So I have been looking over the advanced player's guide thinking about a character to play in an evil kingmaker game. My last three characters have had pets, and as much as I want to try the summoner out, I don't think I have it in me to have a familiar/animal companion whatever at the moment.
I was looking over the alchemist class, and my first idea was the team player alchemist making smoke clouds to thwart archers, infusion to give nice buffs to the melee types, using elf as race and archery feats as backup.
Then I got to thinking about the spell list and other powers. Transformation actually raises your BAB increasing your deadly aim damage. I was looking at by level 20 dealing 16d6 + 7(24 int) +1 PBS +12 Deadly Aim with 6 ranged touch attacks per round, 3 at full BAB as a supernatural ability. The splash damage alone would be 36*6 with the ability to leave out allies. Does this seem a little overpowered to anyone else? Obviously it is limited times per day and takes most of your discoveries in potent bombs. Thoughts?
As a side note I would like to see a shot on the run class feature for the alchemist, since you can't combine the standard action bomb and the shot on the run feat.
Random thought. Has anyone used snatch arrows yet to throw bombs back at the alchemist?
Then I got to thinking about the spell list and other powers. Transformation actually raises your BAB increasing your deadly aim damage. I was looking at by level 20 dealing 16d6 + 7(24 int) +1 PBS +12 Deadly Aim with 6 ranged touch attacks per round, 3 at full BAB as a supernatural ability. The splash damage alone would be 36*6 with the ability to leave out allies. Does this seem a little overpowered to anyone else?
You can't use Deadly Aim with touch attacks, according to the feat.
Then I got to thinking about the spell list and other powers. Transformation actually raises your BAB increasing your deadly aim damage. I was looking at by level 20 dealing 16d6 + 7(24 int) +1 PBS +12 Deadly Aim with 6 ranged touch attacks per round, 3 at full BAB as a supernatural ability. The splash damage alone would be 36*6 with the ability to leave out allies. Does this seem a little overpowered to anyone else?You can't use Deadly Aim with touch attacks, according to the feat.
Ah You are correct. That was too broken to use anyways. I figured when I read the bombs acted like weapons all archery feats would be a no brainer.
Deadly Aim does not increase the damage from bombs. I tried that back in the playtesting :( Also you only get one bomb per iterative attack that your BAB allows. Spells like Haste don't increase that.
Point Blank Shot seemed to be ok in playtest and I'm sure they'll make a Paizo version of Grenadier.
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Deadly Aim does not increase the damage from bombs. I tried that back in the playtesting :( Also you only get one bomb per iterative attack that your BAB allows. Spells like Haste don't increase that.
Point Blank Shot seemed to be ok in playtest and I'm sure they'll make a Paizo version of Grenadier.
"Fast bombs: An alchemist with this discovery can quickly
create enough bombs to throw more than one in a singleround. The alchemist can prepare and throw additional
bombs as a full-round action if his base attack bonus is high
enough to grant him additional attacks. This functions just
like a full-attack with ranged weapon. An alchemist must be
at least 8th level before selecting this discovery."
A full attack includes bonus attacks from haste and rapid shot, possibly even two weapon fighting. I don't see anything in this discovery that states you wouldn't get those bonus attacks. "This functions just like a full attack with [a] ranged weapon."
The wording is slightly fuzzy, this was brought up in playtesting. I don't believe it was ever clarified but there was a very strong implication that you only get one extra bomb for each iterative attack granted by your BAB.
Haste gives you extra attacks, it does not cause your BAB to give you extra iterative attacks.
"Fast bombs: An alchemist with this discovery can quickly
create enough bombs to throw more than one in a single
round. The alchemist can prepare and throw additional
bombs as a full-round action if his base attack bonus is high
enough to grant him additional attacks. This functions just
like a full-attack with ranged weapon. An alchemist must be
at least 8th level before selecting this discovery."
Emphasis mine.
Does haste grant an extra attack to a full-attack with a ranged weapon?
If so, then I think Fast Bombs should as well.
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You're missing the point. It says that he can get extra attacks as a full round action if his base attack bonus is high enough to give him extra attacks. It does not say "throw as many bombs as you can attack". That would be a whole different story. Murky though it may be, it does specifically call out that you only get the attacks granted from a high BAB.
You're missing the point. It says that he can get extra attacks as a full round action if his base attack bonus is high enough to give him extra attacks. It does not say "throw as many bombs as you can attack". That would be a whole different story. Murky though it may be, it does specifically call out that you only get the attacks granted from a high BAB.
No. It specifically calls out that you can attack with bombs like you could full attack with a long bow.
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Anyone else notice the word "this" in this part:
The alchemist can prepare and throw additional
bombs as a full-round action if his base attack bonus is high
enough to grant him additional attacks. This functions just
like a full-attack with ranged weapon.
Unless I'm mistaken "this" as a noun refers to the previous "thing" discussed. This would mean that the previous sentence is being clarified by the second one. In other words, the sentence starting with "this" is the more accurate one in this case.
"Fast bombs: An alchemist with this discovery can quickly
create enough bombs to throw more than one in a single
round. The alchemist can prepare and throw additional
bombs as a full-round action if his base attack bonus is high
enough to grant him additional attacks.
Even with this discovery, a hasted alchemist with a BAB of +5 using TWF and rapid shot could only throw a single bomb. He would have three other attacks he could make, but they could not be bombs.
There is no text that states that he is limited to the number of attacks granted by his BAB, only that he needs multiple attacks from BAB to make multiple bombs.
This is sort of like drawing a weapon as while moving. Once your BAB is high enough (+1), you gain that ability. In that case, the rule specifically limits it to drawing one weapon (or two if you have TWF).
If the intent of this rule was to limit the bombs based on iterative attacks, the text should have been something like this:
"For each iterative attack granted by his BAB, the alchemist can prepare and throw an additional bomb as part of a full-round action."
This functions just
like a full-attack with ranged weapon. An alchemist must be
at least 8th level before selecting this discovery."Emphasis mine.
A dagger is a thrown weapon, which makes it a ranged weapon. A character with a BAB of +6/+1 using haste, TWF and rapid shot could attack by throwing daggers at +3/+3/+3/+3/-2. "Just like a full-attack with a ranged weapon" suggests that the alchemist should be able to do the same.
As written, there is nothing to prevent the alchemist from creating additional bombs and text that implies that he can. Balance may dictate that he can only create additional bombs for the iterative attacks, but I do not think there is support for that in the written rules.
Ironically, the BAB text is redundant anyway since you need eight levels of Alchemist to take it -- which is enough to give you a second iterative attack.
Ironically, the BAB text is redundant anyway since you need eight levels of Alchemist to take it -- which is enough to give you a second iterative attack.
I thought the exact same thing when I read it. Needless print and confusion.
Ironically, the BAB text is redundant anyway since you need eight levels of Alchemist to take it -- which is enough to give you a second iterative attack.I thought the exact same thing when I read it. Needless print and confusion.
One of the reasons I think it's there to specify that the amount of attacks BAB grant are how many you can make. Not that having a high enough BAB all of a sudden let's you TWF and Haste bombs.
Eh, it seems a moot point to me as I've yet to see any players use more than one bomb per round as they prefer accuracy when throwing to wasting bombs.
Well they're a touch attack so unless you're fighting a grig or something (which'll die to the splash damage anyways) odds are you won't miss.
It's already in the FAQ fellas! READ IT SOME TIME!
In short, you CAN use haste and TWF with bombs.
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It's already in the FAQ fellas! READ IT SOME TIME!
In short, you CAN use haste and TWF with bombs.
That's hilarious, I just assumed people would have checked.
New Paizo forums rule: Always check the FAQ before making a rules interpretation.
Random thought. Has anyone used snatch arrows yet to throw bombs back at the alchemist?
I would like to know if this has happened yet and what the reaction was...sounds like a classic situation. :)
-Windquake