Josh said in another thread about this module that there is no PA award because you are not a member of the Society until after completing it.
Remember, you get your PA from your faction, not the Society, and you do not have a faction either til after the end of the module, I think. I won't get to see it til Monday, when it is free to download the pdf.
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I need help!
Free RPG Day 2010 was my first intro to the Society and I loved it! However, I can't seemed to figure out how to confirm I played in it. Our GM gave me a GM Pathfinder Society # of 2391 and he gave me a Pathfinder Society # of 16392-1 but when I registered my character here at Paizo.com, I was give a Pathfinder Society # of 16413-1. Can anyone help me??
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I need help!
Free RPG Day 2010 was my first intro to the Society and I loved it! However, I can't seemed to figure out how to confirm I played in it. Our GM gave me a GM Pathfinder Society # of 2391 and he gave me a Pathfinder Society # of 16392-1 but when I registered my character here at Paizo.com, I was give a Pathfinder Society # of 16413-1. Can anyone help me??
I'm not certain what the first number is...
The second number is your Society ID number, the -1 indicates your first character. If you didn't already have a number prior to playing, the GM has assigned you one. There should have also been a confirmation code associated with your ID# (for example: YG345YB).Armed with that info, you should then visit the PFS Page, click the join Pathfinder Society link on the upper right navigation bar. Enter your confirmation and ID# on the left side. BAM! You're official!
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Regarding the new classes:Where are they from? There are a TON of Pathfinder books and I have not played since Alpha.
The New Iconics are the base classes that are going to appear in the Advanced Player's Guide, which will be released in August. If you go to "My downloads" at the top of your screen, on there will be a link to the beta test of the Advanced Player's Guide classes. The Iconics in this adventure were built using the beta rules.
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That is a bummer and less of a reason to try it out. I figured that the Pathfinders would be thrilled with the outcome of the players work and that would earn them their first PA at a minimum.
Josh, a suggestion for future Intro mods:
Although new players may not initially be aware of factions, neither were they at the conclusion of the Master of the Fallen Fortress unless the GM take the time to describe it.
A better method would be to have faction tasks within the adventure, which the players aren't initially aware of, but the GM notes which character accomplished each task, or which character took the most interest in each task, so that character (or characters) can be approached by a faction member during or after the adventure.
Example 1: after a fight, three characters immediately search bodies for loot, while one player investigates the muffled cries that drew them to the room in the first place, and discovers someone bound an gagged. After returning him to his family, a member of Andoran faction introduces herself and her faction's goals to the player.
Example 2: after a fight, players search the temple. GM describes a ceremonial dagger, something that could be a potion, and a rusty statue. The rogue immediately pockets the dagger, the wizard tries to identify the potion, and about to leave for the next encounter when one player asks about the statue? GM shrugs his shoulders "it looks like a desert warrior" Knowledge checks "not from these parts". Player picks it up anyway. Sometime later, or at the conclusion, a merchant approaches the character and enquires about a statue? Apparently it's the missing member of a set of historical significance to Osirion. He describes Osirion faction and their goals to the player.
In the Andoran example above, one player might have roleplayed the rescue "oh, how awful, how long did they have you tied up here? you must be hungry, let me help you ..." so he's probably be the character the Andoran later approaches. However, the other players still contributed to his freedom by fighting the cultists, picking the lock, etc.
Now players are free to ignore these encounters, and choose their own faction at the end of the game, and one of the players who ignored the faction maguffin during the adventure could overhear these conversations and take interest in the faction instead of the player approached, and that's fine too.
The point is, for new players who know little to nothing about factions, this is a quick easy way to introduce them to the factions, and has context to what they did during the adventure. You can award them their first faction point too if they accept. This wouldn't have been too difficult to have included in MotFF.
Another suggestion, a one-page PDF layout for each faction, similar layout to the pre-gen character sheets, would be a great hand-out for players at the end of an Intro mod, and give them something to consider after the session - reading about their new faction and choosing a faction trait.
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I'm going to be running this adventure at U-Con in a couple of weeks (first time). The suggestions from this thread are very helpful. I was just wondering if the ruling on no PA award has been changed? It seems to me that not awarding any PA in a players/characters first adventure is a poor way to start out. Not only does it put your character a little behind in the PA curve, it also is just bad PR for PFS.
I can easily justify one if not two PA awards for this adventure. Zero PA simply means you are unknown. At the end of this adventure you are no longer an unknown. When you join the Pathfinder Society, you are approached by one or more factions to help them out. When you join one of the factions, you've made a good impression with them and you are now known. One PA earned. As for a second PA, that's easy. If you successfully saved the bard, he just happened to be a member of the faction you joined so someone in your faction knows you.
Any updates or other helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
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I'm going to be running this adventure at U-Con in a couple of weeks (first time). The suggestions from this thread are very helpful. I was just wondering if the ruling on no PA award has been changed?
So far it's as written, no PA. I would go with #33 (because you can easily have a non-combat final encounter) or #45 (because it uses a lot of varied mechanics besides combat, but has a totally awesome BBG) for intro mods. Both feature 2 PA since they are Season 1 and can be newbie/sub-tier 1-2 awesome.
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<SNIP>This adventure must be played with a fresh, never-before-played, level 1. It's a lead-in to joining the Society,* which wouldn't make any sense if you were already a member of the Society ... </SNIP>Very nice.
* Emphasis mine.
No. It's not very nice. In fact, it's very unwise and poorly thought through.
There is currently no need for this approach to running Master of the Fallen Fortress as the shift to allowing XP from later PFS Sanctioned modules demonstrates that this sort of initial thinking was wrong-headed and poorly thought out from the get-go.
My advice: give the XP to any level 1 character that completes it, as well as two PA for successfully completing the module. The lack of faction missions does not change the PA awards (much) in Godsmouth Heresy, say, or First Steps. Apply the same thinking to this module and all will be well.
Moreover, it's an arbitrary and capricious ruling which was not communicated within the product itself. The official ruling on this via these forums, unfortunately, has lead to much confusion and ill will over the course of time.
That ill will has now spilled over and contributed to a thread on ENWorld about the horrors of OP (generally) which has done more to undermine the good work of organizers at Paizo and Venture-Captains and hard working GMs than just about anything I've ever read on that forum.
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That ill will has now spilled over and contributed to a thread on ENWorld about the horrors of OP (generally) which has done more to undermine the good work of organizers at Paizo and Venture-Captains and hard working GMs than just about anything I've ever read on that forum.
This seems a shocking, overly dramatic representation of what I just read, but maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning.
Some guy had some bad experiences, that sucks. I'm sure we all have horror stories we could trot out. That is hardly a crushing indictment of Organized Play in general, or Pathfinder Society specifically.
Obviously quality control is going to be a concern when you are working with people who have little to no accountability for what they are doing coupled with no real serious way to enforce such things beyond social contract in the first place.
Specific to MotFF, since we experience time in a linear forward fashion I'm not sure comparing it to release that came after it is entirely fair. It is fairly well generally accepted that things don't get retrofitted. I don't agree with that most of the time, but given the choice between having Mark Moreland work on getting new content out the door, or retrofitting the sins of the past (and it pretty much is literally that choice, ATM even more so), well...sir, I live in the future.
*shrug*
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Steve,
I am sorry to hear this. i read some of the thread that Steele wind provided, and the poster was on a rant.
To offer a different point of view, for the six or seven months I was living in the Raleigh Durham area last year and I played and GMed in the PFS organized play that Steve ran. Even with the occasional bump in the road, ( I remember a certain player reacting very poorly to having his wizard eaten by a giant centipede which I think really was his own fault not the GM's), I found the players there to be very welcoming friendly and helpful. And I found the GMs did their best for the most part to put together a fun evening for the players.
Game Theory, where we played, was one of the best run, and most welcoming gaming stores I have seen in a long while.
I am now living in Vermont and running my own little PFS group at my local gaming store in Keene NH called Toy City. We run a game every Saturday night.
When I do get back down to Raleigh, I do my best to catch a couple of games at Game Theory.
So in short I think Steves GM's do an excellent job, and I think Game Theory is a great store in which to game.
I hope all is going well Steve,
Myles
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Steve,
I am sorry to hear this. i read some of the thread that Steel Wind provided, and the poster was on a rant.
Yes he was. Regrettably, a *lot* of them were. And PFS got tarred with the same brush, too.
When it comes to bad PR, rationality has never been a requirement; sadly, it is entirely optional. You can dismiss it out of hand if you like -- but I certainly don't. It's damaging PR, plain and simple.
I don't mean to link MotFF in any serious causality sense to the issue, but it appears to have been an unpleasant contributor to the player's experience. Moreover, unlike the rest of the complaints that poster and others had about their unpleasant OP experiences, we don't need a Delorean to go back in time to stop this one from happening.
More to the point, the MotFF issue was an entirely foreseeable and avoidable outcome. When I read a story like this, I don't confine myself to thinking about that particular player's reaction. Instead, I wonder: how many other times has the same thing happened? I don't much like the answer to that musing very much.
Seeing as the original problem with respect to MotFF was the result of a ruling by an OP Manager's post here -- it seems to me that it can be "un-ruled on" (and thereby undone) by a similar post.
Revise a Chronicle sheet to add a PA award, click "save as", replace the page in the product's existing .pdf on the system and you are *done*.
MotFF is not like older stand-alone modules in the Pathfinder module line. That is because it was a free product, expressly released as being PFS compatible and it continues to be a free download.
Accordingly, it continues to be widely read and played in a way that many older modules are not -- and never will be.
That's not an effect confined to the past; that ripple predictably carries over to the present -- and into the future, too.
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Steel Wind,
It was DyKstrav’s post that stuck in my craw. Perhaps it was because he was talking about some people I know personally. Some of these same people were very nice, friendly, and hospitable to me when I was struggling to recover from an illness and alone in a town where I didn’t know anyone.
Well I guess with the anonymity of the Internet, people will say things perhaps they wouldn’t normally say. Perhaps.
Elyas
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Revise a Chronicle sheet to add a PA award, click "save as", replace the page in the product's existing .pdf on the system and you are *done*.
MotFF is not like older stand-alone modules in the Pathfinder module line. That is because it was a free product, expressly released as being PFS compatible and it continues to be a free download.
Accordingly, it continues to be widely read and played in a way that many older modules are not -- and never will be.
I haven't played or DMed this adventure yet, but I've considered it, mostly for the sake it was a free download.
I don't think it would be a bad idea to give this module a PA award of 1, similar to We Be Goblins. You wouldn't even have to edit the PDF, just make a an official comment stating that players can earn one PA. It may be a deterrent for some players who don't want to start a new PC off with a 0 PA adventure.
Also, I don't see why this adventure couldn't be opened up to any PC of lvl 1 or 2. It's jarring for new players to learn than, even though this is only their 2nd or 3rd PFS game, they have to make another new PC because they can't play their existing lvl 1 PC in this.
Fixing both these aspects would help encourage more play and reduce problems that were brought up that may drive away new players.
Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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I actually like this mod! I gave it the full Hirst Arts treatment for our local gaming con and ran it a couple times a day throughout and even got a few recruits to PFS. I have run it in the more usual 2D at local gaming groups and shops. However with the new three part intro mods poor old MoTFF is on the wrong end of an evolutionary branch. As it is an either or choice MoTFF is looking pretty poor value these days compare to In Service to Lore et al. There are two things that I think would make it more relevant.
1) Allow PA awards, if every year zero mod can get an extra one this can too.
2) Link it to the new intros so that the PCs that join via MoTFF get their first taste of the Society via the 3 parter. I don't think allowing 2nd level PCs play in part 3 would cause the world to end.
I don't feel that the minor changes to the text involved would suck resources away from other work. It would revive the fortunes of a mod that deserves it.
W
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However with the new three part intro mods poor old MoTFF is on the wrong end of an evolutionary branch. As it is an either or choice MoTFF is looking pretty poor value these days compare to In Service to Lore et al.
Not in my opinion - I'll be running MotFF at JimCon in November instead of First Steps, exactly because it is a single-session investment. A new player can play Fallen Fortress, and then decide if they want to play another Tier 1-5 game on the spur of the moment. First Steps are great for local groups to intro new characters to PFS, where they have more control and (likely) more investment in getting through all three. And that character is tied up until you DO play all three, because once you have a faction (required for every other mod), you can't go back to First Steps. The benefit of meeting all the faction leaders is lost if you don't play them all.
Fallen Fortress gives XP, lets the Pathfinder choose a faction, and sends them on their way in their new career. For consistancy, it should give the 1 PP normally delivered for completing the main mission, since PP are not exclusively the domain of factions anymore. And since there's nothing in the module that says otherwise, most GMs will run it that way anyway.
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And that character is tied up until you DO play all three, because once you have a faction (required for every other mod), you can't go back to First Steps.
This actually is not true. In an ideal world you would play a new character through all 3 and then pick your faction. However, we play in a less than ideal world, and stuff happens. If you are level 1 and haven't already played some part of First Steps you are legal to play it.
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And that character is tied up until you DO play all three, because once you have a faction (required for every other mod), you can't go back to First Steps.This actually is not true. In an ideal world you would play a new character through all 3 and then pick your faction. However, we play in a less than ideal world, and stuff happens. If you are level 1 and haven't already played some part of First Steps you are legal to play it.
Thanks for the clarification, Mark!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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This actually is not true. In an ideal world you would play a new character through all 3 and then pick your faction. However, we play in a less than ideal world, and stuff happens. If you are level 1 and haven't already played some part of First Steps you are legal to play it.
Hi, Mark. My thanks for taking the time to reply here.
My understanding is different than yours. At least at Gen Con, the policy seemed to be: once you play any other adventure -- earning fame from your faction -- you can't go back and play any of the First Steps scenarios.
(I'm not sure how it would work to declare yourself first in service to the Lantern Lodge, say, and then turn around and get fame for passing a message for the Taldor faction leader.)
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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However with the new three part intro mods poor old MoTFF is on the wrong end of an evolutionary branch. As it is an either or choice MoTFF is looking pretty poor value these days compare to In Service to Lore et al.Not in my opinion - I'll be running MotFF at JimCon in November instead of First Steps, exactly because it is a single-session investment. A new player can play Fallen Fortress, and then decide if they want to play another Tier 1-5 game on the spur of the moment. First Steps are great for local groups to intro new characters to PFS, where they have more control and (likely) more investment in getting through all three. And that character is tied up until you DO play all three, because once you have a faction (required for every other mod), you can't go back to First Steps. The benefit of meeting all the faction leaders is lost if you don't play them all.
Fallen Fortress gives XP, lets the Pathfinder choose a faction, and sends them on their way in their new career. For consistancy, it should give the 1 PP normally delivered for completing the main mission, since PP are not exclusively the domain of factions anymore. And since there's nothing in the module that says otherwise, most GMs will run it that way anyway.
Well we agree that there should be some fame attached for completing MoTFF! I appreciate that it is a single session which allows it to fit where 3 sessions won't. Thing is there is no shortage of excellent single session scenarios, all of which allow the pathfinder to choose a faction and sends them on their way. The only difference is that they choose the faction up front and hopefully get the 2 fame.
What is MoTFF's USP? That it is plotted so that PCs get pointed in the direction of the Society at the end of the mod and their players are excused from having to sort out factions and traits for one session.
One thing that First Steps is great for is actually introducing players and PCs to the PFS in an enjoyable organic fashion. MoTFF invites the GM to give a bit of info via grateful NPC but there is no comparison in how the new series immerses the players in the society.
I would vote for MoTFF to act as a stand alone starter as is but with some PA. I would also like the option that special dispensation could be given for characters that have only played MoTFF to then play First Steps. If a player just wants to get stuck into to normal PFS play after MoTFF then great but if they want to continue the joining experience it has always struck me that First Steps would be a great sequel.
W
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My understanding is different than yours.
Chris, until a few days ago my understanding was basically the same as yours. I asked privately for a clarification of the various 'strange cases' which I felt were likely to occur and was clarified into my current understanding. There can be some awkward moments in a situation like you've described, but by doing a favor for Taldor, you may yet be spreading the wisdom of the Lantern Lodge ;)
Also, unfactioned PCs may spend 2 PP for a Wand of CLW.
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I'm actually planning on running this tonight at Redmond Games and Gizmos for existing PFS characters since I ended up running the adventure I planned to run Saturday (Shadows Last Stand pt 1) last night.
I would run it for new characters but at least half the table that was there last night plans on showing up tonight as well. Since its the only other adventure I have ready I figure I'll just have to roll with it.
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I'm actually planning on running this tonight at Redmond Games and Gizmos for existing PFS characters since I ended up running the adventure I planned to run Saturday (Shadows Last Stand pt 1) last night.
I would run it for new characters but at least half the table that was there last night plans on showing up tonight as well. Since its the only other adventure I have ready I figure I'll just have to roll with it.
If you are talking about existing PFS characters they cannot play MotFF. It has to be Chronicle #1. Or are you talking about the First Steps scenarios?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Masika,
You are welcome to do that in a home campaign, but Master of the Fallen Fortress doesn't offer any Fame in PFA OP. Please don't decide to rewrite the campaign rules like that.
If I were to audit those characters' sheets and see a MotFF with Fame, I would simply reject the Chronicle entirely (no gold, no experience) because attaching Fame to the Chronicle invalidates it. That has a chance to really mes with the PCs, if they spent that nonexistent prestige or gold, or if they ended up playing a Tier 3-7 scenario with only 5 experience.
Having said all that, I myself wish MotFF offered at least one point of Fame.
