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QuidEst wrote:
It's from the possession rules in Occult Adventures, the rules interaction section.

"Domination: Dominate spells are often confused with possession, as they produce superficially similar outcomes. However, domination and possession are not the same. Domination is mind-control, enslaving the target's mind and forcing it to carry out the caster's will; thus, the caster doesn't directly control the target's body. The target's dominated mind merely carries out a mandate given by the caster with the means, knowledge, and experience it has available."

"At 20th level, a mesmerist can permanently mentally enslave a creature. When the mesmerist successfully affects the target of his hypnotic stare with an enchantment spell that requires a saving throw, he can force that creature to attempt a second Will saving throw with a DC equal to the spell's DC. The DC is reduced by 5 if the monster isn't a humanoid. If the creature fails, it becomes a permanent thrall to the mesmerist (as dominate monster) until the mesmerist dies. If it succeeds, it can't be affected by rule minds again for 24 hours. A mesmerist can have only one creature enthralled at a time. If he enthralls a new creature, the previous one is set free but is unaware that it was enthralled by the mesmerist."

Your arguement is invalid as this mimics the spell Dominate Person, it is not a possession effect, the person is your thrall not your minds vessel - the dominated mind will swap with the new possessor, but remains dominated.

If anything you have just agreed with what I said. Yes someone who uses possession can override the Dominate effect but its still active so once the possession ends the Dominate is still active. And if anyone targeted the newly possessed body, the possessor's consciousness would be the target, not the Dominated creature or its Dominator


Where does it say that you effect the host's mind?

The possessed creature still has a mind of its own, its will is dominated. Please site the exact reference to this rule otherwise please don't post homebrew in here, I want honest answers based on the game environment not your concept.


Our campaign is a modified gestalt campaign

Modified in that you can only take 1 class on either side, no 50 class gestalts going crazy with +20 saves or 20d6 sneak attack

That said, I was looking at the classes from Occult Adventures and Path of War and would like to use either an occult class(not Kineticist or Mesmerist as Kineticist is too easily broken and Mesmerist is a bit of an arguing point in my group presently) or Warder/Warlord from the PoW book

What I am having trouble with is finding a nice fit that I like when combining them. Psychic is nice and it's INT matches Warder, but then theres the MAD issue of being locked into STR for combat with Warder, needing WIS or CHA for Phrenic Pool, etc.

I was looking at Warder and its very flavorful(we modified the full round counter to only giving you 1 extra use of your counter without expending the manuever as otherwise it makes the entire party nearly invincible at level 13 and 100% invincible at level 17 using the Iron Tortoise counters from 7th and 9th) but I can't decide what to throw with it. I feel like Paladin is nice but then you add in MAD again. Ranger would be excellent with their defense area ability except they run Combat Expertise off INT so MAD again taking away from combat strength.

Warlord is nice and Paladin would fit with it but I rather hate playing "Marshal" type roles and doing nothing other than Bard buffing. Warlord/Psychic could be fun but again MAD

It seems like none of the Occult Classes or the PoW classes can gestalt well without generating MAD unless your silly and send a Psychic/Wizard(which I detest because theres no real synergy and your action economy is miserable - hate split 9th level caster gestalts) or something similar

Anyone have any thoughts on my idiotic rant here?


Our campaign is a modified gestalt campaign

Modified in that you can only take 1 class on either side, no 50 class gestalts going crazy with +20 saves or 20d6 sneak attack

That said, I was looking at the classes from Occult Adventures and Path of War and would like to use either an occult class(not Kineticist or Mesmerist as Kineticist is too easily broken and Mesmerist is a bit of an arguing point in my group presently) or Warder/Warlord from the PoW book

What I am having trouble with is finding a nice fit that I like when combining them. Psychic is nice and it's INT matches Warder, but then theres the MAD issue of being locked into STR for combat with Warder, needing WIS or CHA for Phrenic Pool, etc.

I was looking at Warder and its very flavorful(we modified the full round counter to only giving you 1 extra use of your counter without expending the manuever as otherwise it makes the entire party nearly invincible at level 13 and 100% invincible at level 17 using the Iron Tortoise counters from 7th and 9th) but I can't decide what to throw with it. I feel like Paladin is nice but then you add in MAD again. Ranger would be excellent with their defense area ability except they run Combat Expertise off INT so MAD again taking away from combat strength.

Warlord is nice and Paladin would fit with it but I rather hate playing "Marshal" type roles and doing nothing other than Bard buffing. Warlord/Psychic could be fun but again MAD

It seems like none of the Occult Classes or the PoW classes can gestalt well without generating MAD unless your silly and send a Psychic/Wizard(which I detest because theres no real synergy and your action economy is miserable - hate split 9th level caster gestalts) or something similar

Anyone have any thoughts on my idiotic rant here?


Azten wrote:


Similicrum isn't how he retaliates, it's how he adventures. In that example, Mesmerist targets somethings immune, from what I can tell.

Even though immune, Mesmerist still has a 50% chance of controlling it with his stare, and then he would immediately know that isn't the real one


QuidEst wrote:

Psychic proceeds to retaliate, and since you aren't using Greater Possession 24/7 on a simulacrum of yourself to get immunity to mind-affecting spells from chumps who don't realize it without leaving a vulnerable body to coup de grace somewhere, you actually have to make the saves. Phrenic pool for boosted DC. And selecting an 8th level spell from the Wizard list means being able to target your weak fortitude save. Or maybe Time Stop plus a few rounds of preparation are in order? Or just Plane Shift/Teleport away.

I'm not sure how the Psychic would get to retaliate in your example? Are you saying thats what he would do if he went first? What allows him to break the dominate effect?

Endency wrote:
Except he doesn't even have to look at them. Really he doesn't even have to know theyre there. Just every turn throw out a 30 foot radius stare aura and see if you ping something.

EXACTLY! I would be more okay with an actual anti-bard. Instead of Hypnotic Stare, something like Hypnotic Aura that debuffs in the exact same manner as a Bard song using the same action economy only as a psychic effect rather than sonic. This would give it the will save instead of being automatic(though past precident with similar witch/wizard abilities don't allow or care for saving successfully) and still let you tack on the extras.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

The bolded part is the one that bothers me the most. At least give the target a Perception or Sense Motive check or Will Save to notice, and I could call it good.

I don't even mind eliminating this, I just feel like why bother, who cares unless your player is a butt and abuses using this outside of combat?

"Arcaian' wrote:
You might have DCs that are somewhat competitive with a 9th-level caster (your primary stat will rarely be as high as the 9th-level caster, as most Memserists have something else than spells they use, so won't be able to pump it up quite as much), but you miss out on the incredible Wizard/Sorc spell list, have fewer levels of spells, less versatility as a spont caster, get your spells later too.

They are above a 9th level casters DC until the final 6 levels assuming you go that high. It's not the average player I was discussing, it was abusive optimists. The average player will play them as a bard type utility caster not a turbo caster as I initially described but then my DM only looks at worst cases so thats what I am asking we look at here. Utility aside, the power level of the abilities is whats in question not the fact that he can't cast mage hand or flight.


Imbicatus wrote:
That's your entire build over 20 levels, and you'll never have access to 9th level spells are the versatility that brings. There is also the fact that if you get intimidated you can't cast at all.

True, but one of the Mesmerist tricks is to ignore those effects for 1d4 rounds as a free action which you would almost certainly implant on yourself on a daily basis and in worst case she could use Touch Treatment but honestly there's a held item for 8k that stops that from being an issue at all, Padma Blossom. As I recall it also can be used to cast Calm Emotions twice per day but that's irrelavent

EDIT: And if you were building an Enchantment focused(save or die style) character, thats probably the build I would use, though a wizard would get extra class granted bonus feats along the way(none of which would help push their save DC's beyond what I listed as far as I can find). I also missed one situational bonus above. Eldritch Heritage gets you the Arcane bloodline power to add 1 to the DC of a spell affected by a metamagic if it wasn't Heighten, so you use the metamagic to remove the logic component from Feeblemind which bumps it to a 6th level slot and now the wizard/sorcerer/bard/magus/etc needs to make a 38 save DV from the built in Feeblemind penalty. If anyone fails the Feeblemind save you don't really care if they pass the Dominate save as they're at useless INT 1 for the spells duration


There has been a debate about a lot of things recently among my circle mostly having to do with the Path of War material, however this one came up from Occult Adventures(Paizo published)

Mesmerist Hypnotic Stare is all-in-all a better Evil Eye hex. It only reaches -3 instead of -2 but is done as a swift action, without duration and without target having knowledge of ever being effected(arguably more a fluff than anything because when do you ever see the BBEG change target to the witch/wizard/bard/cleric for casting 1 debuff). On top of it being swift, it stacks up to 5 extra debuffs on the target. Mathematically it is the same as giving a wizard spell saves 2 spell levels higher at 1-2, 1 higher at 3, 2 higher at 4, 1 higher at 5-7, 2 higher at 8, 1 higher at 9, 2 higher at 10, 1 higher 11-14, and break even for the remainder except for 16 where your 1 higher.

This isn't much granted, and assumes the player is building full caster route with no focus on combat at all. But there is something to be said for forcing any character to make a DC 34 save with a minimum -3, reasonably -7(if you make the target shaken and sickened[with a quicken rod you could hit them with both of those round 1 from will based affects and make it pretty certain they stick]). Oh and don't forget your rolling 2 dice for all saves and taking the lower thanks to one of the stare bonuses

Is it just me or should a 6 level spell caster not be able to outdo a 9 level spell caster? Also as a free action he gets to tack on a second DC 34 save with -3 to -7 penalty on the lower of 2 dice immediately on failing the first one to permanently dominate the person at 20th..

Yeah there's easily 5 spells I can think of by level 20 that can remove or suppress it for the fight but its going to be a DC 31(11+Caster Level) to dispel the affect with any amount of certainty... and that assumes they have one or more of those prepared

I know an enchanter wizard/witch with evil eye can emulate this as well but they need a standard action separately to apply the dominate affect, the enchanters 30' aura of -2 cannot be increased and has a limit of rounds per day, and the witch needs a standard action to apply her -4 to saves and a move to keep it up with cackle.

On top of that you get limited sneak attack type damage against the target once per round(though this I particularly don't mind) and one of the debuffs the stare applies penalizes their save DCs by that much!

Am I just imagining things or should it not be possible for a Bard/anti-Bard to outshine a 9 spell level class so easily with the same feat build?

For reference, the feats are:

Any 3 Metamagics(needed for Spell Perfection and just handy)
Spell Focus(+1 DC for Enchantment)
Greater Spell Focus(+2 DC for Enchantment)
Spell Perfection(doubles the Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus bonuses for 1 spell)
Skill Focus(needed for Eldritch Heritage chain)
Eldritch Heritage(Arcane bloodline, needed for Greater)
Improved Eldritch Heritage(needed for Greater)
Greater Eldritch Heritage(+2 DC to 1 school - Enchantment)

That's a total DV adjustment +6 from feats/abilities granted by feats, so the math is:

10(base)+6(Spell Level)+10(18 base CHA + 2 Racial + 4 from levels + 6 from a headband)+1(Ioun Stone)+1(Trait bonus)+6(Feats)


On her advanced powers card, both sides list a power feat to use a d12 instead of her normal die, but her normal die is already a d12, is this a misprint? I saw nothing in the errata about it?


Single melee strike is standard action, spells are standard actions(mostly). My DM insists if you cast a spell you can't make attacks of opportunity, regardless of being a magus holding a sword and casting. Anyone have a point of official reference either way proving one of these conclusively? If I cast a std spell but can't make an AoO even though armed, why should a fighter who uses the same time to shout while swinging a sword??


Single melee strike is standard action, spells are standard actions(mostly). My DM insists if you cast a spell you can't make attacks of opportunity, regardless of being a magus holding a sword and casting. Anyone have a point of official reference either way proving one of these conclusively? If I cast a std spell but can't make an AoO even though armed, why should a fighter who uses the same time to shout while swinging a sword??


Quantum Steve wrote:
Quote:

Quote:


5) Does Deflect/Snatch Arrows work on bombs? If so, snatching the bomb makes it inert correct?

Correct.

Incorrect

As per the bombs class feature, if anyone other than the alchemist touches an active bomb, it explodes. Both Deflect and Snatch Arrows feats require you to touch the projectile thus detonating it.

EDIT: This is actually the delayed bombs class feature but I assume the bomb explodes on impact as all splash weapons do


Name Violation wrote:
WHen the entry for alchemist bombs say "Discoveries that modify bombs that are marked with an asterisk (*) do not stack. Only one such discovery can be applied to an individual bomb." does that mean i can drop 3 inferno bombs and stack the damage in the same spot for 3 reflex saves each for 6d6 every round?

As I understand it, they do not stack. The inferno bomb sets up an Area Effect of fire damage, similar to cloudkill and wall of fire. Multiple Cloudkills and walls of fire produce the same effect: a cloud of killer gas or a wall of fire, thus I cannot see reasonably allowing the stacking of 3 Inferno Bombs on the same square or area of squares. Can you really have 3 Inferno's in the exact same spot? - No


1- After years of camping I can say a campfire sheds about 15-20 feet of normal light and the same as dim. Since its ground level and a torch is held at or above head height I would say less than a torch but the fire is about the same.

2- The Alchemist is just that, a Potion making bomb throwing alchemist. The developer's have already made it clear they do not qualify for any prestige class where having caster level X is a requirement so I have to say no the trait doesn't work(how can you not use alchemy to qualify for a PrC then, using the same class feature, still qualify for a trait that would boost said feature.

3- Have their powers refresh each day at dawn... it is so much easier to keep track of having everyone's abilities refresh in the morning rather than having them pick different times of day, especially since other than spells, no class features have restrictions as to resting X hours first.
** Alternatively, I played with a group where the GM had a time dial and marked on it when players used their powers and they wouldn't recharge until 1 day later.. this seems like a hastle keeping track of when uses of lay on hands recharge individually if I were doing it but it was interesting.

**EDIT**
The Alchemy class feature says you use your Alchemist level as the caster level for your potions brewed - this again means you have no caster level but rather a class feature is being used as a substitute for crafting and duration and other effects based off of CL


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I couldn't find an answer, official or otherwise, so here goes:

Can I use Combine Extracts to make a double Vomit Swarm Extract? Its description says you can make an extract with two formulae in it, however it does not state specifically that you can(or cannot as case may be) make both formulae the same.

Obviously for most extracts like bull's strength or ant haul this would do nothing. But if you can do this, double vomit swarm could give you a 1 standard(or move with accelerated drink trait) action summon 2 swarms that scale with level for a decent combat assist.

Anyone have a ruling to reference here(gives puppy eyes at Mr. Jacobs)


Can you use the Brew Potion feat to brew potions of your extracts if they aren't normally able to be made? I know the Alchemist can use Brew Potion with the Cure X Wounds spells to make potions, but they are already able to be brewed anyway. The issue here is could an Alchemist brew a potion of say Ant Haul or perhaps Detonate(evil grin).

A major reason I ask is could this situation: Could I brew a potion of Alchemical Allocation to give to party members so that they could use their own potions twice. Then I could brew a potion of say Vomit Swarm off my extract list, thus they could create 2 vomit swarms, as well as anyone else who wanted, including my own 2 using my extracts. I realize I can do this with the Infusion Discovery however I am looking for an answer here so that should I be separated from the group for an extended period or vice versa, they could have a longterm backup instead of filling my Extracts prepared slots.


My DM has banned the Holy Avenger PrC from the APG for 1 reason:

A Cleric 10/ HA 10 would have BAB +17, full channeling, 9th level spells, and 10d8+10d10 hit dice, while only giving up 10 levels of domain abilities.

Anyone else see this as a broken class? The way I see it is if your not a Clr10/HA10 your more than balanced, like a paladin or cleric fighter. I just don't get it.


I don't need to build these, they are too easy to make powerful for the reasons listed that you feats and stats are hardly relevant:

#3: Monk of Four Winds... because you become immortal and can take 3 standard actions two+ times per day

#2: Antipaladin... because its an Antipaladin and its dps can be ridiculous.

#1: pointed out by a friend, ignoring the lvl 11 restriction: Holy Vindicator - Cleric 10/HV 10 gives you strong fort and will, 10d8+10d10 hit dice, +17 BAB, and 9th level spells, as well as free maximize or empower when healing yourself. Obviously less broken with paladins and you only get lvl 10 domain powers but who cares!?


Does this combo still work? In 3.5 it did, and in pathfinder it says a monks unarmed strikes count as both manufactured and natural weapons for spells and effects that enhance or improve. Does this mean you qualify for the Improved Natural Attack feat which requires you to have a natural attack and base attack +4?


Was not aware of the change to spiked chain in paizo, thanks.

With regard to reach, every character has reach 0-5'. It makes the charts a little less confusing to omit the 0. 0' reach means you must enter an opponents space to strike at it. 5' reach is you can attack anything up to 5' away, since 0' is less than 5', a character with 5' reach may attack freely at 0-5'.


Reach weapons double your base reach but you can attack or provoke within your base reach(the 2 main exceptions to this being Whip and Spiked Chain).

The Doubling pointed out by your quote of James Jacobs is wrong. Double = add refers to stacking multipliers, not reach weapons. A rule of reach weapons is that you increase from 0-5' with tiny creatures since you cannot physically double 0. This is the only case in which reach adds, everything else it does in fact double or triple(just look at your quote above from PRD - a lagre creature gains 15-20' reach but loses its 5-10' - thats double, not increasing to the next tier).

A colossal creature with a reach weapon would go from 5-30' reach, to 35-60' reach.. it would be unable to attack anything within 30' of it.

*With a Spiked Chain you threaten and can attack your entire range out from min to max, so a colossal with a Spiked Chain would have an effective reach of 5-60'.

**With a Whip, you TRIPLE your base reach! You may also attack the entire zone. So a colossal Whip would give you a reach of 5-90'. That said, Whips are terrible weapons for colossals - they basically say I can trip anyone within 90' of me but do nothing else. As noted in the weapons description, a Whip deals 0 damage to any creature with an Armor bonus to AC of +1 or more, or a Natural Armor bonus to AC of +3 or more. This means the entire party will take 0 damage from it(even super squishy caster guy). Secondly, you cannot make attacks of opportunity with a whip. This gives the entire party a 90' radius from the creature of "We dance around and you do nothing to us so lets all have a giant party with lots of beer as we laugh at Mr. Colossal I Can't Do Anything Man".

As stated the only reason for a colossal whip RAW would be to trip as your attack actions at up to 90'/18squares away.

EDIT:

Your reach table is as follows

Size: Tiny > Medium > Large > Huge > Gargantuan > Colossal

Base: 0' > 5' > 5-10' > 5-15' > 5-20' > 5-30'

Reach Weapon: 5' > 10' > 15-20' > 20-30' > 25-40' > 35-60'

Spiked Chain: 5' > 5-10' > 5-20' > 5-30' > 5-40' > 5-60'

Whip: 5' > 5-15' > 5-30' > 5-45' > 5-60' > 5-90'

Hope that helps.


My DM from 3.5 had a nice way of dealing with this topic.

Evil Poison - Anything that causes damage or loss of stats and/or hitpoints, potentially killing or indirectly causing the death of the target(death by losing hp from con, putting someone in a coma from 0 int).

Non-Evil Poison - Poisons used to subdue without any damaging effects(sleep, paralyze, fatigue, etc.)

Also, Non-evil poisons can be used in evil ways. If you paralyze someone in the water, they will drown - this would also be evil.


Where's day Gunz!?

I know they reroll 6's on damage but anyone know the stats offhand like range, damage, threat range and reload time?


this was more of an opinion question. Better worded as what are your personal favorites of each level


Just curious what everyone thinks are the best illusions to take at each level for an illusion specialist wizard


Pathfinder uses the d20 rules set down by WotC and expands, changes, or creates what it needs to.

WotC 3.5 rules are illustrated clearest in Complete Scoundrel under skill tricks. Specifically False Theurgy. To paraphrase, you cast a spell using the verbal or somatic or both components of another spell of the same level. This in turn then makes the spell unidentifiable by the normal means of using spellcraft as well as making it uncounterable by normal means(only dispel magic and its spinoffs can be used).

Since Paizo has never published anything to the contrary of this above example, it stands as the precident. If you cannot identify the verbal or somatic, you cannot identify the spell. If you Still+Silent+Eschew a spell, it is identical to the function of a Spell-like ability. Though it still provokes for you needing to focus on the casting, you cannot identify an SLA being used, so the same again applies.

Bottom line is a spell with no components is essentially a spell-like ability and should thus be treated as such: subject to saves/sr, provokes for needing concentration/focus, cannot be identified until it takes effect, only difference is if you know its coming and have a ready action you could coubterspell it with a dispel magic.


So this whole chain is meaningless based on the first 2 lines of Spell Resistance in the Pathfinder PHB:

"Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check(1d20 + caster level)at least equal to the creature's spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature."

So the Monk has SR, big deal, if he isn't actively trying to resist the spell, the SR does not apply. That much is very clear in the first 2 sentences of the description. Why did this ever do on this long lol.

Yes spell resistance is checked first before saves are made to reduce die rolling, but the decision to resist the spell in the first place comes before the checking of the SR or the saving throws, otherwise neither will be warrented.

I don't have any idea why they added that last sentence... And this is just my opinion, I know the rule so no barking please lol.


Scale it with level.

1 SR = Lvl +2
5 SR = Lvl +6
10 SR = Lvl + 10
15 SR = Lvl + 14
20 SR = Lvl + 18

This way a caster with Lvl = to your level will not automatically pass the roll, and it will become increasingly difficult yet not impossible with Greater Spell Penetration.

Figure at 20th with GSP, a caster would have 20+4+1d20 vs. 38

This means they need to roll a 14+ on a d20 to cast on you, which is a 35% success rate. Give him strong Reflex and Will saves so counter all the area and mental spells wizards throw and give him 3/4 bab with d8 hit die.

Beyond that I leave it to you.


Seriously, I am interested in seeing what its about. From what I gathered it's an alternative system that works more like a Strategy type game where players try to build up an empire and expand it through their adventures(I like this idea a lot). Before I go wasting money on a book I may not want, I was wondering if this is a correct assumption was accurate or if I am totally way off base here.


I would call it something else, Witch Hunter was an alternative title given to Church Inquisitors which is going to already be a new class.. Mage Slayer works(after the 3.5 feat line) or something to that effect.


I just don't get why anyone can search for any trap. Used to need a rogue for DC25+ but now anyone can find it no problem with enough perception. Rogues only get half their level as a bonus and since wisdom is usually a low state for them anyone with high wisdom and Max ranks(ie Inquisitor) will most likely be <= a rogue

Of course only rogues can disable them.. but then y let anyone find them?


Welcome to the paizo crew.

You really can't compare 3.X with Pathfinder. Everyone is used to 3.5 so they end up liking Pathfinder for its similarities while being able to adapt to the subtle changes. 4e is a completely different game. The only resemblance is the names of races/classes/monsters/the game. The combat system ensures equality between classes in different respects. They purposefully try to eliminate optimization so as to keep the game balanced. As such, multiclassing ends up being a hindering feature while prestiging(via paragon and epic paths) is mandatory.

Pathfinder is similar however in that they compressed skills together and tend to focus on single base cladding rather than multi or prestige. Not to say its not possible but you get more benefit from taking a core class to 20 than in previous editions so multiclassing or prestige may be less desirable compared to base class 20 benefits.

Those are the main points I find different but there are plenty more. But still you should treat them as 2 different games


Though if you are using Pathfinder/Paizo rules in your game, check the save progressions. In 3.5 they were higher than with Paizo's PrC's so I would adjust them down accordingly.


I would say since Rapid Shot explicitly states:

"when making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon"...

that you could not use it if you melee in the same round. It seems pretty clear it wants you to make all your attacks as ranged attacks in order to trigger rapid shot, so melee is out.


would you say crazy good or overpowered to the point of nerf/banning?


So I went as is with +2 to any state like humans. Now my problem is my DM saying racial subs for wizard 1&5 are way overpowered. I don't see it honestly, the level 1 dual specialization in illusion and transmutation - they are two of the weaker ability pools overall. And the level 5 trades your free feat for the ability to swap your familiar whenever u want.


Honestly it can go either way.

Pro: Your BAB increases and Power Attack/Combat Expertise scale based on BAB so they could jump up with it.

Against: You must decide whether or not to use Power Attack/Combat Expertise before rolling your attacks, so the penalty is set before your flurry begins where your BAB is considered higher.

It is honestly up to the DM to decide.


The most fun I had was in a restricted game where items didn't count(as GM ruled). It really archetypes the races nicely, and encourages more strategy and planning ahead so players aren't all able to do everything eventually.


Xen wrote:

When Enlarge Person is cast, does the target gain the benefits from the increased size as well as the adjustments stated in the spell's description, or do the adjustments stated in the description replace the size adjustments?

Which specific size adjustments do you mean?

You become 1 size larger and gain everything that comes with it. The ones listed in the book are assuming you are going from medium to large or small to medium.


StabbittyDoom wrote:


The headband specifically says that the extra ranks from intelligence it gives you have to be max-rank skills and those skills are set at headband creation. No doubling up. I would have hoped you would have read the entry in light of above comments on the item.

Firstly, I agree with your interpretation of the only 1 skill not 2 per +2(1 as a rank and 1 as an auto max). That said...

Please cite the reference as to where they clarified this, as it isn't in the reference document I use. Also I am fully with you on this item but now I gotta convince a DM about it too and the dude is very... stubborn...

Mynameisjake wrote:


What? The "wonderful people" FREQUENTLY weigh in on rules discussions, something which is virtually unheard of in the industry. What they don't do is waste their time on questions that have been asked and answered numerous times.

The reason for the existence of the Rules thread is to seek help from other players. Why exactly would the designers waste their time on questions that community is perfectly capable of answering?

I hope in time there is a Rules Compendium type section on the website that all the previously officially answered questions can be posted in so people like me don't ask questions, only to have people like me respond to them :P


StabbittyDoom wrote:
@VW: A bonus is considered permanent if it lasts more than 24 hours. If you have had a headband on that long, it counts.

Going strictly by that though, a Headband of Vast Intellect would in fact provide 3 benefits. +2/4/6 to INT, +1/2/3 skills at max ranks, and +1/2/3 additional skill ranks per level since you have a higher INT modifier. I highly doubt that was what was intended here.

EDIT: Just curious, here you have an entire forum section devoted to rules questions. Why is it we only ever get players telling other people their interpretations and what they found in the sources they have access to? Why don't the wonderful people who published this lovely material ever clarify the rulings for us, since they had intended them to be used in certain ways?


True, but if you really want the INT that badly, why would you waste twice the cost on an item that cannot be improved instead of paying 1.5 times the abilities price and tacking it on to the same headband?


You should add a Cleric in there to Create Water so they have something to clean with, and send the Bard to the local store to haggle over some discounted soap..

Who says it's just the Wizards job :P


erian_7 wrote:
Nope, the ioun stone bonus can easily be made permanent by implanting the ioun stone (as noted in Seeker of Secrets) or else setting it in a wayfinder. Also, they do not have to be removed at night--they may be voluntarily stowed, but this is not required. In either case, the user then has an Enhancement bonus to Intelligence that lasts more than 24 hours, and thereby gains bonus skill points.

IF you wanted to get it implanted, or set it in a wayfinder, you could, I concede the point.

However, you would need to acquire either of those(iono how common wayfinders are but looks like thats another target for theives, or how hard it is to implant as I don't have the Seeker of Secrets) as well as the Ioun Stone(which costs double what a headband of intellect does and is not upgradable to +4 or +6 as the headband is)

So you are spending twice the amount base, plus an extra 500/18k/70k/136k gold on a wayfinder, or taking the time and materials and whatever else is involved in implanting.. or you can spend 4k on a headband, your arguement of it being easy sorta seems empty by comparison, it's not simple, simply illogical and not efficient in the least.

EDIT: I would definately agree with you 100% on your previous edit about them stinking.. phew was that a rotten zombie or your INT item?


Aelryinth wrote:

Untrue. it would simply rotate above you instead of around you, i.e. change the axis it spins around.

Nothing there that says you have to take an Ioun stone off at night. where did you read that?

==Aelryinth

It is an assumed automatic, so shady inkeepers or clever theives don't simply snatch them while you sleep, but you're correct I should have used should instead of must.. but if you feel you wan't to leave expensive magic items free for any comers to take, so be it. A great many DM's will take you up on your offer of a free 8k gp item just for having an NPC waiting for you to fall asleep.


erian_7 wrote:


See my notes up-thread. This is specifically true for the head of vast intelligence only. Such a mechanic is not noted, for instance, in the ioun stone entry.

Thats because the Ioun stone is not a permanent bonus, they are temporary. As you so lovingly noted above:

erian_7 wrote:


"Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed."

Ioun stones take effect immediately after being applied where it floats 1d3 feet from your head. It must be removed at night to go to sleep since it cannot float around your head when your head's on a bed or floor etc., which is why it was given the activates as soon as equipped feature, which is hence why it is not a permanent bonus which would supply skill points.

EDIT: Ioun Stones grant Enhancement Bonuses, which won't stack with the Headbands of Vast Intellect or Mental Prowess


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Give them a +2 in any one ability score of their choice, and you're done.

That's what I was thinking, but I was curious if anyone thought that would be underpowered compared to the other core races.. like adding low light vision since they are 1/2 doppleganger and dopples have dark vision, or perhaps giving a limited version of mimicry..

Then again like I said I do tend to make things way overpowered


Just curious if anyone else has or could update the Changeling race from the Eberron Campaign Setting.. I tend to make stuff I like overpowered when I homebrew or else I would give it a shot myself..

And the reason? - Changeling Wizard racial substitution levels(change your familiar as a standard action once per day and more importantly Dual Specialization in Illusion and Transmutation) from Races of Eberron.

Also Recaster from the same book seems fun and I was wondering if anyone thinks it is best left as is or can be updated.

Thanks guys!


Charender wrote:

Yes, they do.

Permanent Stat boosts from leveling or wishes take effect immediately.

Boost from permenant magic items take effect after you have worn the item for one full day.

No they do not!

Watch the wording, you do not get retroactive skill points to spend, you instead get automatic max ranks, there is a big difference. Each INT item gives a certain skill for every +2 enhancement bonus to INT it provides(odd bonuses and non-enhancements give nothing). You do not gain additional skill points each level to spend on whatever you want, instead the associated skill(s) are automatically bumped up to max ranks.

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