I have a person that's interested in playing a Psion in a campaign I'm running and I'm wondering if it would be balanced. I already know that I'd have to bump up it's HD to a d6 and then change any skills that got absorbed into other 1s (such as acrobatics, perception, etc) but what I'm really wondering about is Concentration checks. Now that Concentration isn't a skill would it still work? Or should I make another skill for it?
I have a person that's interested in playing a Psion in a campaign I'm running and I'm wondering if it would be balanced. I already know that I'd have to bump up it's HD to a d6 and then change any skills that got absorbed into other 1s (such as acrobatics, perception, etc) but what I'm really wondering about is Concentration checks. Now that Concentration isn't a skill would it still work? Or should I make another skill for it?
I had the same problem and the easiest solution was to use Autohypnosis as a replacement, and it makes sense, too.
I have a person that's interested in playing a Psion in a campaign I'm running and I'm wondering if it would be balanced. I already know that I'd have to bump up it's HD to a d6 and then change any skills that got absorbed into other 1s (such as acrobatics, perception, etc) but what I'm really wondering about is Concentration checks. Now that Concentration isn't a skill would it still work? Or should I make another skill for it?I had the same problem and the easiest solution was to use Autohypnosis as a replacement, and it makes sense, too.
Haha, wow I honestly was saying to myself while I was looking at the skills "why don't I just let Autohypnosis work for Concentration" :P I think this is probably what I'll do.
It works OK as is with just a hit-dice upgrade, a little underpowered next to a Pathfinder wizard (they lack the 'freebie' powers and cantrips so they tend to run low on power points fast at low level) but OK. Some of the powers may need a little revising, particularly metamorphosis, so you may need to avoid those or amend them on the fly.
I'm doing a wilder in a Pathfinder game that is preforming reasonably, although I'm running everything past the DM before I use it.
If you want to look at some Pathfinder-Psionics ideas, Dreamscarred Press are working on an update of all the OGL Psionics content for Pathfinder with testing and previews here.
If you are not familiar with the psionics rules, read up on them. The golden one that trips up new DMs is: a psionic character cannot expend more power points on a power than they have levels in the class that gives them the power.
If you are not familiar with the psionics rules, read up on them. The golden one that trips up new DMs is: a psionic character cannot expend more power points on a power than they have levels in the class that gives them the power.
Thank you for finding that. I knew there was some limit to how many they could spend on a power but I wasn't sure where it was.
or just do concentration like casters do now (level+ casting mod)
honestly you may wanna give them a little boost, similar to specialization school powers for wizard
No, you use the concentration mechanic of Pathfinder for manifesting powers, but use Autohypnosis for gaining psionic focus. Reason being is that the casting/manifesting mechanic relies up on the casting/manifesting class level, while you don't have to be a manifester/caster to gain psionic focus and hence don't have a manifesting/casting level to use. Psionic focus is not a class feature, it's a psionics feature.
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No, you use the concentration mechanic of Pathfinder for manifesting powers, but use Autohypnosis for gaining psionic focus. Reason being is that the casting/manifesting mechanic relies up on the casting/manifesting class level, while you don't have to be a manifester/caster to gain psionic focus and hence don't have a manifesting/casting level to use. Psionic focus is not a class feature, it's a psionics feature.or just do concentration like casters do now (level+ casting mod)
honestly you may wanna give them a little boost, similar to specialization school powers for wizard
oh, hell yeah then, by all means. AH should be used for focus.
also i love having every character i make that can use AH has +15 so you can literally memorize everything that goes on. all kinds of exploitable
From my experiences with the 3.5 Psion, they were on average stronger than a Wizard or sorcerer, so I wouldn't worry about giving them anything extra (beyond the HD bump and correcting the skills. So I would play test the original Psion before adding any new abilities.
From my experiences with the 3.5 Psion, they were on average stronger than a Wizard or sorcerer, so I wouldn't worry about giving them anything extra (beyond the HD bump and correcting the skills. So I would play test the original Psion before adding any new abilities.
It all depends on the circumstances. There's a long diagnostic of the differences here. The psion has less resources and less versatility than the specialist wizard; his only real advantage is a more efficient resource management system.
Hell, I'd just have them be a sorceror that uses the mana based spell casting variant and the psionic spell list. Too many mechanical changes with psionics.
That's interesting, but if I said I wanted to play a psion, it's because I wanted to play a psion, not play a wizard with a different casting system.
Hell, I'd just have them be a sorceror that uses the mana based spell casting variant and the psionic spell list. Too many mechanical changes with psionics.That's interesting, but if I said I wanted to play a psion, it's because I wanted to play a psion, not play a wizard with a different casting system.
I think my player would go with that answer. He wants to play the Psion because he likes the idea of it not because of the Power Points.
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You do make a good point, but if their player is anything like me, they want psionics for the flavor.
That's interesting, but if I said I wanted to play a psion, it's because I wanted to play a psion, not play a wizard with a different casting system.
then reflavor the PP variant. whats really differant about magic and psionics from a game mechanics stand point? let them be able to get psionic focus.
also there was some 3.5 feats (you can find them at crystal keep) that gave an "arcane focus" and other psionic like feats for arcane if you ever wanted to do something similar without bein psionic
(but after all is said and done, i love psionics. magic is played out imho)
You do make a good point, but if their player is anything like me, they want psionics for the flavor.
That's interesting, but if I said I wanted to play a psion, it's because I wanted to play a psion, not play a wizard with a different casting system.
The psionics system as is has become part of the flavour; part of that is the way that powers work - they tend to be more logical and versatile than spells.
You make a decent point Iconicdisaster, but I agree with Dabbler. When I want to play a Psion, I want it to be different as well. Just going with a Psychic Sorcerer just doesn't cut it for me. I'd rather not have Psionics at all than what is to me, a cop out.
I like the Psionics system from 3.5, and yes, while the classes need a slight update, there really isn't much that needs to be done.
-Consolidate Skills
-Autohypnosis for Psionic Focus, Concentration for interrupt of powers as with spellcasters.
-Change HD to better reflect what equivalent classes get for HD.
Not really too much else that needs to be done.
We have a psion (telepath) in our group as the primary caster (aside from the cleric) for a while now, and he seems to be pulling his own weight but not overshadowing the others (the PCs just leveled up to level 5). Didn't do anything to really change the psion other than consolidate the skill list and give him a d6 hit dice. The psion in the PC group does sometimes run out of psionic points during the day, so he's had to learn not to augment all his powers so much as much. I think the character has proved itself versatile enough without needing too many buffs; he has a nice mix of telepathic/mind influencing abilities, energy rays, and levitate/movement powers. The augmenting inborn to the class makes each power more versatile.
If you're interested, I did a PF Psion conversion found at mediafire.com/ElghinnLightbringer. It's in the Beguiler to Psychic Warrior file. Some is other ideas I took from other posting a while back, and others are mine. It's never been play tested so, give it a try if you want.
Yes, the main differences between psionics and magic are:
Magic: More casting power, more spells, all scaling is automatic.
Psionics: better management system, versatile powers, scaling has to be paid for.
I'm playing a wilder in a party alongside a conjurer, and they complement each other well - the conjurer sends in allies and uses illusions to confuse and misdirect, the wilder blows things up.
Yes, the main differences between psionics and magic are:
Magic: More casting power, more spells, all scaling is automatic.
Psionics: better management system, versatile powers, scaling has to be paid for.
I'm playing a wilder in a party alongside a conjurer, and they complement each other well - the conjurer sends in allies and uses illusions to confuse and misdirect, the wilder blows things up.+1
Lol!
If you're using fire or cold it's +1 for every damage die!!!
Long Live Psionics!
We have a psion (telepath) in our group as the primary caster (aside from the cleric) for a while now, and he seems to be pulling his own weight but not overshadowing the others (the PCs just leveled up to level 5). Didn't do anything to really change the psion other than consolidate the skill list and give him a d6 hit dice. The psion in the PC group does sometimes run out of psionic points during the day, so he's had to learn not to augment all his powers so much as much. I think the character has proved itself versatile enough without needing too many buffs; he has a nice mix of telepathic/mind influencing abilities, energy rays, and levitate/movement powers. The augmenting inborn to the class makes each power more versatile.
Ya I'm probably just going to up the HD to a d6, consolidate any skills, and let him use Autohypnosis to become psionically focused. He plans on playing a Kineticist but I'm not really worried about him being too powerful or anything because all the races in my game are my homebrewed creations, so 1 of the characters of course played the only large playable race with a +4 to strength as a fighter and rolled an 18 which he proceeded to put into strength. 22 Strength with a large great sword = 3d6+9 before feats.
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We have a psion (telepath) in our group as the primary caster (aside from the cleric) for a while now, and he seems to be pulling his own weight but not overshadowing the others (the PCs just leveled up to level 5). Didn't do anything to really change the psion other than consolidate the skill list and give him a d6 hit dice. The psion in the PC group does sometimes run out of psionic points during the day, so he's had to learn not to augment all his powers so much as much. I think the character has proved itself versatile enough without needing too many buffs; he has a nice mix of telepathic/mind influencing abilities, energy rays, and levitate/movement powers. The augmenting inborn to the class makes each power more versatile.Ya I'm probably just going to up the HD to a d6, consolidate any skills, and let him use Autohypnosis to become psionically focused. He plans on playing a Kineticist but I'm not really worried about him being too powerful or anything because all the races in my game are my homebrewed creations, so 1 of the characters of course played the only large playable race with a +4 to strength as a fighter and rolled an 18 which he proceeded to put into strength. 22 Strength with a large great sword = 3d6+9 before feats.
I'd just thive them some 0 level powers for some "all day" utility (since casters have free at will cantrips) and a discipline power similar to a wizards school power. and call them perfectly balanced
Yes, the main differences between psionics and magic are:
Magic: More casting power, more spells, all scaling is automatic.
Psionics: better management system, versatile powers, scaling has to be paid for.
I'm playing a wilder in a party alongside a conjurer, and they complement each other well - the conjurer sends in allies and uses illusions to confuse and misdirect, the wilder blows things up.+1
Lol!If you're using fire or cold it's +1 for every damage die!!!
Long Live Psionics!
Wilders are a great concept that just does not work in any other mechanical system. They are crap as replacements for casters, they just do not have the powers for it, but if you focus on a concept for them they rock at it. Blaster is a good build because of augmentation on energy and other damaging powers.
I'd just thive them some 0 level powers for some "all day" utility (since casters have free at will cantrips) and a discipline power similar to a wizards school power. and call them perfectly balancedWe have a psion (telepath) in our group as the primary caster (aside from the cleric) for a while now, and he seems to be pulling his own weight but not overshadowing the others (the PCs just leveled up to level 5). Didn't do anything to really change the psion other than consolidate the skill list and give him a d6 hit dice. The psion in the PC group does sometimes run out of psionic points during the day, so he's had to learn not to augment all his powers so much as much. I think the character has proved itself versatile enough without needing too many buffs; he has a nice mix of telepathic/mind influencing abilities, energy rays, and levitate/movement powers. The augmenting inborn to the class makes each power more versatile.Ya I'm probably just going to up the HD to a d6, consolidate any skills, and let him use Autohypnosis to become psionically focused. He plans on playing a Kineticist but I'm not really worried about him being too powerful or anything because all the races in my game are my homebrewed creations, so 1 of the characters of course played the only large playable race with a +4 to strength as a fighter and rolled an 18 which he proceeded to put into strength. 22 Strength with a large great sword = 3d6+9 before feats.I like the idea of free 0 level powers (if I didn't, I think this would be the wrong game.) Giving each discipline a power sounds good too.
Nomads get +10 to speed
Kineticists get Lesser Concussion
Egoists get a claws power or +2 to a physical stat
Seers get Detect Psionics
Shapers get Finger of fire
Telepaths get detecy thoughts
I'm using the 3e Psionics Handbook for the names of powers so please excuse me.
The way DSP are handling it, if you have psionic focus certain first level powers have secondary effects you can manifest without power points. Energy ray gives you a 1d3 ray, for example.