Let's Dish Gish


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I like Warlock and Archon, but I think I like Warlock best.

Liberty's Edge

Reading through this thread,....
I'd just like to, again, ask for an ignore feature.


James Jacobs wrote:
Especially when you look up the actual meaning of a lot of the legitimate suggestions and the definition of the word is obviously NOT a "spellcasting warrior." Templar is a great example; it's a cool name, but I'd rather use it to make up a class that's an actual religious knight type class than "waste" or "Use up" the name on something it's not.

Yeah, but there's a serious lack of any historical words that DO mean 'spellcasting warrior', damn lack of magic in the real world. :-/

But then, you guys know that or this thread wouldn't really be needed.


Maybe a few of these are already among the posts:

Theurgist

Incanter

Legerdemist

Spellbinder (hey -spellbind is a word!)

Warfarer

Magister

Maleficarist (has a certain ring to it) or Maleficar

Ritualist

Enochiast (use celestial language to empower weapons?)

B.


Is this going to be for some sort of base class, a PrC, or something Golarion-specific? The reason I ask is that if there is any relevant culture to which the class will be tied it might make it easier to come up with something.


Auxmaulous wrote:
Torinath wrote:
I did not read through all the suggestions, but how about Immortal. :P

Class names like that actually help make a DMs job much easier to figure who gets targeted with what.

- DM "So the evil Servant of Orchalorr the One-Eyed mutters some incantation and a sweeping column of bright orange-red cackling fire decends from the sky to strike...hmmm...

-[Now we go inside the DMs Head]-

There's Poul the Skirmisher, sneaking around over there by the pillar (waste), then there's Jacobs the Dumplingtosser and Blackleaf the Half-thief.... (looks at the Battle Mat)....(Sigh)

Joe the Diviner (Sigh)....hmmm... pass....

...oh wait I know - MAXIMUS the IMMORTAL and FINGLESON the HAMMER of the GODs!
-[/DMs head]-

"So the evil Servant of Orchalorr the One-Eyed mutters some incantation and a sweeping column of bright orange-red cackling fire decends from the sky to strike....."

You take a class name like that and you might as well paint a giant X on the front of your armor. Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.

Okay, okay. I have a couple more suggestions.

For fanboys: Dreadnaught or Vangaurd

For more of a warfare feel: Tactician or Dynamo

Or my favorite: "The Professional" Sure, those guys (points to the ivory tower) know a bit more than I do, but I get paid better :).


Heathansson wrote:

Reading through this thread,....

I'd just like to, again, ask for an ignore feature.

I really wish we'd stick to the subject at hand: making suggestions and following the criteria. I've even stopped myself from posting, "X sucks, Warlock is so much better because A, B, C..." because that's not what we were asked. I say, the more cooperative we are, the more we get to play.


Razor

Scarab Sages

many good names have been mentioned already but http://thesaurus.com/ helps a lot too.

Thanks for doing this!, it's a very noble cause ;)

Sovereign Court Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder

Epic Meepo wrote:


Arthame/athame - used as a metaphor, this word accurately describes a fighter/mage: a blade (more generally, weapon) that can channel magical energy. Though it is sufficiently obscure that I doubt it would gain much traction.

This is the best one of the bunch, IMO. Not silly. Not a commonly used name (Warlock for 4E, I'm looking at you). Not a swordmage, blademage, edgecaster, or any 2 words make one option.

Looking this up , one can see that athame/arthame is really a word that has been passed down through the years so much that the name itself has been "garbled".

From the entry, Paizo could choose from many alternatives:
artavo, artavus, arthana, artanus, arthany or arthame

My two cp.


Mage-at-arms.


Timitius wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:


Arthame/athame - used as a metaphor, this word accurately describes a fighter/mage: a blade (more generally, weapon) that can channel magical energy. Though it is sufficiently obscure that I doubt it would gain much traction.

This is the best one of the bunch, IMO. Not silly. Not a commonly used name (Warlock for 4E, I'm looking at you). Not a swordmage, blademage, edgecaster, or any 2 words make one option.

Looking this up , one can see that athame/arthame is really a word that has been passed down through the years so much that the name itself has been "garbled".

From the entry, Paizo could choose from many alternatives:
artavo, artavus, arthana, artanus, arthany or arthame

My two cp.

I agree on this. Arthame sounds good if Athame is to be reserved for the blade/weapon.


I happen to like "Dragoon".

Although it unambiguously refers to a kind of cavalry in real world history, that rank was often changing in function — it is still used for regiments in modern times.

wikipedia wrote:
The name is possibly derived from a type of firearm (called a dragon) carried by dragoons of the French Army. There is no distinction between the words dragon and dragoon in French, Portuguese, or Spanish.

What I like best about this is that the word sounds cool and fantasy-like, but the actual etymology of the word does not apply at all in Pathfinder (no firearms, rare firearms). Instead, a fantasy etymology suggests itself which is something few of the terms offered above can claim. It's a fighter mage. One needn't strain terribly hard to figure out why they would be called Dragoons.

Once applied, the term works really well. I get a hell of a mental image when envisioning a detachment of armored dragoons on the battlefield. They could perhaps get a few ride skills (and the ability to cast and ride reliably) as a nod to the namesake — but cavalry performs a crucial battlefield function anyway. For real warriors, it comes up.

Plus, it can be shortened to "Goon" which is almost as catchy as gish. I hate to say it, but that matters in this battle!

Anyway, it's a hard question.


I find Athame sets wrong with me, about like calling a class a cross as it is a religious item. I do like armiger however.


Can we please not use the names of other base classes from other companies please? Calling a fighter/mage a magister will just cause confusion among those of us who have read Arcana Unearthed/Evolved . I tend to prefer "Dualist" myself.


Hate Dragoon, reminds me of Final Fantasy, I love final fantasy, not this name though.

Athame and derivates seems reasonable.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
I find Athame sets wrong with me, about like calling a class a cross as it is a religious item. I do like armiger however.

I don't like it either. It's too close to a nonsense word, in that it doesn't really evoke a character for me (and I'm not even sure I could pronounce it).

Even real words with non-obvious pronunciation should probably be knocked out of the running. We'll never replacement "gish" unless the replacement is easy to drop in a sentence: "Dude I played my new ar-thame last night and he kicked ass"...


Xum wrote:
Hate Dragoon, reminds me of Final Fantasy, I love final fantasy, not this name though.

Really? I don't recall ever seeing it from those games, but then again I never played them very long.

"Dragoon" always makes me think of Napoleonic warfare for some reason, but only after I think of Panzer Dragoon Saga (phenomenal game). I guess both of those things have left a more positive impression than your FF experiences.

Anyway, it meets all three criteria and thensome.

  • Real military designation: at least as accurate as "paladin" folks.

  • Not a portmanteau.

  • Single word.

  • Evocative. Has a suggestible etymology.

  • Sounds cool. I would want to make one.

  • Can be truncated to a short, ugly word.


  • Xum wrote:
    Hate Dragoon, reminds me of Final Fantasy, I love final fantasy, not this name though.

    I dunno, Kain with a jump spell explains quite a bit. :P


    I like Dragoon, too, but it has more baggage with people than even Warlock.

    I'm working from the assumption that more people have played Final Fantasy games than have played D&D (which may not be true, but I suspect it is.)

    Dragoons are a class in Final Fantasy. Like Lilith said, Sort of a knight or fighter type of character, wielding Pole-arms and have the ability to Jump, avoiding attacks, then perform a massive attack from the air.

    All that said, baggage aside, Dragoon and Warlock would both be cool.


    Lilith wrote:
    Xum wrote:
    Hate Dragoon, reminds me of Final Fantasy, I love final fantasy, not this name though.
    I dunno, Kain with a jump spell explains quite a bit. :P

    Haham, yes it does... please don't use dragoon.... please, please....


    How about:

    Reaver
    Ravager


    Weaver

    The Exchange

    I do like
    Athame
    and
    Magister


    Dear God, Magister is used in tons of Wizard's products, stay clear of it.

    Liberty's Edge

    Despite having played (and loved) many of the final fantasy games that included a Dragoon, I can say I could see it being a pretty good "gish" name.

    Besides, Kain was awesome. Imagining him throwing a spell down somewhere during a fight just adds to his already insurmountable awesome.

    That said, Warlock is also pretty good (despite its pen-and-paper-related baggage).

    A few friends and I tried to see how extreme we could get the jump check on a character once, but the highest high-jump we could get was about 40' :'(
    (human 18 monk, 1 barb, 1 cleric [Travel] using a ki point on jumping with nothing but skill focus:acro, acrobatic and fleet for feats. Longstrider going, of course. +30 enhancement bonus to jump via item. Lots of dex.)


    FISHY

    There done! Next problem?

    Warlock seems popular and very reasonably priced...FREE!


    Heathansson wrote:

    Reading through this thread,....

    I'd just like to, again, ask for an ignore feature.

    Mr. Fishy seconds that. Some times Mr. Fishy says things that offend Mr. Fishy. Mr. Fishy would like the option to ignore himself.

    Shadow Lodge

    Chuck Noris.


    Hmm one word class that is not two words mashed together and is not a made up word? Challenging!

    One of the issues I foresee is that a lot of real names mean different things to different people. In this case, exposure to different RPGs and other games over one’s life flavor and weight words to mean different things. Me personally: ‘Warlock’ does it for me as I grew up playing Dragon Warriors and a warlock was the Warrior-Magician du jour (does anyone remember Utyama-no-Sugensiki/Icon the Ungodly?).

    But then, when I say ‘Warlock’ a thousand or so people hear ‘World of Warcraft Warlock’ or ‘4th Edition Warlock’, or some other variation. Because of this, I don’t know if using a ‘real’ name would be suitable if Paizo is looking to come up with something unique. Still, these are the parameters of the task and and I like a challenge :)

    One that sort of breaks away is 'Savant', primarily because of its definition and thus far, it gets my +1 vote. (But, when I hear ‘Savant’ I think of Dustin Hoffman in ‘Rain Man’. Go figure.)

    I'm not done yet. I am just going to have to think about it some more.

    Shadow Lodge

    Timitius wrote:
    Epic Meepo wrote:


    Arthame/athame - used as a metaphor, this word accurately describes a fighter/mage: a blade (more generally, weapon) that can channel magical energy. Though it is sufficiently obscure that I doubt it would gain much traction.

    This is the best one of the bunch, IMO. Not silly. Not a commonly used name (Warlock for 4E, I'm looking at you). Not a swordmage, blademage, edgecaster, or any 2 words make one option.

    Looking this up , one can see that athame/arthame is really a word that has been passed down through the years so much that the name itself has been "garbled".

    From the entry, Paizo could choose from many alternatives:
    artavo, artavus, arthana, artanus, arthany or arthame

    My two cp.

    As the dragon that suggested it first, I say +1 to you good sir, +1!

    Dark Archive

    Arcanare

    Magnae

    Magis

    Magister +1 (it's a real latin word, that'd be like copywriting "wizard" or "mage" though I believe.)

    See latin is your friend. I butchered it just like english does. }; )

    Or you could just call them a magic using "generalist", which is exactly what they are. My number one choice in characters.


    More interesting names:
    maugris
    maugis
    malagigi
    malagi

    I found these while looking up the origin of the word "paladin". I'm far from an historical expert, but apparently, these are variations of a name of one of the Twelve Peers (or paladins) of Charlemagne's court who, according to wiki, was a sorcerer raised by a fey. An "in" so-to-speak. It would be fun to elaborate, if someone has any insight into his story.

    I can see a take on one of these, or using them as a springboard for a new name.

    Hmm… malagigon… malagidon… myrmagidon… that one sounds kinda neat. A cross between malagi and myrmidon.

    EDIT:
    A few more
    samnian – OE; wv/t, meaning: to bring together, join, unite

    samod – OE; adv. meaning: simultaneously

    samodfaest – joined together

    RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

    Xum wrote:
    Dear God, Magister is used in tons of Wizard's products, stay clear of it.

    Wizard and cleric are used in a ton of 3rd party products. Nobody says to stay clear of them.

    MAGISTER is perfectly possible. It's judicial leanings give it an edge of martial discipline that fit with the theme.

    ATHAME is often described as a weapon used for making magical sacrifices. Still, it has blade + magic synergy.

    WARLOCK is possible, but has negative connotations as 'male witch', accurate or not. It could refer to anyone casting magic, but warlock does have gender bias.

    I propose WYRD - has a hard edge to it that brings to mind both magic and discipline.

    ANother would be ENRUNED - which sort of implies enchanting yourself as a weapon, which is basically what a warrior-mage is. "I AM MY BEST WEAPON!"

    PEER is possible...it implies superiority, education, skill, and has links to both magic and martial traditions.

    SAVANT is possible if you consider the class as required massive talent. A Savant is a natural at a skill, not just magic/fighting. I'd have to say no to this.

    DRAGOON historically refers to people who wore the Dragon Symbol of certain rulers. THe Purple Dragons of Cormyr are Dragoons. Don't really like it. Definitely not looking for something with FF derivation. Bad enough they stole the idea of Bahamut as a Dragon instead of a fish.

    No portmanteaus does make this tough.

    I think I like ENRUNED best!

    ==Aelryinth

    Sovereign Court

    I can't get this thread out of my head!

    So I'm trying to figure out a way to find a word, but I still think it needs to be some combination word. There isn't anything in our language that sums up a gish as far as I know.

    Then I remembered Neuromancer, derived from Necromancer. Out of all of the magic-user type names this is the only one that has a suffix like stem that can easily be blended with another word. The only other one is Thaumaturge... which could also be explored a bit more with it's prefix.

    Looking at Necromancer you get the details of the prefix from dictionary.com as:

    -mancy
    combining form meaning "divination by means of," from O.Fr. -mancie,  from L.L. -mantia , from Gk. manteia  "oracle, divination," from mantis  "seer, prophet, soothsayer," related to mania  "madness, frenzy"

    That'll work. The problem that I've found so far is to find some kind of prefix that works well. Ideally it ought to be two syllables, it just rolls off the tongue better that way, but most words so far that thematically work are one syllable, which leaves the constructed word a bit flat. Here are some options:

    swordmancer
    Sabermancer
    Sabremancer
    weaponmancer
    warriormancer
    battlemancer
    warmancer
    blademancer

    The trick is to find something that will mesh well with mancer. I'm not blown away by any of the above, but something might fit together well.

    Why this approach would work well overall is because, with just a slight amount of geekiness, if someone were to ask what kind of character you are playing and you said, say “battlemancer,” then the person would get the gist of it.


    Greys

    they are a grey area between spell and sword


    Gitch!

    What?


    Aelryinth wrote:


    PEER is possible...it implies superiority, education, skill, and has links to both magic and martial traditions.

    That's a good one.


    Seerward
    Seerwarden
    Warseer
    Wardseer

    Liberty's Edge

    anybody say "outrider?"

    Lantern Lodge

    Oooh.. "Sabermancer"!

    Good ol' Spell Thematics to have all of your spells look like weapons...

    I like! My two favs are "Alvar" and "Sabermancer" now.. Also plays towards the high-crit probabilities of the common threat weapons..

    There needs to be something to make it stick now...


    Timitius wrote:
    Epic Meepo wrote:


    Arthame/athame - used as a metaphor, this word accurately describes a fighter/mage: a blade (more generally, weapon) that can channel magical energy. Though it is sufficiently obscure that I doubt it would gain much traction.

    This is the best one of the bunch, IMO. Not silly. Not a commonly used name (Warlock for 4E, I'm looking at you). Not a swordmage, blademage, edgecaster, or any 2 words make one option.

    Looking this up , one can see that athame/arthame is really a word that has been passed down through the years so much that the name itself has been "garbled".

    From the entry, Paizo could choose from many alternatives:
    artavo, artavus, arthana, artanus, arthany or arthame

    My two cp.

    I agree that this is the best one so far, and not already nailed to some other concept. I'd kick it around and call it an 'arthame', pronounced plainly.


    Wyrding or Wyrdling

    Wyrd was the Norse concept of fate bound to men, and a warrior with the knowledge of the Wyrds was considered blessed with the battle-luck.

    I will note that a lot of the 'one word names' we associate with classes are actually centuries old portmanteaus.

    Berserker means "Bare skinned warrior". "Paladin" is "Companion to the King." and is a French loan word from Moorish Andalusia.


    Compound words, not portmanteaus, right?

    Liberty's Edge

    AdAstraGames wrote:

    Wyrding or Wyrdling

    Wyrd was the Norse concept of fate bound to men, and a warrior with the knowledge of the Wyrds was considered blessed with the battle-luck.

    I will note that a lot of the 'one word names' we associate with classes are actually centuries old portmanteaus.

    Berserker means "Bare skinned warrior". "Paladin" is "Companion to the King." and is a French loan word from Moorish Andalusia.

    Paladin comes down from Palatine, the latin name for guards of a Roman Emperor. It comes down from Charlemagne's Paladins. It comes down from latin directly into the french.

    Berserker actually means "Bear Shirt", from the cloaks they wore into combat.


    Okay, so nobody liked "sparkly sword-swingy guy".

    How 'bout:

    * fightmage
    * swordy spellflinger
    * magical battle-brawler

    :D

    Seriously, though, I really don't think there's a single word that accurately and succinctly describes a fighter/magic-user that doesn't require some extra explanation and/or isn't setting specific.

    Dark Archive

    It's really kinda hard not to use classes for name that already exists and use a single word I'll give ya that, but this are something fast that just came to my mind.

    1.- Spellknight

    2.- ArcKnight

    3.- Mageblade

    4.- Mystic

    5.- Warspell

    Well it's kinda hard tho I rather name a magicl item or new spell name or something lol that's way more easy. Exapmple

    1.- Deathbellow

    2.- Butcher's Joy (it's from a video game, but I like it ^^)

    3.- Cardinal Blast

    4.- Paralysis Pulse

    5.- Thunder Stampede

    Grand Lodge

    Aesir
    Vanir
    Vaettir

    Although Alvar is good.

    And I did always like spellsword...compound word and all.

    Liberty's Edge

    Excubitor -Tagmatic (professional) soldier in the Byzantine Army, also a kind of palace guard.

    Spatharii -More greek, just means swordsman.

    Lictor -Name for an early bodyguard in Rome, they carried the fasces (symbol of the republic) which is an axe bound in sticks so the haft is unbreakable. They needed to be strong men, but also served the magistrate.

    I like Magister as well, but maybe make it more stylized as Magistros or Magistrix.

    Lictor is probably my favorite.


    gotta say I like Warlock.

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