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I had created a nice background for a new character, which would have precluded his being part of a faction. My GM said that not being part of a faction was a very bad idea, because of the importance of gathering prestige. Now I have to try to think up a new background.
For that matter, I don't know how reporting events works. Can it even be done for a character with no faction?
(I really liked the story I had, too. He came from a land very far away from Absalom. The Order of the Grey Willow - he is a monk - had heard tales of the Pathfinder Society and sent him to investigate.)
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I think there is a case here for following the spirit and intent of the rules. The very purpose of pre-gen characters is to make it easier for new players - who may not even have held a Core Rulebook in their hands before - participate in a game with minimum delay for others at the table.
Enforcing a re-equip, denying them faction points for their very first game, and some of the other points you raised - someone already familiar with organised play might roll with the blows, but new players are often already bewildered and overwhelmed by the system - getting all rules lawyer on them for ideological purpose is not going to endear them to the game.
By all means, assist them to learn and play by the system. But your role as GM is also to encourage new players and ensure everyone has a positive experience of Organised Play.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
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I had created a nice background for a new character, which would have precluded his being part of a faction. My GM said that not being part of a faction was a very bad idea, because of the importance of gathering prestige. Now I have to try to think up a new background.
For that matter, I don't know how reporting events works. Can it even be done for a character with no faction?
(I really liked the story I had, too. He came from a land very far away from Absalom. The Order of the Grey Willow - he is a monk - had heard tales of the Pathfinder Society and sent him to investigate.)
Well you have your reason for joining right there - investigating and learninng about the Society, you're undoubtedly going to encounter factions along the way. Maybe a faction recruited you with the promise of getting you into the Society. Maybe your investigations into the Society have lead you to investigate one of the factions. Maybe to further your monk training, you're introduced to a monk school containing faction members, or you're spreading your school techniques to monks from one of the factions. You don't have to be from the nation of your chosen faction -there are many other incentives to pursue one of the five factions.
So looking at the various factions, since I have to choose one...
Cheliax are basically the "bad guys" while Andoran are the "good guys", right?
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So looking at the various factions, since I have to choose one...
Cheliax are basically the "bad guys" while Andoran are the "good guys", right?
Andorans often wind up freeing slaves and helping establish contacts for their underground anti-slavery operations. I don't think it's simple cut and dried good/ bad though.
So looking at the various factions, since I have to choose one...
Cheliax are basically the "bad guys" while Andoran are the "good guys", right?
On a very basic level, yes, but only because of Cheliax's current government and it's interaction with Asmodeus and his hordes. But any faction is playable for any class, you just may have to skip the occasional faction mission if it goes against your beliefs. Also remember that choosing Cheliax does not give you leeway to break the "no evil characters" rules of the PFS, nor allow you to act evilly without having an evil alignment.
Once the re-equip is done, and a faction is decided on, you're playing a "real" character and getting full credit. But it's either-or. I don't let people use the actual pregens as-is AND get credit.
But you are supposed to. The decision to keep a pregen and make it into that player's own character is not to be done til after the scenario is over and the player decides they want to keep it. From page 21 of the Guide:
For example, if a new player comes to your table and starts by playing the iconic wizard Ezren, she can gain a chronicle sheet for that scenario (if she desires) and then continue play with that character in another scenario. In order to do so, however, she needs to “file off the serial numbers” from the pregenerated character—change the name, select two traits, choose a faction, and register the character on paizo.com/pathfindersociety (or receive a registration card at the table)—before she can continue to play the pregenerated character as a fully-functioning character in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
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But you are supposed to. The decision to keep a pregen and make it into that player's own character is not to be done til after the scenario is over and the player decides they want to keep it.
As others have said, I think we need to keep in the spirit of the society and do whatever we can to promote the new player to want to stay. An argument can be made that even a pregen can pick a faction since it is the first task in character creation. It really only takes a few minutes to explain the essence of each faction for the player to understand the basics.
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Yes, the fact that the pre-gens get equipment, and I'm also pretty sure GP totals, that are different from what actual Society characters get bothers me tremendously. I'll need to look over them again to figure out exactly what would need changing to bring them in line, but I remember it wasn't pretty when I did the work the first time.
This doesn't bother me at all.
Most experienced players are going to gain far more mileage from optimising their characters using the full range of options available in the Core Rulebook, APG and other PFS legal sourcebooks.
The new player who grabs a pre-gen has a choice of (currently) four pre-built characters, gets what he's given with minimal modification (serial number filing), is more likely unfamiliar with the rules, and quite frankly deserves all the help he can get.
If experienced players think they can gain advantage over other players by grabbing a pre-gen just because they start with potions in their backpack at first-level, well good luck to him, but I think he's missing the point.
I am assuming you're sourcing official Pathfinder Society >> pre-gens here << and not from the back pages of an Adventure Path or other module which are built with different rules than official organsied play.
I haven't reverse-engineered Pathfinder Society official pre-gens for GP costs, but I don't see any potions in their equipment. There's alchemists fire, a thunderstone, and Ezren has a scroll of burning hands. Potions/scrolls and effects of 1st level spells are open access - legal for purchase without PA.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
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I haven't reverse-engineered Pathfinder Society official pre-gens for GP costs, but I don't see any potions in their equipment. There's alchemists fire, a thunderstone, and Ezren has a scroll of burning hands. Potions/scrolls and effects of 1st level spells are open access - legal for purchase without PA.
I did the quick math on the cleric and rouge. Cleric, spot on 149 gold spent, 1 gold left. As a bit of confusion, she mentions a light crossbow in the missile attack, but doesn't have one in her inventory. If she did, add 35 gp + bolts and now she's over 150.
Rogue? Not so much. 174 gold spent, 1 gold left.
The fighter is obviously over, his armor cost 150 and he has more stuff than that :)
Also there is this little nugget in step 10 of character creation:
You may not purchase any magic items during character creation.
There goes the wizard :)
So on quick analysis it appears that 3 of the 4 pregens are not legal in terms of The Guide. I know it was mentioned elsewhere that the new pregens also contain some non-PFS legal feats and such.
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I don't have an issue with the slightly "non-legal" nature of the pregens. In my mind, their main function is to allow a new player, not particularly familiar with the Pathfinder system, to pull up a chair and get to playing. If they have a slight "edge" compared to the other players during their initial exposure to the game, that's a small price to pay for added participation. And if we go with the idea that they will not have a faction for that 1st session, then the extra "stuff" can offset the lack of PA. If experienced players are using the pregens to "cheat" the build rules, that is a different issue entirely.
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I don't have an issue with the slightly "non-legal" nature of the pregens. In my mind, their main function is to allow a new player, not particularly familiar with the Pathfinder system, to pull up a chair and get to playing. If they have a slight "edge" compared to the other players during their initial exposure to the game, that's a small price to pay for added participation. And if we go with the idea that they will not have a faction for that 1st session, then the extra "stuff" can offset the lack of PA. If experienced players are using the pregens to "cheat" the build rules, that is a different issue entirely.
I don't really have an overall problem with it, as you point out. It's more a delivery vehicle. It was very interesting to realize and start doing the math though :)
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None of the factions want to destroy Absalom, they want to CONTROL it. It's the ultimate piece in the game of chess they're playing with each other.I thought that was the case but thought it would be fun if I had a character that wasn't involved in all the politics surrounding Absalom and it's demise LOL.
+1.
Sometimes when I see comments like this, I think that the Guide to Absalom should be part of the "Core". That discussion is however for another thread.
If the original poster is still reading this thread, I would like to recommend that if they can read The Guide to Absalom, it would reveal more or less how the five factions influence politics in the city and Pathfinder Socienty is just one part of that over all struggle.
The last chapter in the guide is titles "Secrets" The first topic is called "The Shadow War". It starts on running on pages 58-59.
Also worth mentioning is the Intro chapter which discusses the Noble Houses. Many of the houses have loyalties to other countries beyond Absalom.
If possible try reading this and see if this doesn't give you a better feel for the factions.
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So on quick analysis it appears that 3 of the 4 pregens are not legal in terms of The Guide. I know it was mentioned elsewhere that the new pregens also contain some non-PFS legal feats and such.
The guide says explicitly that the pregens are legal. Whether they would be illegal if build otherwise is irrelevant.
My feeling is the pregens are built to make the game slightly more survivable for new players. As someone else pointed out, it is hardly a benefit in the long term to use the pregens since they are fairly generic builds. Having a potion or an extra 25gp worth of gear is hardly going to unbalance the character after a single session.
I am still reading this thread for the conversation and debate is interesting. As for Absalom's demise, I ask you forgive my use of the term for I knew the factions were not looking to destroy it. By demise I meant change, make different, end its current rule, however one may want to look at it.
I do have the Absalom guide book and have read it and I am familiar with the sections you speak of.
I still believe that there should be a faction though in favor of protecting Absalom against such outside threats. That is all I was saying.
For one session per player. After that, you have to "file the serial numbers off" and make them legal for play, also per the guide. I consider the equipment list part of that.
This is correct.
Having a potion or an extra 25gp worth of gear is hardly going to unbalance the character after a single session.
Especially since you can usually buy stuff during the course of an adventure anyways (if necessary).
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I LOVE the idea of an "Independent Absalom" faction! I realize that adding a new faction with its own missions for each scenario would be a lot of work. Maybe the IA faction member would get 1 prestige point for each faction mission not accomplished.
I remember one Season 0 scenario where two different factions had the same mission. One one hand, it seems more realistic to have the various not-quite-at-open-war factions competing to grab the same artifacts, but on the other hand we don't need players at war with each other.
My idea for the Absalom faction isn't so much to interfere with the other factions missions but to keep track of the other factions missions, kind of like a scouting type mission, see whats out there report back.
This would allow Absalom to know who is plotting against them and how, therefore allowing them to better defend themselves against said faction.
Example: If I know you have a gun and plan on using it against me. Then every time I see you or meet with you I can wear my bullet proof vest.
This doesn't prevent you from attempting to shoot me but it does give me a better chance at surviving said attempt.
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My idea for the Absalom faction isn't so much to interfere with the other factions missions but to keep track of the other factions missions, kind of like a scouting type mission, see whats out there report back.
This would allow Absalom to know who is plotting against them and how, therefore allowing them to better defend themselves against said faction.
Example: If I know you have a gun and plan on using it against me. Then every time I see you or meet with you I can wear my bullet proof vest.
This doesn't prevent you from attempting to shoot me but it does give me a better chance at surviving said attempt.
Not trying to shoot down the idea of a new faction, but all goals have to be about actively going about your goal, it can't be passive.
One of the main rules of PFS is that you can't interfer with another factions goals. Some goals are about doing something unseen. Watching everyone all the time is going to make plenty of player real cranky.
I don't want that at my table.
However, if you want to make it that your woring for Lord Gyr and he wants you to travel to Taldor to retrieve a scouting report on the number of ships in the merchant fleet in good repair, while doing let's say the shipyard rats scenario, I say game on!
For all the talk about adding new Factions to PFS play, just remember that Josh has stated that if they did do it, then all previous scenarios would automatically become invalid and not legal for play because they would not have the rules or missions for any new Factions.
Being that is it literally Step 1 in the Character Creation chapter...
Must, not may :)Step 1: Choose Your Faction
Carefully review each faction in Chapter 3, and then make your decision based on your character concept. Remember that once you’ve chosen your character’s faction, you cannot later change this choice, just like you can’t later change your character’s race. Remember, too, that your character does not have to be from the nation that his faction represents—Ulfens loyal to Taldor, Thuvians loyal to Cheliax, and even Vudrans loyal to Andoran are all acceptable choices. You must choose a faction before you can begin play in Pathfinder Society.
Pretty straightforward. There are certain base assumptions that are agreed upon before any campaign, and in this case the PFS guide lists them. If you wish to be a part of the campaign, those are the assumptions you agree to. End of story.
Best.
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Noteleks I understand your troubles and think an Absalom faction would be cool. I also would like to suggest a mercenary approach to factions as an option for a pathfinder with no desire to be involved in the politics or what have you. By doing "missions" for your benefactor they are opening up their resources to you. More of a one hand washes the other approach than a loyal supporter of cause approach. You want access to all those hard to get items that adventurers love here is a way to get what you need, and what does it hurt to do some little side job while handling what your venture captain has requested you to do right. I mean everyone knows the ten are not going to let any of these factions gain enough power to take over let them dance the dance and continue in their power struggle it keeps them from seriously doing any real damage to the society as a whole. Maybe you are a secrete member of the Absalom faction working as a member of X faction and I am a member of Absalom faction working for Qadira. By us doing missions for them we are ensuring the shadow war continues. Reporting to our real loyalties what these factions are up to. :)I know it isn't official, but in all this shadowy goodness who is to say:D It is all how you spin it.
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Basically the way the story runs is that in Absalom, if you're not hooked up with somebody, you're nobody. And the Factions for good and ill, are the SomeBodies to hook up to. The Ten know and expect this and apparantly are not willing to extend any trust to someone who doesn't have a "reputable" background of loyalty to someone who matters.
That's not quite true. If you want to look at it that way, it's your prerogative. The fact is this is how the organized play system is arranged. If you want to play, you'll need to play within the confines of the game or you won't have as many opportunities as those who do. There's nothing stopping someone from creating their own campaign and doing a pro-Absalom faction. But this is Pathfinder Society, and to play it requires an acceptance of the system, and a certain suspension of beliefs.
Oh, I totally understand what you are saying Doug Doug, and I respect it and will play by the rules for I love what PFS has done and continues to do. I just brought this up as a topic of discussion for non of the factions really interested me and my character concept but since starting this thread I have been given several good ideas on how to work around this issue.
The reason I brought up the Absalom faction issue is to see what everyone else's take on it is. I felt Absalom was misrepresented by the current factions and felt that maybe sometime in the future there could be an addition to the current factions and if there was more added in the future then why not a Absalom faction to protect it's interest.
All in all I have found this discussion very entertaining, civil, and rather enlightening. Remember all these rules for PFS had to start off as ideas in someone's head. This thread just adds more to the brainstorming part of the creation process which I myself find very enjoyable.
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Hate to cast a Necromancy(Thread) spell, but this thread brought up a topic I also came across.
My first, current, and primary character, Ridgar Redhammer, just doesn't seem to fit into any faction. He was created for a home ran PFS game on New Years, and factions were mentioned more as an afterthought rather than the first step in character creation(the module we ran had no PA rewards anyways).
Ridgar is a fairly abraisive, CN dwarf barbarian who makes his living wrestling in bars and doing missions for the Society. He's a very simple and straitforward individual; he wants his cut of the pay, and he'll do whatever he feels like between now and then that gets the job done.
Qadira: While he likes his money, he has no concern for cornering markets.
Taldor: While he is boastful and seeks personal glory, he could care less about the glory of Taldor. They're way too high class for his tastes anyways.
Cheliax: The Celiax opperate with a certain amount of subterfuge and grace. Ridgar opperates by smashing faces in.
Osirion: While Ridgar appriciates the nerd of the society (who sign his paychecks) and can respect the importance of historic artifacts, he is not a bright man and has no care in artifacts himself.
Andora: Ridgar is a member of the Andoran (since this was suggested as the best fit), but even this is a shakey fit. Their letters are always written with an air of glory and justice, while Ridgar's take on the situation is always "Let's get this crap done."
Over all, I like the idea of a Mercenary system, one that would allow for you to play a different faction's PA mission from session to session, perhaps in exchange for some drawback or another.
Don't get me wrong, I'll continue to play Ridgar as Andoran, and do so as contently as a cat with a ball of yarn. It just seems like the character I made is out of place with a system that relies heavily on the factions at war.
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My first, current, and primary character, Ridgar Redhammer, just doesn't seem to fit into any faction.
You do not need to endorse all of the aspects of a faction, just the ones you agree with. Think of it like politics. Nearly everyone who identifies them self as a republican, democrat, whatever, has issues with some of their platforms. It's just that many (or most) of their ideals mesh. As an example, my Chelish Barbarian/Rogue is, like your PC, a "smasher." He likes money, but only in that it pays for improvements to his weapons/armor. With a CN alignment, he's not against the occasional "assassination" in the name of the faction. He's just not interested in, or understanding of, the subtle machinations of his "handlers." Even the infernal-influenced leaders of Cheliax need shock troops.
As far as creating a mercenary faction, I've heard it before, but not in favor. The existing factions work just fine for 99.99% of the characters out there. Re-vamping the entire society to incorporate another faction is, IMO, too disruptive and unnecessary.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Personal Experience:
When I updated my Season 0 PC to Season 1, I also tacked on a lot of GM-credit experience, which, at that point, didn't yield any Prestige Awards. I ended up with a Level 6 character who had only 8 TPA.
And you know, that character was still fun to play. I justified the low PA as "I've been gone on extended Pathfinder excursions in obscure places, and the faction contact wasn't able to contact me to give me mission assignments."
It means that, yes, I am limited to the equipment on my chronicle sheets, but that just invites me to take my PC in directions I might not have otherwise considered.
It works fine.
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Personal Experience:
When I updated my Season 0 PC to Season 1, I also tacked on a lot of GM-credit experience, which, at that point, didn't yield any Prestige Awards. I ended up with a Level 6 character who had only 8 TPA.
And you know, that character was still fun to play. I justified the low PA as "I've been gone on extended Pathfinder excursions in obscure places, and the faction contact wasn't able to contact me to give me mission assignments."
It means that, yes, I am limited to the equipment on my chronicle sheets, but that just invites me to take my PC in directions I might not have otherwise considered.
It works fine.
But doesn't that also limit the total value of any gear you can purchase? Forgive me, I'm still a bit new to the Society (even if I have written up Society characters of each class already).
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But doesn't that also limit the total value of any gear you can purchase? Forgive me, I'm still a bit new to the Society (even if I have written up Society characters of each class already).
You can buy anything that appears on your chronicles.
Otherwise you are limited based on your total PA.
I have a character who doesn't really care much about his faction. He's Taldor but only because he likes their fancy clothes. I figure he does the faction missions so he can keep up with the latest court styles and because they hook him up with gear. I don't think your character really needs to care much about his mission or faction.