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Short swords, then blow all your money on some cheap custom Sun Blades that don't have all the extraneous crap and just are magic short swords that do damage like bastard swords. :)
(In 3.5, there was a version in, IIRC, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, that did this very thing. All the greatness of Sun Blades, none of the 'spin over head like a roflcopter to create a sunray' nonsense that jacks up the price incredibly.)
I'm being allowed to make a 12th level, human fighter. I want him to wield two weapons. What weapon should I use?
I've thought about dual wielding bastard swords but am also considering the advantages offered by using a light weapon in both hands. What do you all think I should use?
you help is appreciated,
Jamie
There are a variety of ways to go about this that require answers on your part. First, what kind of penalties are you willing to take? Second, what feats is your GM allowing you to take (i.e. just feats from Pathfinder Core or any 3.5)? Third, are you opposed to using a double weapon? Fourth, do you want to have TWF for the extra attack or for extra damage? Fifth, what are your stats (particularly your str and dex scores)? I'm sure I could come up with more, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
I'd go with dual kukris. The lower damage die sucks, yeah...but they're light and have 18-20 crit range, so you can pile on the crit enhancing feats and be Oster, the Amazing Blender of Doom!
I havent't seen any numbers on this, but I would assume a double sword would be a decent option. You get d8 damage on both ends and get the negs like you're fighting w/ a 1 hand and a light and you benefit from weapon focus/spec/etc. Just a thought.
Or even a double scimitar for the extra crit.
Sawtooth saber!
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I havent't seen any numbers on this, but I would assume a double sword would be a decent option. You get d8 damage on both ends and get the negs like you're fighting w/ a 1 hand and a light and you benefit from weapon focus/spec/etc. Just a thought.
Yep I'm with the double weapon camp... as a fighter you don't get sneak attack, or ranger damage bonuses, so a larger base damage is the way to go.
--Chop Vrocki
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*technically* Double bladed sword out does sawtooth saber on rounds you can only make 1 attack, since you can use it hand and a half.
Meteor Hammer ftw. double weapon (or reach weapon and +1 ac), d10 damage 19/x2 bludgeoning.
I had to look it up to be sure...that thing is just insane! I think the next character I have will use one of them :D. Heirloom weapon trait FTW.
Yep I'm with the double weapon camp... as a fighter you don't get sneak attack, or ranger damage bonuses, so a larger base damage is the way to go.
--Chop Vrocki
Larger base damage is good, true, but the higher crit range is really the big thing (to me, anyway). It's even more important for fighters than it is for rogues (being that SA doesn't multiply, but weapon training and specialization do, and fighters can afford those crit-boosting feats...like stunning crit...).
Kukris lose 2 average damage over a double sword, but keen kukris (or improved crit) have a 15-20 crit range...which means over 1/4 of your hits will be crit threats (well, variable, but always over 1/4 since a 1 always misses). 1/4 of your hits doubling all those damage addons and giving you some sort of nasty debilitating effect is...nice...
Two short swords (or any non-exotic light weapon for that matter) have the advantage of giving you the most feats for options. If you plan on getting EVERY 2-weapon fighting feat, every feat counts. You can get around this by taking the right race and their requisite exotic double weapon though.
And actually quarterstaff is pretty decent (due to no feat cost + being able to use 2-handed on standard actions) if you don't mind not having a high crit range. But then again, 2-weapon fighters thrive on crits.
Kukris lose 2 average damage over a double sword, but keen kukris (or improved crit) have a 15-20 crit range...which means over 1/4 of your hits will be crit threats (well, variable, but always over 1/4 since a 1 always misses). 1/4 of your hits doubling all those damage addons and giving you some sort of nasty debilitating effect is...nice...
Again, go with double scimitar. Gets the dual-kukris crit range, still considered a light off-hand weapon, but up to d6 base damage rather than d4. :)
(Unless that weapon didn't make the jump to PF... don't have the armory book to check, unfortunately.)
Again, go with double scimitar. Gets the dual-kukris crit range, still considered a light off-hand weapon, but up to d6 base damage rather than d4. :)
Well, yeah, if you're using non-PF sources, that'd be an extra point of damage. Of course, it costs a feat to pull off, too...I'd just go with the kukris, myself (maybe retrain my kukri feats to double scimitar feats at a higher level when I had the spare feat to burn for it). But the big thing is the crit range - as long as you've got that, it's stylistic choice. ^_-
Two daggers
+ poison at low level
+ magic effect at higher level
Two daggers
+ poison at low level
+ magic effect at higher level
Why daggers instead of kukris? Same damage die, same poison/magic options, but kukri has a better threat range.
Now with a dual-weapon is it 1 1/2 str bonus with attacks since you technically have two hands on the weapon?
No. But you have the option of using it as a (single) two handed weapon, if you only get 1 attack due to movement or whatever.
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*technically* Double bladed sword out does sawtooth saber on rounds you can only make 1 attack, since you can use it hand and a half.
Meteor Hammer ftw. double weapon (or reach weapon and +1 ac), d10 damage 19/x2 bludgeoning.
I had to look it up to be sure...that thing is just insane! I think the next character I have will use one of them :D. Heirloom weapon trait FTW.
thats what a cleric in my game is rockin. it makes for a fun spectacle.
Overcoming DR.. Dagger is Slashing or PiercingWhy daggers instead of kukris? Same damage die, same poison/magic options, but kukri has a better threat range.Two daggers
+ poison at low level
+ magic effect at higher level
Well, yeah, but that's not nearly as useful as the extra crit range. Dual wield kukris and carry a pair of backup daggers and a pair of backup light maces or something in case you find something with massive damage-type-based DR (most things with DR based on damage type don't have a huge DR there so it's not that big of an issue).
From a feat standpoint, the best weapon is short sword, trading up to Sun Blades at some point to max the weapon damage.
From a crit standpoint, you probably want the kukris.
From an effectiveness standpoint, you probably want sword + Shield. Kindly note that with the Aptitude enhancement from Tome of 9 Swords, all your feats from one weapon style/type translate to the other. thus, you could Grandmaster yourself up with longsword, and have all those feats apply to your shield, too.
TWF feats past the first two tend to lose effectiveness quickly, and the extra +7 to 12 AC from the shield is usually more important then the damage. You can even buy magic to get your second TWF feat, so as not to spend precious feats on it (gloves of the Balanced Hand).
Sunsword + Heavy Spiked Shield is the best TWF combo in the game. taking Shield Fighter instead of TWF is the same in feat cost, but reduces the -4 of a Heavy Shield to -2, and is treated as TWF (or use Gloves, see above).
==Aelryinth
I completely forgot about the sword and board approach. That is like the very next fighter I'm going to play...except I usually DM and I like playing Wizards and Rogues.
From a feat standpoint, the best weapon is short sword, trading up to Sun Blades at some point to max the weapon damage.
From a crit standpoint, you probably want the kukris.
From an effectiveness standpoint, you probably want sword + Shield. Kindly note that with the Aptitude enhancement from Tome of 9 Swords, all your feats from one weapon style/type translate to the other. thus, you could Grandmaster yourself up with longsword, and have all those feats apply to your shield, too.
TWF feats past the first two tend to lose effectiveness quickly, and the extra +7 to 12 AC from the shield is usually more important then the damage. You can even buy magic to get your second TWF feat, so as not to spend precious feats on it (gloves of the Balanced Hand).
Sunsword + Heavy Spiked Shield is the best TWF combo in the game. taking Shield Fighter instead of TWF is the same in feat cost, but reduces the -4 of a Heavy Shield to -2, and is treated as TWF (or use Gloves, see above).
==Aelryinth
And don't forget that Shield Master lets you wield the shield with NO penalties, which is better than any other off-hand weapon you can have.
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See if you can take an exotic weapon proficiency: saber, using the Red Mantis blade stats without the stigma of the Red Mantis Assassin's guild attached. Thus you get longswords in both hands without the added penalty.Where would I find the saber? I didn't see it in 3.5 or Pathfinder.
thanks,
Jamie
look up d20pfsrd.com or archives of Nethys
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Pathfinder only Feets
Take exotic weapon Dwarven Axe, Bastard Sword, Sawtooth Sabre, Falcata, or Urumi. Even with the pnaltie your to hit will be high enought to wont realy make that much of a difrence. With out magic bouns a level 12 fighter to hit will look somthing like. ( BAB 12 Weapon Training +2 Greater Weapon Focus +2 Str 20 mod +5 = to hit 21 - 4 two weapon fighting with out light off hand weapon = 17 )
There is the Dwarven Maulaxe, handy little thing that can function either as a Light Hammer or a Hand-Axe. There was also a nifty little piece of metal used by one of Tiamat's Green Dragonspawn, the Dragonswitchbladesomething, quite useful as it could be used as a Shortsword or an Axe, quite handy too. I'll see if I can dig up the manual and the page number.
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The main thing to remember as a fighter, and at 12th level is that your dice damage doesn't matter. At this point you want to focus on crit chance and bonus damage.(the number after the dice damage) You would also benefit from using the same weapon in both hands so that Weapon Focus and other feats that require a specific weapon will work for both weapons. the bad thing is your DR mitigation sucks when using the same type of weapon. I personally prefer the kukri as my TWF weapon because, it's a light melee weapon, and it has a high crit chance. Some people would say scimitars instead but I can't see why, it has the same crit chance, it's a one handed melee weapon, and your dice damage only goes up by two points. That's not enough to justify the TWF penalties for using two, one handed melee weapons, especially at 12th level.
Kukri ftw ?
AGREED! TWF is best for getting as many critical effects as possible. Get improved critical and as many critical effects as you can, but don't forget the weapon specialization for general damage.
With a Kurkri you will be getting a 15-20/x3 critical effect with a load of extra damage from weapon training and weapon specialization. That is a 1 in 4 chance of getting a critical.
Fighters are really the way to go if you want TWF. The secret of dealing damage in melee is a high critical range and a ton of bonus damage that is multiplied by critical, so don't worry about the amount or type of dice you roll so much. Save the feats for adding effects and damage.
Kukri ftw ?AGREED! TWF is best for getting as many critical effects as possible. Get improved critical and as many critical effects as you can, but don't forget the weapon specialization for general damage.
With a Kurkri you will be getting a 15-20/x3 critical effect with a load of extra damage from weapon training and weapon specialization. That is a 1 in 4 chance of getting a critical.
Fighters are really the way to go if you want TWF. The secret of dealing damage in melee is a high critical range and a ton of bonus damage that is multiplied by critical, so don't worry about the amount or type of dice you roll so much. Save the feats for adding effects and damage.
I'm not familiar with any way to get kukri up to a X3 multiplier. how do you do that?
Also, if people want the scimitar for TWF, and I don't know why, you could always go for Aldori Dueling Sabers. d8, 19-20 X3 crit, finessable even when wileded in 1 hand, with a unique trait to give you a +1 bonus to hit. It will give you more damage but wont get you quite as many crits, but they will be harder.
I'm not familiar with any way to get kukri up to a X3 multiplier. how do you do that?
A Fighter 20th would have the damage critical multiplier of one weapon of his choice increased by 1 through Weapon Mastery.
What about a medium creature using a medium longsword and a small longsword? The small longsword would count as light but you'd have a -2 to attack. However, all your weapon feats would apply to both longswords.
What about a medium creature using a medium longsword and a small longsword? The small longsword would count as light but you'd have a -2 to attack. However, all your weapon feats would apply to both longswords.
I think that to a medium creature a small longsword is a shortsword, and I for one would count it as such. After all, the difference between a longsword and shortsword is their size ...
Just out of curiosity...is a two weapon fighter a better damage output, or a two-handed weapon?
you could always go for Aldori Dueling Sabers. d8, 19-20 X3 crit, finessable even when wileded in 1 hand, with a unique trait to give you a +1 bonus to hit.
Aldori Dueling Sword is 1d8, 19–20/×2, not x3. If you're looking in the Adv. Armory, it's stats are swapped with the Falcata.
Just out of curiosity...is a two weapon fighter a better damage output, or a two-handed weapon?
TWF has better damage output in theory if you use, say, two short swords. This is because you get the damage boosts from weapon training and Weapon Specialisation twice rather than once, and with double slice you gain 2x Str damage instead of 150% strength as well. However, a TWFer needs a high dexterity, so you are likely to always be a little down on the Strength department compared to the two-handed fighter, which evens out the difference a little.
you could always go for Aldori Dueling Sabers. d8, 19-20 X3 crit, finessable even when wileded in 1 hand, with a unique trait to give you a +1 bonus to hit.Aldori Dueling Sword is 1d8, 19–20/×2, not x3. If you're looking in the Adv. Armory, it's stats are swapped with the Falcata.
This is correct.
you could always go for Aldori Dueling Sabers. d8, 19-20 X3 crit, finessable even when wileded in 1 hand, with a unique trait to give you a +1 bonus to hit.Aldori Dueling Sword is 1d8, 19–20/×2, not x3. If you're looking in the Adv. Armory, it's stats are swapped with the Falcata.
Then I am disappointed in it and wont be using this correction in my games, cause thats not worth an EWP.
The sawtooth saber is probably the best for two-weapon fighting (at least for exotic weapons), especially if take with Monkey Grip. Now I’m sure the idea of taking an additional -2 to attack might suck take these facts into account for fighting with 2 Large Sawtooth sabers.
1. Your swords do 2d6 damage; 19-20/x2 (Greatswords, essentially)
2. The Sawtooth Saber is STILL counted as a light weapons.
3. Anytime you wish you can use it like a greatsword (with all the normal bonuses, better because you can use it one-handed with a shield). Vice versa any effect that only works with ‘light weapons’ works too (EX: The Duelist Precise Strike)
4, You’re a Fighter. Weapon Training 2 and Greater Weapon Focus (not to mention any feats taken from Player’s Guide 2, which includes Melee Weapon Mastery) means that your still be doing the two-weapon style better than everyone else.
They will be more expensive and its not likely your going to hide ‘those’ in a crowd, but you can do worse.
(Note: Sawtooth Sabers are found in Pathfinders Chronicles page 210; below “The Sun Orchid Elixir” block)
1. Your swords do 2d6 damage; 19-20/x2 (Greatswords, essentially)
2. The Sawtooth Saber is STILL counted as a light weapons.
If your character was Large sized they might be, but I can't see anyone counting a 'large' sawtooth sabre in the hands of a medium character as a light weapon.
Aww, that true I forgot the befits of Monkey Grip don’t apply to your off-hand (since it says that you cannot wield a larger weapon in your off-hand). Surprisingly it doesn’t stop you from duel wielding them by default, the weapon is just considered one-handed so long as you have exotic weapon proficiency.
Which I guess means that while you cant duel wield two such weapons, you CAN use a large one in your main hand and a normal one in your off (An improved version of the Longsword/Short sword combo).
Thanks for the reminder.
Sawtooth saber!
A thousand times yes.