Hi everyone and greetings from Italy.
This is my first post here, hope my english won't disappoint you.
The Pathfinder rules system has been published a few months ago and it is one the best ( if not THE BEST ) OGL RPG i've ever seen.
Even though i completely agreed on every rule i read i'd need an explanation on half orcs ; they have always been the strength based race and reading they have ( from the italian printed edition "+2 ad un punteggio di caratteristica a loro scelta" - "+2 to an ability score of their choice" ) left me a bit puzzled. In 3,5 they had +2 Strength -2 Intelligence -2 Charisma , and while it's ok i can still give a half orc +2 strength it is a bit weird being able to give him +2 Intelligence or even Charisma.
Great job on everything anyway.
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Hi everyone and greetings from Italy.
This is my first post here, hope my english won't disappoint you.
The Pathfinder rules system has been published a few months ago and it is one the best ( if not THE BEST ) OGL RPG i've ever seen.
Even though i completely agreed on every rule i read i'd need an explanation on half orcs ; they have always been the strength based race and reading they have ( from the italian printed edition "+2 ad un punteggio di caratteristica a loro scelta" - "+2 to an ability score of their choice" ) left me a bit puzzled. In 3,5 they had +2 Strength -2 Intelligence -2 Charisma , and while it's ok i can still give a half orc +2 strength it is a bit weird being able to give him +2 Intelligence or even Charisma.
Great job on everything anyway.
This was as much of a thematic change as I have seen with the system though I overall agree with the direction it was taken. Orcs in general with the system have been given more credit in terms of mental aptitude. They are no longer entirely just mindless raving monsters as they once were and this change reflects that. All of the half-breeds were brought into line with the "+2 to an ability score of your choice" option. This is the same as how humans are treated, and I believe it was done to try to level the field somewhat.
In short, I think the blood of humans runs a whole lot stronger in half breeds in the pathfinder system than it did in previous incarnations of the game.
Greetings from America. I was in Italy a couple years ago, and loved every minute of it. I find myself wanting to go back frequently but my funds are rather short at the moment.
Anyway, about Half Orcs.
I'm actually rather pleased with Pathfinder's change, and here's why.
Half Orcs are usually outcasts, not easily accepted into society. They need to look to many different skill sets to survive (INT, STR, CHA, WIS, whatever). Being half human, their genetics are prone to as much variety as one would find in a human, with a couple notable exceptions. They are tougher (Orc Ferocity) and naturally see in the dark.
So, you could have a half orc rogue who survived on the streets by being smart and quick.
Or, you could have a half orc who survived by having a commanding presence and using that to influence others (CHA.)
This way, they reflect the natural variety of humans while still retaining their Orcish traits.
I hope that helps.
I think the Pathfinder orc is generally a more human orc than 3.5. He\she has more of the human's bonus than the physical stature of his Orcish Roots.
Personally, I'm fine with this because it sets up the full blooded orc to be more of a bruiser.
There's no real reason why you can't have both types in your game after all.
S
I actually preferred the why that Half-Orcs were done in the Beta.
But, I do understand why the change was done,
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Orcs in general with the system have been given more credit in terms of mental aptitude. They are no longer entirely just mindless raving monsters as they once were
Actually, Pathfinder Orcs have the exact same +4 Str and -2 to all mental stats as they did in 3.5, and if you read the new Orcs of Golarion they really are portrayed as raving monsters. Don't know that they were ever shown as 'mindless' though.
Half-orcs have always been the 'strong brute' race. They had that stripped away and got nothing useful in return. This is the one bone of contention I really have with PF. I continue to play Half-orcs, but this is honestly my least favorite version of them.
if you read the new Orcs of Golarion they really are portrayed as raving monsters.
I'm kind of disappointed to hear that. I've been looking forward to getting Orcs of Golarion just as soon as I could afford it, and I was hoping the Half-Orc material would suggest a variety of ways to interpret the 'race.'
I'm new to RP and the first involved character I ever created for myself was a Half-Orc aberrant sorceress (with a not-uncomplicated but atypically peaceful pastoral upbringing). I really liked the idea that she'd be physically striking and imposing in a way her naivete wouldn't fully permit her to understand - at least not at first. (She's growing into her Charisma over time). I also liked the idea that she wouldn't fit in easily, even with other Half-Orcs.
I went with this idea before I had any idea that it was so entirely contrary to the traditional Half-Orc rules, but I still like it, even if it is some kind of abomination. I actually think it makes more sense that Half-Orcs would be extremely varied - in appearance, physical and mental stats - because they're not even examples of a single race, they're the product of two races, one of which is already especially noted for its variety. I think it just makes sense that at least a few Half-Orcs would take after their human parent more than their orc parent, and I was hoping that would be reflected in the guide.
Half-orcs have always been the 'strong brute' race. They had that stripped away and got nothing useful in return. This is the one bone of contention I really have with PF. I continue to play Half-orcs, but this is honestly my least favorite version of them.
Then go back to the Beta modifiers: +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom.
It looks like in Pathfinder they have created a "Half-Human" template. All the half-humans get some lesser version of the non-human parent such as dark vision, keen senses, or the like. And the human half gives them a floating +2 to any ability and sort of a fixed feat. But there are not really enough to confirm that pattern is really there.
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I think it just makes sense that at least a few Half-Orcs would take after their human parent more than their orc parent, and I was hoping that would be reflected in the guide.
I haven't given it a thorough read, but Orcs of Golarion seems to focus more on Orcs rather than Half-Orcs.
They do leave the door open to a variety of Half-Orc behavior and approaches to the world, generally splitting the race into those that embrace their brutish nature and those that try to suppress it.
I don't see anything wrong with your approach to the race.
Anyone who thinks half-orcs have to have a -2 to Charisma ought to check out the picture on page 17 of Orcs of Golarion. First hot male half-orc I've ever seen.
Orcs in general with the system have been given more credit in terms of mental aptitude. They are no longer entirely just mindless raving monsters as they once wereActually, Pathfinder Orcs have the exact same +4 Str and -2 to all mental stats as they did in 3.5, and if you read the new Orcs of Golarion they really are portrayed as raving monsters. Don't know that they were ever shown as 'mindless' though.
Half-orcs have always been the 'strong brute' race. They had that stripped away and got nothing useful in return. This is the one bone of contention I really have with PF. I continue to play Half-orcs, but this is honestly my least favorite version of them.
Wait, wait, what?
3.5 Half-orcs had +2 STR, -2 INT, -2 CHA, for a net adjustment of -2. The only special abilities they got were Darkvision (60 ft) and Orc Blood, which didn't often come into play.
In Pathfinder, they still have Darkvision (60 ft), a variation of Orc Blood where they count as both human and orcish for effects based on race, racial +2 to Intimidate, a "die hard" style ability, and weapons familiarity with weapons that emphasize the "strong brute" archetype. Oh, and a +2 adjustment to any ability modifier, which is a net of +2, bringing it in line with the other PF races. Crunch-wise, the Pathfinder half-orc is strictly better, and flavor-wise, they're not that drastically changed. The only thing about the strong brute that could've been stripped away is that they're no longer the only race to get a strength bonus, but they're one of only three that can have it. And out of the three, the rest of the half-orc's abilities fit the strong brute character best. Honestly, I think the two half-races benefited the most from Pathfinderization.
I believe there is a misunderstanding. Wolfthulhu was talking about full blooded Orcs, not Half Orcs.
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Half-orcs have always been the 'strong brute' race. They had that stripped away and got nothing useful in return. This is the one bone of contention I really have with PF. I continue to play Half-orcs, but this is honestly my least favorite version of them.Then go back to the Beta modifiers: +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom.
As a GM, I do exactly that. As a player, I have to use the stats the GM uses, which is normally RAW.
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Wait, wait, what?
3.5 Half-orcs had +2 STR, -2 INT, -2 CHA, for a net adjustment of -2. The only special abilities they got were Darkvision (60 ft) and Orc Blood, which didn't often come into play.
In Pathfinder, they still have Darkvision (60 ft), a variation of Orc Blood where they count as both human and orcish for effects based on race, racial +2 to Intimidate, a "die hard" style ability, and weapons familiarity with weapons that emphasize the "strong brute" archetype.
A bonus to Intimidate is only useful to characters you wish to Intimidate with, it's going to be sick for my Half-orc Bard. But honestly, it's a very situational skill and only useful to very specific builds. The Orc Ferocity trait can be as much of a PC killer as a Barbarian's rage. 'Below 0, but above dying' means that you don't drop and start to stabilize. Instead you stay in combat as a target, if you get attacked again before your next turn... you're most likely dead. Not down and stabilizing, dead. Do you think it's coincidence that 6 out of 10 of the Half-orc alternate racial traits replace this one?
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if you read the new Orcs of Golarion they really are portrayed as raving monsters.I'm kind of disappointed to hear that. I've been looking forward to getting Orcs of Golarion just as soon as I could afford it, and I was hoping the Half-Orc material would suggest a variety of ways to interpret the 'race.'
I'm new to RP and the first involved character I ever created for myself was a Half-Orc aberrant sorceress (with a not-uncomplicated but atypically peaceful pastoral upbringing). I really liked the idea that she'd be physically striking and imposing in a way her naivete wouldn't fully permit her to understand - at least not at first. (She's growing into her Charisma over time). I also liked the idea that she wouldn't fit in easily, even with other Half-Orcs.
I went with this idea before I had any idea that it was so entirely contrary to the traditional Half-Orc rules, but I still like it, even if it is some kind of abomination. I actually think it makes more sense that Half-Orcs would be extremely varied - in appearance, physical and mental stats - because they're not even examples of a single race, they're the product of two races, one of which is already especially noted for its variety. I think it just makes sense that at least a few Half-Orcs would take after their human parent more than their orc parent, and I was hoping that would be reflected in the guide.
Sounds like you have a pretty cool character. There are some spells in the book that might be useful, they are very flavorful. The fluff text is fun and interesting, and the traits are nice. The feats are almost entirely rage focused, though. It's a good book, but focuses mostly on full Orcs (as the name implies). You're not exactly going to 'break type' with it, though.
I actually preferred the why that Half-Orcs were done in the Beta.
They had +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom. But, I do understand why the change was done,
Because that's nonsensical unless you do something similar with Half-Elves.