. No overlap with spellcasters
This made psionics feel like a giant leech on the side of D&D. First, it DEMANDS that you allow all this new stuff, learn these new rules, then hey, you want to stop the psion for an encounter? You ahve to throw out a crystal golem, because regular golems still get hurt by psionics.
None of this is true, but hopefully Dabbler will address these issues in detail once I finish the list
Wow ... a lot of posts, but not many helpful in the last fifty, so I'm taking the responses so far (well, the ones that answered my questions anyway) and starting to compile them into some kind of coherent form I can address. I'll start some other threads to work on answers to issues, but I have to say I am impressed with the number of people who wanted to contribute positively - thank you, all of you, for your time and attention.
I'll also be starting a thread on what the psionic-lovers like most about the system. After all, if a psionics system is written for Pathfinder I'm sure one of the goals is to attract the players that liked the 3.5 system, as well as the ones that didn't.
Thanks again to you all.
Wow ... a lot of posts, but not many helpful in the last fifty, so I'm taking the responses so far (well, the ones that answered my questions anyway) and starting to compile them into some kind of coherent form I can address. I'll start some other threads to work on answers to issues, but I have to say I am impressed with the number of people who wanted to contribute positively - thank you, all of you, for your time and attention.
I'll also be starting a thread on what the psionic-lovers like most about the system. After all, if a psionics system is written for Pathfinder I'm sure one of the goals is to attract the players that liked the 3.5 system, as well as the ones that didn't.
Thanks again to you all.
Sorry about the threadjack. I will be getting the list to you. I have already started on it.
3. No AoO
4. No overlap with spellcasters
For the record, both manifesting a psionic power and gaining psionic focus provoke attacks of opportunity. Also, the default assumption is the magic/psionics transparency which states that SR=PR and the like, therefore regular golems would be immune to any psionic power that allowed resistance. That was the standard rule since the XPH was released.
-Your friendly neighborhood troll.
Well, this is the internet, and it is a subject some people are passionate about (on both sides) so hey, it happens, let's all just live and learn. Speaking of learning, the next thread up is here for anyone that wants to let me know what about psionics they LIKED.
If you're talking about that thing where you have to spend PSP to create a mind link, then additional PSP to generate an effect along with the link, with additional PSP to maintain that effect each round/minute... I'm not so sure it was overpowered if it was actually played RAW.
It's not, and it becomes much less overpowered when edited to make more sense than the RAW did. PSPs get spent very quickly if you decide to fire off or maintain a lot of powers at one time ('nova' as some are calling it). One of my players was always complaining about how quickly PSPs were spent. PSP recovery isn't easy either, nor should it be. PSPs might not be recoverable at all except through rest like everyone else (remove Rejuvenation). It all depends on how you structure it.
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Sorry about the threadjack. I will be getting the list to you. I have already started on it.Wow ... a lot of posts, but not many helpful in the last fifty, so I'm taking the responses so far (well, the ones that answered my questions anyway) and starting to compile them into some kind of coherent form I can address. I'll start some other threads to work on answers to issues, but I have to say I am impressed with the number of people who wanted to contribute positively - thank you, all of you, for your time and attention.
I'll also be starting a thread on what the psionic-lovers like most about the system. After all, if a psionics system is written for Pathfinder I'm sure one of the goals is to attract the players that liked the 3.5 system, as well as the ones that didn't.
Thanks again to you all.
You realize you're killing Dabbler with your help right? :)
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP HELPING!
Dabbler, I would like to add a couple:
Psion gets ~ as many spells as a wizard at their levels but casts spontaneously
Autohipnosis was annoying.
As I mentioned earlier, the prioblem with psions not having a niche is one squared with wizards, not psions.
When wizards are literally given just about every spell or power that can exist, there are no niches for anyone. Honestly, when you look at warmage or beguiler, they're just more specialized wizards. There are no niches when arcane magic is given everything.
So my question to you is: what kind of niche can psions have? Arcane casters already have telepathy, mind control, telekinesis, and all forms of shapeshifting.
Okay folks. I know the topic of psionics is heavy and painful, mainly because it splits the room like a debate on abortion, religion, metal/heavy metal, rap, same-sex marriage, and edition wars.
That said...here are my two cents on the issue.
My first exposure to psionics was the Complete Psionics Handbook I had my mother buy when I was in High School. She was against it for some reason, but as I flipped through it I noticed a lot of cool powers linked up to a workable point system. Moreover, I then discovered the Dark Sun setting and got even more excited, and could not picture one without the other.
Of course, this eventually lead to a problem where I didn't like psionics outside of Dark Sun.
Despite the allure of a point based system for magic-like powers that dances so seductively on the edge of a MP system for D&D, I just couldn't cotton to it outside of that blasted world. I'd seen psionic characters in my beloved Ansalon, Crystal Spheres, Sigil, and Greyhawk, and each time I just kept wanting to see them in Athas. TSR had created a wonderful, beautiful monster in that setting- all the familiar things turned on its ear and one completely new(well, sorta kinda) mechanic to really help it stand out.
So when it comes to psionics in general in any D&D type setting, even Golarion, that's my rub. I've never found it too sci-fi, I've always found it too Athasian.
My own personal issues notwithstanding, I still don't like most psionics I come across for a few reasons.
With respect to the 3.x system, I think the bulk of my dislike is because I didn't care for the psionics book. As an above poster mentioned, it felt very much like they were trying to fill up space with some of the feats and abilities, which came off as psionic/"special" versions of feats or abilities that already existed. I had never really equated psionics with magic due to my Athasian leanings, but some of the powers in there made me think twice. I also had a problem with the plethora of psionic classes/prestige classes, many of which felt like filler in a lot of ways. This isn't to say that they were bad classes or anything like that, but many of them seemed one-note or to address a VERY specific need, which I guess was the point when I stop to look at many of the prestige classes and new base classes that came out around the same time. That, mixed with my poor experiences with zealous players who did indeed try to play a psionic character as a wizard/magician that "worked"(whether by that term they meant one that relied on a more stable magic point system instead of vancian magic, could do more DPS, or had a better hit die varied depending on the individual), ended up turning me off to 3.x psionics in general. 2nd ed psionics were far, far from perfect, of course as there were a lot of easily exploitable powers as well as a separate and confusing rock paper scissors mechanic for psionic combat(I enjoyed it, but still) that took up a lot of time, but I still can't shake the feeling that the psionic classes for 3.x were created simply to sell the psionic book, not necessarily to introduce a new class to the setting. I think that's the problem I have with the vast majority of the "new" base classes(3.x that is, not Pathfinder, although I do look at a couple of them sideways due to bad experiences in the past with similar ideas/overzealous players)- a lot of them were made not to make the game itself more interesting, but to address a specific, even nit-picky, complaint, problem or issue and simultaneously turn a profit; not that I'm necessarily anti-profit. I do think think that a magic point system similiar to the psionicist but made for the sorcerer all the way back from 3.0 would have resulted in less headache and controversy for the idea.
So my question to you is: what kind of niche can psions have? Arcane casters already have telepathy, mind control, telekinesis, and all forms of shapeshifting.
Here, I'm all for psions being powerful. I'm all for them being the best enchanters in the game (even better than sorcerers). I'm all for them getting telepathy and such earlier and doing it better. I see no problem with a psion being able to use the equivalent of mass charm person at a much lower level.
In 1e exalted, there are 2 kinds of magic: sorcery and necromancy (we'll ignore charms and martial arts and so forth). When sorcery can create an undead, necromancy can create a powerful undead. When sorcery can create a powerful undead, necromancy can create an army of undead to lead into mass combat.
IMO, psions should be like witches. Much more focused list of "spells" but let them be more powerful than the arcane casters in that sense. Making a psion a true master of the mind (and not a power point wizard) is a good thing. YMMV.
Sorry about the threadjack. I will be getting the list to you. I have already started on it.Wow ... a lot of posts, but not many helpful in the last fifty, so I'm taking the responses so far (well, the ones that answered my questions anyway) and starting to compile them into some kind of coherent form I can address. I'll start some other threads to work on answers to issues, but I have to say I am impressed with the number of people who wanted to contribute positively - thank you, all of you, for your time and attention.
I'll also be starting a thread on what the psionic-lovers like most about the system. After all, if a psionics system is written for Pathfinder I'm sure one of the goals is to attract the players that liked the 3.5 system, as well as the ones that didn't.
Thanks again to you all.
You realize you're killing Dabbler with your help right? :)
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP HELPING!
How?
OMG I cant believe I have to repeat this: Every psionics thread for the past few years including 2010 has the same thing. Guess what the next 10 will have? If you guess the same thing you are correct. He can go through another long drawn out point-counterpoint session or have the information compiled for him.Would you like to tell me the drawback to my idea?
Lies/Misinformation does not mean lies=misinformation it means lies or misinformation. I guess I have to explain everything in detail now.Whether you put a silly comment in there or not words have meanings. Coaching insults by transparently redefining terms IS... still insulting.
..but you assumed I was trying to insult people or at least that is how you came off.
I have clarified my point, not much else I can do besides that.
My dislike of the 3.5 psionics system stemmed from 3 places.
1. I really liked the style of the Complete Psionics system in 2nd Ed. By comparison, the 3.5 system always felt like it was a wizard using power points with all the spells renamed. There wasn't enough differentiation.
2. By making psionics optional, it has always felt bolted on. The work is on the DM to integrate the system into their campaign world. Drop a psion into a Dragonlance campaign. They just feel so out of place unless the DM goes through a lot of trouble to make them fit in. When you combine this with reason #1 I have always felt that psionics just wasn't worth the trouble.
3. The only psion I have played alongside was played by a person I really didn't care for. He was a chaotic stupid type who spent most of his trying using his powers to screw with the rest of the party. That kinda tainted the system for me.
So my question to you is: what kind of niche can psions have? Arcane casters already have telepathy, mind control, telekinesis, and all forms of shapeshifting.Here, I'm all for psions being powerful. I'm all for them being the best enchanters in the game (even better than sorcerers). I'm all for them getting telepathy and such earlier and doing it better. I see no problem with a psion being able to use the equivalent of mass charm person at a much lower level.
In 1e exalted, there are 2 kinds of magic: sorcery and necromancy (we'll ignore charms and martial arts and so forth). When sorcery can create an undead, necromancy can create a powerful undead. When sorcery can create a powerful undead, necromancy can create an army of undead to lead into mass combat.
IMO, psions should be like witches. Much more focused list of "spells" but let them be more powerful than the arcane casters in that sense. Making a psion a true master of the mind (and not a power point wizard) is a good thing. YMMV.
My thoughts exactly. The psion should not be just as broad in scope as a wizard and of roughly equal power. He should be a specialist in whatever he focuses on and not have much else.
The telekinetic should be amasing at TK, not just mediocre like the wizard, who can't even do anything really significant until 5th level spells, and then is still pretty limmitted. I mean, they get nothing between mage hand and telekinesis except levitate. How about the ability control dozens of weapons, and have them each fighting for you. How about the ability to hit someone with a thrown rock? Saga Edition star wars has dozens of different TK abilities that could be incoporated into a full class.
Sure, the wizard gets some charms, but there are so many other ways of altering people's minds that can be incorporated into a game for a telepath. Really, the wizard just begins to scratch the surface of what should be possible. For the telepath, you should be able to permanently alter people's memories, perceptions, thoughts, and not just dominate them. Domination is childs play to a properly implanted mental trigger on a contingency that creates a sleeper agent. The tellepath should be able to convince the vampire that playing in the sun is fun, and implant memories of all the times he has. A telepath should be able to convince you that you are on fire, or plant a dirrective in your mind so powerful you can't do anything else. The curse at the end of the Wolverine movie (probably the best part of the movie) is perfect.
As for metabolic psionics, I think it is pretty well covered by the monk. Perhaps expanding Ki powers to include some spell-like abilities or some of the psionic feats, like turning on a charge or running up walls.
And all of these characters should be limmitted in what they do. You should not be able to have someone who can move things with his mind and breach other people's minds without paying a premium, like multiclassing, for the ability.
I think this thread shows the difficulties that Paizo (or anyone else for that matter!) is going to have in making a version of Psionics for PFRPG. Maybe I'm just in a pessimistic frame of mind, but every option seems a bit tricky in terms of the balance between risk and reward. I've provided my thoughts on the various possibilities as I see them below. It's only related through a tangent and contains my own self-indulgent ramblings, thus I've put it in spoilers so people don't have to wade through it!
** spoiler omitted **...
As it currently stands, 1 or 4 would suite me fine and perhaps be the best options; after all DSP are working on a Pathfinder project that could easily be adopted and will be supported by them. 3 ... If they changes the system that much, I would not be happy because it would not be backward compatible.
That said, I am very interested in seeing what happens with Ultimate Magic. How different will the new system be? How will they deal with it in the flagship AP line? How will it be supported?
When we see the answers to that, we'll know how things could go with psionics.
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My only problem with psionics as a system is that it is completely separated from magic. For example, spell resistance doesn't help against psionic powers, et cetera.
If any of my players were even interested in psionics (never had one who asked) I'd allow them, but would treat all psionics as magic for purposes of save bonuses, SR, identifying powers would use spellcraft, et cetera.
The nova problem is something I recognize, but I think that's something that each GM should deal with. My method would be to find ways to ensure that groups face multiple encounters per day and implementing circumstances that prevent the 15-minute adventuring day. Not every day, but on the days that really matter.
I removed a few posts that went outside the bounds of good taste.
My only problem with psionics as a system is that it is completely separated from magic. For example, spell resistance doesn't help against psionic powers, et cetera.
Again, not your fault but this is a common misconception. The default of 3.5 psionics is that they are equal. SR=PR, etc.
My only problem with psionics as a system is that it is completely separated from magic. For example, spell resistance doesn't help against psionic powers, et cetera.Again, not your fault but this is a common misconception. The default of 3.5 psionics is that they are equal. SR=PR, etc.
Just about every psionic enthusiast player I have ever played with has argued against that default, though.
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My only problem with psionics as a system is that it is completely separated from magic. For example, spell resistance doesn't help against psionic powers, et cetera.Again, not your fault but this is a common misconception. The default of 3.5 psionics is that they are equal. SR=PR, etc.
Yes and if the psionic fans would just accept that default and not keep bring up the optional transparency scaling rules I wouldn't really have any issues with psionics. But they don't. That stupid optional rule and the arguments it brings means psionics stays banned in my games (at least until I am no longer highly annoyed...this thread really didn't help this matter).
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LOL. If psionics ever do reappear in my games, I'm totally creating a psionic troll.
I ... I might reintroduce psionics into my game JUST so my players can fight a psionic troll. I won't let the players have psionics. I just want them to fight a psionic troll...
...possibly armed with some sort of lightsaber-type device....
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Mothman just said anyone that does not like psionics is wrong. I hope he does not try to correct me later on this.Honestly...the attitude of most of the pro-psionics posters in the thread has made me consider not even paying attention to this thread anymore. Dabbler asked those of us who have had issues what they were, and I can respect that. Heck, I'd love to see psionics done in a way that I actually like! However, effectively ranting at those of us who don't like it (or me, anyway) doesn't help. Just pointing it out.So what should we do when something is incorrect? I mean something such as a belief with how the rules work which can be proven to be factually incorrect.You mean someone is wrong? On the internet???
I wouldn’t dream of it, I think what I said is quite obvious.
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I don’t dislike psionics as such, but what I dislike about how psionics has been presented in previous versions of D&D (specifically 2nd and 3.5 with which I am most familiar) is that they have been presented in a separate book, usually published some time after the core rules, and they require a new system to be learnt (not necessarily a difficult system, or one greatly different to systems in the core rules, but new nevertheless).
I also dislike how at times past newly introduced psionics rules have interacted with established settings (published and homebrewed) that have never had a strongly established presence of psionics. It often feels very tacked on, or poorly explained.
My thoughts exactly. The psion should not be just as broad in scope as a wizard and of roughly equal power. He should be a specialist in whatever he focuses on and not have much else.
The telekinetic should be amasing at TK, not just mediocre like the wizard, who can't even do anything really significant until 5th level spells, and then is still pretty limmitted. I mean, they get nothing between mage hand and telekinesis except levitate. How about the ability control dozens of weapons, and have them each fighting for you. How about the ability to hit someone with a thrown rock? Saga Edition star wars has dozens of different TK abilities that could be incoporated into a full class.Sure, the wizard gets some charms, but there are so many other ways of altering people's minds that can be incorporated into a game for a telepath. Really, the wizard just begins to scratch the surface of what should be possible. For the telepath, you should be able to permanently alter people's memories, perceptions, thoughts, and not just dominate them. Domination is childs play to a properly implanted mental trigger on a contingency that creates a sleeper agent. The tellepath should be able to convince the vampire that playing in the sun is fun, and implant memories of all the times he has. A telepath should be able to convince you that you are on fire, or plant a dirrective in your mind so powerful you can't do anything else. The curse at the end of the Wolverine movie (probably the best part of the movie) is perfect.
As for metabolic psionics, I think it is pretty well covered by the monk. Perhaps expanding Ki powers to include some spell-like abilities or some of the psionic feats, like turning on a charge or running up walls.
And all of these characters should be limmitted in what they do. You should not be able to have someone who can move things with his mind and breach other people's minds without paying a premium, like multiclassing, for the ability.
This I could get behind.
Psionics. Ugly ugly stuff.
My issue with psionics is not the psionics itself. It is the fact that it is a annoying back door attempt to rewrite the system without having to rewrite the system.
Usually most psionic systems are:
1) A psionics system
2) Mana system
3) Not different enough so they decide: lets make everything over again but... "NEW. Now with 100% more Psi!!!"
Now to address these:
1) Psionics = Mind Magic (all good)
2) Mana system...
If your going to add it as an option add it as an option. Mana system for psionics? Great make it available for all other casters too. Otherwise stick to making it vancian magic.
3) To use an analogy... have the "psionics" door open into the same building as the other magic systems, not into a different one. Same terms, same overlap, etc.
The issue is rarely the psionics itself but what they try to bundle in with it. Thats my opinion at least.
Most Psionic enthusiast players I have played with have gone into the game under the basic assumption that Psionics can and should bypass SR, Dispel Magic, Antimagic Fields and every other counter that works against magic, under the argument that "it's not magic". Basically, they want magic that no one has any defense against.NOTE: I'm not saying every psionics enthusiast is like that, but the majority that I have played with have seemed that way.
I think those are less Psionic enthusiast than Munchkins as they want to break the rules and be overpowered.
A true enthusiast likes Psionics as written (balanced compared to magic). So you have defenses vs psionics.
Dabbler, I would like to add a couple:
Psion gets ~ as many spells as a wizard at their levels but casts spontaneously
Buh-wha? *Headdesk.*
The Psion gets fewer spells than a Sorcerer. They get 36 powers at level 20 to a Sorcerer's 43. And researching new powers cannot break that cap (making its actual purpose unclear).
So my question to you is: what kind of niche can psions have? Arcane casters already have telepathy, mind control, telekinesis, and all forms of shapeshifting.
Is being an arcanist that's coherently designed and isn't world-shakingly broken a niche?
2. By making psionics optional, it has always felt bolted on. The work is on the DM to integrate the system into their campaign world. Drop a psion into a Dragonlance campaign. They just feel so out of place unless the DM goes through a lot of trouble to make them fit in. When you combine this with reason #1 I have always felt that psionics just wasn't worth the trouble.
How is it possible to have trouble integrating an invisible game mechanic into a world without concept of game mechanics?
You don't integrate classes and mechanics. You integrate characters and organizations. A Psion character can easily be a wizard classic or a shaman or a yogi or any number of things that require little real effort and don't detract from the world. Psionics is magic, after all.
Just about every psionic enthusiast player I have ever played with has argued against that default, though.
Whereas I've never met a single person who argued against it, and the only time I've ever seen the "psionics are different" rule come into play was at the behest of the DM.
But "psionics is magic" is, quite clearly, the default rule.
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I think those are less Psionic enthusiast than Munchkins as they want to break the rules and be overpowered.A true enthusiast likes Psionics as written (balanced compared to magic). So you have defenses vs psionics.
Well then I have never met a true enthusiast...but the key isn´t that they are breaking a rule...they are insisting on an optional rule. That stupid optional rule that really shouldn´t even exist. Like I said, no issue with psionics (well any more then magic balance issues)...other then the bloody optional rule.
Well then I have never met a true enthusiast...but the key isn´t that they are breaking a rule...they are insisting on an optional rule. That stupid optional rule that really shouldn´t even exist. Like I said, no issue with psionics (well any more then magic balance issues)...other then the bloody optional rule.
I think those are less Psionic enthusiast than Munchkins as they want to break the rules and be overpowered.A true enthusiast likes Psionics as written (balanced compared to magic). So you have defenses vs psionics.
I agree they should be different. I always house rule it in the Realms that they are different (3.5 PGtF stated that they are one in the same - pg.172)
I recall how they offered the variant for creatures with Spell Resistance to be given Power Resistance. It was calculated at the creature's SR - 10.
That variant rules seems to make Psionics inherently more powerful than magic. Is that the effect that you desire?
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I like psionics, but like 90% of DMs I talk to do not.
Top 3 reasons given for disallowing psionics:
They don't want to learn a whole new system, even if it's 90% similar to the magic system they already know ('If it's so similar, why not just use magic?' sigh.)
They let someone play a psion once and they were a total munchkin taking advantage of the DM not having mastered the psionics (or perhaps in general) rules -- therefore they want nothing more to do with psionics.
They don't like the fluff of mind-powers and can't see how it would fit into their setting. ('Look, I just like the point system and some of the powers, can I reflavor it as magic?' 'Just play a mage already!' sigh.)
Occasionally I hear 'I don't have the rulebooks' from someone who doesn't know about the SRD, but upon being told about said SRD they fall back to one of the excuses above.
Surprisingly only very rarely do I hear "Well I tried psionics back in 1st/2nd/3.0 and it was broken" or a misconception that psionics-magic transparency isn't the default assumption.
I hate psionics because psions are automatically immune to magic and all weapons and can't die, and because they require you to use the expanded Star Wars setting, and because of that rule that says a 1st level psion can cast meteor swarm at will, and because all psions drive Impalas with chrome spinners.
In other words, I actually have nothing against psionics as presented in the 3.5 System Reference Document, so I'll shut up now.
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I like psionics, but like 90% of DMs I talk to do not.
Top 3 reasons given for disallowing psionics:
They don't want to learn a whole new system, even if it's 90% similar to the magic system they already know ('If it's so similar, why not just use magic?' sigh.)
They let someone play a psion once and they were a total munchkin taking advantage of the DM not having mastered the psionics (or perhaps in general) rules -- therefore they want nothing more to do with psionics.
They don't like the fluff of mind-powers and can't see how it would fit into their setting. ('Look, I just like the point system and some of the powers, can I reflavor it as magic?' 'Just play a mage already!' sigh.)
Occasionally I hear 'I don't have the rulebooks' from someone who doesn't know about the SRD, but upon being told about said SRD they fall back to one of the excuses above.
Surprisingly only very rarely do I hear "Well I tried psionics back in 1st/2nd/3.0 and it was broken" or a misconception that psionics-magic transparency isn't the default assumption.
Agreed and seconded. I like psionics too and pretty much have to go through the same above as well as hearing the same things said avbout it. Along with "psions are broken they can nova!". Being able to nova makes them so "powerful" yet they ignore that a Psion who does that runs out of points to pretty much do anything else unless he can rest.
I hate psionics because psions are automatically immune to magic and all weapons and can't die, and because they require you to use the expanded Star Wars setting, and because of that rule that says a 1st level psion can cast meteor swarm at will, and because all psions drive Impalas with chrome spinners.
Psionics and their damned spinning rims! They just don't stop SPINNING!
I never understood why game developers strive to make psionics distinct and seperate from magic. The flavor is available to make it unique, without creating seperate mechanics. I don't like psionics in D&D, GURPS, and related systems when it uses a different mechanic.
There are enough differences (flavor) between power sources for arcane, divine, psionic, yada, yada, that one system to handle them all should be attainable.
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There are enough differences (flavor) between power sources for arcane, divine, psionic, yada, yada, that one system to handle them all should be attainable.
I just wanted to say the same thing. A cleric (a healer of a god) has the same system as a wizard (a heathen killing people with mathematics) as does every other casting class and everyone's okay with that. But a psionic (futuristic crystal-obsessed jedi mind controller) suddenly needs a completely different system because otherwise it's "oh no! he's the same as wizard but with different spells!"