Climb the Giant


Homebrew and House Rules


Dorje Sylas wrote:

Combat combo manuvers would be very welcome. One good extension would expand into those odd place where skills and combat manuvers combine.

Two I think of, actually 3.

1) Climb the Giant. Talk about our classic fantasy move that has never gotten good treatment in any official writeup that I know of. CM + Climb.

2) Combined with the above, Unwelcome Rider. For when PCs end up hanging form some bigger flying creature or even ground based one.

3) Combat Toss, to pass a companion a handheld item in the middle of a fight or in other situations.

I like Silas's suggestion of a maneuver for climbing creatures 2 sizes larger than you. It's something that players do all the time and I have to wing it. Suggestions and refinements are more than welcome.

CLIMB THE GIANT
(Combat Maneuver)

A successful Climb the Giant maneuver results in the climbing character entering their opponent's space and holding onto them. Neither the attacker nor the defender are grappled, but the attacker gains the Bucking condition. To perform a Climb the Giant check, the attacker rolls a standard maneuver check, though their opponent does not get any bonuses for size. If the check is successful, the attacker must make a climb check as if their opponent were a surface. Consult the climbing table on page 91 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook to set the DC and apply the -4 modifier for Bucking.

The Climb the Giant defender may, during their turn, either use a simple grapple check (without their size bonus) to grab the creature. A creature grabbed in this way is no longer Climbing the Giant, but grappled as normal. If they wish to truly rid themselves of their attacker, the defender may Roll and Shake. This is a full-round action which increases their opponent's Bucking modifier from +4 to +14.

On any round the attacker makes a successful Bucking check, the defender loses any dex bonus to AC versus the attacker.

BUCKING
(Condition)
This condition constitutes Violent Motion which is aimed at throwing you from a mount, a perch of some kind, or an opponent you have targeted with a Climb the Giant maneuver. This condition assumes you are trying to hold onto the creature or object doing the bucking. From here out, we shall refer to the creature being Bucked as the "attacker" and the creature or object doing the Bucking as the "defender"

Each round the attacker is Bucking, they must make a climb check DC equal to the defender's CMD without size modifiers. If you fail, you begin falling off. If the attacker succeeds in the roll, they may perform a single standard action and any free actions that are relevant to the situation.

While falling off, the attacker moves one square towards the nearest edge of the defender. If the attacker is adjacent to that edge, they instead fall off and take lethal damage equal to 1d6+1 per size category the defender is above medium). The attacker may take no actions during a round they are falling off from Bucking.

While Bucking, the attacker receives a flat -4 to all rolls and may only use climbing movement. The attacker may move freely within the space of the defender. Using the climbing table on page 91 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, the attacker can even climb underneath the defender.

The attacker may choose to throw themselves off as a free action if they succeed the Bucking roll, but you still suffer the effects (in essence, they may perform an action, then throw themselves off or just throw themselves off and perform no actions. The attacker may let go as an immediate action, but if the defender moves during that turn, the attacker will fall off at a random point in that movement (GM's discretion).


Looks nice, but I suggest an acrobatics roll to avoid falling damage like you get when you fall from a great height.


stringburka wrote:
Looks nice, but I suggest an acrobatics roll to avoid falling damage like you get when you fall from a great height.

Good suggestion.

Scarab Sages

I like it so far, and I know its totally off topic and therefor absolutely no help to you but...

Little Johnny goes out on Halloween dressed as a pirate. He is having a great night, collecting tons of candy, when he knocks on a neighbor's door.

"Oh, its little Johnny, and he's dressed as a pirate!" exclaimed the neighbor. "But tell me, where are your buccaneers?"

Little Johnny looked at the neighbor for a minute, kind of confused and then retorted "Well, they're under my buckin' hat!"

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.


Personally speaking, I like climbing giants. The last time I did it, it was with spider climb, and I ended up peeing on it for lack of a better option. That reminds me though, how about something thrown in to make sure you stay out of reach of whatever it is the PC is climbing/riding.


This is neat! Maybe the ability to by pass some natural armor aswell when you get to the top, as giants tend not to have great Dex bonuses anyway!


Two more interesting comments. I'm going to let this stew a bit more in this thread before I do the first revision. I'm leaning towards making sphen's suggestion the "Greater Climb the Giant" feat. Expect a better-worded description, a few feats, and a couple of traits for goblins and gnome later today when I get home from work.


Loopy wrote:
Two more interesting comments. I'm going to let this stew a bit more in this thread before I do the first revision. I'm leaning towards making sphen's suggestion the "Greater Climb the Giant" feat. Expect a better-worded description, a few feats, and a couple of traits for goblins and gnome later today when I get home from work.

Wait, I did what with the what now? Sweet. Whatever it was, it must have been good.


I suggest removing all the references to the defender not applying size bonuses to their CMB/CMD, and replace them with an equivalent bonus to the attack based on the size difference. Generally speaking, it's simpler to add a temporary modifier than to temporarily remove a permanent modifier. Also, the way you have it worded right now gives a Huge creature climbing a Colossal creature more of an advantage than a Medium creature climbing a Huge creature.
I suggest removing the reference to "moving one square towards the nearest edge of the defender". Unless you also want to come up with rules for called shots to specific body parts, you want to avoid opening the "where on the monster am I?" can of worms.
"Bucking" is a confusing term since technically the target is the one bucking.
I agree that gaining an AC bonus by hiding in a hard-to-reach place would be a good effect for Greater Climb the Giant.
Here's my attempt at a rewrite given those suggestions:

Spoiler:
CLIMB THE GIANT: To begin a Climb the Giant maneuver, you must make a CMB check which provokes an attack of opportunity as normal. Your target must be at least two size categories larger than you, and you gain a circumstance bonus equal to twice the total difference in size categories to your CMB and CMD against the target for the duration of the maneuver.
If you succeed, you enter the target's space and are now clinging. Each round you must make a Climb or CMB check against the target's CMD as a move action to remain attached. If you succeed, you may take the remainder of you actions normally, and if you make an attack against the target you ignore its Dex bonus to AC. You may also choose to stop clinging and slide to the ground in an adjacent square of your choice. If you fail, you are flung off to a random adjacent square and take damage as if you had fallen a distance equal to the twice target's reach. If you fail the check by less than 5 you may make an Acrobatics check to reduce the damage as normal.

Clinging: You are clinging to a creature much larger than yourself. You must use at least one hand to maintain the hold. You suffer any penalties that would normally affect you while climbing, but they do not apply against the creature you are clinging to. This counts as Vigorous Motion for the purposes of spellcasting. You may share the space of your target, and if an effect targets only a portion of that space it has a 50% chance to affect you.

SHAKE: If another creature is clinging to you, you may attempt to shake it off as a move action. This adds +5 to the DC for it to remain clinging to you on its next turn and to the concentration DC to cast spells due to motion. This effect stacks with itself if you take more than one action before the clinging creature's next turn. Additionally, if the creature fails to maintain its hold, you may choose which square it is flung off into.

Improved Climb the Giant: You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when performing a Climb the Giant maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus to your CMB while performing such a maneuver. If you succeed on the check to remain clinging by more than 5, you hold on with your legs and have both hands free.

Greater Climb the Giant: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made using the Climb the Giant maneuver. Your apply the size-based circumstance bonus to CMB and CMD while using this maneuver to your AC as well. In addition, you may ready an action to initiate a Climb the Giant maneuver if your target attacks you or something within your reach.


Or you could do it. LOL

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