Sorceror Bloodline Bonus Spells

[Ross Byers]

There's no reason to lose the spell: A sorcerer gains no benefit from having a spell on his list twice, but that doesn't mean he's lacking a spell known.

[Foxy Quickpaw]

Example:
You have an elemental sorcerer (water) who takes burning hands at level one as spell known. He can cast it as fire spell or as cold spell.

Rules::

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline. This also changes the spell's type to match the type of your bloodline.

Now he advances to 3rd level and gets Burning Hands via his bloodline which allows him only to cast it only as cold spell.

Rules::

*These spells always deal a type of damage determined by your element. In addition, the subtype of these spells changes to match the energy type of your element.

He now has the spell effectively two time as spell known. Once with the fire descriptor and once with the cold descriptor.

If he now reaches level four he can as stated in the rules exchange any spell he knows except the ones he gained through his bloodline (that includes even spells known gained through human favoured class bonus or expanded arcana feat).

Rules::

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered sorcerer level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. In effect, the sorcerer loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level.

At 3rd level, and every two levels thereafter, a sorcerer learns an additional spell, derived from her bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.

So the sorcerer can choose to keep his fire spell or exchange it for something else and only keep his cold burning hands from the bloodline.

That is Rules As Written and works for any spell even if they are real duplicates. Because there is nowhere written that your spell known disappears only because you get it another time through your bloodline.
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If you feel generous and especially if the spell is a real duplicate like identify there is another option. You could say they are all spells known, only that the bloodline spells don't count towards the number of known spells in the table.

If done that way you reach 3rd level and that 'identify' doesn't count against your spells known because it's from your arcane bloodline bonus spell list now. And voilà an open spot for a new spell.

That could be done without breaking any written rule for any spell that is a real duplicate and not changed like written above.

That is for sure not as intended but would fly with a generous GM as fair.

[Agodeshalf]

I guess I don't see this as a big deal. If you want to have your bloodline spell early, you take it. And give up the bonus spell. It's a shame that they are structured in such a way that they are spells you'd want to take and the timing is off, but such is life. Would you rather that you got some useless bonus spell?

But the rules seem pretty clear that you don't get a different spell if you already know the bonus spell, and you can't retrain it. I don't like the idea of have duplicate spells known. You know burning hands or you don't. You don't have 2 or 3 burning hands spells known, and only the bloodline one is carved in stone and unchangeable.

[ChaosTicket]

Well you have two choices with spell choice.

1 Pick a different spell that your Bloodline bonus gives, potentially making you weaker now, but getting the better spell as a bonus later. 2 Or you can pick the spell now and waist the point of having bonuses.

Spells know are tight, but getting a Human, Half-elf, or Half-orc for the Human Favored Class bonus of more spells know tiers 0-8 is too useful to pass up.

[Darth Nym]

The point is... if I have a fire burning hands gained at lvl1 and a cold burning hands gained at lvl3, are they the same spell? Let's say I have spell specialization at lvl1 on burning hands. Does it remain attached to the fire burning hands, can I freely choose to apply the feat to the new instance of the spell or do I need to wait until the next even lvl to switch from fire to cold? This is VERY important for primal non-fire sorcerers as it implies multiple cascading issues...