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Good Evening,
What would the founders of the Human race look like from a stat line point of view? What CR should they be? Spell like abilities? Supernatural? Just wanted some input. Going to have some characters come in at some point that were petrified by a medusa, &/or some vampires or wights.
Thanks for the input.
Soul
They are just human man, just an ethnic group is all. Fell free to give their spell casters any ability you like, but the Azlanti were merely human. Just advanced is all.
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They are just human man, just an ethnic group is all. Fell free to give their spell casters any ability you like, but the Azlanti were merely human. Just advanced is all.
I think they were intended as something more than human. At least that is how I plan on playing them. not Titans or anything like that put something in between the Paragon template in the epic D&D monster section and a normal human. Just like all of the good in humanity with none of the bad. You know super genes.
Sure, that is up to you, but they were just super advanced humans. They are in the campaign book under human ethnic groups. Some are still around and all that and much of the "tecH' they had is long lost. Bits of the culture still is around as is the azlant language, Much of the current magic lore can also be laid at their feet if I recall.
Sure, that is up to you, but they were just super advanced humans. They are in the campaign book under human ethnic groups. Some are still around and all that and much of the "tecH' they had is long lost. Bits of the culture still is around as is the azlant language, Much of the current magic lore can also be laid at their feet if I recall.
Those are the descendants of the true Azlants, remember that Aroden was the last of the Azlants. Their blood is tainted by human blood.
If I were making Azlants for a Chronoskip campaign, they'd probably have +4 Int, -2 Wis. The Azlants I see as similar to the Melniboneans. Arrogant and powerful, brash in their use of magic.
Those are the descendants of the true Azlants, remember that Aroden was the last of the Azlants. Their blood is tainted by human blood.
You forget the gillmen, which are pure stock, just changed to be aquatic and they are just humans.
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You forget the gillmen, which are pure stock, just changed to be aquatic and they are just humans.
Those are the descendants of the true Azlants, remember that Aroden was the last of the Azlants. Their blood is tainted by human blood.
Not quite true again, they are still a cousin to true Azlants. It states that they share a few of the traits of the deceased race. Simply stated there are none left of their race.
The Gillmen are to Azlants as Gnomes are to Fey.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Also, as to whether or not Azlanti are human, here's a quote from the wiki entry for Aroden.
Aroden was an immortal descendant of the ancient human kingdom of Azlant which sank below the waters of the Arcadian Ocean in -5293 AR, when the Starstone fell from space. The impact created the Inner Sea and cast the world into a thousand years of darkness.
Somehow Aroden survived. Thus, he is considered the "Last of the First Humans" because he was (by several thousand years) the last "pure-blooded" High Azlanti to die. Other Azlanti survivors of the cataclysm interbred with other humans and, of course, died of old age.
Bold emphasis by me.
You forget the gillmen, which are pure stock, just changed to be aquatic and they are just humans.
Those are the descendants of the true Azlants, remember that Aroden was the last of the Azlants. Their blood is tainted by human blood.
Not quite true again, they are still a cousin to true Azlants. It states that they share a few of the traits of the deceased race. Simply stated there are none left of their race.
The Gillmen are to Azlants as Gnomes are to Fey.
No, they are pure stock, just not pure human anymore. There was no mixing of blood with other ethnic groups. So if they did crossbreed with other human groups why do they still look like pure stock? And if they did not cross breed why are they just human? It's kinda clear the Az;ant were human's. I have yet to see anything, written anywhere they says they were not human.
And your example is a bit off it's more like Gillmen are to Azlants as aquatic elves are to elves.
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Good Evening,
What would the founders of the Human race look like from a stat line point of view? What CR should they be? Spell like abilities? Supernatural? Just wanted some input. Going to have some characters come in at some point that were petrified by a medusa, &/or some vampires or wights.
Thanks for the input.
Soul
As for How I would stat them up I would give them
+2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Wis- As being more aquatic affords them more effort to move about they need to be more physically robust and fluff up the rest.Amphibious
Sleek swimmer- Swim speed of 30
Water dependent- Must fully submerge themselves in water at some point each day or they risk severe internal organ failure and painful dry cracking skin and death 4D6 Hours after 24 hours since the last full submersion
Swim bonus +8 and take a 10 on swims
A modified version of the Gillmen from the Campaign book. The new one they are coming out in a while very well may have a statblock for a Full-Blood Azlant though it is several months out still.
Hope this helps?
I'd just give them the advnaced creature template and be done with it, or did you mean the oh wait, you mean the azlanti ethinic branch or the old Azlant ethnic group.
either way human stats, possible give OA the advanced creature template.
This seems a good way to go with what the OP wants,
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A convention of these sorts of settings is some sort of 'Golden Age' where the people were more advanced, etc.
It might be refreshing to make Golarion just a hair more like the real world, in that the 'Golden Age' super-Azlanti people were, in fact, not all that great, which is why they are mostly dead, and their 'ancient magics' are not as advanced as the stuff coming out of Nex or the Korvosan Acadamae or the Arcanamirium in Absalom or the Umbral Court in Nidal.
After much translation and working of figures, the Pathfinder wizard-scholar discovers that this spell was an early version of Magic Missile, acting like that spell, but requiring an attack roll and inflicting Bludgeoning damage instead of Force damage. It also takes up twice as much room in a spellbook, because magical notation hadn't been refined yet.
And we won't even talk about that Azlanti version of lightning bolt he transcribed last month that has a chance of rebounding and hitting the caster if he uses it too close to a wall (and can only damage a target once / spell, so he can't deliberately rebound it to double-tap someone)...
The Realms had a very specific 'death of Mystra 1.0, High Magic now verbotten by 2.0' clause, to explain the presence of all sorts of ancient magic that was more 'advanced' than modern magic, despite a teeming metric buttloud of uber-high level wizards crawling around the setting, and entire nations devoted heavily to magical research.
Greyhawk had a similar, if less extreme, version, with the Rain of Colorless Fire / Invoked Devastation thing.
Golarion has Earthfall and the fall of Azlant, but I'm inclined to have the Azlant-as-ubermenschen hype be just that, hype. They had a great civilization, and lots of good magic, but there's no compelling need for their magic to be better, stronger, faster than what's currently in use. It might be flat out different, and some aspects of it might *seem* darn impressive, but might represent magical workings that took years to produce and required multiple casters, and not something some bored uber-mage tossed off with a single spell.
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Thanks all.
I think I will do something like this, except take off the aquadic and swimming stuff. But anymore input would be great.
As for How I would stat them up I would give them
+2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Wis- As being more aquatic affords them more effort to move about they need to be more physically robust and fluff up the rest.
Amphibious
Sleek swimmer- Swim speed of 30
Water dependent- Must fully submerge themselves in water at some point each day or they risk severe internal organ failure and painful dry cracking skin and death 4D6 Hours after 24 hours since the last full submersion
Swim bonus +8 and take a 10 on swimsA modified version of the Gillmen from the Campaign book. The new one they are coming out in a while very well may have a statblock for a Full-Blood Azlant though it is several months out still.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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There was an article in Dragon #354 you might want to check out, Ancient PCs. It's all about playing really old characters, either immortal types or people who've been thrust forward in time (they even mention being petrified as one of the ways that might happen).
They have a feat for PCs called "Golden Ager" that sounds pretty Azlanti-ish, though I'd turn it into a trait for use in Pathfinder. Gives you some extra use out of Use Magic Device, with the idea being that back in ancient Azlant, magic was so ubiquitous that everyone knew how to use it.
They also have another feat that lets you trick bound undead and constructs into thinking you're their master, which might be a fun trick to give an Azlanti.
Really though, if you're going for a sort of Peak Human sort of feel, I have to recommend using a higher point buy.
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There was an article in Dragon #354 you might want to check out, Ancient PCs. It's all about playing really old characters, either immortal types or people who've been thrust forward in time (they even mention being petrified as one of the ways that might happen).
They have a feat for PCs called "Golden Ager" that sounds pretty Azlanti-ish, though I'd turn it into a trait for use in Pathfinder. Gives you some extra use out of Use Magic Device, with the idea being that back in ancient Azlant, magic was so ubiquitous that everyone knew how to use it.
They also have another feat that lets you trick bound undead and constructs into thinking you're their master, which might be a fun trick to give an Azlanti.
Really though, if you're going for a sort of Peak Human sort of feel, I have to recommend using a higher point buy. ** spoiler omitted **
but remember
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Sorry to be a douche here, but being aquatic is EASIER than being terrestrial. Fish heart and gil setups suck compared to reptile or mammalien ones, thats why Whales and Pinnipeds and all the aquatic archosaurs are/were so damn prolific. Going back into the water wouldnt give a Con boost.
Use whatever setup you want, but not everything NEEDs massively divergent stats, certainly not humans, when it's clearly said that the Azlanti were humans. Only ELVES get a bajillion different subraces all with different ability adjustments, which I personally think was one of the dumbest trends in 3.5 towards the end. Good freaking lord, how many were there?
The Azlanti were an Aboleth experiment, who's basic idea was "what happens when we give those hairless ape things a smidgen of our knowledge? All the other humans will be the control group." Then, the azlanti forgot that someone else gave them their knowledge, grew proud, and the aboleths declared the whole thing a wash and nuked them into oblivion with a huge freaking rock. The survivors spread and interbred with the various other early human ethnicites, spreading their culture and civilization and creating the new modern ethnicities.
There are hints that actual azlanti culture was just plain disturbing. Like, white-gold head gear and lots of slaves and magic-warped creatures disturbing. All those Democratic Philosophies that the Andorens base their government on probably left out all the bits that the Azlanti took for granted, like not allowing idiots, women, or people who arent really our sort of people to participate. Remember, Thassilon was founded by exiled Azlanti wizards, and we all know what sickos they were.
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A convention of these sorts of settings is some sort of 'Golden Age' where the people were more advanced, etc.
It might be refreshing to make Golarion just a hair more like the real world, in that the 'Golden Age' super-Azlanti people were, in fact, not all that great, which is why they are mostly dead, and their 'ancient magics' are not as advanced as the stuff coming out of Nex or the Korvosan Acadamae or the Arcanamirium in Absalom or the Umbral Court in Nidal.
I'm with Set on this one. If you compare a human of 100,000 years ago to one now, there are no physical or mental differences. The only differences are in upbringing, nothing else. Likewise, the Azlanti were probably no different to other humans. They may have had access to different kinds of magic, better architects, etc. but they themselves were not likely to be significantly different to other humans.
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This thread was as dead as the Azlanti themselves.
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Almost 6 years of necromancy! That's pretty good, Nochtal!
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Almost 6 years of necromancy! That's pretty good, Nochtal!
So long that there have been dozens of books that touch on the original subject. And we have a ton of pictures directly showing what azlanti look like.
I feel like my google fu is now wasted.
Good Evening,
What would the founders of the Human race look like from a stat line point of view? What CR should they be? Spell like abilities? Supernatural? Just wanted some input. Going to have some characters come in at some point that were petrified by a medusa, &/or some vampires or wights.
Thanks for the input.
Soul
Standard Azlanti modifiers.... Human with a +2 to every stat. As already been described.
And you're wrong in another area... the founders of the Human race were aboleths.
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Almost 6 years of necromancy! That's pretty good, Nochtal!
"And with strange aeons even death may die."
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Good Evening,
What would the founders of the Human race look like from a stat line point of view? What CR should they be? Spell like abilities? Supernatural? Just wanted some input. Going to have some characters come in at some point that were petrified by a medusa, &/or some vampires or wights.
Thanks for the input.
Soul
Standard Azlanti modifiers.... Human with a +2 to every stat. As already been described.
And you're wrong in another area... the founders of the Human race were aboleths.
That comment is about 6 years old. The OP likely won't even see it.
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Almost 6 years of necromancy! That's pretty good, Nochtal!"And with strange aeons even death may die."
With the kind of time thread this thread works on, Aroden could have ended up rezzed in an adventure path. In which case it would get even easier to see what an azlanti looks like.
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I'm confused. They were the first humans. Which makes them human. Sure, they were a pureblood line, which is to say ethnic group, but that doesn't make them non-human. Neither do their achievements. They're just as human as the Shoanti. They lived in a golden age, which doesn't impact stats at all.
I'm confused. They were the first humans. Which makes them human. Sure, they were a pureblood line, which is to say ethnic group, but that doesn't make them non-human. Neither do their achievements. They're just as human as the Shoanti. They lived in a golden age, which doesn't impact stats at all.
The Azlanti are not necessarily the first humans. They are simply a group of humans experimented upon, and bred by the aboleths and were made into a civilization that for a time towered over all others.
Their racial stats are reflected in what's given... basic Human with the flat +2 to all stats to reflect the aboleth eugenics program.
I'm confused. They were the first humans. Which makes them human. Sure, they were a pureblood line, which is to say ethnic group, but that doesn't make them non-human. Neither do their achievements. They're just as human as the Shoanti. They lived in a golden age, which doesn't impact stats at all.The Azlanti are not necessarily the first humans. They are simply a group of humans experimented upon, and bred by the aboleths and were made into a civilization that for a time towered over all others.
Their racial stats are reflected in what's given... basic Human with the flat +2 to all stats to reflect the aboleth eugenics program.
I missed the big that Paizo had actually put that into print. Thanks.
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Say you use the base 10 attribute system. Azlanti are automatically given +2 to each attribute making them base 12 in their attributes granting them 20 as a max attribute stat without the human +2 to one attribute being added making their highest possible starting score a 22 if you use the classic rolled scores. That is if you don't strip them of the baseline human race traits.
Under this assumption an Azlanti Wizard would look something like this:
(I rolled these attributes using a dice roller app)
STR: 13+2=15
DEX: 15+2=17
CON: 14+2=16
INT: 15+2+2=19
WIS: 14+2=16
CHA: 14+2=16
Feats: Improved Initiative (Starting Feat), Spell Penetration (Human Bonus Feat)
Skills: Appraise +8, Craft (alchemy) +8, Fly +7, Knowledge (arcane)+8, Knowledge (planes) +8, Linguistics +8 Spellcraft +8
Languages: Azlanti (starting), Abolith (maybe starting), Draconic, Elven, Sylvan, Common (if Abolith is not starting this is the Linguistics language), Thassilonian (if Abolith is a starting language this is the Linguistics language)
You could probably swap out some of the basic human traits for boosts to things like Spell Resistance, and maybe gain a weakness to mind-affecting effects when an aberration is the one casting the spell.
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You don't add another +2 (to any one) for being Human.
You do the +2 to all instead of the +2 to one.
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That list of stats is also wildly high by reasonable standards. They'd use the Heroic Array like anyone else (or Standard Array, or Point-Buy). A generic Azlanti Wizard would thus have stats more like this:
Str 10 (08+2)
Dec 16 (14+2)
Con 14 (12+2)
Int 17 (15+2)
Wis 15 (13+2)
Cha 12 (10+2)
And then 2 Feats, 6 skills, 8 HP, and a Favored Class bonus in either skills or HP like an ordinary Human wold have.
And they definitely didn't get Aboleth for free. The Aboleths being their masters was a very well-kept secret.
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You don't add another +2 (to any one) for being Human.
You do the +2 to all instead of the +2 to one.
I was only going by what I had seen from a couple of much older posts as to how their race traits worked. Which is why I said if you don't strip them of the baseline human race traits.
It might make even more sense to take out their extra feat and extra skill point and give them some different human friendly race traits that reflect their magic and martial legacy and add a weakness or two related to the Aboleths using them as puppets.That list of stats is also wildly high by reasonable standards. They'd use the Heroic Array like anyone else (or Standard Array, or Point-Buy). A generic Azlanti Wizard would thus have stats more like this:
Str 10 (08+2)
Dec 16 (14+2)
Con 14 (12+2)
Int 17 (15+2)
Wis 15 (13+2)
Cha 12 (10+2)And then 2 Feats, 6 skills, 8 HP, and a Favored Class bonus in either skills or HP like an ordinary Human wold have.
And they definitely didn't get Aboleth for free. The Aboleths being their masters was a very well-kept secret.
I was using the standard roll system which is why the stats are so high. Every group I have ever played with has always used roll 4 drop the lowest so we get a player or two who are godlike and a player or two who have to be healed and resurrected a lot (my rogue from AD&D 1), with one or two that are just about right (my current Hunter in RotR).
Your character has a much better balance and wouldn't even throw off the balance of a standard campaign. I would love to play a wizard with those stats.
Good point about the Aboleth language. I gave it as a possible starting language because of what I could remember of the backstory which was that Azlanti were basically slaves to the Aboleth so with that being all the information I remembered it made sense.
This <- is a link to information on Azlanti.
The actual in-game stats for Azlanti are:
* +2 to all six ability scores
* one bonus skill point per level
* one bonus feat at first level
If you're interested, here are the actual Human Alternate Racial Traits <- (this is also a link).
Those alternate racial traits are, unless specified, available to all humans, not just a given ethnicity.
Hope that helps!
I was using the standard roll system which is why the stats are so high. Every group I have ever played with has always used roll 4 drop the lowest so we get a player or two who are godlike and a player or two who have to be healed and resurrected a lot (my rogue from AD&D 1), with one or two that are just about right (my current Hunter in RotR).
Aside from the extra +2, those stats are reasonable for an Azlant PC, but NPCs unless specially noted use standard ability scores or arrays rather than rolled stats or point buy, partly to make it easier and partly to represent them as average, less-optimized people.