I got the impression it was out in the middle of the ocean and not visible on any of the currently published maps. Just over the horizon and under leagues of water.
Creative Director
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Earthfall covered almost an entire hemishpere of the world; it was a huge meteor shower type event, with the primary strikes happening on the continent of Azlant, far to the west of the Inner Sea region. Other strikes hit Garund, Azlant, and Arcadia; the most significant of those was the one that brought the starstone down to Golarion (this one created the Inner Sea; its impact crater has the Isle of Kortos and Absalom at its center).
There IS a fair amount of Azlant still aboveground, but it's true that probalby about 70 to 80% of it is now underwater and/or destroyed.
Earthfall covered almost an entire hemishpere of the world; it was a huge meteor shower type event, with the primary strikes happening on the continent of Azlant, far to the west of the Inner Sea region. Other strikes hit Garund, Azlant, and Arcadia; the most significant of those was the one that brought the starstone down to Golarion (this one created the Inner Sea; its impact crater has the Isle of Kortos and Absalom at its center).
There IS a fair amount of Azlant still aboveground, but it's true that probalby about 70 to 80% of it is now underwater and/or destroyed.
I really can't wait to see that world map in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Will it be shown on the blog sometime?
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Creative Director
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Earthfall covered almost an entire hemishpere of the world; it was a huge meteor shower type event, with the primary strikes happening on the continent of Azlant, far to the west of the Inner Sea region. Other strikes hit Garund, Azlant, and Arcadia; the most significant of those was the one that brought the starstone down to Golarion (this one created the Inner Sea; its impact crater has the Isle of Kortos and Absalom at its center).
There IS a fair amount of Azlant still aboveground, but it's true that probalby about 70 to 80% of it is now underwater and/or destroyed.
I really can't wait to see that world map in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Will it be shown on the blog sometime?
Yup. Probably not for a few months though.
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Mikaze, Thazar, James, Vagrent Poet, thank you all for taking the time to answer my question.
I was unaware that Earthfall was a series of meteor strikes, more of a meteor shower. That makes allot of sense.
After reading the adventure path “ a second darkness” I think I remember what race is responsible for Eartfall.
And thank for clarifying that the star stone and the isle of Krotos, was just one of many strikes.
Yup. Probably not for a few months though.Earthfall covered almost an entire hemishpere of the world; it was a huge meteor shower type event, with the primary strikes happening on the continent of Azlant, far to the west of the Inner Sea region. Other strikes hit Garund, Azlant, and Arcadia; the most significant of those was the one that brought the starstone down to Golarion (this one created the Inner Sea; its impact crater has the Isle of Kortos and Absalom at its center).
There IS a fair amount of Azlant still aboveground, but it's true that probalby about 70 to 80% of it is now underwater and/or destroyed.
I really can't wait to see that world map in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Will it be shown on the blog sometime?
1000 x 800 at least! :p
That's great though! I look forward in eager anticipation!
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In our own world, the event that James Jacobs described would likely be considered an extinction level event. (I presume that there might have been a narrow strip of land connection Qadira and Osirion that got wiped out, as well as some damage to the area that later became the Arch of Aroden.) Possibly some of the gods were able to limit some of the damage. which would be a contrast with Krynn where the gods caused a Cataclysm.
As for Earthfall itself, I wonder if the aboleth realized what they had unleashed. Mind you, Earthfall alone should give most people pause before tackling the aboleth.
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Creative Director
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In our own world, the event that James Jacobs described would likely be considered an extinction level event. (I presume that there might have been a narrow strip of land connection Qadira and Osirion that got wiped out, as well as some damage to the area that later became the Arch of Aroden.) Possibly some of the gods were able to limit some of the damage. which would be a contrast with Krynn where the gods caused a Cataclysm.
As for Earthfall itself, I wonder if the aboleth realized what they had unleashed. Mind you, Earthfall alone should give most people pause before tackling the aboleth.
In Golarion, it almost was. It basically destroyed an entire continent and smashed up another 3 pretty good. It was just this side of extinction level; it was a continental crush, not a world crush, in other words. The following 1,000 years were pretty rough on the survivors, in any event.
And whether or not the aboleths found the results to be exactly what they wanted or if it surprised them by being TOO potent is something they're keeping to themselves for now.
But those responsible for it were all balefully polymorphed into flumphs.
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And I thought Aboleth overlords were bad. There is truly no hope under Flump overlords.
In terms of Earth fall being an Extinction Level Event, (I thougth Deep Impact was an excellent movie, Maby Morgan Freeman should run for President) I Suppose it is a difficult thing to balance, namely how much sience you want in your fantasy. Everyone is going to have varying tastes. I for one appreciate the sandbox style campaign world of Golaron that has been put together.I prefer to have a broader selection of thingsto choose from, Namely the "expedetion to the Barrier peaks" or "thundar the barbarian" ( maby i got that name wrong)feel to Numaria to the magic gun infested area called the Mana Wastes. This way I can prune things to suite my tastes.
As for my own tastes, i cringe when i see corn and potatoes grown in a "quasi-medhival european setting" because these are crops from the "new world" which were not in europe before columbus's voyage.
I dislike guns in my fantasy setting, because it was the gun which brought an end to plate armor and the canon which put serious dents ( yes and Trebuchets) in castle walls. Both plate and mail armor and castles are staples to my conception of fantasy settings. On a game mechanic level, something that regularly delivers ranged touch attacks,which is what i think fire arms do, seriously messes up the armor class system.
However i understand that Golaron draws its inspiration from a much broader palate. And there are probobly plenty of people who don't see any problem with guns and fire arms in their fantasy. By including the Mana wastes, and the guns there, you can keep a broad range of people happy.
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Creative Director
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There IS a World map ????? WOOOT !!!Earthfall covered almost an entire hemishpere of the world;I really can't wait to see that world map in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Will it be shown on the blog sometime?
Yup; as part of my work revising the Campaign Setting, I designed the rest of the continents. That version of the map is relatively detailed as far as coastlines are concerned; the version we'll be running in the book is a bit less detailed but more "in game" realistic so that folks can see the basic locations of everything. I might end up posting both in a side by side comparison here on the blog in a few months if folks are interested...
Yup; as part of my work revising the Campaign Setting, I designed the rest of the continents. That version of the map is relatively detailed as far as coastlines are concerned; the version we'll be running in the book is a bit less detailed but more "in game" realistic so that folks can see the basic locations of everything. I might end up posting both in a side by side comparison here on the blog in a few months if folks are interested...There IS a World map ????? WOOOT !!!Earthfall covered almost an entire hemishpere of the world;I really can't wait to see that world map in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Will it be shown on the blog sometime?
Yes, Yes, a thousand times yes! I'll start a petition!
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Definitely interested.
One thing that happened in Europe and the Canary Islands before Columbus set sail is that sometimes bodies of people who looked vaguely East Asian to Europeans would wash ashore. Possibly that might happen in Avistan, or someone might be able to survive being washed out to see. (Fortunately or unfortunately, such a person might find himself or herself reaching Azlant first.)
Yup; as part of my work revising the Campaign Setting, I designed the rest of the continents......I might end up posting both in a side by side comparison here on the blog in a few months if folks are interested...
I'm interested! "\('o')/"
Please and thank you!
-- C.
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The game suffers in the carryover from it's wargaming design origins. Instead of damage reduction, Armor has been given the job of blow avoidance that's usually put to speed and skill.
In some cases, RL armor does reduce damage a'la DR (eg: bludgeoning weapons). But in many cases, it's a binary thing: either the armor did stop the arrowhead/spearhead/sword tip and you're fine or it penetrates and your'e likely done for it.
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Getting back to the subject of Earthfall, continents do not technically sink -- save through the slow process of one continental plate being subducted under another. (New land can emerge from the process of continents drifting and plates being pushed up.)
However, in the existence of humanity on Earth, we have seen the sea levels rise and fall greatly during ice ages and the periods between them. This provides a possible solution to those who might complain continents do not sink
I am not aware if there are any maps of what Golarion looked like prior to Earthfall. However, let me suppose that either the Northern Hemisphere was in an Ice Age or a transition period to the current climate. In which case, land levels would be higher.
Here is a site that shows some of the changes. (Maybe it will help Josh or other people at Paizo who might want to play with their maps to see what Golarion might have looked like before Earthfall.)
Global land environments during the last 130,000 years.
So, perhaps glaciers extended from what are now the Lands of the Linnorm Kings northwards. During Earthfall, tsunamis and meteors devastated the coasts of Avistan, Arcadia, Garund, and Azlant. If much of Azlant was low lying, this would be particularly devastating.
During the Age of Darkness, there may likely have been a return to Ice Age conditions in parts of Golarion. Azlant, with its low lying coastlands may have seen some of them raised above the waves again. As the Age of Darkness ended, melting glaciers could raise the sea levels, flooding Azlant and other areas.
For an example of how much sea levels can rise and fall, here are links to some maps.
Europe Potential Present Vegetation
Europe under full glacial conditions
Present day potential vegetation of Asia
Eurasia under full glacial conditions
In our own world, it would seem that the sky was only darkened for a few yearsCretaceous Tertiary extinction event. On Golarion, magic may have helped keep the ecosystem going or the sky was not completely darkened during all of the age of Darkness. (Records of that time would be sketchy but possibly dust around Golarion could have cut down on the amount of sunlight reaching the world for extended periods.) Another event that is perhaps closer to the scale of Earthfall than the Chicxulub impact at the end of the Cretaceous might be the Toba supererruption, some 70,000 years ago.
From looking at what we know of the Isle of Kortos, Earthfall could have stimulated volcanic errruptions in the Kortos Mountains. Possibly, Arazlant Mox might have an origion similar to Mount Kilimanjaro.
I hope that I have not bored or annoyed people to much with my musings on Golarion's geography.
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Creative Director
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When I say "Azlant sunk" that's not 100% accurate. It was hammered hard by Earthfall, and today Azlant looks a lot more like a sprinkling of hundreds, perhaps THOUSANDS of islands arrayed around a lot of relatively circular seas, basically. There's lots of fragmented canyons and cracks in the land, and a fair amount of the continent, weakened by the strikes, has crumbled into the ocean or collapsed into the Darklands. In fact, if I remember correctly, "Into the Darklands'" entry on the giant sea in Orv talks about the relationship with Azlant...
And as for the "Thousand years of darkness" caused by Earthfall, there's a bit of metaphor going on there. The "darkness" itself lasted for a relatively short time; probably only a few years, in fact, but the ice age/mayhem caused by that certainly caused a darkness of civilization and hope. THAT'S the darkness part that lasted for 1000 years.
...Getting back to the subject of Earthfall, continents do not technically sink -- save through the slow process of one continental plate being subducted under another. (New land can emerge from the process of continents drifting and plates being pushed up.)...
Yeah, but when I first read about Earthfall and Azlant, I just figured that Azlant was sitting on a massive supervolcano and a number of tectonic faults. Then along comes a chunk of rock a few miles wide and BLAMMO!
Edit: Ninja'd by Treerazor!
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Yup; as part of my work revising the Campaign Setting, I designed the rest of the continents. That version of the map is relatively detailed as far as coastlines are concerned; the version we'll be running in the book is a bit less detailed but more "in game" realistic so that folks can see the basic locations of everything. I might end up posting both in a side by side comparison here on the blog in a few months if folks are interested...There IS a World map ????? WOOOT !!!Earthfall covered almost an entire hemishpere of the world;I really can't wait to see that world map in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Will it be shown on the blog sometime?
So does this mean we'll actually get barrier islands and such along the coastlines finally? The inner sea coasts always seemed so bland.
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When I say "Azlant sunk" that's not 100% accurate. It was hammered hard by Earthfall, and today Azlant looks a lot more like a sprinkling of hundreds, perhaps THOUSANDS of islands arrayed around a lot of relatively circular seas, basically. There's lots of fragmented canyons and cracks in the land, and a fair amount of the continent, weakened by the strikes, has crumbled into the ocean or collapsed into the Darklands. In fact, if I remember correctly, "Into the Darklands'" entry on the giant sea in Orv talks about the relationship with Azlant...
And as for the "Thousand years of darkness" caused by Earthfall, there's a bit of metaphor going on there. The "darkness" itself lasted for a relatively short time; probably only a few years, in fact, but the ice age/mayhem caused by that certainly caused a darkness of civilization and hope. THAT'S the darkness part that lasted for 1000 years.
That is more or less what I thought happened. Geography is an interest of mine, as well as linguistics.
Magic -- arcane and divine -- may have helped ameliorate some of the damage, making it possible for the world and the various surfaces races get through the ecological devastation. Entire societies beyond Azlant and Thassilon -- perhaps as or even more advanced -- fell apart rapidly, with perhaps a few of their most powerful members doing what little they could in the wake of the devastation to sustain their people. Others, such as many of the elves, fled Golarion. Even in the Darklands, there would be devastation from geological instability. Some of the dwarves may have viewed the instability in some areas of the Darklands as reason to start the Quest for the Sky. Mind you, I doubt that what they saw looked like any previous reports of the surface of Golarion. (The Age of Darkness would make a good, if grim, place for a campaign setting. Your mission is not to save civilization -- but to make sure your people survive the Long Night. Indeed, the heroes could not even count on anyone remembering their names. Victory might be measured based on how many people survived each day.)
As for how bad a rockslide into the ocean could be, see this on megatsunamis. Such events may have happened repeatedly as parts of Azlant slid into the sea or were subducted into the planetary crust.
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Magic -- arcane and divine -- may have helped ameliorate some of the damage, making it possible for the world and the various surfaces races get through the ecological devastation.
I wonder if magic might have taken a hit around that time as well. Divine magic because the gods were busy doing damage control across the planet, and arcane due to the magical backlash of both Earthfall itself and Azlant coming apart at the seams.
Just to throw more gasoline on the forest fire.
...Getting back to the subject of Earthfall, continents do not technically sink -- save through the slow process of one continental plate being subducted under another. (New land can emerge from the process of continents drifting and plates being pushed up.)...Yeah, but when I first read about Earthfall and Azlant, I just figured that Azlant was sitting on a massive supervolcano and a number of tectonic faults. Then along comes a chunk of rock a few miles wide and BLAMMO!
Edit: Ninja'd by Treerazor!
Ahem.
It's TreeRAZER.
I completely destroy forests. I don't shave them.
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Creative Director
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So does this mean we'll actually get barrier islands and such along the coastlines finally? The inner sea coasts always seemed so bland.
There's some islands being added here and there, yes, but not that many. Most are being added to the Shackles and to the southern coast of the Lake of Mists and Veils. Very few are being added elsewhere.
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Creative Director
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Magic -- arcane and divine -- may have helped ameliorate some of the damage, making it possible for the world and the various surfaces races get through the ecological devastation.
I wonder if magic might have taken a hit around that time as well. Divine magic because the gods were busy doing damage control across the planet, and arcane due to the magical backlash of both Earthfall itself and Azlant coming apart at the seams.
Just to throw more gasoline on the forest fire.
Well... the Azlant god of magic died/vanished/went away during Earthfall, so yes. Yes magic did take a hit. It was a long time before Nethys came along to take up the mantle.
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Well... the Azlant god of magic died/vanished/went away during Earthfall, so yes. Yes magic did take a hit. It was a long time before Nethys came along to take up the mantle.
Magic -- arcane and divine -- may have helped ameliorate some of the damage, making it possible for the world and the various surfaces races get through the ecological devastation.
I wonder if magic might have taken a hit around that time as well. Divine magic because the gods were busy doing damage control across the planet, and arcane due to the magical backlash of both Earthfall itself and Azlant coming apart at the seams.
Just to throw more gasoline on the forest fire.
So, magic became less reliable than in the current era on Golarion. This would have proved critical in the days after Earthfall. (If spells had only a 25 percent or 50 percent failure rate, it would have made a horrific situation even worse.
Also, the crumbling of parts of Azlant into the sea would like set off tsunamis and megatsunamis from time to time.
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Well... the Azlant god of magic died/vanished/went away during Earthfall, so yes. Yes magic did take a hit. It was a long time before Nethys came along to take up the mantle.
I keep forgetting how "young" Nethys really is. :D
I'd really love to see the early age of Osirion explored some day, be it fluff or fiction. What life was like in a fantasy "Egypt", how they pulled civilization back into the light(well, like the dwarves did elsewhere), etc.
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Creative Director
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So, magic became less reliable than in the current era on Golarion. This would have proved critical in the days after Earthfall. (If spells had only a 25 percent or 50 percent failure rate, it would have made a horrific situation even worse.
Also, the crumbling of parts of Azlant into the sea would like set off tsunamis and megatsunamis from time to time.
The death of the god of magic, though, doesn't automatically equate to a drop in magic's reliability. Although it's a cool idea... it's also one that Forgotten Realms has used, and so I'm not so sure we want to do the same for Golarion.
In any event, we're unlikely to be releasing any hard and fast info about what the Age of Darkness was like for some time; there MIGHT be some more info about it in the upcoming World Guide, but not a lot. Keeping the Age of Darkness somewhat "shadowy and dark" is kind of the point, after all, of a dark age.
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So, magic became less reliable than in the current era on Golarion. This would have proved critical in the days after Earthfall. (If spells had only a 25 percent or 50 percent failure rate, it would have made a horrific situation even worse.
Also, the crumbling of parts of Azlant into the sea would like set off tsunamis and megatsunamis from time to time.
The death of the god of magic, though, doesn't automatically equate to a drop in magic's reliability. Although it's a cool idea... it's also one that Forgotten Realms has used, and so I'm not so sure we want to do the same for Golarion.
In any event, we're unlikely to be releasing any hard and fast info about what the Age of Darkness was like for some time; there MIGHT be some more info about it in the upcoming World Guide, but not a lot. Keeping the Age of Darkness somewhat "shadowy and dark" is kind of the point, after all, of a dark age.
I definitely understand about not wanting to use something that was used in the Forgotten Realms. I took magic taking a hit as being related to unreliability. There are a lot of ways that magic could have taken a hit from the death of many powerful casters, to the loss of knowledge as civilizations ended, to any number of things impacting magic itself.
As for Nethys, I imagine that he must have been the first one to come along after the death of the Azlanti god of magic who could fill the role. (I imagined that no deity in the Golarion pantheons held the role while it sat vacant -- although a few deities might have tried to seize it.) That in itself would be an interesting story -- how Nethys became a deity. He, along with Irori, are among the few mortals on Golarion who became gods without the aid of the Starstone.
Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west.
Ahem.
It's TreeRAZER.
I completely destroy forests. I don't shave them.
Well, if you upgraded to four blades, you'd be able to get the trees all the way down to the roots, which would be effectively destroying the forests.
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Well... the Azlant god of magic died/vanished/went away during Earthfall, so yes. Yes magic did take a hit. It was a long time before Nethys came along to take up the mantle.
Ooooh....aaaaah...ummm. I'd been assuming that, aside from the Starstone Alumni, the ranks of the Top 20 gods were pretty much the same back before Earthfall and shortly thereafter (early Osirioni period), and including some of them (specifically Nethys) in some really early backstory.
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Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west.
Yes, Robert E. Howard and many of his contemporaries such as H.P. Lovecraft, August Derleth, and Clark Ashton Smith do have an influence on Golarion. One can easily have a campaign in Golarion that echoes Howard, Lieber or such writers as Lord Dunsany.
Delabarre, we know that the top 20 gods in Avistan and Garund do have two mortals who ascended without the aid of the Starstone. One is Nethys and the other is Irori. (Other areas of the world may have a very different top 20, such as Vudra and Tien Xia.)
Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west.
You sir,win this thread. One could do far worse then look to the writings of REH as inspiration.
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Creative Director
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Well... the Azlant god of magic died/vanished/went away during Earthfall, so yes. Yes magic did take a hit. It was a long time before Nethys came along to take up the mantle.
Magic -- arcane and divine -- may have helped ameliorate some of the damage, making it possible for the world and the various surfaces races get through the ecological devastation.
I wonder if magic might have taken a hit around that time as well. Divine magic because the gods were busy doing damage control across the planet, and arcane due to the magical backlash of both Earthfall itself and Azlant coming apart at the seams.
Just to throw more gasoline on the forest fire.
Hmm. This Azlanti deity is not Lissala I take it, whom I associate more with Thassilon?
Nope; Lissala is a goddess of runes, not magic, and is much more Thassilonian than Azlanti. There's a bunch of new information about some of the Azlanti deities coming in Pathfinder #39 as part of the adventure...
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Creative Director
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Nope; Lissala is a goddess of runes, not magic, and is much more Thassilonian than Azlanti. There's a bunch of new information about some of the Azlanti deities coming in Pathfinder #39 as part of the adventure...Hmm, more on the Peacock Spirit too?
Edit:
Actually, if I recall correctly, the peacock spirit was supposed to be some sort of fallen celestial/fiend, not a deity.
D'oh.
Nope. Serpent's Skull is about Azlant, not Thassilon.
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...As for how bad a rockslide into the ocean could be, see this on megatsunamis. Such events may have happened repeatedly as parts of Azlant slid into the sea or were subducted into the planetary crust...(edited, tidied up)
[nerdy geology lecture] Subduction (at least on Earth), involves crust (usually oceanic crust) being shoved down/sucked down under other crust into the underlying mantle. Continental crust tends not to get subducted under oceanic crust, not least because continental crust is less dense than oceanic crust.I also have doubts that the situation of a continental landmass with assumed adjacent shallow, low-gradient, continental shelf seas is suitable for the rockslides/waves to which you refer, although I do allow that in a very specific situation (which would have to be represented very specifically on any map of Azlant that ever shows up) analogous to real world west coast South America that there might be room for such developments. [/nerdy geology lecture]
No problem. I am not a geology expert. Mind you, I do think that weakened rock could slide into the ocean. If some of Azlant was volcanic, like parts of the Canary Islands, I could see a large meteor strike causing some of the land mass to slide into the ocean. (Fortunate, no one has so far referred to the Arcadian Ocean as the Azlantic Ocean. ;) )