Goblin Campaign


Advice


Hello All,
We are starting up a Goblin Campaign next week where the goal of the campaign is to eventually build a civilized goblin city. We will start off evil raiding villages and caravans to gain resources. We will not allowed to trade with any other races so anything we get will be what we find or make ourselves.
I have never played Pathfinder before but I have played 3.5 so I think I kind of get it. However, I'm mostly in the dark about character creation because I don't know what is good in Pathfinder. We are starting out with a 4th level character, it is a 25 point buy system and he is allowing us to move one of the negative abilities to another stat.
I would like a good fun character to play, but I do not want to play a rogue that would be too easy. I was thinking originally I want to play a paladin just because that would be weird, but I think he would be a horrible paladin. Then I was thinking barbarian.
Could someone please give me some ideas?


The point buy system is modified from the 3.5 version. If its your first game I'd simply use the point buy you're used to (3.5) and then make pathfinder characters.

Goblins are nasty and short. Do you have a reason for the change in alignment?

The logistics issue I see is that goblins die a lot but prosper through sheer numbers. I'd be curious to hear how you make out.

Sigurd

Sczarni

Will have a more thorough post after work.

For now, Small + Darkvision + spd 30' screams caster to me. Wizard, alchemist, cleric or Druid all work well.

Alternatively, ranger with a longbow and stealth will shred face with arrows.


Sigurd wrote:

The point buy system is modified from the 3.5 version. If its your first game I'd simply use the point buy you're used to (3.5) and then make pathfinder characters.

Goblins are nasty and short. Do you have a reason for the change in alignment?

The logistics issue I see is that goblins die a lot but prosper through sheer numbers. I'd be curious to hear how you make out.

Sigurd

Oh it's my first pathfinder, but everyone else I'm playing with have been playing it from the beginning.

The alignment change is what my DM told me metagame. I suppose we don't have to shift to Neutral.

Dark Archive

This sort of campaign really appeals to me! Read 'Burnt Offerings' in advance for some goblin flavour is my suggestion and have loads of fun!


Convoluted wrote:

I would like a good fun character to play, but I do not want to play a rogue that would be too easy. I was thinking originally I want to play a paladin just because that would be weird, but I think he would be a horrible paladin. Then I was thinking barbarian.

Could someone please give me some ideas?

Sounds like fun! I do think Paladin would be hard, since you lose both Str and Cha, but it's still not a world-ending sort of thing and could be done. (Well, you know, except for the 'starting out as evil' bit... that would make life rough, although the upcoming APG will have an anti-paladin *and* the ability to trade levels) The bonus to ride, later, would be nice, also, and as a small creature, you'd be able to take a fun mount like a Wolf.

Barbarian would be nice, the rage offsets the str loss, and the base move of 30 increasing to 40 would be snazzy.

Ranger would work out very well (+4 dex; +4 bonus to stealth, fast, darkvision), especially archery-based. [No wis loss helps the spells, too] Rogue, also, for similar reasons to ranger.

The problem with a non-caster though is the weapon size thing. Small size weapons average about 1 point less of damage than full-sized counterparts.

The charisma hit is a little icky for sorcerer, but Wizard and Cleric would both work pretty well. (The +1 to hit for size is nice when using ranged touches, and the +1 AC is also hard to beat, especially when it's a class that has armor restrictions).

Ultimately, though, I would say that there's no *unplayable* character class for any race - it's all a matter of getting the concept clearly in your head and then making a build to go with it. Goblins have it a little rough, that they're net +0 (instead of +2 like the other races), but the +4 racial to stealth and the +10 speed do a lot to counter that... and so does having a 25 point buy.

Grand Lodge

Goblin Monk, all the way.

Good, playable Class and all the fun you can imagine.

Sczarni

Tilnar wrote:
Convoluted wrote:

I would like a good fun character to play, but I do not want to play a rogue that would be too easy. I was thinking originally I want to play a paladin just because that would be weird, but I think he would be a horrible paladin. Then I was thinking barbarian.

Could someone please give me some ideas?

Sounds like fun! I do think Paladin would be hard, since you lose both Str and Cha, but it's still not a world-ending sort of thing and could be done. (Well, you know, except for the 'starting out as evil' bit... that would make life rough, although the upcoming APG will have an anti-paladin *and* the ability to trade levels) The bonus to ride, later, would be nice, also, and as a small creature, you'd be able to take a fun mount like a Wolf.

Barbarian would be nice, the rage offsets the str loss, and the base move of 30 increasing to 40 would be snazzy.

Ranger would work out very well (+4 dex; +4 bonus to stealth, fast, darkvision), especially archery-based. [No wis loss helps the spells, too] Rogue, also, for similar reasons to ranger.

The problem with a non-caster though is the weapon size thing. Small size weapons average about 1 point less of damage than full-sized counterparts.

The charisma hit is a little icky for sorcerer, but Wizard and Cleric would both work pretty well. (The +1 to hit for size is nice when using ranged touches, and the +1 AC is also hard to beat, especially when it's a class that has armor restrictions).

Ultimately, though, I would say that there's no *unplayable* character class for any race - it's all a matter of getting the concept clearly in your head and then making a build to go with it. Goblins have it a little rough, that they're net +0 (instead of +2 like the other races), but the +4 racial to stealth and the +10 speed do a lot to counter that... and so does having a 25 point buy.

Yep...pretty much what he said.

Here's my take on it:

Goblin pros: Darkvision, Small sized, +4 Stealth/Ride, Bonus to Dex
Cons: Small size (a little problematic, but nothing insurmountable), -2 Str/Cha, might have to be crazy (DM preference, of course, and PC classed anything breaks the mold anyways)

Barbarian: Str boost, even faster, and the size loss on damage is something that can be lived with.

Bard: Small is good, -2 Cha is bad. If you can deal with that loss, not a horrible choice, and something almost noone expects (Except JJ, of course...look at RotRL 1 for a Goblin Warchanter or 2)

Cleric: No significant negatives, once again, an unusual role for the race.

Druid: One of your stronger choices, IMO (disclosure: I am biased as I played through RotRL with a Goblin Druid from lvl 1 to 16 or so...he was FANTASTIC to play). Animal Companion + Ride Bonus + Decent Dex = highly mobile non-wildshape-dependent caster.

Fighter: Well, the Small size and Str penalty hurt, but Cha is no worries. Speed and Darkvision and Stealth make up for it, IMO. You're just a sneaky little tank, instead of a big old shiny one (like a Stryker Fighting Vehicle) Archery shines here (like elsewhere.)

Monk: If you can get the strength necessary, you can be a mean little super fast crotch-punching SOB. MAD, but 25 pt buy should help out there. More speed is more speed, after all.

Paladin: A very RP challenging idea, but if you're going for that, this class rocks face. I have a Gnome pally in a Legacy of Fire game right now, and the loss of damage from size ain't that bad. Cha AND Str penalty sucks, though.

Ranger: Another very very good choice for the race here. A free mount (that doesn't necessarily die in one hit), good archery feats, good skills and full BAB? Sounds pretty much perfect for a sneaky little ambusher, eh?

Rogue: Really, this is a very good class for the gobby, but since you consider it too easy, we'll skip it.

Sorcerer: if you can live with the reduced DC's and a few less spells per day, this is actually not that bad. Stealth + Speed help keep you alive, your spells needn't necessarily focus on DC's, and it's a great all around class to play.

Wizard: Well, if you want to be God, you can be. No reason you can't play a perfectly good Wizard as a goblin, pretty much similar to Halfling in that respect.

APG Classes (unless they're not allowed, but I'll just touch on them)

Alchemist: Blow stuff up with fire, and turn into a monster from time to time. Very strong choice.

Cavalier: You lose a bit on the damage, again, but a Small charger on a Medium mount is right and properly nasty.

Inquisitor: A lot of the strengths of the Ranger or Fighter, but with talking skills and different spellcasting...seems interesting, especially if you play up the "Sam Slade, Goblin for Hire" angle

Oracle: Cha loss and divine spontaneous casting doesn't scream Goblin to me, if you want this role, go Cleric.

Summoner: Summon stuff, have that stuff eat your enemies. Sure sounds like a fun time for a gobby. The only issue is the Cha loss, but not that big a deal, honestly.

Witch: Int-based, Arcane casting + Healing potential? Very very strong choice, and very thematic as well.

So, in order of recommendation:

Ranger
Inquisitor (mostly here because it's brand new)
Druid
Wizard
Witch
Summoner
Sorcerer
Fighter
then all the rest.


runs into thread with a torch, falls over, lights self on fire

Dark Archive

A Goblin Cavalier on a Wolf? Oh yes, that could be cool.

One issue with a Goblin Cleric is that if you start out following an evil god, you might have to switch gods mid-game if alignments change radically. That being said, you could always play a neutral Cleric of an evil god, and just remain neutral, following the less malicious aspects of one of the Goblin demigods or something, or follow a neutral god, such as Calistria (trickery, vengeance) or Gorum (war, armor) or Brigh (mechanical things, for a trap / gadget obsessed goblin), which allows you to be evil or good, without greatly upsetting your patron diety.

Disadvantages of being a goblin become minimized when you Wild Shape, so Druid is a decent choice.

The Cavalier is hardly the only choice for a wolf-buddy / mount, as the Druid and Ranger can also follow that route.

Witch just sounds thematic as all heck, and a Goblin Summoner, who conjures up some whacky nonsensical (perhaps even a bit goofy looking) 'monster' from his own darkest imaginings could be fun, and a perfect excuse to cobble together something ridiculous, with claws and tentacles and wings...

I haven't seen the stats for the witches 'goat' familiar, but if you could get a medium goat (perhaps via a homebew Improved Familiar feat, if not immediately), that would be hilarious, a goblin witch, riding his 'war goat' around on the periphery of combat, cackling madly and tossing hexes.


I've been thinking about female humanoids, thinking of ways to make them more than just either nameless harem/cannon fodder and/or just putting breasts on male versions of the class.

So in a campaign like this, I think I'd probably play a female goblin.

Perhaps a female bard who likes jewelry so much, that she'd like to go out and help get it. I would work towards the Virtuoso prestige class at level 7, perhaps taking levels of wizard before then so I could build up wizard spellcasting levels with the virtuoso PrC.


A lot depends on how debased goblins are to begin with.

Gender rolls can be pretty repressive and draconian. A female might have little freedom to do much of anything except raise little ones.

In your shoes I'd be careful to select out the starting goblin tribe as an exception from the start. That might make the transition feel more natural.

Goblins of the magic rock (a fallen bit of comet) or rain and sea goblins. So named because they dont fear water and swim to hunt fish.

The basis of the distinction should help identify the source of change for the tribe.

Sigurd


I am thinking that female goblinoids wouldn't put up with repressive gender roles.

I've done a lot of thinking about the hobgoblins, coming to an idea of a society where, as far as the adventurers know, the females are just draped over the great hobgoblin warriors and hovering over the goblin kids. But what the adventurers don't know is that the females have class levels of their own, and actually are responsible for hunting for the males, which allows the males to concentrate on fighting.

I had ideas for goblins, but I forget what they were. Perhaps females like to rely on trickery and magic. If they start to feel oppressed, they get revenge.

I am thinking that a goblin female could be a hideous witch, or she could be a green-skinned babe. They are probably very competitive, especially in an evil tribe, so a female who couldn't find a role to excel in might not last very long. Possible ideas:

Goblin witch who uses her magic to establish her place in the tribe.

Goblin bard who wants to be the first to pick out fancy treasures for herself.

Goblin ranger who likes to hunt. She is in this party in search of more challenging game.


Goblin witch is easy to picture , goblin cavalier or ranger is pretty awesome (worgriders !), druid mixes these concepts somewhat.

Barbarian, the biggest and brawniest of the bunch ^^

rogue, easy but worthwhile, you still have alot of options to make a goblin rogue your own.

monk, they actually make pretty decent monks, I just don't like monks myself though ^^

Oracle, pretty sure there are some nice options there for a goblin.

Alchemist, (we got explosives !)


Not a lot I could add to this other than Goblins should idealy fight on Mounts or from Stealth if at all possible. Also, Reach Weapons are their friends if they move in organised units (Think Roman Empire-style legions, short-spears, Longspears and Tower Shield in a turtle formation to blockade choke-points) or the Goblin 'melee' units should have very, very, very high Acrobatics so they can tumble past their enemies and get into flanking range asap.

In the former case ... Fighters or failing that Cavaliers with Lances (Oi!) on Worg mounts, in the latter, Rogues and Barbarians, who have Acrobatics as a Class skill and in both cases have Uncanny Dodge and it's enhancement, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and can royally !@#$ with flanking enemies while they themselves move into position.


Goblin inquisitor can have an animal companion (with the animal domain)as well, and with weapon finesse (size and +4 dex) they are actually pretty reliable hitters, with a nice smattering of abilities and skills.


I have played a Goblin in a campaign before in the Second Darkness with 2-lv ranger 3-lv rogue 2-lv shadow dancer and 1-lv assassin. He ran around with a great sword, and a longbow. in the and he had an almost 40 stealth because of the +4 racial and the +4 size mod. and could hide when near any shadow and move at full speed because of fast stealth. He was employed by one of the other players to scout to clear the way. he loved fire and was also a pickpocket in a kilt. crazy as a cat turd also. Some of the other players started to become afraid of him. The main thing with Goblins is that you have fun with them.


HalfOrcHeavyMetal wrote:

Not a lot I could add to this other than Goblins should idealy fight on Mounts or from Stealth if at all possible. Also, Reach Weapons are their friends if they move in organised units (Think Roman Empire-style legions, short-spears, Longspears and Tower Shield in a turtle formation to blockade choke-points) or the Goblin 'melee' units should have very, very, very high Acrobatics so they can tumble past their enemies and get into flanking range asap.

In the former case ... Fighters or failing that Cavaliers with Lances (Oi!) on Worg mounts, in the latter, Rogues and Barbarians, who have Acrobatics as a Class skill and in both cases have Uncanny Dodge and it's enhancement, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and can royally !@#$ with flanking enemies while they themselves move into position.

Don't forget about the possibilities of a mounted archer.


Thank you all for the good ideas. I just want to point out that my DM is allowing me to move one of the negatives to another stat, so I could move the -2 to str to int.

Also this isn't going to be character I keep forever either. I would be surprised if he lasts beyond 6th level.


A party of goblin PCs?

...

...

How has NOBODY mentioned this comic yet?

http://goblins.keenspot.com/

Great webcomic with fifth-wall breaking and dynamic characters (at least after the first few strips, when they get really developed at least). My favorite is dwarven cleric who worships the DM. But still, it's a great idea for how/why your characters give up the "traditional goblin life" and become adventurers.

There's one seriously bad-mother-lovin' goblin who becomes a paladin, since you DID mention goblin pallys.


Ok I think I decided on a class. I am going to try and make a melee druid based on Treantmonk's guide. I am in the process of building this character and it's a fun and long process.
After I get done building it I will post a link to the character sheet so people can tell me what I did wrong:)

One concern I am having so far is that he is going to have a 5 charisma, and I was wondering if that would have any major implications.


Convoluted wrote:

Ok I think I decided on a class. I am going to try and make a melee druid based on Treantmonk's guide. I am in the process of building this character and it's a fun and long process.

After I get done building it I will post a link to the character sheet so people can tell me what I did wrong:)

One concern I am having so far is that he is going to have a 5 charisma, and I was wondering if that would have any major implications.

Well you will have a pretty poor handle animal. How does your dm handle animal companions? Some require you to teach it tricks and make handle animal checks, others just let you control it. If you have to teach it tricks and command it, the 5 charisma could be a problem at low levels.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Convoluted wrote:

Ok I think I decided on a class. I am going to try and make a melee druid based on Treantmonk's guide. I am in the process of building this character and it's a fun and long process.

After I get done building it I will post a link to the character sheet so people can tell me what I did wrong:)

One concern I am having so far is that he is going to have a 5 charisma, and I was wondering if that would have any major implications.

Well you will have a pretty poor handle animal. How does your dm handle animal companions? Some require you to teach it tricks and make handle animal checks, others just let you control it. If you have to teach it tricks and command it, the 5 charisma could be a problem at low levels.

At 4th level doesn't it get a +1 to an ability score? I was going to throw that into int so it can understand words.


It says armor bonuses are lost, so does that mean if you are carrying a shield then your shield bonus is not lost?


Ok I think I have a good start with creating my Goblin Druid. Here is the link:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApKITYAMjC_7dGVUWUl2NkpWMzZHRFNiQl NMVTVBNFE&hl=en

My DM is allowing me to move my -2 to strength to anywhere I want so I moved it to int.

This is a melee druid and I plan on using Dinosaur, Deinonychus for my battle form and I plan on having an Ape as an animal companion. I'm not 100% on how to do the stats for when I am in Dinosaur mode, but I plan on figuring that out before this coming Thursday.

So please if anyone could give me any pointers on how to fully optimize this character I would appreciate it, or if I forgot anything please let me know.
Thanks,


Convoluted wrote:

Ok I think I have a good start with creating my Goblin Druid. Here is the link:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApKITYAMjC_7dGVUWUl2NkpWMzZHRFNiQl NMVTVBNFE&hl=en

My DM is allowing me to move my -2 to strength to anywhere I want so I moved it to int.

This is a melee druid and I plan on using Dinosaur, Deinonychus for my battle form and I plan on having an Ape as an animal companion. I'm not 100% on how to do the stats for when I am in Dinosaur mode, but I plan on figuring that out before this coming Thursday.

So please if anyone could give me any pointers on how to fully optimize this character I would appreciate it, or if I forgot anything please let me know.
Thanks,

Did you see Treantmonk's guides? He's got three of 'em for the druid, depending on your play style. Pretty much sums it up, frankly.


Convoluted wrote:
I am going to try and make a melee druid based on Treantmonk's guide.


Obvious Troll Is Obvious wrote:
Convoluted wrote:
I am going to try and make a melee druid based on Treantmonk's guide.

Rolled a 1 on my perception check.


/marked for inspiration

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

A Dervish Dancer goblin is an awesome thing. Ask your DM if you can use the Alpha feat Weapon swap. Also, check out the Goblins of Golarion book, great options in there.

Liberty's Edge

Goblin gunslinger(feat) Goblin gunslinger. Goblins like explosions, and a gun makes explosions when they shoot. Goblin gunslinger means they can use guns made for medium races without penalties due to the weapon being too big.

If goblins want to start moving toward civilization, they might need to invite some minor bad luck(though they work it off later), and also coordinate raids so they actually don't get 500 something heroes trying to butcher them.

If that is not allowed, then just use bolt ace. And then let him fire flaming bolts-as fire is among the many things goblins have a passion for.

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