I personally would go with dervish, as the term is possibly the most accurate I can think of in it's description a blend of warrior and mystic.
You could work on a mechanical base built around belending movement, dexterity based attacks and spontaneous magic. Sort of a mix scout, swashbuckler and sorcerer
The Dervish are probably the most well known of the many ecstatic practices, and i think that conceptually ecstatic practices offer the most interesting setting basis for fighter magic users.
Instead of schools or blood lines you could list practices from alcohol consumption through to self flagellation.
I personally would go with dervish, as the term is possibly the most accurate I can think of in it's description a blend of warrior and mystic.
You could work on a mechanical base built around belending movement, dexterity based attacks and spontaneous magic. Sort of a mix scout, swashbuckler and sorcerer
The Dervish are probably the most well known of the many ecstatic practices, and i think that conceptually ecstatic practices offer the most interesting setting basis for fighter magic users.
Instead of schools or blood lines you could list practices from alcohol consumption through to self flagellation.
There is a Dervish PrC that has a lot movement based attacks you were talking about, but no magic. If I recall correctly there was nothing inherently militant about dervishes. A dervish was just a mendicant mystic, not a mystical warrior.
There is a Dervish PrC that has a lot movement based attacks you were talking about, but no magic. If I recall correctly there was nothing inherently militant about dervishes. A dervish was just a mendicant mystic, not a mystical warrior.I personally would go with dervish, as the term is possibly the most accurate I can think of in it's description a blend of warrior and mystic.
You could work on a mechanical base built around belending movement, dexterity based attacks and spontaneous magic. Sort of a mix scout, swashbuckler and sorcerer
The Dervish are probably the most well known of the many ecstatic practices, and i think that conceptually ecstatic practices offer the most interesting setting basis for fighter magic users.
Instead of schools or blood lines you could list practices from alcohol consumption through to self flagellation.
Historical and political use of the termVarious western historical writers have sometimes used the term dervish rather loosely, linking it to, among other things, the Mahdist uprising in Sudan, Mohammed Abdullah Hassan's 1920 conflict with British forces in Somalia and other rebellions against colonial powers.
In such cases, the term "Dervishes" was used as a generic (and often pejorative) term for the opposing Islamic entity and all members of its military, political and religious institutions, including many persons who could not be described as "Dervishes" in the strict sense. (For example, a contemporary British drawing of the fighting in Sudan was entitled "The defeat of the Dervishes at Toski" (see History of Sudan (1884–1898)#British response).
There is a strong narrative strands which link the term dervish in the mind to war far, through history, literature and gaming. There are similarities in their practices to may other more clearly martial sects within islam, and to other non-islamic traditions which also embody ecstatic practices, and very often brutal and bloody combat.
Historic images of dervish, almost exclusively have them armed.
I make no claim that real dervishs can use magic, but the term does have enough resonance with both martial prowess and mystical practice that it makes a good deal of sense that a fantasy version would be a warrior mage.
Ranger - Unless he knew Tolkien (certainly a possibility if he is about to play a fantasy RPG, but not assumed), the player may be asking "What, I'm in the US Army now?"
I think it's pretty obvious that the job of a ranger is to protect people from having their pick-a-nick baskets stolen by smarter-than-average bears.
Maester could be turned a bit sideways from its Song of Ice and Fire use.
That's a good one.
I personally would go with dervish, as the term is possibly the most accurate I can think of in it's description a blend of warrior and mystic.
You could work on a mechanical base built around belending movement, dexterity based attacks and spontaneous magic. Sort of a mix scout, swashbuckler and sorcerer
The Dervish are probably the most well known of the many ecstatic practices, and i think that conceptually ecstatic practices offer the most interesting setting basis for fighter magic users.
Instead of schools or blood lines you could list practices from alcohol consumption through to self flagellation.
The problem is that in Golarian dervishes are already tied to the followers of Sarenrae. While a base class would get published in a 'generic' rule book, I think it unlikely that Paizo would print something which conflicts with their 'home' campaign setting.
(I shudder at how many times I have heard "pa-LAD-in")Speaking of which...
** spoiler omitted **
Love it.
Sword & Sorcery = sworceror! Ha! so is that a portawhat or a compound word?
Never mind that there's already a Mystic Theurge class in Pathfinder...I still like mystic. That one fits the bill to me
And does avoid the 3.5 reference problem that the Warlock has
thats different enough to me
There is a Dervish PrC that has a lot movement based attacks you were talking about, but no magic. If I recall correctly there was nothing inherently militant about dervishes. A dervish was just a mendicant mystic, not a mystical warrior.I personally would go with dervish, as the term is possibly the most accurate I can think of in it's description a blend of warrior and mystic.
You could work on a mechanical base built around belending movement, dexterity based attacks and spontaneous magic. Sort of a mix scout, swashbuckler and sorcerer
The Dervish are probably the most well known of the many ecstatic practices, and i think that conceptually ecstatic practices offer the most interesting setting basis for fighter magic users.
Instead of schools or blood lines you could list practices from alcohol consumption through to self flagellation.
There is a strong narrative strands which link the term dervish in the mind to war far, through history, literature and gaming. There are similarities in their practices to may other more clearly martial sects within islam, and to other non-islamic traditions which also embody ecstatic practices, and very...
Historical and political use of the termVarious western historical writers have sometimes used the term dervish rather loosely, linking it to, among other things, the Mahdist uprising in Sudan, Mohammed Abdullah Hassan's 1920 conflict with British forces in Somalia and other rebellions against colonial powers.
In such cases, the term "Dervishes" was used as a generic (and often pejorative) term for the opposing Islamic entity and all members of its military, political and religious institutions, including many persons who could not be described as "Dervishes" in the strict sense. (For example, a contemporary British drawing of the fighting in Sudan was entitled "The defeat of the Dervishes at Toski" (see History of Sudan (1884–1898)#British response).
The same entry also tells you that the REAL dervish is a sect of Muslim Beggars. True dervish were NEVER armed. The term was misused by the British. A whirling dervish is performing a dance of religious ecstasy, involving no weapons. No need to go offending anybody's religious beliefs.
Well, Savant fails my arbitrary google image search test.
Warlock and Magus pass with flying colors, as does Harbinger (though I do not support that name myself).
bounty hunter!!!
Kensai passes the google image search test.
It is "regional" but so are other class names.
I have to say, other than some intangible reservations, that one fits pretty damn neatly. It is a word that does, in fact, mean what we want, even if the connotation of arcane magic is lacking.
One reason to avoid Kensai would be the potential inclusion of that word in a later "eastern" themed product... buuuuuuut... such a class would invariably be very similar to the class under discussion here. Hm.
Has anyone proposed "Wuxiate" ?
Just kidding.
...There is a Dervish PrC that has a lot movement based attacks you were talking about, but no magic. If I recall correctly there was nothing inherently militant about dervishes. A dervish was just a mendicant mystic, not a mystical warrior.I personally would go with dervish, as the term is possibly the most accurate I can think of in it's description a blend of warrior and mystic.
You could work on a mechanical base built around belending movement, dexterity based attacks and spontaneous magic. Sort of a mix scout, swashbuckler and sorcerer
The Dervish are probably the most well known of the many ecstatic practices, and i think that conceptually ecstatic practices offer the most interesting setting basis for fighter magic users.
Instead of schools or blood lines you could list practices from alcohol consumption through to self flagellation.
There is a strong narrative strands which link the term dervish in the mind to war far, through history, literature and gaming. There are similarities in their practices to may other more clearly martial sects within islam, and to other non-islamic traditions which also embody
Historical and political use of the termVarious western historical writers have sometimes used the term dervish rather loosely, linking it to, among other things, the Mahdist uprising in Sudan, Mohammed Abdullah Hassan's 1920 conflict with British forces in Somalia and other rebellions against colonial powers.
In such cases, the term "Dervishes" was used as a generic (and often pejorative) term for the opposing Islamic entity and all members of its military, political and religious institutions, including many persons who could not be described as "Dervishes" in the strict sense. (For example, a contemporary British drawing of the fighting in Sudan was entitled "The defeat of the Dervishes at Toski" (see History of Sudan (1884–1898)#British response).
And we can be almost equally certain that real life clerics never spoke with gods, or performed miricles, or paladins detecting evil souls or healing with layed on hand, or wizards performing actual magic.
Regardless of the actions individuals practitioners of Tariqah, the term is still bound up with that baggage. And the fact is, there is historic evidence for weapon use amongst these individuals, but even without it, the baggage is carried with the term, making it rich fodder.
But i don't just suggest Dervish, because of the the references to their practices and the mythologisiation that surround them, but because they are one of the best known examples of the wider ecstatic tradition, including the hassassins of the al-Da'wa al-Jadīda, through to the Maenad of greek myth and the Berserkers of the norse myth. There is are strong thematic links between these groups, at the heart of which lies pure awesome to be mined in the creation of a class.
Quixote
From various posts:
Warcane
Warcanist
Warcanum
Warcana
Gabala
Klingsor
Damas
Heron
Hexcalibur
I'll add:
(pn: Key-Eye)
Taken from the shout that martial artists use. I emphasize the the etymology of the word as it appears in wiki entry of Kiai:
"Kiai appears to be a compound of ki meaning mind, breath or spirit and ai, a stem of the verb awasu, "to unite"; therefore literally "concentrated or united spirit". However, Frederick John Lovret notes, "One should note that ai, the conjunctive stem of the verb au, does not mean "to join" in this case: when used in the second position of a compound word, ai becomes an emphatic marker. Kiai, therefore, should be translated as "spirit!", not "spirit-joined"
(That is not to say that everything searched/googled/found on the internet should be taken as correct, so any experts in the matter, please correct the statement.)
In any case, the first stab at the etymology appeals to me as a fighting arcanist.
As for its cultural background,the spelling and pronunciation do not appear to be overly difficult and to my eyes, do not appear as overly flavored by its origins.
Kensai passes the google image search test.
It is "regional" but so are other class names.
I have to say, other than some intangible reservations, that one fits pretty damn neatly. It is a word that does, in fact, mean what we want, even if the connotation of arcane magic is lacking.
One reason to avoid Kensai would be the potential inclusion of that word in a later "eastern" themed product... buuuuuuut... such a class would invariably be very similar to the class under discussion here. Hm.
Try the Witcher Evil Lincoln... too bad that it isn't useable IMO :D
"Witcher" sort of passes the Google Image Search Heuristic.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that if 100% of the images on page one are from the same source, the term probably isn't widely used enough to be in the spirit of the GIS test (which I pulled out of my ass).
You're right, the images are all appropriate to the concept though.
"Warcanist" passes, but it is not a real word and I really don't like it.
"Gabala" does not pass. Not quite sure what was mean by it either.
"Klingsor" does not pass.
"Hexcaliber" I would have bet this would pass, but it doesn't. Go figure. Kinda silly, too.
"Warlock" passes for wizards, but fails on swords.
"Dragoon" (my favorite) passes for weapons, but fails on wizards.
So if the image search test is worth anything (and I'm not asserting that it actually is) then "Magus" is actually the best term. Please feel free to reproduce my completely arbitrary methods, and disagree if you will.
Hexen?
Not enough swords or wizards, if you disqualify images from the id game. Plus, I'm pretty sure that's not a real word...
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Hexen?Not enough swords or wizards, if you disqualify images from the id game. Plus, I'm pretty sure that's not a real word...
Yeah Id software has used it which is why I did not suggest it before, however I have run into its use in a book or two and thought why not throw it out. It does in fact sound good and is esoteric enough.
"Hexer" passes the Google Image Search Heuristic (GISH).
Technically a word also (and hexen is a word in german, albeit a verb and therefore inappropriate as a person's title).
The only major point against Hexer is a total lack of mythological/historical context. However, I like it better than a great deal of the metaphoric suggestions — at least it's pretty clear what a hexer does!
I'm adding it to my short list.
Since the other four have drawbacks, I'm gonna keep rooting for Magus. Of course, this is all a matter of opinion.
"Armagus" passes the GISH, but I'm unable to ascertain whether it is a real word.
"Witcher" sort of passes the Google Image Search test.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that if 100% of the images on page one are from the same source, the term probably isn't widely used enough to be in the spirit of the GIS test (which I pulled out of my ass).
You're right, the images are all appropriate to the concept though.
...
The fun part is that the witcher is a made-up term because the English lacks the proper term to translate the original name from Polish.
Witchers are magically (by other withchers and druids or wizards) altered people that use basic magic and potons to augment their skills with weapons to fight monsters of the land.
The main problem with warrior/arcanist types is, that the concept lacks a widely known historical base. I think it's a result of the recent fantasy boom (by recent I mean early 20th century), but perhaps even Tolkien had some inspirations for his sword and (non-divine granted) spells wielding elves, which could be tracked down if someone could dig deep enough.
Been mulling this challenge awhile and a word finally came to mind (and my apologies if someone else suggested it first, as I haven't combed thru every single post).
Might be overly simplistic, or too many connotations for some folks(can't please everyone)...but how about "Avatar" ?
I'm adding it to my short list.
Magus
Warlock (previously used by 3.5e)
Dragoon (not close enough to real world meaning)
Hexer (no historical/mythological context)
Kensai (regional context may be undesired, or might not) Since the other four have drawbacks, I'm gonna keep rooting for Magus. Of course, this is all a matter of opinion.
"Armagus" passes the GISH, but I'm unable to ascertain whether it is a real word.
why not Mystic?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Echoing Charles Evans, I apologize if others have said this.
I think it's hard to pick a fitting one-word term without knowing what the actual elements of the class might be.
Even if Witch or Warlock were used (and I like them both) then you automatically have to battle the conceptions that a generally fantasy-versed readership already has when they hear those words.
Maybe we should look at the nature of the person who would be such a blend of sword and magic and not just the class features.
While we can argue whether a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/Eldritch Knight 10 is under powered versus the sum of its parts, stepping away from the mechanics of the game...this is a character who has managed to achieve ALMOST as much power as the greatest non-epic fighters and the most powerful of wizards in the same amount of "time" (meaning levels) as straight classes.
What is that person like?
I think that someone like that doesn't just fall into such an undertaking. They have to choose this pursuit, and the sum of their power is meant to represent the entire spectrum of possibility since most fantasy sets up sword and sorcery as opposites.
I would examine roots of words that involve purpose, destiny, greatness, and anything epic.
What about
-An Unbound
-A Limitless
-An Imminent
Thanks Qui-gon. Like it even better now that I've actually looked up it's roots on Merriam Webster =) .. with etymology "he crosses over", and def's #2b & 3...
Main Entry: av·a·tar
Pronunciation: \ˈa-və-ˌtär\
Function: noun
Etymology: Sanskrit avatāraḥ descent, from avatarati he descends, from ava- away + tarati he crosses over — more at ukase, through
Date: 1784
1 : the incarnation of a Hindu deity (as Vishnu)
2 a : an incarnation in human form b : an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person
3 : a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity
4 : an electronic image that represents and is manipulated by a computer user (as in a computer game)
"Unbound" has some real potential too. Speaks well to concept and maybe even their destiny.
Anyone want to have a stab at collating ALL the proffered names for newcomers to the thread?
Such a task would involve:
- Mindfulness to total data integrity : That means listing ALL the names, regardless if they are rules-correct, rules-incorrect, misspelled, silly, or whatever variation one might think to ask about. If it is in the thread, put it in the list. This is a task to display data not filtered by opinions or interpretations of the rules.
- Remove multiples : Remove multiple submissions of the same name. Bear in mind that variations of the same name are considered two separate things. (Witch/Wytch for example)
- Keep it within a spoiler button : Go Go BBCode-fu.
Avatar was a Green Ronin base class, kind of cross between sorcerer/druid/cleric.
Googly Moogly. 2 words, but it is soooo cool. :P
Swordcerer
Blademancer
Warmancer
Kommando
The Mighty Purveyor of the Smackdown
Warden (Shades of Dresden Files)
Warcane (Mix of warrior & arcane)
Oucher
Ouchomancer
Bada$$
Googly Moogly...
Great Googly Moogly...
The Grand Wazoo
Wazoo! That's it!
Google Wazoo...
Oh.
Maybe not.
"SAvant" can refer to both a sage-like character with knowledge, and to someone who simply has a strong mental/intellectual talent for something
Dustin Hoffman in 'Rain Man' is a savant in the area of math. there's several other known examples concerning music, color, memory, languages, supernumeraries, etc.
Warlock doesn't fail the sword test, because there is no sword test. it's a melee test. while 'athame' can get lumped in with dagger, it's actually a 'magical focus', ie. spellcasting using a device, although in this case, the PERSON is the device.
Warlocks were basically anyone who practiced magic, same as many witches could be, and they could very well be knights on horseback.
==Aelryinth
Googly Moogly...Great Googly Moogly...
The Grand Wazoo
Wazoo! That's it!
Google Wazoo...
Oh.
Maybe not.
Gazoo?
I must say that my favorite so far is Warder.
Warden I associate with prisons, not a fighter/mage.
There is already a base class called Warlock in a book that Pathfinder is "compatible" with. We don't need a second.
I have tried to come up with something new myself, but it has been pretty well covered already.
There are a whole lot of suggetions that I really don't like. Not knocking the those that put forth a suggestion. In a brainstorm session it is better to voice even a bad idea than to sit and say nothing. You never know, it might lead you to the final answer.
I can only hope that Pazio picks one I can live with.
Good reasoning, IMO, Eric. (Although, I still prefer warlock.)
I'd just like to know what all this is for. According to Vic Wertz what ever product this is for it is at least a year away. I am hoping it is for a new base class, but does that mean paizo intends to publish another APG next year? I hope we get a hint sometime soon.
Warlock doesn't fail the sword test, because there is no sword test. it's a melee test
I would not worry about it. Like Evil Lincoln said, that is his opinion. I don't believe searching google images for a Gish replacement is what Paizo has in mind anyway. Me personally, I am just trying to post at least one a name a day whilst leaving the critiquing --however one wants to pursue it-- alone.
Well, looks like they already picked something, but I like "athame."
Warder... actually fits, if Jim Butcher doesn't sue.
I admit, I haven't read "Changes" yet, but I do have to ask if you may have been referring to the term "Warde(N)"?
Warder... actually fits, if Jim Butcher doesn't sue.I admit, I haven't read "Changes" yet, but I do have to ask if you may have been referring to the term "Warde(N)"?
I agree. It would be Robert Jordan's estate that would be suing over the use of Warder.
A summary of the last 12 pages.
534 names for Gish. Apologies if I missed yours.
EDIT: As a challenge, see if you can guess one of them without opening the spoiler.